23 réponses à ce sujet

[C Barchuk]

Ok, I have a few questions here on Rogues and other characters. First of all, I've always played rogues in D&D as well as in all the NWN games. They're my favorite class to play. At any rate I wanted to make sure I'm playing my level 11 fighter/rogue/SD correctly as far as PvM go. I usually start from stealth and sneak attack the first monster coming towards the party. I then get behind it so I can continue my sneak attack barrage. If another monster attacks me directly I'll usually use feint until my HiPS is up. At that point I'll restealth and reopen up. As far as rogue 101 basics go, am I doing this correctly? Are there any other NWN rogue tips I should know about?

Ok, next. I've been trying some level 30 rogue powerbuilds in the Halls of Training Mod. Question is how do you beat spellcasters lol. I even find this an issue in single player modules sometimes for a rogue. Basically I can't even hit them. I'm not sure but it looks like they've got spell mantle and mirror image on and who knows what else. But I can't even hit them. As a rogue build, is there any tips to fighting spell casters such as scrolls that would help?

Ok last question, I promise. I want to try out some other characters for different modules but I don't really know much about other classes outside of a rogue especially concerning multiclass options. For the sake of simplicity should I just make a vanilla class like a plain cleric or whatever to get an idea of how other classes play? I've looked on the new character builds website and I have no idea what to try out lol.

Sorry again for the 15000 questions here. Thanks so much.

[M. Rieder]

[quote]C Barchuk wrote...

Question is how do you beat spellcasters lol. I even find this an issue in single player modules sometimes for a rogue. Basically I can't even hit them. I'm not sure but it looks like they've got spell mantle and mirror image on and who knows what else. But I can't even hit them. As a rogue build, is there any tips to fighting spell casters such as scrolls that would help?

[/quote]

Ideally, get close to the mage before defenses are up.

Mirror image (little glowing orbs circling the caster) or damage reduction spells like stoneskin will make it very hard to damage the spellcaster.  If you have a dispel magic scroll that you can use, this could be helpful, otherwise, either stay hidden until the spells wear off (for mirror image you can do this, stoneskin is active for 24 hours).  You can also try to use poison to weaken the mage.  They have low fortitude saving throws and are vulnerable there.  Otherwise, I would say do a quick hit and run.  Try to get out of range and invisible again as soon as possible.  If you can get an item that gives immunity to mind spells then you will be a lot better off, since the rogue's low will save makes him very suceptible to mind spells. 

[quote]

Ok last question, I promise. I want to try out some other characters for different modules but I don't really know much about other classes outside of a rogue especially concerning multiclass options. For the sake of simplicity should I just make a vanilla class like a plain cleric or whatever to get an idea of how other classes play? I've looked on the new character builds website and I have no idea what to try out lol.
[/quote]


Try some class specific mods to learn individual characters.  The Mamed God's Saga - Cleric, Last of the Danaan - Ranger, The Wizard's Apprentice - Wizard or Sorceror (also possibly bard, but not recommended).
[/quote]

best of luck!

[C Barchuk]

Thanks a bunch. I appreciate it. I haven't been using any scrolls or poison so I will definitely give that a try.

[Arkalezth]

C Barchuk wrote...

Ok, I have a few questions here on Rogues and other characters. First of all, I've always played rogues in D&D as well as in all the NWN games. They're my favorite class to play. At any rate I wanted to make sure I'm playing my level 11 fighter/rogue/SD correctly as far as PvM go. I usually start from stealth and sneak attack the first monster coming towards the party. I then get behind it so I can continue my sneak attack barrage. If another monster attacks me directly I'll usually use feint until my HiPS is up. At that point I'll restealth and reopen up. As far as rogue 101 basics go, am I doing this correctly? Are there any other NWN rogue tips I should know about?

Let's see...flanking enemies for sneak attacks doesn't always work in my experience (though it works better with ranged weapons). You don't need both HiPS and Feint. One is enough, since both do basically the same. If an oponent is feinted, all of your attacks against him in the next six seconds will be sneak attacks, so no need to HiPS in that time.

Which one is better depends on the situation: if you have a party, specially with more than one Rogue, Feint is arguably better because the entire party benefits from it. HiPS, on the other hand, can be a good starter, and it can also be used defensively to avoid attacks or (and this answers your second question somewhat) to interrupt spellcasters targetting spells at you. Also, keep in mind that you can only activate Feint with melee weapons.

And as a general rule, always focus on one enemy (with all party members if possible) until it's dead. Then move to the next one.

Ok, next. I've been trying some level 30 rogue powerbuilds in the Halls of Training Mod. Question is how do you beat spellcasters lol. I even find this an issue in single player modules sometimes for a rogue. Basically I can't even hit them. I'm not sure but it looks like they've got spell mantle and mirror image on and who knows what else. But I can't even hit them. As a rogue build, is there any tips to fighting spell casters such as scrolls that would help?

I'm not into PvP, but the best I you can do is abuse HiPS. Attack from stealth to hit more reliabily and hide when the mage is going to cast a spell at you. Scrolls and wands can also be useful, yes.

Ok last question, I promise. I want to try out some other characters for different modules but I don't really know much about other classes outside of a rogue especially concerning multiclass options. For the sake of simplicity should I just make a vanilla class like a plain cleric or whatever to get an idea of how other classes play? I've looked on the new character builds website and I have no idea what to try out lol.

Yes, for now you might be better sticking to characters with only one or two classes. Maybe with a base class and a matching PrC (Fighter/Weapon Master, Fighter/Frenzied Berserker, Cleric/Stormlord, Wizard/Arcane Scholar...), though you may not reach the necessary level in many modules. If you multiclass, keep in mind that some classes are best pure, and some don't mix well together (Cleric/Wizard for example). I won't go in detail now, ask if you have any further questions.

