136 réponses à ce sujet

[xylrocks]

 I think I might have expected too much from the company that brought me Mass Effect and Neverwinter Nights. Those games that released with such polish to character balances and the intricacies of each class. After playing DA:O for over 40hrs so far I have found out:
1) The difficulty scale is non-existent: One minute I am rocking the joint, the next slaughtered. I know this has been a consistent problem throughout...my question is why?? Mass Effect had no such bad scaling of difficulty (I have beat it on all difficulties and have multiple characters that I did it with). Why is this broken BioWare? Why?
2) In order for you to succeed without sheer luck you need to have a nuking mage in your party. If I want to roll with an archer, healz, tank and rogue or 2h warrior I am out of luck, becuase one minute I am doing fine than the system spawns 14 archers on me with two yellow shrieks. And of course my archer can't kill one of them by herself (yes by herself, she dies when she faces another archer by herself). Without an AOE mage I am screwed.
3) In order to play on any sort of difficulty I have to roll one of three archetypes: Tank with shield, elemental mage, or dual wield rogue. Why? because a hexing mage falls the same issue my archer does: she sucks, because archers don't do damage, and 2h warriors miss ALL THE TIME (roughly 1/2...the weapon is so big it would be nigh impossible to miss anything!)(even with 48 strength @ lvl 14 and 30 dex)

In conclusion I expected more polish on the character classes in a BioWare game. Maybe it is because they were bought out by such a company like EA that pushes out crap on a daily basis, or they just had too many games on their plate (ME2, DA:O, TOR-The Old Republic)
Or maybe I am just doing something horribly wrong which can be true too...oh I can just respec my party and....oh....
So BioWare please update this game FAST. I would enjoy rolling every single class combination as soon as possible, but when all I can do is sit in the shadow of a mage and plink away with my 2h axe or my mighty bow and arrow, I don't want to play (BTW I have three friends who are playing an elemenatl mage, and dual weapon rogue/warrior and they are doing fine, I mean earthquake>cone of ice>fireball clears 12 archers pretty fast. But it takes 6 min for me to kill them without a nuke mage...wtf....)

[Stronghold II]

I do not agree.



You are doing something horribly wrong.

[astro_88]

i dont think its necessary for you to have an AoE mage in every encounter most of the time the AoE im being hit with by my party npc is on my PC or another person in my party lol

[lordhugorune]

Cool story, bro.





(always wanted to say that )

[natetk]

LOL another I hate mage thread. We get it, you can't run in there and just hack things mindlessly, so mages are overpowered.

Modifié par natetk, 14 novembre 2009 - 01:36 .

[jadedjim]

you make your point very well. the difficulty is a bit screwy yes. but overall,that's not stopping me from loving this here game.

[xylrocks]

Also...Morrigan, Lelina, etc have talents in other things before you get them....things i dont even want. I kept Morrigan as a hexer and wound up replacing her with Wynne and keeping the horrid Leliana because she could pick locks (the only only reason I kept her in my party).

I think I might be doing something wrong and thats fine. But I have just heard of so many character balancing problems on this game I feel like I am playing World of Warcraft again. I just wanted something that competed with the polish in the characters like Mass Effect (PC release anyhow, the 360 version had too many bugs).

Also I am ranting because I do not want to have to reroll (I know. . .WoW term) to fully experience everything...however Arcane Warrior does sound enticing

[xylrocks]

Also...Morrigan, Lelina, etc have talents in other things before you get them....things i dont even want. I kept Morrigan as a hexer and wound up replacing her with Wynne and keeping the horrid Leliana because she could pick locks (the only only reason I kept her in my party).

I think I might be doing something wrong and thats fine. But I have just heard of so many character balancing problems on this game I feel like I am playing World of Warcraft again. I just wanted something that competed with the polish in the characters like Mass Effect (PC release anyhow, the 360 version had too many bugs).

Also I am ranting because I do not want to have to reroll (I know. . .WoW term) to fully experience everything...however Arcane Warrior does sound enticing

[xylrocks]

lol know i see why others have replied multiple times

[xylrocks]

The other problem with me is this game is a layover until Mass Effect 2...

[Stronghold II]

xylrocks wrote...

