36 réponses à ce sujet

[mattahraw]

So, fellow insanity players.... Help me come up with some cool ideas to improve the insanity experience next time around.


I really liked that Insanity players got a little something in the Geth Pulse Rifle in ME2. I thought it'd be really cool to come up with some ideas of something special Insanity players in ME3 can be rewarded with. A special suit of armour? A new heavy weapon? Lets give the dev team some ideas...


What i'd really like to see is a special ending for players who've beaten ME1, 2 and 3 on insanity. Even if it's just a couple of extra lines of dialog or an extra scene, I think it'd be cool to acknowledge players who've achieved it.


Also, I know it's highly unlikely, but it'd be cool to see the combat scenarios change on Insanity level. Perhaps the layout of rooms differs slightly, or enemies come from different locations... Or just plain way more of them. I definitely reckon having way more enemies is much more exciting than having the same amount just with rediculous amounts of armour and shielding.

[Kronner]

I would add auto-regenerating shields/barriers to all enemies. Also, no auto-saves, you can save only on Normandy SR2. All enemies should also be able to throw various grenades (Inferno, Flashbang, Frag); biotic enemies should have more stuff than gimped Warp (Throw, Warp, Stasis, Shockwave). Enemy Engineers should have at least Damping, Drone, Fireball and Overload. Bring back snipers that can one shot Shepard.

As for rewards, I don't really care, I play because it's fun, not because of cool armor or whatever.

Modifié par Kronner, 29 janvier 2011 - 09:07 .

[Vizkos]

Bonus armor and whatnot won't sit well with those who aren't hardcore into the game. I would suggest doing something like what The Witcher 2 is doing (you die, you die..period, endo story). Or what Kronner suggested where you can only save on the Normandy.

[Roxlimn]

Idea: Ammo powers in general no longer apply bonus damage to health.

[Ahglock]

I like most of what Kronner said, but not the save part. Unless they fix all the bugs that can kill you I wont support no saves. Far too many times I've got myself hung up on terrain or whatever and have to reload, if I had to reload the entire mission due to that I'd be pissed, and if when you died you dies ala witcher 2 the fail experiment I'd be epic pissed about a bug death.

[weedlink10]

i like what ninja gaiden did, on higher settings you would see enemies that were not on lower settings.

[Siegdrifa]

Kronner wrote...

 Also, no auto-saves, you can save only on Normandy SR2. .

This could be a VERY bad idea.
During the game i have to reload a game or get killed not because i made a mistake, but because a bug occure, getting stuck into a walm, life not regenerating, ennemi blocked so i can't go farther.
And, the other bad side of this is, usually all mission have dialogues and let us earn / use paragon / renegade score. If we zap them may be we won't have enough point for the tough edcision, it would be a nerd rage to endure all those dialogue everytime you die.

Insanity is a challenge for the fight, not to the nerves. Playing in insanity look easy when you don't make mistake, but Shepard can die in less than 2 secondes during open cross fire, it would be just pissing off to force someone to restart a 40 minutes mission because a he got killed by a bug or just a small mistake or a crash or even a very short electric cut.

Modifié par Siegdrifa, 29 janvier 2011 - 06:59 .

[lazuli]

Kronner wrote...

I would add auto-regenerating shields/barriers to all enemies. Also, no auto-saves, you can save only on Normandy SR2. All enemies should also be able to throw various grenades (Inferno, Flashbang, Frag); biotic enemies should have more stuff than gimped Warp (Throw, Warp, Stasis, Shockwave). Enemy Engineers should have at least Damping, Drone, Fireball and Overload. Bring back snipers that can one shot Shepard.

As for rewards, I don't really care, I play because it's fun, not because of cool armor or whatever.

I like your ideas for diversifying enemy abilities.  I don't think Throw would work well, though, as it would be far too easy for Shepard to get glitched into a wall.  Imagine that happening, then, with your save limit suggestion enforced.

