136 réponses à ce sujet

[macayle]

astro_88 wrote...

i dont think its necessary for you to have an AoE mage in every encounter most of the time the AoE im being hit with by my party npc is on my PC or another person in my party lol

God how true  one encouter I had a npc suppose to be helpign the party dam friendly fire kept killing us  till i worked it out.

I do belive this is the same problem the OP is having  you have to actually work through the problems here and use good tactics for each type of encounter.  Such as if faced with multipel archers get into their melee range they are much easier to fight when you are fighting at your str and their weakness

[Hurrrr]

Er. I just finished the game, thats at a guess 40+ hours, quite liked it to be honest. BUT the OP is totally right, this is NOT balanced. Things in most RPGs get steadily harder, this has spikes and drops everywhere almost at random 0.o



And anyone not running with a mage in their party is an absolute nonce, I mean come on, its ESSENTIAL. I dont like difficulty curve being so silly, but class balance is a moot point, its a SP rpg, Baldurs Gate 2 had a frighteningly poor class balance as well.

[Shadow_Viper]

Shadow_Viper wrote...

IFL2P

QFE.

[golfnerd]

Skemte wrote...

Stronghold II wrote...

xylrocks wrote...

Also...Morrigan, Lelina, etc have talents in other things before you get them....things i dont even want. I kept Morrigan as a hexer and wound up replacing her with Wynne and keeping the horrid Leliana because she could pick locks (the only only reason I kept her in my party).
I think I might be doing something wrong and thats fine. But I have just heard of so many character balancing problems on this game I feel like I am playing World of Warcraft again. I just wanted something that competed with the polish in the characters like Mass Effect (PC release anyhow, the 360 version had too many bugs).
Also I am ranting because I do not want to have to reroll (I know. . .WoW term) to fully experience everything...however Arcane Warrior does sound enticing

 See that's the thing.....this is not a MMO, this is a single player RPG and "balance" does not matter. There are actually vast differences in the classes here unlike a MMO where everyone thinks that they have to be on equal ground.

 Find the party members that you like, and exploit their strengths.

 Every party combination in this game can be used to great effect. Learn the skills and learn some tactics. I hope that didn't sound mean, but this is no narmal hack and slash game.

.. Where in the hell do these people keep coming up with these balance only be MMO related?  Clearly there are problems, for instance in baldur's Gate 2 there were some classes that just flat out SUCKED that you should never play (even if you wanted to) because you will be highly ineffective..  The fact that there are 3 core classes, and one is clearly head and shoulers over the others is unforgivable.. Especially when you don't even need to consider about over all power but the fact they can go deep in ALL trees with out worry of weakening them selves unlike a rogue or a warrior.. No one is asking for complete balance, but clearly the mage is WAY ahead of the other two classes.. Maybe if they were limited of choosing from one of the spell trees like rogue and warrior are pretty much forced to do.. Not to mentiont here are ONLY 2 spell caster npc's in the game.. So if your a warrior or rogue, you are going to have to pick one or both of them in nearly every play through to make some encounters manageable.. Gulping down potions every second is not what I would consider fun or manageable but more of a "challenge run" rather than a legitimate play through with the game.

Yeah that seems to be a pretty common stone for people to throw whenever someone posts anything negative about this game either that or they preach to you how you must have never played an rpg before kinda amusing actually.
Myself i think the game rocks but it has issues like ALL games have at release, thankfully there will be many mods soon and people will have many different options to change things that the dont like and for those who think the game is perfect  and people that complain are just noobs who only complain because they suck ,well they can just keep on drinking the kool aid.

[menasure]

i just finished a boss fight after 3 hours staring in disbelief at my screen. i figured it could not be done with the party i selected. it turned out that i just didn't see what's probably the easiest solution ever *bangs head against the wall*



the fights in this game are practically build around tactics but why would you even care that a particular party setup doesn't work for you? it's a solo rpg, not a competition and you're the only one who can determine how difficult you're going to make it yourself. if some fights don't feel like you can handle them ... just change the difficulty whenever you want it or select a different team. it's not that hard to make your own fun either. in real life enemies are never as customizable as in a game

[Hurrrr]

To all the dudes complaining (and believe me I like hearing complaints on this forum, if only to upset the bio****s), why bother? Theres a toolset out, its just a matter of time.



In all honesty we ALL got our moneys worth.

[JigPig]

"Why I don't care that you stopped playing DA:O"

[Spaceweed10]

xylrocks wrote...

