60 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

Asari. Ever since a certain interview with Hudson where he said: 

"In Mass Effect, as a female Commander Shepard you could have
a romance with the female-looking yet asexual asari, Liara."

Which is grossely incorrect by the way. Disproven by the game's Codex itself which states

while asari have only one gender, they are not asexual like single-celled life—all asari are sexually female

So yeah...

And while some will want to say "But the Codex says Soverign was a geth flagship!" True the Codex was grossely incorrect in that manner. However that was because the only one who spoke and interacted with Soverign in any real capacity was Shepard and Co. Are we to believe Asari with whom the galaxy at large have been interacting with for thousands of years, have biological background on are somehow unable to tell if they're female or male? Or that there is some political benefit in them being known as females instead of genderless?

But...Liara said she's not exactly a woman!

Indeed she is not. Neither is Tali. That doesn't stop Tali from being female anymore than it stops Liara from being such. This also doesn't stop her from later on explaining that Asari do fulfill a female role. 

But she's monogendered!

Indeed the Asari are monogendered. Let's break the word down.

Mono

• combining form (usu. mon- before a vowel)

• One, alone, single.
• Chem. (forming names of compounds) containing one atom or group of a specified kind.

*The above is from the Can-Oxford dictory

Gendered

adjective of, relating to, or
determined by one's sex as expressed by social or cultural distinctions.

Indeed in Asari culture there is only one gender. Due to the fact that they have no males it's simply female. However without a seperate sex to compare themselves against the concept of "gender" means nothing to them because they're all the same thus male and female mean nothing to them. They're simply Asari. Not female/male like species with different genders. That doesn't stop them from being the female sex.

But...they don't need to have sex to reproduce!

Indeed they don't.

didymos1120 wrote...
They reproduce via parthenogenesis, which, yes, is a form of asexual reproduction, but which is also, by definition, a form of reproduction restricted to female organisms. 
And it's only asexual in the sense that no genetic material is actually
being exchanged. Read the Codex.  Pay attention to the dialogue. 

However that doesn't make them sexless. They're still females.

This was a poor explanation but I hope so people get where I was going with this.

And I'd appreciate if someone could help me make this poor OP better.

[Darthnemesis2]

I love you forever.

Ok, that sounded kinda stalkerish and creepy.

How about... great work!

Modifié par Darthnemesis2, 28 janvier 2011 - 04:38 .

[KainrycKarr]

Does it have a soft feminine voice? Does it have boobs?

Than, unless you are a very unfortunate fellow, it is, at the very least, aesthetically female. And if you are attracted to something that looks female, then most likely you are a straight male, or you are a lesbian female.



If Shep romances Liara, than that is a homosexual romance. Technically you can date it all you want, but it looks, walks, and sounds like a female, so there you have it. You can toy with the technicalities all you want.

Modifié par KainrycKarr, 28 janvier 2011 - 04:42 .

[AdmiralCheez]

I wonder if straight guys would still 'mance Liara if she looked like this:







Seems pretty non-gendered to me.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

I take that back. I don't think you're trolling. Sorry.

Modifié par Ramirez Wolfen, 28 janvier 2011 - 04:57 .

[marshalleck]

You're late to the party. This controversy ran out of steam well over a year ago.

[Ryzaki]

???

I wasn't aware I was trolling. *

Anyways I always found the whole Asari are female to be self-evident. Heck it was pretty obvious on the forums until the whole no "M/M options but F/F?" Double standard started becoming more blatant.

I'm only posting this not for the whole same sex options. This isn't even about that. Its about my frustration about Liara somehow not being female anymore.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 28 janvier 2011 - 04:46 .

[Keltoris]

marshalleck wrote...

You're late to the party. This controversy ran out of steam well over a year ago.

Thanks. I've tried to forget those days.

[jlb524]

Casey Hudson also said you could continue your ME1 romance in ME2 and thinks Liara is Tali (in the same interview I believe).....so, he's just BSing.

[AdmiralCheez]

Ramirez, she's not trolling. I know because I was there.

[Darthnemesis2]

marshalleck wrote...

You're late to the party. This controversy ran out of steam well over a year ago.

... except that its still alive and kicking *looks at m/m thread* Oh hey! There it is!!

Modifié par Darthnemesis2, 28 janvier 2011 - 04:51 .

[Ramirez Wolfen]

marshalleck wrote...

You're late to the party. This controversy ran out of steam well over a year ago.

I know. I just wanted to post this.

[gadna13]

Should you also mention that asexual species reproduce without the need or help from another parent? Pretty clear asari are definitely not asexual.

[marshalleck]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

You're late to the party. This controversy ran out of steam well over a year ago.

