61 réponses à ce sujet

[Fixers0]

Welcome everyone 

One of the Small things that always bothered me with the whole Mass effect Series( all games comics, novels) is the way the military is handled, with the exception of a couple of codex entries, the whole Alliance Navy seems unorganised, with no strict rules or chain of command and the lack of real informations on how the Navy works and is organised.

Let me gives you a quick example: the Alliance Uniforms, sorry to say buth the Alliance Unifomrs are pure Rubbish at the moment, there is absolutly now way to understand on what's going on or how we are supposed to believe this.
 
Let's start with the Armor.
Appearantly the Alliance just uses the same Armor models everyone else in the galaxy, with no Symbols or anything to denote rank, it's not difference to any other armor except for that it is painted grey...  ....But what about the Marines on Zakara ward, they wear white and purple armor, oh crap! what is happening?

Navy Jumpsuit.
Alright, so everyone Navy crewman, NCO or officer wears this odd identical sleeveles t-shirt with a blue camo, with again no way to see what rank the officers have, it is Appearent that this odd jumpsuit is also worn by senior officer as Shepard who holds the Rank of Lieutenant Commanders, but then Pressly wears an officers dress with one stripe and he is lower ranked then Shepard, oh help please what's going on here here Bioware ? please help! 

Officer's dress.
So Some people in the navy are using this weird officer's dress, that should be very comfortable to wear while commanding a space ship, Well  this one at least which has stripes on it, finaly something to denote rank...
...Wait why does captain anderson wears a tree stripe variant while Admiral Kahoku only has one stripe on his uniform, Bioware do you expect us to believe this?

Suggestions for ME3

Please Improve the Alliance Navy in ME 3 Bioware , i beg you please give the Military some love and a decent organisation, currently everything looks like nothing i can compare it to.

[Bailyn242]

I'll add my support for this as well. Please Bioware, I understand that most of you are Canadians with no real military service in your background but there are quite a few of your customers/fans who do.



I'll also drop a note in here to request an Alliance Uniform with proper rank insignia added to the next appearance pack so my Shepard doesn't have to wear Cerberus gear or evening wear, don't even get me started on the rogue's outfit with the bloody vest that is your only non-cerberus option until the Kasumi mission.

[Zulu_DFA]

I'm afraid, "doing the research" is not the line praised by the EA/BioWare executives in the writers' and artists' schedules, especially now, with the final installment of the series being pushed forward the next year after the godawful ME2.

But there is a novel by William Dietz coming in September, that must be a bit more accurate in the military-related stuff, since Dietz spent a few years in the US Marines.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 27 janvier 2011 - 10:37 .

[AdmiralCheez]

Fixers0 wrote...

...Wait why does captain anderson wears a tree stripe variant while Admiral Kahoku only has one stripe on his uniform, Bioware do you expect us to believe this?

The only part where I cringed.  Small goof, but it ain't that hard to google that sort of thing.

Otherwise, I'm not getting my panties in a bundle over it.

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 27 janvier 2011 - 10:38 .

[uzivatel]

Fixers0 wrote...

Let's start with the Armor.
Appearantly the Alliance just uses the same Armor models everyone else in the galaxy, with no Symbols or anything to denote rank, it's not difference to any other armor except for that it is painted grey...  ....But what about the Marines on Zakara ward, they wear white and purple armor, oh crap! what is happening?

Soldiers deployed on different planets use different armour colours? Thats not exactly surprising - most armies have multiple camo patterns depending on the enviroment (or even time of year). Sometimes different branches of one army use different camo patterns even in the same enviroment.
As for ranks, afaik snipers love anything that allows them to recognize officers.

In ME days, most of the armies probably use some in-helmet IFF system anyway.

Modifié par uzivatel, 27 janvier 2011 - 11:01 .

[CroGamer002]

ME1 had limited engine and we don't see anything from Alliance in ME2.

[CroGamer002]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

I'm afraid, "doing the research" is not the line praised by the EA/BioWare executives in the writers' and artists' schedules, especially now, with the final installment of the series being pushed forward the next year after the awesome ME2.