 I think I might have expected too much from the company that brought me Mass Effect and Neverwinter Nights. Those games that released with such polish to character balances and the intricacies of each class. After playing DA:O for over 40hrs so far I have found out:
1) The difficulty scale is non-existent: One minute I am rocking the joint, the next slaughtered. I know this has been a consistent problem throughout...my question is why?? Mass Effect had no such bad scaling of difficulty (I have beat it on all difficulties and have multiple characters that I did it with). Why is this broken BioWare? Why?
2) In order for you to succeed without sheer luck you need to have a nuking mage in your party. If I want to roll with an archer, healz, tank and rogue or 2h warrior I am out of luck, becuase one minute I am doing fine than the system spawns 14 archers on me with two yellow shrieks. And of course my archer can't kill one of them by herself (yes by herself, she dies when she faces another archer by herself). Without an AOE mage I am screwed.
3) In order to play on any sort of difficulty I have to roll one of three archetypes: Tank with shield, elemental mage, or dual wield rogue. Why? because a hexing mage falls the same issue my archer does: she sucks, because archers don't do damage, and 2h warriors miss ALL THE TIME (roughly 1/2...the weapon is so big it would be nigh impossible to miss anything!)(even with 48 strength @ lvl 14 and 30 dex)

In conclusion I expected more polish on the character classes in a BioWare game. Maybe it is because they were bought out by such a company like EA that pushes out crap on a daily basis, or they just had too many games on their plate (ME2, DA:O, TOR-The Old Republic)
Or maybe I am just doing something horribly wrong which can be true too...oh I can just respec my party and....oh....
So BioWare please update this game FAST. I would enjoy rolling every single class combination as soon as possible, but when all I can do is sit in the shadow of a mage and plink away with my 2h axe or my mighty bow and arrow, I don't want to play (BTW I have three friends who are playing an elemenatl mage, and dual weapon rogue/warrior and they are doing fine, I mean earthquake>cone of ice>fireball clears 12 archers pretty fast. But it takes 6 min for me to kill them without a nuke mage...wtf....)

Clueless - L2P.

[Kolaris8472]

Completely agree with the OP.



L2P? This isn't an RTS or an MMO, its an RPG. You should be able to play it the way you want (within limits), there should be little to no 'right method' unless you want to play on Nightmare.

[lordhugorune]

Within limits Kolaris.

It is a RPG, but it is also designed to provide tactical challenges, at various levels.
If players think it beneath them to learn how to play the game, they should not expect to win on normal difficulty. That's what easy difficulty is for.
Normal difficulty allows a lot of flexibility with the kind of group you take into. In fact, probably any combination of classes can win on normal, so long as you're properly equipped and use tactics appropriate to what you're fighting. Hard allows a lot of options as well, so long as you have a reasonably balanced party, although I've yet to play a game at that level. It's only nightmare really where you are forced into only the most optimal ways of playing.

Modifié par lordhugorune, 14 novembre 2009 - 03:46 .

[warchanter]

The only thing this marvellous game (I'm addicted!) needs to be perfect is a mod that lets you add more than 3 party members to your "pack". Come on modders!

[muniekk85]

2hand weapons ftw > Just watch my dwarf and Sten rockin' xD

[Scimal]

Kolaris8472 wrote...

Completely agree with the OP.

L2P? This isn't an RTS or an MMO, its an RPG. You should be able to play it the way you want (within limits), there should be little to no 'right method' unless you want to play on Nightmare.

Within limits.

Those limits were set by the designers of the game.

This is a tactical RPG. You need to use your brain if you expect to get through the game. The most difficult fight I've encountered so far was actually in Denerim. For the life of me I just could not beat it because I didn't have the potions nor the power at the time. Luckily it was the result of a cutscene so I wasn't forced to.

You think the option of binding Quick Save and Quick Reload to keys should hint that the designers want you to try a dozen different ways. If you're having major trouble, ask for help - don't blame your cluelessness on BioWare. Like I said, I've only met a single, solitary encounter I just absolutely could not defeat. With a different group makeup, I might've been able to - and certainly with more potions. Only one, though. And it wasn't a dragon.

[Phoenixblight]

You don't need a Mage to breeze through the trash. I played on Hard difficulty without a DPS mage just Wynne for healing. All her talents were built around buffs and healing. THen I had two warriors (Allistair and PC) and Lelina. Had no issue with my composition, there were times I biffed (quite a few in fact) but that was because I didn't put enough resistance gear and consumables to help the fight. You shuldn't expect every fight to be cake and just roll through it. Archdemon and Flemeth were the hardest battles imo.

[Curry Noodles]

You thought Mass Effect was balanced? Haha...



That said, there are some videos of teams full of warriors running through stuff on nightmare. It's not as easy as using mages, but it's definitely doable. You use a lot of potions and make sure you use disable moves on enemies using overpower type abilities since people can only heal themselves. Traps and poison help out a lot for warriors.