Also...Morrigan, Lelina, etc have talents in other things before you get them....things i dont even want. I kept Morrigan as a hexer and wound up replacing her with Wynne and keeping the horrid Leliana because she could pick locks (the only only reason I kept her in my party).
I think I might be doing something wrong and thats fine. But I have just heard of so many character balancing problems on this game I feel like I am playing World of Warcraft again. I just wanted something that competed with the polish in the characters like Mass Effect (PC release anyhow, the 360 version had too many bugs).
Also I am ranting because I do not want to have to reroll (I know. . .WoW term) to fully experience everything...however Arcane Warrior does sound enticing

 See that's the thing.....this is not a MMO, this is a single player RPG and "balance" does not matter. There are actually vast differences in the classes here unlike a MMO where everyone thinks that they have to be on equal ground.

 Find the party members that you like, and exploit their strengths.

 Every party combination in this game can be used to great effect. Learn the skills and learn some tactics. I hope that didn't sound mean, but this is no narmal hack and slash game.

Modifié par Stronghold II, 14 novembre 2009 - 01:43 .

[Edner132435]

I disagree with every one of your points. All invalid for me, so basically you want them to make a game exactly right for only you?

[lordhugorune]

One on one, in terms of what they can do, mages are the most powerful character class in the game. I don't think anyone can seriously dispute that.

But rogues and warriors are important, and have their own strengths. I'm firmly of the belief that the most effective way of playing this game really needs at least one of each character class. You're simply not going to survive certain encounters without an armoured warrior, and while you *can* arguably live without rogues, you'll miss out on a lot of extra money doing that.

[Skemte]

lordhugorune wrote...

One on one, in terms of what they can do, mages are the most powerful character class in the game. I don't think anyone can seriously dispute that.
But rogues and warriors are important, and have their own strengths. I'm firmly of the belief that the most effective way of playing this game really needs at least one of each character class. You're simply not going to survive certain encounters without an armoured warrior, and while you *can* arguably live without rogues, you'll miss out on a lot of extra money doing that.

...   Yeah agree.. Oh wait, arcane warriors can destroy anything..

[xylrocks]

To Stronghold:

Balance doesn't matter? I paid 50 buks (Didn't have enough money at the time for Steam's 65 dollar Ultimate amazing edition) for a game where only two or three character/class combinations are actually useful? Hmm....Shifter sucks in this game, but I think it would be an awesome Specialization if it was done right. 50 buks for 1/4 of the character classes? I don't think so. They need to tweak a few things. (AKA balance the classes) Its not a matter of MMO balancing. I just want to play every class variation without massive frustration.



Also a fifth party member would solve many of these problems.

I originally wanted this to not be D&D...now I wish it was lol.

[xylrocks]

To Edner:

No that would be stupid. I just expected a mage to not rock to such an insane degree that my entire gaming experience would be much different with or without one. (except Wynne...o thank God for the Spirit Healer)

[Stronghold II]

xylrocks wrote...

To Stronghold:
Balance doesn't matter? I paid 50 buks (Didn't have enough money at the time for Steam's 65 dollar Ultimate amazing edition) for a game where only two or three character/class combinations are actually useful? Hmm....Shifter sucks in this game, but I think it would be an awesome Specialization if it was done right. 50 buks for 1/4 of the character classes? I don't think so. They need to tweak a few things. (AKA balance the classes) Its not a matter of MMO balancing. I just want to play every class variation without massive frustration.

Also a fifth party member would solve many of these problems.
I originally wanted this to not be D&D...now I wish it was lol.

 I dont think balancing matters at all.

 You should play Baldur's Gate, the combat and classes are more like that game than any recent Bioware title. In BG you had a wide range of powers that made some toons seem weak while others seemed overpowered.

 All I am saying is, with proper tactics, every class in DA can be useful. Sure I might not have all those pretty colors on my screen when I make Morrigan sit it out, but I can kill just as fast without her.

 I dunno, maybe I am just not as picky.........

[Skemte]

Stronghold II wrote...

xylrocks wrote...

Also...Morrigan, Lelina, etc have talents in other things before you get them....things i dont even want. I kept Morrigan as a hexer and wound up replacing her with Wynne and keeping the horrid Leliana because she could pick locks (the only only reason I kept her in my party).
I think I might be doing something wrong and thats fine. But I have just heard of so many character balancing problems on this game I feel like I am playing World of Warcraft again. I just wanted something that competed with the polish in the characters like Mass Effect (PC release anyhow, the 360 version had too many bugs).
Also I am ranting because I do not want to have to reroll (I know. . .WoW term) to fully experience everything...however Arcane Warrior does sound enticing

 See that's the thing.....this is not a MMO, this is a single player RPG and "balance" does not matter. There are actually vast differences in the classes here unlike a MMO where everyone thinks that they have to be on equal ground.