I know. I just wanted to post this.

I was talking to OP 

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Whoops

[MrDizazta]

I will say this now and I will say this again, it makes more sense for a race of alien females than a whole race of alien males. For the most part, Asari are mostly related to Earth mammals, as seen by bellybutton and breasts. We know Asari mate through their minds, but we don't know how the child is birthed. We can only assume that they birth their children live because to the bellybutton. So I ask you, does it make sense for a entire alien race to be male when males themselves cannot birth children?

Modifié par MrDizaztar, 28 janvier 2011 - 04:55 .

[Interactive Civilian]

Biological definition of male and female:



male - contributes the smaller gamete to sexual reproduction (sperm)

female - contributes the larger gamete to sexual reproduction (egg)



Beyond that nothing else matters and everything is species specific (e.g. genetics - in humans, XY is male and XX is female, but in birds, it is the opposite. The genetics aren't what matter, but merely the contribution to reproduction).



Isogametic organisms (organisms which produce gametes of the same size) have no gender and neither side can be considered male or female.



Asari do not take in gametes from their partner. Therefore, they are not undergoing sexual reproduction. Therefore they cannot be biologically considered female.



But, that is being biologically pedantic. I do agree with one of the ideas above that they are aesthetically "female". However, if we go that route, we have to accept that the decision to consider them female is arbitrary and not a biological distinction. If there were another species in the galaxy to which the Asari were more morphologically similar to their males, they would probably consider Asari to be aesthetically male.

[AdmiralCheez]

MrDizaztar wrote...

I will say this now and I will say this again, it makes more sense for a race of alien females than a whole race of alien males. For the most part, Asari are mostly related to Earth mammals, as seen by bellybutton and breasts. We know Asari mate through their minds, but we don't know how the child is birthed. We can only assume that they birth their children live because to the bellybutton. So I ask you, does it make sense for a entire alien race to be male when males themselves cannot birth children?

Copypasting myself again, reflecting on a race of "all-male" aliens:

"But what if these male aliens had evolved to be somewhat parasitic,
dropping their incredibly adaptive young inside another creature, like a
grackle lays its egg in someone else's nest?  These womb-hijacking
fellows would need an organ to deposit the "egg" inside the host.  Like a
pingas.

Technically, they have no gender."

[Infinite Legend_]

I still don't understand how they can have babies with other species, which would be completely Impossible (even with the explanation in game) it still doesn't make sense.

[MrDizazta]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

MrDizaztar wrote...

I will say this now and I will say this again, it makes more sense for a race of alien females than a whole race of alien males. For the most part, Asari are mostly related to Earth mammals, as seen by bellybutton and breasts. We know Asari mate through their minds, but we don't know how the child is birthed. We can only assume that they birth their children live because to the bellybutton. So I ask you, does it make sense for a entire alien race to be male when males themselves cannot birth children?

Copypasting myself again, reflecting on a race of "all-male" aliens:

"But what if these male aliens had evolved to be somewhat parasitic,
dropping their incredibly adaptive young inside another creature, like a
grackle lays its egg in someone else's nest?  These womb-hijacking
fellows would need an organ to deposit the "egg" inside the host.  Like a
pingas.

Technically, they have no gender."

Then what you are suggesting is technically a virus.  Also you are suggesting that they need another species to even produce offspring.  From what we know, Asari can in fact breed with other Asari.  All saying is it is more viable for a single species to be "female" than male.  We already have instances where such species exsist on Earth.

[MrDizazta]

Infinite Legend wrote...

I still don't understand how they can have babies with other species, which would be completely Impossible (even with the explanation in game) it still doesn't make sense.

Lets just say they don't exchange genetic code in the traditionial way.

[swenson]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

MrDizaztar wrote...

I will say this now and I will say this again, it makes more sense for a race of alien females than a whole race of alien males. For the most part, Asari are mostly related to Earth mammals, as seen by bellybutton and breasts. We know Asari mate through their minds, but we don't know how the child is birthed. We can only assume that they birth their children live because to the bellybutton. So I ask you, does it make sense for a entire alien race to be male when males themselves cannot birth children?

Copypasting myself again, reflecting on a race of "all-male" aliens:

"But what if these male aliens had evolved to be somewhat parasitic,
dropping their incredibly adaptive young inside another creature, like a
grackle lays its egg in someone else's nest?  These womb-hijacking
fellows would need an organ to deposit the "egg" inside the host.  Like a
pingas.

Technically, they have no gender."

...and now all I can think about is the aliens from Red vs. Blue.