I'd imagine addressing mages isn't too hard if you get a templar or two. I don't know about NPC mages, but my mage ended up having more mana than HP, so templars could kill me pretty easily unless I was in AW mode with no mana.

[marshalleck]

Sounds like OP is pretty bad at the game. I got through it with a PC warrior, Alistair, Leliana and Wynne. Yes, large archer groups were a challenge but they were never insurmountable.

[Wissenschaft]

I love the diffuclty of this game. Its so rare to find a hard RPG noadays.

I'm playing a duel wielding Duelist with Alistor (tank), Leliana(scattershot FTW), and Morrigan WITHOUT any heal spells. I don't need them, I just use potions and lots of AOE stuning spells like Waking nightmare.

I can beat then game on hard with this party and it so much fun to play. Not to mention I love these party members. Their banters are fantastic and a lot more than whats in BG2.

Modifié par Wissenschaft, 14 novembre 2009 - 04:15 .

[kinsha22]

This game got ALOT easier once one of my mages learned cone of cold.... but there are definitely a few battles where my mage was really forced to do nothing more than healing duties. Any monster which could survive the initial onslaught of spells thrown at it would tear apart my mage in short order.



I personally found Leliana pretty useless, other than lockpicking, but she got alot more useful later. Taking control of her during melees to do backstabs was pretty useful, and giving her arrow of slaying was pretty useful for taking out mages at a distance. Those spell casters werent so pesky with a arrow in the head.

[0LunarEclipse0]

xylrocks wrote...

 I think I might have expected too much from the company that brought me Mass Effect and Neverwinter Nights. Those games that released with such polish to character balances and the intricacies of each class. After playing DA:O for over 40hrs so far I have found out: That I am not using tactics or balencing out my play style. Can someone please help me with this?

(I fixed your post)
Well sure my friend since you asked so nicely here are some great ways to help you out. I am glad I was here to help. I found these threads wonderful all because I took the time to ask like you.

Tactics    http://social.biowar.../9/index/151399

General help   http://social.biowar.../9/index/146463

[Kolaris8472]

Scimal wrote...

Kolaris8472 wrote...

Completely agree with the OP.

L2P? This isn't an RTS or an MMO, its an RPG. You should be able to play it the way you want (within limits), there should be little to no 'right method' unless you want to play on Nightmare.

Within limits.

Those limits were set by the designers of the game.

This is a tactical RPG. You need to use your brain if you expect to get through the game. The most difficult fight I've encountered so far was actually in Denerim. For the life of me I just could not beat it because I didn't have the potions nor the power at the time. Luckily it was the result of a cutscene so I wasn't forced to.

You think the option of binding Quick Save and Quick Reload to keys should hint that the designers want you to try a dozen different ways. If you're having major trouble, ask for help - don't blame your cluelessness on BioWare. Like I said, I've only met a single, solitary encounter I just absolutely could not defeat. With a different group makeup, I might've been able to - and certainly with more potions. Only one, though. And it wasn't a dragon.

I am no stranger to these types of games. I play it entirely like a turn based RPG, not even using tactics because I'm controlling each of the 4 characters every single attack. I do this in the hopes I can make up for the heinous penalties they give you for trying to Roleplay a character, but alas its simply impossible.

Whether you want to call this a story-driven or character-driven RPG, either way it feels disgusting to me that they expect you to quick load the same battle 9 times and chug-a-lug potions until whatever is hitting you falls over from sheer exhaustion. That's a terrible way to create a feeling of heroism, and it deeply injures the story they're trying to tell.

The types of battles that should be happening are the ones that leave you diving into an alcove or whatever cover you can find, hoping there are no more enemies coming and saying under your breath "Phew, that was close". This is what Mass Effect did perfectly. But in DA:O, 4 times out of 10 you go through a battle wondering where the challenge is, another 4 times out of 10 you basically reload the battle 5 times before you can manage to exploit the AI into getting stuck, and perhaps 2 out of 10 you get that satisfactory feeling of overcoming it through careful on your feet thinking, NOT because you had an Arcane Warrior bite off more than he can chew.

[Varenus Luckmann]

[Narianna]

I've noticed some monsters being much harder to fight than others but I've found with the right grouping and skills/talents, you can play any PC they offer and still make it through. Granted, some are more difficult than others. Start with a warrior type for your first time and work your way up once you're more familiar with each quest.

[Ninjaphrog]

xylrocks wrote...

