61 réponses à ce sujet

[Ship.wreck_]

SandTrout wrote...

The Alliance has a unified rank and command structure: source. This makes sense as in ME era warfare the ground fight means little if you don't control the space, and vice-versa.
As for the Repel-boarders, I give them a little bit of slack because the crew was Cerberus, and we don't know how many of them had any Alliance training other than Chakwas, Gabby, Ken, and Joker.

Meh... That's a good point. But they still should be the best Cerberus has and that should mean something, I think they should have put up way more of a fight. That's if not making it a playable mission which it should have been.

Cerberus seems to be a weird and ugly hybrid of Al Qaida, the CIA, a PMC like Blackwater and maybe a little **** sprinkled in (on account of the gruesome experiments conducted on alien species and some humans). I think that means their personell should be formidable.

Edit: I'm going to school, "I'll be back."

Edit: I CAN'T BELIEVE they blanked out that word. In case you're wondering what in the world I was talking about, I was refering to the bygone German political party that was at one point led by Hitler (on account of the gruesome experiments conducted on alien species and some humans by Cerberus).

Modifié par Ship.wreck , 28 janvier 2011 - 03:32 .

[Gabey5]

they used canadian symbols

[PantokratorII]

I too miss a more naval uniform for shepard e.g. black/navy blue sweater.



A lot of navies use similar stripes (with or without the loop) on the sleeves of jackets or shoulderboards if you are wearing a shirt or jumpsuit. As a rule of thumb if there is a loop on the stripe it is a "royal (insert country) navy" but there are exceptions to this rule.

the american system of grades is (from my experience a a naval officer in an europian country) unusual - i know i have trouble reading them at least.



The crew of a spaceship should also have some kind of "general quarters suit" enabling them to function in the event of loss of atmosphere during combat, or to survive if a fire breaks out thus depleting O2 or realeasing toxic gases.



Last but not least: if Shep is such good leader how come he never ask why crewman hawthorne ( i think thats the name anyway) is sitting in the mess ALL THE TIME! And the two idlers in the crewquarters could also do some work once in a while, it just seems wrong! the other crewmembers will begin to resent them soon. "that was a joke"

[Bailyn242]

Made me chuckle, I can hear EDI now.



"That was a joke Shepard"

[sniperdude]

i think the OP was trollin

[Ship.wreck_]

PantokratorII wrote...
I too miss a more naval uniform for shepard e.g. black/navy blue sweater.

A lot of navies use similar stripes (with or without the loop) on the sleeves of jackets or shoulderboards if you are wearing a shirt or jumpsuit. As a rule of thumb if there is a loop on the stripe it is a "royal (insert country) navy" but there are exceptions to this rule.
the american system of grades is (from my experience a a naval officer in an europian country) unusual - i know i have trouble reading them at least.

I can't even read the insignia of the other branches in the US!

The crew of a spaceship should also have some kind of "general quarters suit" enabling them to function in the event of loss of atmosphere during combat, or to survive if a fire breaks out thus depleting O2 or realeasing toxic gases.

The same armor suits that Shepard and his squad wear I would imagine, although you never get to see them. Yeah, they should have doned those suits and put boots on the Collectors, during that boarding!

Last but not least: if Shep is such good leader how come he never ask why crewman hawthorne ( i think thats the name anyway) is sitting in the mess ALL THE TIME! And the two idlers in the crewquarters could also do some work once in a while, it just seems wrong! the other crewmembers will begin to resent them soon. "that was a joke"

Spoken like a true officer... damn swivel chair jockeys. Mwahahahaha!

[Ship.wreck_]

SandTrout wrote...

The Alliance has a unified rank and command structure: source. This makes sense as in ME era warfare the ground fight means little if you don't control the space, and vice-versa.

So this means everyone is a "Marine" and everyone is in the "Navy"? Doesn't make any more sense than it would today. Controlling the skies doesn't mean much if you aren't doing so well on the ground, neither is possible if you don't controll the seas... But we don't call everyone Marine, or roll all branches into the Navy. Although the ill informed do tend to refer to everyone on the ground as "soldier", that's not military doctrine. No sir, I don't like it.

[Fixers0]

Imperium Alpha wrote...

You do guys realize that those outfit are 100% consistent ?

Canadian Forces Navy sleeve insignia


(1968-2010) AND since 2010
Captain :


Rear Admiral :


Admiral :



You just got pwned by BioWare
http://en.wikipedia....ks_and_insignia

Still doesn't make any sense for several reasons.

