591 réponses à ce sujet

[Cyberfrog81]

cruc1al wrote...

5. Will the squadmates hold the line?
     Pick two out of the three following Defenders to leave behind = [Survived!]
     ../../../uploads_user/945000/944217/110828.jpg../../../uploads_user/945000/944217/110831.jpg
     ../../../uploads_user/945000/944217/110828.jpg../../../uploads_user/945000/944217/110844.jpg
     ../../../uploads_user/945000/944217/110828.jpg../../../uploads_user/945000/944217/110830.jpg

    ../../../uploads_user/945000/944217/110829.jpg Any other combination = [Death] (Or is it?) (Priority List - unloyal squadmates die before loyal ones)

Does this mean that picking all three may result in someone dying?

No, that's not what it means. "Keep at least 2 of the strongest defenders on the Line" is a good rule of thumb, but in special circumstances you need hold-the-line math (or my suicide mission tool [shameless plug]).

If the hold-the-line score < 2, someone dies.

Modifié par Cyberfrog81, 10 août 2011 - 12:44 .

[cruc1al]

Then the Original Post is incorrect and should be revised. It is confusing. It clearly said that two of the strongest defenders will keep the rest alive. It is further said that the hold-the-line math you're referring to is, I quote, "for those interested in orchestrating specific outcomes requiring deaths of various squadmates." I did not require the death of a squad mate, I required the survival of everyone, and keeping the strongest defenders holding the line should've been enough.

[Cyberfrog81]

Fair enough. Either way there's no way around it: If you want everyone to survive the hold-the-line part, you need to get the htl score to >= 2

[Pacifien]

Right, so the part about the defenders/HtL stuff is updated to reflect the necessity of a 2.0 score.

[Fraxure]

Nice guide for the suicide mission, now I can get that achievement.

[WashclothRepairMan]

I'm trying to kill unloyal Jacob, Grunt and Legion (I'm getting ME3 imports ready and seeing if not doing the loyalty missions at all has an effect, I think it will) and a loyal Kasumi, will this work?

No Shield, Legion dies
Kasumi in pipes, Zaeed as team leader, Kasumi dies
Jacob leads second fireteam and dies
Mordin Escorts crew, both survive
Bring Zaeed and Garrus to Larva, Tali(L), Jack(L), Miranda(L), Thane(L), Samara(L) and Grunt (NL) Hold the line, Grunt dies.

[Cyberfrog81]

Yeah, seems like a good plan. Of course you know to bring Kasumi to the Oculus and to use Jack or Samara as the biotic.

[BartoszJ91]

I couldn't find my situation in this thread. I have a save just before going through Omega 4 but I completed all possible quests before so abducted crew dies. Is it possible to edit file and rescue them all as if I went through relay immediately after abduction?

[Sic Semper Tyrana]

BartoshOsiek wrote...

I couldn't find my situation in this thread. I have a save just before going through Omega 4 but I completed all possible quests before so abducted crew dies. Is it possible to edit file and rescue them all as if I went through relay immediately after abduction?

If you play on the PC version, sure. It's highly recommended to keep multiple save files next time though.

[BartoszJ91]

Yes, I play on the PC version. I didn't expect that I should really hurry to rescue them, because usually in games we have infinite time for completing quests. Could anyone tell me how can I edit this file?

[Ygolnac]

now i understand why in one of my playthrough mordin dies in the "hold the line" part!

[Hallusinaatti]

Thanks to this guide I killed off the dangerous elements of my party when they were no longer useful to me: Jack, Legion and Grunt.

[ElectronicPostingInterface]

 Does this setup, considering the addition of Kasumi/url] still work with Thane and Mornith?

Doing a worst possible import run. Thanks.

Think I've figured it out myself: my attempt using the flowchart, with Kasumi installed.

Thane not recruited.

Jack [Loyal]
Garrus [Loyal]
Legion [Loyal]
Grunt [Loyal]
Samara/Mornith [Non-Loyal; Will Do Mission Post SM]
Jacob [Non-Loyal; Never Will Do Mission]
Mordin [Loyal]
Tali [Non-Loyal; Gave Evidence]
Kasumi [Loyal]
Miranda [Non-Loyal; Sided With Jack]
Zaeed [Non-Loyal; Didn't Do Mission Yet]

Do 4 missions before Omega-4 Relay.

Don't upgrade armor for Normandy. Jack dies.

10 remain: Garrus, Legion, Grunt, S/M, Jacob, Mordin. Tali, Kasumi,Miranda, Zaeed

Don't upgrade shields. Take anyone but Kasumi to fight Oculus.