Shockwave, though, was fun when Tela Vasir used it to force Shepard out of cover.  More grenades would be welcome as well, as they could force players from entrenched positions.

As for one shot kills, I'd rather not see them on ranged enemies unless they can be easily dodged.  I'd like fearsome melee enemies that have the ability to kill Shepard instantly if they get too close.

[mattahraw]

lazuli wrote...

Kronner wrote...

I would add auto-regenerating shields/barriers to all enemies. Also, no auto-saves, you can save only on Normandy SR2. All enemies should also be able to throw various grenades (Inferno, Flashbang, Frag); biotic enemies should have more stuff than gimped Warp (Throw, Warp, Stasis, Shockwave). Enemy Engineers should have at least Damping, Drone, Fireball and Overload. Bring back snipers that can one shot Shepard.

As for rewards, I don't really care, I play because it's fun, not because of cool armor or whatever.

I like your ideas for diversifying enemy abilities.  I don't think Throw would work well, though, as it would be far too easy for Shepard to get glitched into a wall.  Imagine that happening, then, with your save limit suggestion enforced.

Shockwave, though, was fun when Tela Vasir used it to force Shepard out of cover.  More grenades would be welcome as well, as they could force players from entrenched positions.

As for one shot kills, I'd rather not see them on ranged enemies unless they can be easily dodged.  I'd like fearsome melee enemies that have the ability to kill Shepard instantly if they get too close.

Yeah i also really like the idea of diversifying enemies abilities.

I still think way more enemies are needed, rather than just upping all their shields and armour.

[lazuli]

mattahraw wrote...
Yeah i also really like the idea of diversifying enemies abilities.

I still think way more enemies are needed, rather than just upping all their shields and armour.

That would be nice, but we have to think about processing power and the stress this would put on the engine.  I won't pretend I know the details about rendering models or anything, but obviously there has to be a limit to how many creatures can be on the screen at once.

[Bourne Endeavor]

Kronner wrote...

I would add auto-regenerating shields/barriers to all enemies. Also, no auto-saves, you can save only on Normandy SR2. All enemies should also be able to throw various grenades (Inferno, Flashbang, Frag); biotic enemies should have more stuff than gimped Warp (Throw, Warp, Stasis, Shockwave). Enemy Engineers should have at least Damping, Drone, Fireball and Overload. Bring back snipers that can one shot Shepard.

As for rewards, I don't really care, I play because it's fun, not because of cool armor or whatever.

I agree with everything excluded the red highlighted portion. Insanity would be virtually unplayable for a large majority of the fanbase. Restrictive saving does not challenge the player, it frustrates them. This becomes immensely more egregious in a game where having to restart an entire mission could result in rewatching upwards of twenty minutes of dialogue an innumerable amount of times.

Imagine on Kasumi or Garrus' loyalty mission, a misplaced Charge leaves you accidently exposed to the Gunship, and you are subsequently demolished. The player is now forced to replay the entire mission and watch every portion of dialogue again for one mistake. For inexperienced Vanguard players, this would be such a frequent occasion due to the high death probability of the class. It would be deemed unplayable.

Challenge the player with competent AI, which forces them to strategize and contemplate their maneuvering in a tactical fashion. "Should I shoot them dead or would a Warp bomb be better?" Frankly, the lack of a save feature in some capacity is detrimental enough it could completely destroy a person's interest in the game.

[mattahraw]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

Kronner wrote...

I would add auto-regenerating shields/barriers to all enemies. Also, no auto-saves, you can save only on Normandy SR2. All enemies should also be able to throw various grenades (Inferno, Flashbang, Frag); biotic enemies should have more stuff than gimped Warp (Throw, Warp, Stasis, Shockwave). Enemy Engineers should have at least Damping, Drone, Fireball and Overload. Bring back snipers that can one shot Shepard.

As for rewards, I don't really care, I play because it's fun, not because of cool armor or whatever.

