301 réponses à ce sujet

[Aeowyn]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Paragon/Renegade analogies break down further when you start to realize that Udina, the Renegade aligned politician, has never been shown or depicted to do anything more violent than a shove, while Anderson is repeatedly depicted as a war-hero badass who relishes punching certain politicians.

Udina, the Renegade, is the compromiser who's better and more interested at maintaining good relations to humanity's own benefit. Anderson, the Paragon, is depicted as keeping Udina around to clean up those sorts of messes.

Andersson isn't a politician, therefore he doesn't really understand the whole diplomacy thing. He hasn't studied Citadel politics and is only there becacuse Shepard didn't feel like putting another politician on the Council. This is also one of the reasons why he keeps getting pushed down by the other Councillors (my theory at least).

I put Udina on the Council and I don't understand why that's the renegade choice. He's a born politician and understand human interests.

I also agree that the Ascension does not make sense when it comes to military forces. The turians had the largest scale of ships protecting the Citadel so their loss of numbers is understandable. However, they are a military race and even if they're "weakened" I doubt they're so weak they can't come back from that.

That said, I still believe the salarians are the biggest threat.

[Xilizhra]

Paragon/Renegade analogies break down further when you start to realize that Udina, the Renegade aligned politician, has never been shown or depicted to do anything more violent than a shove, while Anderson is repeatedly depicted as a war-hero badass who relishes punching certain politicians.

The Renegade will have more peaceful conversations with Zaeed, Archer and that paranoid speciesist volus. Violence alone doesn't determine status, it's what you use it for.

What asspect do you think is likely to express itself in this species' overall culture once it grows and advances to the point of space travel?

Sapience is a wonderful thing. Is it not possible that both tribes will agree to limit their own populations so that they can both live in the valley until more resources are found? The only species I can see actually doing this is the asari, but it's possible.

It'd also be possible for a species to not have tribal divisions at all, seeing every member of their own species as part of the same tribe. Heck, the same could be true of their attitudes towards an entire planet, akin to Avatar, though that necessitates a planetary hive mind or something similar.

[Zulu_DFA]

Asheer_Khan wrote...

Truth to be told... killing original Council and seizing lead power of new council by humans only gives green light for Hierarhy to declare dreadnought limiting treaty as non existed and thier shipyards start to work on four shifts to biuld new ones... and belive me NOT to repell incoming Reapers... but finish what they started on Shanxi.

Ha-ha! That's right. They got his ass kicked on Shanxi, but it was just the beginning!

Their new shiny dreadnoughts will just make a heluva fireworks, when swarmed by packs of Alliance fighters, hit from behind by the Normandy-class frigates, and blown up from within by the E.D.I.s

[Dean_the_Young]

Xilizhra wrote...

Paragon/Renegade analogies break down further when you start to realize that Udina, the Renegade aligned politician, has never been shown or depicted to do anything more violent than a shove, while Anderson is repeatedly depicted as a war-hero badass who relishes punching certain politicians.

The Renegade will have more peaceful conversations with Zaeed, Archer and that paranoid speciesist volus. Violence alone doesn't determine status, it's what you use it for.

Indeed. The analogy is defunct.

Sapience is a wonderful thing. Is it not possible that both tribes will agree to limit their own populations so that they can both live in the valley until more resources are found? The only species I can see actually doing this is the asari, but it's possible.

In general, societies that have tried to regulate sex to that extent, have failed. Evolution has a strong interest in making reproduction irresistable. (And fun.)

Or, in the worse cases, societies that have tried have established many of the institutions of a police state that are available and regularly put to absue.


(That all said, the Asari don't practice population limitation, while the Salarians do.)

It'd also be possible for a species to not have tribal divisions at all, seeing every member of their own species as part of the same tribe. Heck, the same could be true of their attitudes towards an entire planet, akin to Avatar, though that necessitates a planetary hive mind or something similar.

Avatar is a rather horrible example of evolution, for a number of reasons. (The far more plausible theory that Pandora itself is a genetically-engineered bio-sphere computer of sorts being the more rational explanation for results.)

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 29 janvier 2011 - 03:08 .

[Xilizhra]

In general, societies that have tried to regulate sex to that extent, have failed. Evolution has a strong interest in making reproduction irresistable. (And fun.)

And asari can control their own fertility. There would be no need for any kind of lockdown on sex. Also, evolution has no interest in anything, not being a force with any kind of mind.

Avatar is a rather horrible example of evolution, for a number of reasons. (The far more plausible theory that Pandora itself is a genetically-engineered bio-sphere computer of sorts being the more rational explanation for results.)

It's unlikely, but it's just an example. There are other possible ways of going about things.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 29 janvier 2011 - 03:10 .

[Asheer_Khan]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Asheer_Khan wrote...