Kasumi dies.

9 remain: Garrus, Legion. Grunt, S/M, Jacob, Mordin. Tali, Miranda,Zaeed

Don't upgrade weapons. Garrus dies.

8 remain: Legion, Grunt, S/M, Jacob, Mordin, Tali, Miranda, Zaeed

Vent Candidates: Mordin, Thane, Tali, Kasumi, Garrus, Jacob, Legion.

Send Mordin in the vents. Fire team doesn't matter. Mordin dies.

7 remain: Legion, Grunt, S/M, Jacob, Tali, Miranda, Zaeed

Seeker swarm. Pick Miranda. Don't take Legion with you, but Grunt. Grunt should die.
 
6 remain: Legion, S/M, Jacob, Tali, Miranda, Zaeed

2nd fire team leader is Legion. Legion dies. 

5 remain: S/M, Jacob, Tali, Miranda, Zaeed

Don't escort.

5 remain: S/M, Jacob, Tali, Miranda, Zaeed

Fight the final boss: Jacob and Miranda. Both un-loyal, both die.

S/M, Tali, Zaeed.

0 + 3 + 1 = 4, 1.3. Tali dies.

Recruit Thane.

Do Zaeed loyalty quest. Kill Zaeed.

Do Samara loyalty quest. Kill Samara, take in Mornith.

Do Thane loyalty quest.

Thane and Mornith only two survivors.

Modifié par PKchu, 20 septembre 2011 - 09:58 .

[TurianRenegade]

I just finished the game on Hardcore. I was worried because I had lost Legion's loyalty by siding with Tali during their argument due to not having my alignment at 100%, while everyone else was loyal. Fortunately, that didn't matter as I beat the game with everyone having survived and I was finally able to score the No One Left Behind achievement.

Legion & Tali helped me fight off the Oculus and once we landed on the Collector ship, I used Tali as my vent tech and Miranda as the 1st fire team leader and used Legion & Thane in my squad.

When it came to the Long Walk, Mordin escorted the crew back to the ship while Jack served as the biotic specialist for the barrier. Miranda again served as the 2nd fire team leader and I kept Legion & Thane in my squad.

When it came to the final battle, I took Jack & Thane with me while everyone else held the line.

Needless to say, I was on edge the entire time because I wasn't sure if Legion was going to be killed but I did a happy dance when I realized he was alive and well.

[Skullt3n]

Sorry to beat a dead horse, but let me run this by for Hold the Line.

Assumptions:
-Kasumi and Zaeed exist
-Omega 4 relay immediately to save crew 100%
-Legion only disloyal SM as a result of immediate Omega 4
-Escort = Tier 3
-HTL... score is based on # of SM's actually Holding [9 to choose from after Boss SM decided]

-HTL Team: 3 (L) Tier 1, 2 (L) + 1 (D) Tier 2, 3 (L) Tier 3 = 20 = All Survive
-Boss Team: 2 (L) Tier 2 = All Survive

This is the strongest Boss team I can utilize yet still have my entire team survive, correct? I am not missing some silly detail?
I can of course substitute (L) Tier 2 for (L) Tier 3 [only would increase my HTL score], but I'm hoping to bring two of the Biotic Tier 2's with me for the boss fight [I'm a Widow Infiltrator].

[rekn2]

whats the factors for having the 2 that go with you to fight the human reaper? my miranda is L and she dies from the pillar falling on her

[rekn2]

nm, i think i figured the problem, i pissed her and zaeed off and they dont have the red rings on their feet like the others do in squad select. used some one else and everyone made it! thanks to those that put this guide together!

[Darth Death]

I managed to only have Miranda & Garrus at the end of the suicide mission. I didn't see this under "Orchestrate a Certain Outcome", so if anyone is curious how its done, then here it is:

1. Make sure you don't upgrade anything.

2. Do both Miranda & Garrus loyalty missions. OPTIONAL: You can also do Jacks & Tali loyalty missions too for more paragon and renegade points, but on Tali's LM make sure she's non-loyal to you by exposing the evidence.

3. Sell Legion.


Suicide Mission:

Jacks death= No armor upgrades

Kasumi death= No shield upgrade

Thane death= No weapon upgrade

Jacob death= Collector vents

The crew & Dr. Chakwas death= No escort

Zaeed death= Second fireteam

Grunts death= Miranda as biotic specialists (NOTE: make sure Garris isn't with you during the seeker swarm fight)

Now you should only have Garris, Samara, Tali, Mordin, & Miranda left. Take Garris & Samara with you to fight the human reaper and leave the rest to hold the line. Samara will die at the end of the fight, while Tali and Mordin will die holding the line (except for Miranda).