 I think I might have expected too much from the company that brought me Mass Effect and Neverwinter Nights. Those games that released with such polish to character balances and the intricacies of each class. After playing DA:O for over 40hrs so far I have found out:
1) The difficulty scale is non-existent: One minute I am rocking the joint, the next slaughtered. I know this has been a consistent problem throughout...my question is why?? Mass Effect had no such bad scaling of difficulty (I have beat it on all difficulties and have multiple characters that I did it with). Why is this broken BioWare? Why?
2) In order for you to succeed without sheer luck you need to have a nuking mage in your party. If I want to roll with an archer, healz, tank and rogue or 2h warrior I am out of luck, becuase one minute I am doing fine than the system spawns 14 archers on me with two yellow shrieks. And of course my archer can't kill one of them by herself (yes by herself, she dies when she faces another archer by herself). Without an AOE mage I am screwed.
3) In order to play on any sort of difficulty I have to roll one of three archetypes: Tank with shield, elemental mage, or dual wield rogue. Why? because a hexing mage falls the same issue my archer does: she sucks, because archers don't do damage, and 2h warriors miss ALL THE TIME (roughly 1/2...the weapon is so big it would be nigh impossible to miss anything!)(even with 48 strength @ lvl 14 and 30 dex)

In conclusion I expected more polish on the character classes in a BioWare game. Maybe it is because they were bought out by such a company like EA that pushes out crap on a daily basis, or they just had too many games on their plate (ME2, DA:O, TOR-The Old Republic)
Or maybe I am just doing something horribly wrong which can be true too...oh I can just respec my party and....oh....
So BioWare please update this game FAST. I would enjoy rolling every single class combination as soon as possible, but when all I can do is sit in the shadow of a mage and plink away with my 2h axe or my mighty bow and arrow, I don't want to play (BTW I have three friends who are playing an elemenatl mage, and dual weapon rogue/warrior and they are doing fine, I mean earthquake>cone of ice>fireball clears 12 archers pretty fast. But it takes 6 min for me to kill them without a nuke mage...wtf....)

I have the solution to your problem...

Play hack n' slash RPGs...too much strategy in this game for ya obviously.

[Justin_iZ_Here]

xylrocks wrote...

 I think I might have expected too much from the company that brought me Mass Effect and Neverwinter Nights. Those games that released with such polish to character balances and the intricacies of each class. After playing DA:O for over 40hrs so far I have found out:
1) The difficulty scale is non-existent: One minute I am rocking the joint, the next slaughtered. I know this has been a consistent problem throughout...my question is why?? Mass Effect had no such bad scaling of difficulty (I have beat it on all difficulties and have multiple characters that I did it with). Why is this broken BioWare? Why?
2) In order for you to succeed without sheer luck you need to have a nuking mage in your party. If I want to roll with an archer, healz, tank and rogue or 2h warrior I am out of luck, becuase one minute I am doing fine than the system spawns 14 archers on me with two yellow shrieks. And of course my archer can't kill one of them by herself (yes by herself, she dies when she faces another archer by herself). Without an AOE mage I am screwed.
3) In order to play on any sort of difficulty I have to roll one of three archetypes: Tank with shield, elemental mage, or dual wield rogue. Why? because a hexing mage falls the same issue my archer does: she sucks, because archers don't do damage, and 2h warriors miss ALL THE TIME (roughly 1/2...the weapon is so big it would be nigh impossible to miss anything!)(even with 48 strength @ lvl 14 and 30 dex)

In conclusion I expected more polish on the character classes in a BioWare game. Maybe it is because they were bought out by such a company like EA that pushes out crap on a daily basis, or they just had too many games on their plate (ME2, DA:O, TOR-The Old Republic)
Or maybe I am just doing something horribly wrong which can be true too...oh I can just respec my party and....oh....
So BioWare please update this game FAST. I would enjoy rolling every single class combination as soon as possible, but when all I can do is sit in the shadow of a mage and plink away with my 2h axe or my mighty bow and arrow, I don't want to play (BTW I have three friends who are playing an elemenatl mage, and dual weapon rogue/warrior and they are doing fine, I mean earthquake>cone of ice>fireball clears 12 archers pretty fast. But it takes 6 min for me to kill them without a nuke mage...wtf....)

cool story bro.

[Thasic]

It is apparent you (and several others for that matter) are not playing this game the way it was designed to be played. Mages are uber powerful in DOA. That is the way the game was designed. Learn to live with it. I'm not somebody that plays endless hours of computer games. I'm married with two kids and a job, so I don't have the inate skills at CRPGs that a lot of kids have yet I am having no problems playing this game. I just learned the rules and live by them.

Not every game can be NWN or some D&D derivative. If you don't like the game play something else. Tens of thousands of people love the game as is. You and  few others don't. Who do you think Bioware will listen to?