I also support M. Rieder's advice to play class specific modules. That's one of the best ways to learn how to play a class.

Modifié par Arkalezth, 28 janvier 2011 - 06:09 .

[C Barchuk]

Ark, thanks a ton for the wealth of info. I've been wanting to starting getting into a new class but all the builds I look have 3 or 4 different classes within the build. Its a bit daunting trying to figure out where to start. But those class specific mods sound great. I've heard wonderful things about the maimed gods one. Currently in the middle of Misery Stone and its fantastic. The atmosphere is great. I've got another rogue in the party so I've been trying to use feint often and its worked great. Thanks again

[M. Rieder]

I usually play plain class with complimentary prestige class. Usually wizard/arcane scholar. With spellcasting, I am loath to give up my spell progression.

[C Barchuk]

So without going into 4 different classes, whats a good complimentary prestige class for rogues? I assume assassin, fighter or something like that.

[Arkalezth]

Rogue/Fighter or Rogue/Ranger are good combinations. Also something with HiPS (Assassin, Shadowdancer) if you're not using Feint.

Neverwinter Nine and Shadow Thief of Amn (for feinters) are also good, but you'd be looking to 3-4 classes there.

[C Barchuk]

Yea thats the builds I've been trying out. Mithdradates' Night Fangs seems to be the best overall rogue build in terms of numbers at least from what I've seen. Does anybody have any other rogue builds that are considered superior from 1-30?

[Arkalezth]

C Barchuk wrote...

Does anybody have any other rogue builds that are considered superior from 1-30?

It's hard to tell. Rogues are generally better STR based pre epic, and DEX based in epic. Night Fangs is a great build, but not very playable until high levels. And not very playable at all if you keep Svirfneblin as the race.

[C Barchuk]

Ah that makes sense. Yea it seems alot of the builds I've seen are based on being played at level 30. That kind of stinks. Your right about STR being better pre epic. I'm playing a dex-based rogue in Misery Stone right now. He does great as long as he can sneak attack but if they're immune, his damage goes waayyy down. I'll have to try out one of the STR builds you've already mentioned.

[Arkalezth]

If you're going to focus on module play, forget about epic builds, take a look at level 10 ones (the site doesn't allow a lower level). Some level 30 builds are good at low levels, but others are crap until 21+.

Yes, there are lots of immunes in Misery Stone. An easy solution is to take 1 Ranger level with Favored Enemies: Undead, and Improved Favored Enemy as your next feat.

Modifié par Arkalezth, 29 janvier 2011 - 02:49 .

[C Barchuk]

Sounds good. My biggest issue is knowing what level to take a class in order to maximize feat selection and AB. I still don't totally understand how that works. I guess that's pretty sad since I've been playing the game a while lol. Does that make much of a difference in lower levels and if so, can you shed some light on it for me?

[C Barchuk]

Yea I would really like figure out a good 10+ level ranger/rogue/assassin build or just a ranger/assassin. That sounds like it would be pretty effective for module play.

[Arkalezth]

C Barchuk wrote...

Sounds good. My biggest issue is knowing what level to take a class in order to maximize feat selection and AB. I still don't totally understand how that works. I guess that's pretty sad since I've been playing the game a while lol. Does that make much of a difference in lower levels and if so, can you shed some light on it for me?

You'll learn with experience. It depens on the class...

Yea I would really like figure out a
good 10+ level ranger/rogue/assassin build or just a ranger/assassin.
That sounds like it would be pretty effective for module play.

The earliest you can get HiPS with an Assassin is at level 13, and you won't reach that level in most modules.

Ranger/Assassin is a good mix. 6/8 at level 14, 11/9 at 20, 21/9 at 30.

[C Barchuk]

Now for a ranger/assassin does it matter what my level distribution is? Do I just take 6 straight levels of Ranger and then switch to Assassin?

[Arkalezth]

I'd go either 5/8/1 or 6/8, depending on what you want first: HiPS or a second attack with the off-hand. Maybe with the latter, HiPS is great, but better to wait 1 level for one thing than 9 for other.

[C Barchuk]

Nice. Since he'll have undead as favored enemy should I still make him STR based?

[C Barchuk]

Ark I just wanted to say I'm really starting to enjoy the lower level content more. Characters seem alot cooler and more unique in many ways. When I was just concentrating on epic play, everything seemed to be just about numbers and how to maximize this and how to maximize that etc..I dunno alot of the headache seems to be taken out with lower level characters.

[Arkalezth]

C Barchuk wrote...

Nice. Since he'll have undead as favored enemy should I still make him STR based?

My Rangers are almost always STR based. And Wood Elves, usually.

Edit: I mean dual wielding Rangers. Archers are DEX based, obviously.

Modifié par Arkalezth, 29 janvier 2011 - 04:01 .

[C Barchuk]

Should I still pick up weapon finesse or will STR substantially higher?

[C Barchuk]

Man I just found your "Death from the Woods" build. Is that along the lines of what I should go for?

[Arkalezth]

Yes, something like that is what I was talking about. I'm going to update it because I found an error on it. Able Learner can be useful if you want different skills (conversation skills, for example).

Weapon Finesse is only useful if DEX is higher than STR (not the case).

Modifié par Arkalezth, 29 janvier 2011 - 05:43 .

[C Barchuk]

Now I have noticed whenever I test out assassin builds that have no rogue levels, that the sneak attack message doesn't appear during combat. Is the death attack damage being applied even though I have no rogue levels? Another similar build I came upon mentioned that was the case even though the date is was posted was last year. Has this bug been fixed I assume?