But there is a novel by William Dietz coming in September, that must be a bit more accurate in the military-related stuff, since Dietz spent a few years in the US Marines.

Did you played Medal of Honor 2010?

I'm pretty sure they did their research there.



OK it's not Bioware but it is under EA.

[Pwner1323]

I never minded Shepard not wearing a uniform in ME1. He doesn't like them. Now the uniform of Cerberus's officers? Now that's a sleek oufit to show off.

[james1976]

Someone mentioned left-handed salutes in another thread a while back, but I never once saw anyone doing that in ME1 or ME2.

...Wait why does captain anderson wears a tree stripe variant while Admiral Kahoku only has one stripe on his uniform, Bioware do you expect us to believe this?

Perhaps it is because he is a Rear Admiral. I don't know. Kahoku is also wearing a hat. So did the Admiral who wanted to inspect your ship in ME1. Seem all admirals wear hats. But then "Admiral Anderson" wears a 3 stripe variant if Udina is made council.



I'm not giving way to excuses. Don't really understand the inconsistencies either.

[james1976]

Pwner1323 wrote...

I never minded Shepard not wearing a uniform in ME1. He doesn't like them. Now the uniform of Cerberus's officers? Now that's a sleek oufit to show off.

What's funny about that is, Cerberus is suppose to be a rogue black-ops group right?  LOL  Wearing uniforms and painting a Cerberus logo on ships and stations doesn't add up either.

[Pwner1323]

james1976 wrote...

Pwner1323 wrote...

I never minded Shepard not wearing a uniform in ME1. He doesn't like them. Now the uniform of Cerberus's officers? Now that's a sleek oufit to show off.

What's funny about that is, Cerberus is suppose to be a rogue black-ops group right?  LOL  Wearing uniforms and painting a Cerberus logo on ships and stations doesn't add up either.

We are too cool to care..... that, and TIM likes getting his name out there. Everyone needs sponsors after all, and Cerberus has them inside the Alliance and beyond. EDI said so, and we all buy up what EDI says.

[AdmiralCheez]

*suddenly feels culturally ignorant* Oh.

[james1976]

Imperium Alpha wrote...

You do guys realize that those outfit are 100% consistent ?

Canadian Forces Navy sleeve insignia


(1968-2010) AND since 2010
Captain :


Rear Admiral :


Admiral :



You just got pwned by BioWare
http://en.wikipedia....ks_and_insignia

Nicely done. 

[Pwner1323]

Nice one.

[xedgorex]

Haha i salute you in your epic win.

[Ship.wreck_]

I served in the Navy and this issue didn't bother me as much. In fact I didn't even really notice. Mainly because there are a LOT of millitary insignia meaning a lot of different things. Unless they're going to give us a very lengthy and potentially boring breakdown of the entire Aliance military uniform code we're never going to have a complete understanding of what uniforms are being worn by whom and for what reasons. And that's fine with me.

You mentioned Anderson wearing 3 stripes on his uniform while an admiral wore only one: In the US Navy "service stripes" are worn on uniforms representing the length of time a sailor or officer has served. These stripes represent units of time, while rank is not determined by time alone, so it's easily possible (and often the case) for a lower ranking sailor to have more stripes than a higher ranking one.

You mentioned that officers and crew members all wear identical jumpsuits while operating shipboard: In the US Navy this is in fact the case. On a ship the working uniform is a jumpsuit and all officers and sailors wear the same jumpsuit. The only indications of rank are small insignia on the collars. Also when operating ashore the working uniform is often camoflage, and everyone wears the same camoflage. Only dress uniforms are noticeably different between ranks.

You also took issue with the lack of ranking insignia: It's fairly common practice in the todays military for members of special units and teams to wear "sterile" uniforms, intentionally left devoid of rank insignia and personal identifiers like name tags. This is to prevent enemies from identifying individuals and ranking officers.

Obviously the Aliance military should not be an exact mirror of the contemporary US military. But contemporary military systems are the framework on which Bioware's vision of the future Aliance military is built, and almost nothing in Bioware's representation of the Aliance Navy is radically different or "out of the question" based on the reality of similar military organisations today.