 Find the party members that you like, and exploit their strengths.

 Every party combination in this game can be used to great effect. Learn the skills and learn some tactics. I hope that didn't sound mean, but this is no narmal hack and slash game.

.. Where in the hell do these people keep coming up with these balance only be MMO related?  Clearly there are problems, for instance in baldur's Gate 2 there were some classes that just flat out SUCKED that you should never play (even if you wanted to) because you will be highly ineffective..  The fact that there are 3 core classes, and one is clearly head and shoulers over the others is unforgivable.. Especially when you don't even need to consider about over all power but the fact they can go deep in ALL trees with out worry of weakening them selves unlike a rogue or a warrior.. No one is asking for complete balance, but clearly the mage is WAY ahead of the other two classes.. Maybe if they were limited of choosing from one of the spell trees like rogue and warrior are pretty much forced to do.. Not to mentiont here are ONLY 2 spell caster npc's in the game.. So if your a warrior or rogue, you are going to have to pick one or both of them in nearly every play through to make some encounters manageable.. Gulping down potions every second is not what I would consider fun or manageable but more of a "challenge run" rather than a legitimate play through with the game.

[lordhugorune]

In perspective, when by far the largest complaint on forums is that one character class in a single-player game is more powerful than the other two, you know that the release has been outstandingly good

Modifié par lordhugorune, 14 novembre 2009 - 02:05 .

[FaintofHearts]

Can we create a single thread where everyone who hates this game can go to complain? Nobody cares why you do not like the game. It's a game - if you don't enjoy it go play something else. It's really pretty simple...why waste your time complaing?

[Skemte]

Stronghold II wrote...

xylrocks wrote...

To Stronghold:
Balance doesn't matter? I paid 50 buks (Didn't have enough money at the time for Steam's 65 dollar Ultimate amazing edition) for a game where only two or three character/class combinations are actually useful? Hmm....Shifter sucks in this game, but I think it would be an awesome Specialization if it was done right. 50 buks for 1/4 of the character classes? I don't think so. They need to tweak a few things. (AKA balance the classes) Its not a matter of MMO balancing. I just want to play every class variation without massive frustration.

Also a fifth party member would solve many of these problems.
I originally wanted this to not be D&D...now I wish it was lol.

 I dont think balancing matters at all.

 You should play Baldur's Gate, the combat and classes are more like that game than any recent Bioware title. In BG you had a wide range of powers that made some toons seem weak while others seemed overpowered.

 All I am saying is, with proper tactics, every class in DA can be useful. Sure I might not have all those pretty colors on my screen when I make Morrigan sit it out, but I can kill just as fast without her.

 I dunno, maybe I am just not as picky.........

  Are you kidding me? Some of the classes in Baldur's Gate 2 were absoltuely AWFUL..  Shape shifter druid?  Yeah thats so fun intill you realize that towards the end of the game you can't hit anything because your weapon is only like a +2..  But than again there were some GOOD classes that did well of around a dozen.. This one we have 3 Core classes, with one class having a clear advantage in just not in doing the most damage, having the best debuffs, best aoes, being the only class that really can heal, and having no weapon specialization to worry about.. As warrior you have to choose archer, 2hander, dual wield etc etc.. You can not mix and match to a great affect, unlike the mage which can choose what ever tree they want with out any disadvantages..

[ITSSEXYTIME]

xylrocks wrote...
1) The difficulty scale is non-existent: One minute I am rocking the joint, the next slaughtered. I know this has been a consistent problem throughout...my question is why?? Mass Effect had no such bad scaling of difficulty (I have beat it on all difficulties and have multiple characters that I did it with). Why is this broken BioWare? Why?

I liked the difficulty.  It rewards effective tactics and punishes poor ones, making the game truly about how you approach a situation and not about what gear you have.  Even characters with great gear are not invincible.

xylrocks wrote...
2) In order for you to succeed without sheer luck you need to have a nuking mage in your party. If I want to roll with an archer, healz, tank and rogue or 2h warrior I am out of luck, becuase one minute I am doing fine than the system spawns 14 archers on me with two yellow shrieks. And of course my archer can't kill one of them by herself (yes by herself, she dies when she faces another archer by herself). Without an AOE mage I am screwed.