Truth to be told... killing original Council and seizing lead power of new council by humans only gives green light for Hierarhy to declare dreadnought limiting treaty as non existed and thier shipyards start to work on four shifts to biuld new ones... and belive me NOT to repell incoming Reapers... but finish what they started on Shanxi.

Ha-ha! That's right. They got his ass kicked on Shanxi, but it was just the beginning!

Their new shiny dreadnoughts will just make a heluva fireworks, when swarmed by packs of Alliance fighters, hit from behind by the Normandy-class frigates, and blown up from within by the E.D.I.s

Dream on <_<

[Sajuro]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Asheer_Khan wrote...

Truth to be told... killing original Council and seizing lead power of new council by humans only gives green light for Hierarhy to declare dreadnought limiting treaty as non existed and thier shipyards start to work on four shifts to biuld new ones... and belive me NOT to repell incoming Reapers... but finish what they started on Shanxi.

Ha-ha! That's right. They got his ass kicked on Shanxi, but it was just the beginning!

Their new shiny dreadnoughts will just make a heluva fireworks, when swarmed by packs of Alliance fighters, hit from behind by the Normandy-class frigates, and blown up from within by the E.D.I.s

Unless of course they glass our planets.

[armass]

Human dominance... pfff... Dream on...

Modifié par armass, 29 janvier 2011 - 03:30 .

[Wulfram]

Ah yes, "Human dominance".  We have dismissed that claim.

[Zulu_DFA]

Sajuro wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Asheer_Khan wrote...

Truth to be told... killing original Council and seizing lead power of new council by humans only gives green light for Hierarhy to declare dreadnought limiting treaty as non existed and thier shipyards start to work on four shifts to biuld new ones... and belive me NOT to repell incoming Reapers... but finish what they started on Shanxi.

Ha-ha! That's right. They got his ass kicked on Shanxi, but it was just the beginning!

Their new shiny dreadnoughts will just make a heluva fireworks, when swarmed by packs of Alliance fighters, hit from behind by the Normandy-class frigates, and blown up from within by the E.D.I.s

Unless of course they glass our planets.

Sure, although I doubt that after their new shiny dreadnoughts are
swarmed by packs of Alliance fighters, hit from behind by the
Normandy-class frigates, and blown up from within by the E.D.I.s, the Turians will have anything to glass our planets with. You know it's true, and it makes you angry!

[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/joyful.png[/smilie]

[JonteTheGod]

Strugz wrote...

Oh dear the anti human comments from HUMANS makes me sick , you have no belief in your own species? We have done bad things to ourselves , but the grand Turians had a giant war with themselves , the krogan have , the Salarians commited genocide , the Quarians tryed to commit genocide , doesnt make us look so bad now , does it?

Have faith. We humans are capable of greatness and they all know it  www.youtube.com/watch 

Modifié par JonteTheGod, 29 janvier 2011 - 03:55 .

[Asheer_Khan]

Strugz wrote...

Oh dear the anti human comments from HUMANS makes me sick , you have no belief in your own species? We have done bad things to ourselves , but the grand Turians had a giant war with themselves , the krogan have , the Salarians commited genocide , the Quarians tryed to commit genocide , doesnt make us look so bad now , does it?

Sorry but when you live one hour from place which is nothing more than one of the biggest graveyards in humanity history (aka Aushwitz/Birkenau complex) you can easy lost faith that humans ARE capable to change... OR how quick we can change from compasionable and carry people in to pure monsters... but someone who live in a country which NEVER EVER suffer true horrors of war will NEVER understand what war really is...

[Dean_the_Young]

That's it? You live close to a place where bad things happened? And here I was wondering if you were someone in their 80's or 90's, to have lived and been cognizant of WW2. Or, I suppose, have been deployed to Soviet Afghanistan back in the 80's.



Unless you've been in a war, you've never suffered the true horrors of war either, and you got jack **** grounds to pull the 'experience' card on something you know from a museum and history books, just like everyone else.

[Sajuro]

Strugz wrote...

Oh dear the anti human comments from HUMANS makes me sick , you have no belief in your own species? We have done bad things to ourselves , but the grand Turians had a giant war with themselves , the krogan have , the Salarians commited genocide , the Quarians tryed to commit genocide , doesnt make us look so bad now , does it?

With all of the Ethnic cleansing and genocide we have committed against ourselves, not to mention the countless wars which were fought over religious ideals, the civil wars that had plagued nearly every country, the fact that it was amazing at the time when America changed leaders without blood being shed in a revolution.
BTW, the Salarians didn't commit Genocide, they steadied the birth rates.

[Aedan_Cousland]

Turians.

They have the largest fleet in the galaxy. Before the battle of the Citadel they had 3 Dreadnoughts for every one that the humans fielded. Even with the losses at the Citadel, they still probably outnumber the humans by a significant margin.

[Zulu_DFA]

Asheer_Khan wrote...

Strugz wrote...