What doesn't make any sense and what does bother me is that a so called "Marine" (Shepard) is the Commanding Officer of a Navy vessel, and although we see a Navy crew working on a Navy ship everytime we play the game, we never see any individual (combatant or not) refered to as a "sailor". This is the case for both ME and ME2, even though one of the main characters of ME (Ashley) is reffered to as a Chief, which is a Navy rank of a SAILOR. Appearently, even though we use the term Navy and a Navy ship and Navy ranks, "God forbid we give any credit to the actuall people who comprise Navys, who are called sailors". If they wanted Shepard to be a Marine, he should not be in command of a ship (that's just not what marines do), and if they wanted Shepard to command a ship, he should not be a Marine, but both at the same time? That just doesn't work for me.

Also the boarding of the Normandy was grossly played down. The supposedly hand picked elite crew of the Normandy suddenly became pushovers and failed to provide any kind of effective resistance, very dissapointing. It absolutely should have been a playable mission, and if not that, it should at least have been a much more impressive fight to watch as a cutscene.

[Sajuro]

Pwner1323 wrote...

I never minded Shepard not wearing a uniform in ME1. He doesn't like them. Now the uniform of Cerberus's officers? Now that's a sleek oufit to show off.

I must admit. I loved the Cerberus outfit so much, as soon as I got the formal wear that looked like it, I switched and never looked back.
I vote for fem shep to get a formal outfit like male shep's instead of a dress.

[Bailyn242]

Imperium Alpha wrote...

You do guys realize that those outfit are 100% consistent ?

Canadian Forces Navy sleeve insignia


(1968-2010) AND since 2010
Captain :


Rear Admiral :


Admiral :



You just got pwned by BioWare
http://en.wikipedia....ks_and_insignia

Next time I replay ME1 I'll take a look at that.

Come to think of it I have never done a play through where Udina was the Councillor. He's always the political hack left on the sidelines so I've never seen Anderson's uniform since he was Captain of the Normandy.

I still want something non-Cerberus in a Uniform.

Modifié par Bailyn242, 28 janvier 2011 - 12:18 .

[SandTrout]

Also former US navy here, and I as well never found too much issue with the way uniforms were done in the ME series. I agree with most of what Ship.wreck posted.

PS: I also never place my expectations too high on civilian writers properly representing military culture.

Modifié par SandTrout, 28 janvier 2011 - 12:31 .

[James2912]

Shepard's Marine rank should be Major, rather than the navy rank of lieutenant commander. I guess Commander Shepard just sounds better...

[Ship.wreck_]

Edit: fixed quote tag

SandTrout wrote...

Also former US navy here, and I as well never found too much issue with the way uniforms were done in the ME series. I agree with most of what Ship.wreck posted.

PS: I also never place my expectations too high on civilian writers properly representing military culture.

Good call SandTrout. That "repel boarders" situation was BS wasn't it?

Imperium Alpha wrote...
Well in the beginning of the game you don't command any ship and mostly follow orders of Captain Anderson. Also, i believe Anderson and Udina explain you after becoming the first human spectre that you need to be in command of a ship. A spectre must be free to go where they want.

In the beginning of the game Shepard is the Executive Officer of the Normandy, which also, as a Marine, would never happen. The Spectre wildcard does give them a little bit of logical wiggle room but that fact I just mentioned shows that they were screwing up from the begining.

James2912 wrote...

Shepard's Marine rank should be Major, rather than the navy rank of lieutenant commander. I guess Commander Shepard just sounds better...

Hahaha! Nice catch, and another perfect example. Everything in this game including the ranks of people is Navy, except THE PEOPLE!

I guess Marine just sounds better than Sailor.

Modifié par Ship.wreck , 28 janvier 2011 - 12:53 .

[SandTrout]

The Alliance has a unified rank and command structure: source. This makes sense as in ME era warfare the ground fight means little if you don't control the space, and vice-versa.

As for the Repel-boarders, I give them a little bit of slack because the crew was Cerberus, and we don't know how many of them had any Alliance training other than Chakwas, Gabby, Ken, and Joker.