"I don't mean to be rude, but I've got a missing girlfriend, a guy who's pregant, an idiot who thinks his pet just died, and our worst enemy is hanging out around our base. So I really, REALLY don't have time for this right now!"

[awkward silence]

"What was that part about the pregnant guy?"

"HE'S NOT PREGNANT!!!"


@Infinite Legend - element zero also doesn't exist in real life, mass relays don't exist, a lot of things don't exist or aren't possible in real life. We just have to assume that in the future, they really are possible, we just don't understand the science behind it yet.

[jlb524]

I think the issue is a lack of understanding the idea of a 'conceptual schema'. Humans, over time, have developed ways to label individuals of their own species both biologically and then socially. Our scientists divide up all life into either one of two categories, 'male' or 'female' based on certain physiological traits and reproductive purposes (like, having one type of genital over the other) even though not everyone necessarily falls into one of these categories (like, intersexed individuals). However, these rough guidelines are still used by most...scientists and non-scientists alike.

On top of that, we humans impose gender and roles to go along with that....'woman' and 'man' which dictates how you should act given your biological parts. When we humans encounter any other form of life in the galaxy, we will impose our notions of sex and gender on them. Therefore, we will label the asari as 'female' given their physiological similarities to human females.

The asari do not share our conceptual schema in regards to this or to anything else (as they have developed their own over thousands of years without dealing with dual-sexed species). They feel no need to label different sexes or genders amongst themselves as each of them can perform the same biological function when it comes to reproduction. As mentioned, they lack the concept of binary sex so the idea of being either a 'male' or a 'female' are completely foreign to them, as are any notions of gender. So I think it's understandable that an individual asari would be uncomfortable being labeled as either one or the other.

Look at it this way...if we encountered an alien species that had four 'genders' or 'sexes', would most humans be able to easily grasp the concept of being labeled into one of these four categories using the alien definitions? I doubt it.

So, to us humans, Liara is a 'female' even if she herself isn't comfortable with being thrown into that category, especially when categorizing her as such is used as a reason (by a Female Shepard or any other female) to limit her potential pick of mates.

To use the example of the aliens with four genders...imagine if they appeared (to us) to only have two genders (similar to our male and female) but they further differentiated on ear size. Thus, a male-looking alien with large ears would be a different gender than one with small ears and, let's say, they had a rule stating that only dissimilar ear sizes could mate. Imagine your frustration if you were a human female attracted to a male of this hypothetical species but he didn't want anything to do with you because your ears were small...just as his....you wouldn't understand what the problem was and may claim that ear size doesn't matter and you are not to be included in this 'small ear gender' category.   "But, why does my ear-size matter???"

Yeah...I hope this all makes sense....in conclusion...asari are 'female' to us if not to them.

Modifié par jlb524, 28 janvier 2011 - 05:34 .

[AdmiralCheez]

MrDizaztar wrote...

Then what you are suggesting is technically a virus.  Also you are suggesting that they need another species to even produce offspring.  From what we know, Asari can in fact breed with other Asari.  All saying is it is more viable for a single species to be "female" than male.  We already have instances where such species exsist on Earth.

Plenty of earth species require other species to reproduce.  Parasitic wasps, for example, which are very specialized, but highly successful in their niche.  Eventually, something parasitic could evolve enough to become intelligent and domesticate their host organisms.  Now, these hypothetical aliens are specialized to the point where only a few species from their homeworld make viable hosts, and because they do not exchange genetic material they more vulnerable to sudden environmental changes than other organic races, but by grace of chance they have survived long enough to create their own civilization.

The act of seeding is a rewarding experience (otherwise they wouldn't do it very much), and thus they commonly "mate" with other sentients for pleasure, but cannot successfully use them as a host.

And yeah, I'd guess they'd be more of a "virus" in the reproductive sense, since they are essentially cloning themselves, but imagine they look like attractive human males, only with a different colored skin and weird scalps.

I shall call then the irasa.

(oh yeah, and the asari don't exchange genetic material with each other - they recombine their own during a mind-merge)

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 28 janvier 2011 - 05:28 .

[marshalleck]

Infinite Legend wrote...

I still don't understand how they can have babies with other species, which would be completely Impossible (even with the explanation in game) it still doesn't make sense.

Well you have to suspend disbelief a bit, of course. But if you understand that the offspring of an asari/non-asari pair are not actually a genetic hybrid, but 100% pure asari it makes more sense. People seem to be under this impression that asari take genetic material from their partners when they reproduce. They do not. They merely use the partner to "rearrange" the DNA of the child--at least, according to popular asari belief. The child of such a union is always pure asari, not a hybrid species.

Modifié par marshalleck, 28 janvier 2011 - 07:00 .