1.The  Stripe that Kahoku has on his shoulder is no thicker then those of anderson.
2. He Wears the Same Uniform as Navigator Pressely.
3. Has only stripe on his sleeve.
4, Rear Admiral  Mikhailovich has the same rank as kahoku and he has three shoulder stripes.

Sources.
1. Kahoku masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Kahoku
2. Mikhailovich masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Rear_Admiral_Mikhailovich
3. Anderson masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/David_Anderson
4. Pressly  masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Navigator_Pressly

So if Bioware Really used the Canadian System then i am afraid they made a little to much Nothing Makes sense.

Modifié par Fixers0, 28 janvier 2011 - 06:41 .

[SandTrout]

Ship.wreck wrote...
So this means everyone is a "Marine" and everyone is in the "Navy"? Doesn't make any more sense than it would today. Controlling the skies doesn't mean much if you aren't doing so well on the ground, neither is possible if you don't controll the seas... But we don't call everyone Marine, or roll all branches into the Navy. Although the ill informed do tend to refer to everyone on the ground as "soldier", that's not military doctrine. No sir, I don't like it.

Think of the ME maries like a series of naval ratings, kind of likethe seabees. Even though the Construction Batalion is made up of naval ratings, they're nor generally considered 'sailors'. Alliance marines are set up similarly. They're still within the rank structure of the Alliance, and their line officers cross-train and can eventually become COs of ships, much like Naval aviators can become the captains of aircraft carriers, but out of tradition, the ground combat ratings are refered to as marines. The marine platoons and companies are integral parts of each ship's crew and are most likely cross-trained so that they can serve a role on the ship even while not deployed into combat.

I'm not saying this is how I would do it, but this is how it is portrayed by the ME writers.

[SandTrout]

Fixers0 wrote...
Still doesn't make any sense for several reasons.

1.The  Stripe that Kahoku has on his shoulder is no thicker then those of anderson.
2. He Wears the Same Uniform as Navigator Pressely.
3. Has only stripe on his sleeve.
4, Rear Admiral  Mikhailovich has the same rank as kahoku and he has three shoulder stripes.

Sources.
1. Kahoku masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Kahoku
2. Mikhailovich masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Rear_Admiral_Mikhailovich
3. Anderson masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/David_Anderson
4. Pressly  masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Navigator_Pressly

So if Bioware Really used the Canadian System then i am afraid they made a little to much Nothing Makes sense.

More that likely this is simply a mistake by the development team. I wouldn't read too much into it. As I said earlier, civilians typically have a difficult time comprehending all the minute details of military culture. It's just something you should accept.

[SaulTighsEyePatch]

As far as the whole "sailor" thing is concerned, correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure I've heard the enlisted men referred to as "serviceman" somewhere in the two games. Its likely that they've retired the word "sailor", as this is a space navy, not a wet navy, and spaceships don't "sail".

[SaulTighsEyePatch]

SandTrout wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...
Still doesn't make any sense for several reasons.

1.The  Stripe that Kahoku has on his shoulder is no thicker then those of anderson.
2. He Wears the Same Uniform as Navigator Pressely.
3. Has only stripe on his sleeve.
4, Rear Admiral  Mikhailovich has the same rank as kahoku and he has three shoulder stripes.

Sources.
1. Kahoku masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Kahoku
2. Mikhailovich masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Rear_Admiral_Mikhailovich
3. Anderson masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/David_Anderson
4. Pressly  masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Navigator_Pressly

So if Bioware Really used the Canadian System then i am afraid they made a little to much Nothing Makes sense.

More that likely this is simply a mistake by the development team. I wouldn't read too much into it. As I said earlier, civilians typically have a difficult time comprehending all the minute details of military culture. It's just something you should accept.

That is a pretty big oversight on Bioware's part. So now Navigator Pressly = Rear Admiral Kahoku, and Captain Anderson = Rear Admiral Michailovich? It makes no sense.

And I disagree with your statement that we should just accept it. Yes, we civilians dont' always understand the nuances of military culture, but when there is a discrepancy, we notice it, as evidenced by this thread. So we should not just roll over and say "Oh well, not many of us are in the military, so Bioware gets a free pass to play fast and loose with military details, herp a derp!!!11" We need to hold them to a higher standard of quality and research. When I'm playing the game and I see something like this, two rear-admirals with different rank stripes, it takes me out of the game and says to me, "Oh, Bioware didn't give a damn about the details." Which then ruins immersion. And Bioware takes immersion very seriously, stating on multiple occasions that they greatly strive to engross the player in the universe.