Apologies in advance if someone has done this already...

[Arcling]

So, I'm planning to have this outcome: Kasumi and Zaeed but only with minor alteration: I want to kill both Samara and Morinth. So if I kill Samara during her loyalty mission and get Morinth is this outcome still possible (with only Zaeed and Kasumi surviving suicide mission)? Is it possible to make Morinth leading the second fire time and dying?

My plan is to get this with doing everyone's loyalty mission and not doing any upgrades for Normandy:
Loyal squadmates: Morinth, Kasumi, Zaeed, Jacob, Grunt, Garrus, Mordin, Jack, Legion
Non-loyal squadmates: Miranda, Tali, Thane
Normandy Upgrades: None
Chakwas & Crew: All dead or just Dr.Chakwas
Before the Omega-4 Relay
- Side with Jack during the Jack/Miranda argument
- Side with Legion during the Tali/Legion argument
- Mess Thane's loyalty mission by not updating on his target
- Do side missions after crew abduction if you want some or all of the crew to die (except Chakwas)
- Bring Kasumi and Thane to Oculus fight (so Legion and Garrus will die)
Assignments
Vents - Jacob (dies)
Fire Team Leader - Any
Biotic - Thane (bring Tali and Grunt, Grunt will die)
Second Fire Team Leader - Morinth (dies)
Escort - Thane (dies)
Final boss squadmates - Zaeed and Kasumi
Distraction Team - Miranda, Tali, Mordin (only Mordin will be loyal, will they all die?)

Deaths, before landing
Jack - No Armor Upgrade, gets lasered
Legion - No Shield Upgrade, incinerated
Garrus - No Weapons Upgrade, impaled

Deaths, after landing
Jacob - Died by rocket to face
Grunt - Died by seeker swarm
Morinth - Died while closing second door
Thane - Died escorting the crew
Tali - Died holding the line
Miranda - Died holding the line
Mordin - Died holding the line

Final squadmates: only Zaeed and Kasumi surviving (and dr Chakwas - optional).
I also wonder if can ignore escorting the crew (so Chakwas will die as well) and keep Thane to die during hold the line but I'm not sure if defense score will be too high then and someone from htl might survive.

Modifié par Arcling, 04 novembre 2011 - 02:04 .

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Arcling wrote...

So, I'm planning to have this outcome: Kasumi and Zaeed but only with minor alteration: I want to kill both Samara and Morinth. So if I kill Samara during her loyalty mission and get Morinth is this outcome still possible (with only Zaeed and Kasumi surviving suicide mission)? Is it possible to make Morinth leading the second fire time and dying?

My plan is to get this with doing everyone's loyalty mission and not doing any upgrades for Normandy:
Loyal squadmates: Morinth, Kasumi, Zaeed, Jacob, Grunt, Garrus, Mordin, Jack, Legion
Non-loyal squadmates: Miranda, Tali, Thane
Normandy Upgrades: None
Chakwas & Crew: All dead or just Dr.Chakwas
Before the Omega-4 Relay
- Side with Jack during the Jack/Miranda argument
- Side with Legion during the Tali/Legion argument
- Mess Thane's loyalty mission by not updating on his target
- Do side missions after crew abduction if you want some or all of the crew to die (except Chakwas)
- Bring Kasumi and Thane to Oculus fight (so Legion and Garrus will die)
Assignments
Vents - Jacob (dies)
Fire Team Leader - Any
Biotic - Thane (bring Tali and Grunt, Grunt will die)
Second Fire Team Leader - Morinth (dies)
Escort - Thane (dies)
Final boss squadmates - Zaeed and Kasumi
Distraction Team - Miranda, Tali, Mordin (only Mordin will be loyal, will they all die?)

Deaths, before landing
Jack - No Armor Upgrade, gets lasered
Legion - No Shield Upgrade, incinerated
Garrus - No Weapons Upgrade, impaled

Deaths, after landing
Jacob - Died by rocket to face
Grunt - Died by seeker swarm
Morinth - Died while closing second door
Thane - Died escorting the crew
Tali - Died holding the line
Miranda - Died holding the line
Mordin - Died holding the line

Final squadmates: only Zaeed and Kasumi surviving (and dr Chakwas - optional).
I also wonder if can ignore escorting the crew (so Chakwas will die as well) and keep Thane to die during hold the line but I'm not sure if defense score will be too high then and someone from htl might survive.