Mages do make the game easier, but not imposslbe.  Also you're using your archers wrong oddly enough, they're much better used to wittle down the targets of your melee party members. (Using armour weakening shots or stuns can help a lot) and generally pick off low HP guys to prevent overkilling.  

xylrocks wrote...
3) In order to play on any sort of difficulty I have to roll one of three archetypes: Tank with shield, elemental mage, or dual wield rogue. Why? because a hexing mage falls the same issue my archer does: she sucks, because archers don't do damage, and 2h warriors miss ALL THE TIME (roughly 1/2...the weapon is so big it would be nigh impossible to miss anything!)(even with 48 strength @ lvl 14 and 30 dex)

I'll admit I have yet to play a 2handed warrior on my main character but I've finished the game with a Dual wielding Rogue, finished half with a warrior sword/board and did the first few hours with a warrior archer.  The archer was a lot of fun to play, the only reason I stopped was because I tried to make him into a relentless **** and realized I hate playing these kinds of games like that.  You just have to learn the different archery abilities.

Overall, you need to have your party members complement your character.  Yes, Mages can be downright broken in some respects and make the game much, much easier.  However, the game is perfectly possible to complete with any class on normal.  On hard mode you can beat it with any class as your main but you're gonna need a healing mage for some battles unless you really invest in herbalism.

Also: If you're so upset with how Bioware has made the game don't sit on your ass about it: Learn to use the toolset and balance the game to your liking.  

[Stronghold II]

Skemte wrote...

Stronghold II wrote...

xylrocks wrote...

Also...Morrigan, Lelina, etc have talents in other things before you get them....things i dont even want. I kept Morrigan as a hexer and wound up replacing her with Wynne and keeping the horrid Leliana because she could pick locks (the only only reason I kept her in my party).
I think I might be doing something wrong and thats fine. But I have just heard of so many character balancing problems on this game I feel like I am playing World of Warcraft again. I just wanted something that competed with the polish in the characters like Mass Effect (PC release anyhow, the 360 version had too many bugs).
Also I am ranting because I do not want to have to reroll (I know. . .WoW term) to fully experience everything...however Arcane Warrior does sound enticing

 See that's the thing.....this is not a MMO, this is a single player RPG and "balance" does not matter. There are actually vast differences in the classes here unlike a MMO where everyone thinks that they have to be on equal ground.

 Find the party members that you like, and exploit their strengths.

 Every party combination in this game can be used to great effect. Learn the skills and learn some tactics. I hope that didn't sound mean, but this is no narmal hack and slash game.

.. Where in the hell do these people keep coming up with these balance only be MMO related?  Clearly there are problems, for instance in baldur's Gate 2 there were some classes that just flat out SUCKED that you should never play (even if you wanted to) because you will be highly ineffective..  The fact that there are 3 core classes, and one is clearly head and shoulers over the others is unforgivable.. Especially when you don't even need to consider about over all power but the fact they can go deep in ALL trees with out worry of weakening them selves unlike a rogue or a warrior.. No one is asking for complete balance, but clearly the mage is WAY ahead of the other two classes.. Maybe if they were limited of choosing from one of the spell trees like rogue and warrior are pretty much forced to do.. Not to mentiont here are ONLY 2 spell caster npc's in the game.. So if your a warrior or rogue, you are going to have to pick one or both of them in nearly every play through to make some encounters manageable.. Gulping down potions every second is not what I would consider fun or manageable but more of a "challenge run" rather than a legitimate play through with the game.

 If they were all "balanced" then every battle would be exactly the same regardless of party make-up.

 The great thing about single player games is that the devs can keep things different between classes without having to nerf something due to a bunch of cry babies.

 You say mages rock the wrold, but my tank build completely owns every other class I have come across. I have had my tank survive an ambush and fight off the last 7 or 8 bad guys competely on my own due to everyone else being dead.

 How is a mage overpowered when a tank can solo pretty much the entire ambush while the mage is taking a dirt nap?

 It's just silly.

[Unbroken Lineage]

Each class is capable of playing the crowd control role. But someone has to do it. If you don't spec anyone in your party for crowd control, it's your fault, not BioWare's.

[darqueraven]

natetk wrote...

LOL another I hate mage thread. We get it, you can't run in there and just hack things mindlessly, so mages are overpowered.

This is NOT a "I hate mages thread"!
If you had taken the time to read and understand what the poster was talking about and not just skim over it. You would find that he was saying that GAME BALANCE was his issue. That without a mage in the party you can not survive.
He was also talking about that he feels that EA/BIOWARE did not work well enough on the game, and perhaps cranked it out too fast. And for the price he would have expected a better balanced gaming system. Since Bioware also makes NeverWinter Nights and Mass Effect.

Next time read the post.