Modifié par SaulTighsEyePatch, 28 janvier 2011 - 07:35 .

[Bogsnot1]

I have an idea. Get over it.

Its a fictional game, set in a fictional universe. Seriously, you people are becoming as pedantic as trekkies.

Whats next? Kenneth isnt actually scottish because he doesn't wander in a kilt around saying "Och aye, laddie!"?

[Ship.wreck_]

SaulTighsEyePatch wrote...

As far as the whole "sailor" thing is concerned, correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure I've heard the enlisted men referred to as "serviceman" somewhere in the two games. Its likely that they've retired the word "sailor", as this is a space navy, not a wet navy, and spaceships don't "sail".

Neither do our ships today, but we keep the word sailor out of tradition. Although, the further into the future we go the more likely it becomes that we'll abandon our current traditions... I still don't like it.

[SandTrout]

Things that break immersion are calling enlisted members officers and commissioned members enlisted, or someone so physically crippled that they can barely walk without breaking a leg, let alone assist in the emergency repair of a hull breach or fight a fire getting accepted for military service. The issue here is the people making the skins slipped up, or only had time to make a few skins, and not a different one for every rank. Even for those of us who were in the military, this is not something that bothers us overly much, if we even noticed. This is really an insignificant detail that's getting picked at only because people are impatient waiting for ME3 to come out.

Modifié par SandTrout, 28 janvier 2011 - 07:45 .

[Ship.wreck_]

Bogsnot1 wrote...

I have an idea. Get over it.
Its a fictional game, set in a fictional universe. Seriously, you people are becoming as pedantic as trekkies.
Whats next? Kenneth isnt actually scottish because he doesn't wander in a kilt around saying "Och aye, laddie!"?

That's good advice. But this is what happens when you write a halfway decent story and market it to nerds like myself. In fact you wouldn't be on this forum if you weren't just as nerdily interested in debating these nerdy topics.

[Praetor Knight]

Bogsnot1 wrote...

Whats next? Kenneth isnt actually scottish because he doesn't wander in a kilt around saying "Och aye, laddie!"?

I just want to hear him say, "I'm giving her all she's got Captain!"

At least once.

[CroGamer002]

Imperium Alpha wrote...

You do guys realize that those outfit are 100% consistent ?

Canadian Forces Navy sleeve insignia


(1968-2010) AND since 2010
Captain :


Rear Admiral :


Admiral :



You just got pwned by BioWare
http://en.wikipedia....ks_and_insignia

Damn, I'm keep to forgeting Bioware is from Canada.

[Ship.wreck_]

SandTrout wrote...

Ship.wreck wrote...
So this means everyone is a "Marine" and everyone is in the "Navy"? Doesn't make any more sense than it would today. Controlling the skies doesn't mean much if you aren't doing so well on the ground, neither is possible if you don't controll the seas... But we don't call everyone Marine, or roll all branches into the Navy. Although the ill informed do tend to refer to everyone on the ground as "soldier", that's not military doctrine. No sir, I don't like it.

Think of the ME maries like a series of naval ratings, kind of likethe seabees. Even though the Construction Batalion is made up of naval ratings, they're nor generally considered 'sailors'. Alliance marines are set up similarly. They're still within the rank structure of the Alliance, and their line officers cross-train and can eventually become COs of ships, much like Naval aviators can become the captains of aircraft carriers, but out of tradition, the ground combat ratings are refered to as marines. The marine platoons and companies are integral parts of each ship's crew and are most likely cross-trained so that they can serve a role on the ship even while not deployed into combat.

I'm not saying this is how I would do it, but this is how it is portrayed by the ME writers.

What your saying sounds like in the future the Marine Corps has become much closer to the Navy, vs today's version which for all practical intents and purposes is it's own branch and only technically still a corps of the Navy.

I DON'T LIKE IT mwahahaha!

[Bogsnot1]

Ship.wreck wrote...

Bogsnot1 wrote...
I have an idea. Get over it.
Its a fictional game, set in a fictional universe. Seriously, you people are becoming as pedantic as trekkies.
Whats next? Kenneth isnt actually scottish because he doesn't wander in a kilt around saying "Och aye, laddie!"?

That's
good advice. But this is what happens when you write a halfway decent
story and market it to nerds like myself. In fact you wouldn't be on
this forum if you weren't just as nerdily interested in debating these
nerdy topics.

I used to live with a trekkie, Ive had enough of these sorts of debates to last me a lifetime thanks. That guy made me wish the gene pool was self chlorinating.

Praetor Shepard wrote...