Bringing Thane to fight the oculus won't change him dying due to no cannon upgrade, he'll still be the one to get impaled. The only death the oculus fight can save is those in the shield upgrade list. (listed in order of death... kasumi, legion, tali, etc..

Also... Thane can't be the biotic AND the escort, but that is easily rectified with Miranda being the biotic 

For the final battle you want Zaeed and Miranda there... that way Miranda dies. Kasumi, Mordin and Tali holding the line will ensure the latter 2 die leaving you with just Zaeed and Kasumi

The key issue you have is down to the Garrus and Thane switch. The obvious solution is to not do Garrus loyalty mission. Either that or don't do Jacob's and have Garrus as Vent runner and Jacob as escort.

The one other stickly point imho is Morinth because I've had and heard of instances where her being there has caused a fire team leader to survive even with the required number of squadmates going into the final battle already being accounted for without them but in theory with the changes I've suggested it should work out as  you want it to. I did something similar in my 'Worse playthrough' although I had an unloyal Samara (as I messed up her loyalty quest).

[Arcling]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...
Bringing Thane to fight the oculus won't change him dying due to no cannon upgrade, he'll still be the one to get impaled. The only death the oculus fight can save is those in the shield upgrade list. (listed in order of death... kasumi, legion, tali, etc..

Thanks for making it clear. I wasn't sure if it means he can survive.

Also... Thane can't be the biotic AND the escort, but that is easily rectified with Miranda being the biotic 

I was thinking of not sending anyone for the escort but maybe that makes defense score way too high.

For the final battle you want Zaeed and Miranda there... that way Miranda dies. Kasumi, Mordin and Tali holding the line will ensure the latter 2 die leaving you with just Zaeed and Kasumi

So Miranda can't die holding the line? Should Mordin be loyal to hold the line or not?

The key issue you have is down to the Garrus and Thane switch. The obvious solution is to not do Garrus loyalty mission. Either that or don't do Jacob's and have Garrus as Vent runner and Jacob as escort.

I figured I could kill Garrus during walk with the biotic as even loyal member can die there and Grunt by leading second team.

The one other stickly point imho is Morinth because I've had and heard of instances where her being there has caused a fire team leader to survive even with the required number of squadmates going into the final battle already being accounted for without them but in theory with the changes I've suggested it should work out as  you want it to. I did something similar in my 'Worse playthrough' although I had an unloyal Samara (as I messed up her loyalty quest).

So Morinth may create sort of bug? Didn't know that, thought she could be killed as fire team leader. Guess I'll just mess Samara's loyalty mission.

Also, can I skip escort and still have only 2 squadmembers alive (to have Chakwas killed).

To put this short I have idea:
-Skip Grunt's loyalty mission.
-Send Grunt as escort to die.
-Garrus dies with seeker swarm.
-Samara/Morinth dies leading the team.

Modifié par Arcling, 08 novembre 2011 - 11:52 .

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Arcling wrote...

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...
Bringing Thane to fight the oculus won't change him dying due to no cannon upgrade, he'll still be the one to get impaled. The only death the oculus fight can save is those in the shield upgrade list. (listed in order of death... kasumi, legion, tali, etc..

Thanks for making it clear. I wasn't sure if it means he can survive.

Also... Thane can't be the biotic AND the escort, but that is easily rectified with Miranda being the biotic 

I was thinking of not sending anyone for the escort but maybe that makes defense score way too high.

For the final battle you want Zaeed and Miranda there... that way Miranda dies. Kasumi, Mordin and Tali holding the line will ensure the latter 2 die leaving you with just Zaeed and Kasumi

So Miranda can't die holding the line? Should Mordin be loyal to hold the line or not?

The key issue you have is down to the Garrus and Thane switch. The obvious solution is to not do Garrus loyalty mission. Either that or don't do Jacob's and have Garrus as Vent runner and Jacob as escort.

I figured I could kill Garrus during walk with the biotic as even loyal member can die there and Grunt by leading second team.

The one other stickly point imho is Morinth because I've had and heard of instances where her being there has caused a fire team leader to survive even with the required number of squadmates going into the final battle already being accounted for without them but in theory with the changes I've suggested it should work out as  you want it to. I did something similar in my 'Worse playthrough' although I had an unloyal Samara (as I messed up her loyalty quest).

So Morinth may create sort of bug? Didn't know that, thought she could be killed as fire team leader. Guess I'll just mess Samara's loyalty mission.