Oh dear the anti human comments from HUMANS makes me sick , you have no belief in your own species? We have done bad things to ourselves , but the grand Turians had a giant war with themselves , the krogan have , the Salarians commited genocide , the Quarians tryed to commit genocide , doesnt make us look so bad now , does it?

Sorry but when you live one hour from place which is nothing more than one of the biggest graveyards in humanity history (aka Aushwitz/Birkenau complex) you can easy lost faith that humans ARE capable to change... OR how quick we can change from compasionable and carry people in to pure monsters... but someone who live in a country which NEVER EVER suffer true horrors of war will NEVER understand what war really is... [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/pouty.png[/smilie]

How does this tirade translates into suggesting that the Turians should go to an all-out war, that'd devastate the entire Citadel Space, in response to the Humans' achieving dominance by political, diplomatic, economic, cultural, and just a little bit of black ops means?

[didymos1120]

Asheer_Khan wrote...

...but someone who live in a country which NEVER EVER suffer true horrors of war will NEVER understand what war really is...

Which country is that?

[In Exile]

The asari - they have the most insidious and creepiest way to defeat humanity: breed us into extinction.

[SandTrout]

Xilizhra wrote...
Sapience is a wonderful thing. Is it not possible that both tribes will agree to limit their own populations so that they can both live in the valley until more resources are found? The only species I can see actually doing this is the asari, but it's possible.

Ok, lets assume that tribes A and B mutually agree to a limited population within their valley. Meanwhile, C and D fight, one gets ejected, and finds the A and B's valley. Desperate for food, tribe C attacks and drives out both A and B. Or, D expandswithin its valley to the point that it needs to expand, and commences a war of conquest against A and B in order to secure more territory for its people to exapand. The end result is the same. A wholesale lack of agressiveness results in removal from the gene pool.

War is a result of economics, not sapience. And, no, the Asair are not trying to try to get everyone to get along. They are attempting a very subtle tactic of breeding their competetition into extinction. Every human, salarian, and turian with an Asari mate is one less breeding member of their respective species. I suspect that is at least one of the reasons for the Asari stigma toward 'purebloods'. There is no indication that the Asari are exhibiting 0 population growth, and it is very likely that they are not.

[Someone With Mass]

The biggest threat to humanity...is humanity itself.

[Xilizhra]

Ok, lets assume that tribes A and B mutually agree to a limited population within their valley. Meanwhile, C and D fight, one gets ejected, and finds the A and B's valley. Desperate for food, tribe C attacks and drives out both A and B. Or, D expandswithin its valley to the point that it needs to expand, and commences a war of conquest against A and B in order to secure more territory for its people to exapand. The end result is the same. A wholesale lack of agressiveness results in removal from the gene pool.

Or, C attacks and gets kicked out by A and B, and dies off due to its own aggressiveness. Or D attacks A and B, loses, and has its own position damaged by the war.

War is a result of economics, not sapience. And, no, the Asair are not trying to try to get everyone to get along. They are attempting a very subtle tactic of breeding their competetition into extinction. Every human, salarian, and turian with an Asari mate is one less breeding member of their respective species. I suspect that is at least one of the reasons for the Asari stigma toward 'purebloods'. There is no indication that the Asari are exhibiting 0 population growth, and it is very likely that they are not.

Honestly, this seems more like paranoia than anything else.

[SandTrout]

Why would A and B have any capability to fight back against C? They've never had to fight a war, and would therefor have no standing army, and likely no plans to form one. If they were prone to recognize the value of violence, one of them would have used this to their advantage over the other.

As for the Asari thing, it's not paranoia, it's a healthy suspicion of others' motives.

[Xilizhra]

It's not like they wouldn't have had to fight off wild animal attacks before (otherwise, C will need to spend time inventing weapons from scratch and won't know how to use them either). We can't really just assume that C will win, especially without supplies.



I don't think the asari are worth worrying about for now. Not only do I very much doubt that there's any kind of plan in mind to outbreed everyone else (and there's evidence that some of the pureblood prejudice comes from Ardat-Yakshi), it would take many, many years for it to work. They've been in contact with many other races for thousands of years, and their populations aren't in danger.

[Zulu_DFA]

SandTrout wrote...

As for the Asari thing, it's not paranoia, it's a healthy suspicion of others' motives.

Well, it' kinda look's like paranoia, as the population grouth isn't limited by the numder of actively breeding population members, but by the resources available to the population, which is usually not enough to sustain even a small fraction of the population if it breeds to its full capacity.

Plus, in the ME timeframe, there is definitely possibility to fully reproduce population artificially, should any such danger like you describe arise.

Plus the power of the species does not correspond with its numbers. And the Asari probably outnumber other races anyway. The Krogans thought they could outbreed the smarter races, look what happened to them.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 29 janvier 2011 - 08:37 .

[Strugz]

Turians can glass planets , since when?