Bogsnot1 wrote...
Whats next? Kenneth isnt actually scottish because he doesn't wander in a kilt around saying "Och aye, laddie!"?

I just want to hear him say, "I'm giving her all she's got Captain!"
At least once.

"She cannae take any mooorre Skipper, she'll blow.."

Hang on, we still talking about Mass Effect here?

[Bluko]

Would have been nice if Alliance Uniforms had been a little more thought-out. Of course Bioware has a noted tendency to get a bit lazy and re-use skins/models for stuff. I believe Pressly and Anderson uniforms are correct where as the Admirals kind of just got copy and pasted. Wish Bioware could have put that extra tiny bit of effort in to have uniforms thought out. But it's not a big deal since pretty much every Sci-Fi botches military uniforms.

Although Star Wars did a pretty good job up until Return of the Jedi sadly.

Also we can't be certain 100% the Shoulder Stripes are a denotion of Rank. Although that seems counter-intuitive to most fleets protocol.

As for Armor; Alliance Soldiers don't wear any kind of standard issue armor. It does seem a little odd there isn't at least a color scheme, but I imagine companies are constantly bidding for contracts. So they probably get lots of variation in equipment. Also they probably outfit soldiers for more specified tasks so that's probably why armor varies so much. That said the Alliance probably doesn't use a specific color, simply because in the future it's pointless since you'll have totally electronic forms of identification. Also due to the number of worlds and environments there isn't really much point in having one camo scheme.

[Ship.wreck_]

SandTrout wrote...

Things that break immersion are calling enlisted members officers and commissioned members enlisted, or someone so physically crippled that they can barely walk without breaking a leg, let alone assist in the emergency repair of a hull breach or fight a fire getting accepted for military service. The issue here is the people making the skins slipped up, or only had time to make a few skins, and not a different one for every rank. Even for those of us who were in the military, this is not something that bothers us overly much, if we even noticed. This is really an insignificant detail that's getting picked at only because people are impatient waiting for ME3 to come out.

I find it hard to believe that, in a future where an entire human can be genetically engineered from near scratch with every detail of physical appearence and personality and capability explicitly controlled (Miranda), they still can't cure Joker's genetic disease, or any genetic disease for that matter. Seriously, that doesn't make any sense. And even if they hadn't mastered genetic engineering to this level, you'd think they'd at least be able to make some kind of exoskeleton for him, or bone replacement surgery. We replace hips in old people all the time TODAY. And add on top of all that, that they can completely rebuild a human body that's been subject to the vacuum of space, and possible more. Yeah, I'm not buying the inability to cure whatever ails Joker.

Jocker should have been fully capable of kicking some major ass during the boarding of the Normandy, and done so.

[thepiebaker]

uzivatel wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Let's start with the Armor.
Appearantly the Alliance just uses the same Armor models everyone else in the galaxy, with no Symbols or anything to denote rank, it's not difference to any other armor except for that it is painted grey...  ....But what about the Marines on Zakara ward, they wear white and purple armor, oh crap! what is happening?

Soldiers deployed on different planets use different armour colours? Thats not exactly surprising - most armies have multiple camo patterns depending on the enviroment (or even time of year). Sometimes different branches of one army use different camo patterns even in the same enviroment.
As for ranks, afaik snipers love anything that allows them to recognize officers.

In ME days, most of the armies probably use some in-helmet IFF system anyway.

my first thoughts exactly

[Ship.wreck_]

Bogsnot1 wrote...
I used to live with a trekkie, Ive had enough of these sorts of debates to last me a lifetime thanks. That guy made me wish the gene pool was self chlorinating.

According to the theory of evolution it is! Mwahahahaha! Maybe your trekkie roomie will win a Darwin Award yet, and if all else fails you can cross your fingers and just hope he doesn't get laid before he dies of old age, although, not that unlikely a scenario.

In fact that might be eligible for a Darwin Award...

[Praetor Knight]

Bogsnot1 wrote...

Praetor Shepard wrote...

Bogsnot1 wrote...
Whats next? Kenneth isnt actually scottish because he doesn't wander in a kilt around saying "Och aye, laddie!"?

I just want to hear him say, "I'm giving her all she's got Captain!"
At least once.

"She cannae take any mooorre Skipper, she'll blow.."

Hang on, we still talking about Mass Effect here?

I like it when Sci Fi has those tip of the hat moments, Scotty was awesome, James Doohan and Simon Pegg were great and listening to Ken the first time in ME2 reminded me of Scotty so I thought it would be neat to have him say a line like that.