Also, can I skip escort and still have only 2 squadmembers alive (to have Chakwas killed).

To put this short I have idea:
-Skip Grunt's loyalty mission.
-Send Grunt as escort to die.
-Garrus dies with seeker swarm.
-Samara/Morinth dies leading the team.

The only way Chakwas can die is if you don't use an escort and with everyone recruited it's real tricky to work that out if you are just wanting Zaeed and Kasumi alive at the end (key point here being Kasumi as she is one of the lowbies)

When I actually did my Zaeed and Kasumi only playthrough I did actually do it different to that one which I listed in the post you linked because I made it a 'worse playthrough' scenario and so certain changes were made.

If you still want both Morinth and Samara dead, your going to have to Chakwas surviving. To avoid bug simply just kill Morinth during the loyalty mission, Samara doesn't cause any suicide mission bugs and if they both going to die its a bit irrelevant in which order they die. To some extent even if you messed up Samara's mission, to not have Chakwas surviving, really speaking you'd need to avoid recruiting someone... the obvious answer being Legion, either sending him to Cerberus or just not-activating him. Anyway below is an example I have using your current requirements.

Non-Loyal
Miranda (side with Jack), Tali (side with Legion), Grunt (don't do mission)
Everyone else loyal.

Ship Deaths
Jack - No armor upgrade
Legion - No shield upgrade (take Kasumi to fight Oculus)
Thane - No cannon upgrade

Mission Deaths
Garrus - Rocket to face
Jacob - Swarmed (Miranda as biotic, Kasumi as other squadmate)
Samara/Morinth - Fire team leader
Grunt - Escorting the crew
Miranda - Final battle with Zaeed as other squadmate
Tali & Mordin - Holding the line with Kasumi (average score of 0.6 = 2 squadmates die, Tali and Mordin top of the list)

[Arcling]

Thanks again for the advice. I will do it with skipping Grunt's loyalty and Chakwas surviving then. Killing Morinth during Samara's mission is also fine for me. Too bad they made it slightly bugged with Morinth though (but this game still has quite many glitches in some places anyway).

[Necrissa]

Problem here:
Im trying to replay the game saving everyone.
Unfortunately i couldn't get the paragon required to solve peacefully the Jack/Miranda conflict, so now Miranda is not loyal to me, tho she has the skills unlocked.

I have all the upgrades
I get all the crew to the final boss with no casualties.

Now, according to the flow chart if i leave Garrus, Grunt and/or Zaeed to defend, all my crew members will survive.
I take Thane and Samara on the Final fight and leave all the others ( the full squad, remember i got all the guys recruited and have no deaths till now) and still Miranda dies after i break the tubes and the larva reaper falls down ( i get a cut scene where Miranda lies on the ground, and its unclear how she died).

So im asking: is there a way i can save Miranda too, altho shes not loyal? What am i doing wrong ?

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Necrissa wrote...

Problem here:
Im trying to replay the game saving everyone.
Unfortunately i couldn't get the paragon required to solve peacefully the Jack/Miranda conflict, so now Miranda is not loyal to me, tho she has the skills unlocked.

I have all the upgrades
I get all the crew to the final boss with no casualties.

Now, according to the flow chart if i leave Garrus, Grunt and/or Zaeed to defend, all my crew members will survive.
I take Thane and Samara on the Final fight and leave all the others ( the full squad, remember i got all the guys recruited and have no deaths till now) and still Miranda dies after i break the tubes and the larva reaper falls down ( i get a cut scene where Miranda lies on the ground, and its unclear how she died).

So im asking: is there a way i can save Miranda too, altho shes not loyal? What am i doing wrong ?

I'll wager you used one of the heavies as Escort, because accounting for all your other squadmates being loyal, that scenario with the 2 you took to the final battle would leave you with a score of 1.7 which means a squadmate dies and thus as Miranda would be the only non-loyal she's first in line for the chop.

Going on basis of you for example send Zaeed as Escort.

That leaves you with Grunt, Garrus, Jacob, Legion, Jack, Kasumi, Tali, Mordin and Miranda on door defence giving you 17pts with 9 people on door defence.

There is however another resolution to this if by chance you had a save just before the final battle. Swap out Thane or Samara for the final battle replacing them with either Kasumi, Jack, Tali or Mordin. That'll give you 18pts for 9 squadmates = average score of 2 and Miranda survives... or you just use someone other than a heavy as escort and ensure all 3 of them are on door defence.