I agree with everything excluded the red highlighted portion. Insanity would be virtually unplayable for a large majority of the fanbase. Restrictive saving does not challenge the player, it frustrates them. This becomes immensely more egregious in a game where having to restart an entire mission could result in rewatching upwards of twenty minutes of dialogue an innumerable amount of times.

Imagine on Kasumi or Garrus' loyalty mission, a misplaced Charge leaves you accidently exposed to the Gunship, and you are subsequently demolished. The player is now forced to replay the entire mission and watch every portion of dialogue again for one mistake. For inexperienced Vanguard players, this would be such a frequent occasion due to the high death probability of the class. It would be deemed unplayable.

Challenge the player with competent AI, which forces them to strategize and contemplate their maneuvering in a tactical fashion. "Should I shoot them dead or would a Warp bomb be better?" Frankly, the lack of a save feature in some capacity is detrimental enough it could completely destroy a person's interest in the game.

I kinda like the idea of not being able to save at all as a challenge, but it'd have to be above insanity, like ultra-insanity level or something, unlockable only after beating insanity. Or it could be a toggle option in the menu- Permanent death mode.

[Bourne Endeavor]

mattahraw wrote...

I kinda like the idea of not being able to save at all as a challenge, but it'd have to be above insanity, like ultra-insanity level or something, unlockable only after beating insanity. Or it could be a toggle option in the menu- Permanent death mode.

You can do this manually if you so fancy. Turn off the Auto-Save feature, save only aboard the Normandy and should you die, reload that file and only that file. In this regard, masochistic gamers have their challenge and everyone else has a difficult, albeit not unbearable experience.

No need to implement a difficulty setting that can be accomplished manually.

Modifié par Bourne Endeavor, 29 janvier 2011 - 11:33 .

[Siegdrifa]

mattahraw wrote...
I kinda like the idea of not being able to save at all as a challenge, but it'd have to be above insanity, like ultra-insanity level or something, unlockable only after beating insanity. Or it could be a toggle option in the menu- Permanent death mode.

It's not a challenge when you die because of bugs / gliche / electric cut or whatever can happen.
+ like i said, redo again all the dialogue during mission would be a pretty pissing off game experience.

As for permanent death, for the reason mentioned above, like i said (again) in insanity we can die in less than 2 seconde during open fire, if difficulty keep that fast killing in ME3, perma death would just be a retarded option for SM people, nearly no human could beat a 40 hour game without diyng once when only 2 seconde is enough to die.

Offering challenge doesn't mean offering something that 99.99999% won't do, if it was the case, then just kill all ennemy with melee attack on the finger toes and let every other part of their body imune to damage.

People should be reward when they play good and smart, not punished for random bug or unpleasant challange that look more than childish bet than actual game play experience.
If you want  a perma death option, just erase your save and restart a new game everytime you die, enjoy.

Modifié par Siegdrifa, 30 janvier 2011 - 12:51 .

[Tony Gunslinger]

Definately some new combat powers, grenades, etc. Enemies damping you made me think of an idea I had, something like an EM blast where it just shuts off all tech, radar, synthetics, shields, and weapons, including the enemy if they're close. Fistfight!

[CanadAvenger]

Mass Effect 1 on Insanity was too easy, but ME2 on Insanity (IMO) was just right for my style of play. I still died a few times and I thought it was pretty challenging. I much prefer to play a something challenging as opposed to something that is so ****ing ridiculous that I throw my controller through the TV and never play the game again. (CoD World at War on Veteran, I'm looking at YOU)



A "no save" feature is possible the most evil thing that could be implemented in a game and I would never play on a high difficulty again, were it to be used. I had 300-400 saves in ME2 on Insanity, so that should tell you something.

If players want to have it, do it manually, as Bourne Endeavor suggested, but there better not be an Achievement or Trophy for it. Completionists like myself would nerd-rage themselves into oblivion.



However more on topic, I would support having a greater number of enemies as opposed to ridiculously strong ones that I can run out of ammo for my weapons shooting them before they drop.

They would also need to redo the AI for squadmates, if the AI on Insanity is smarter. While it's relatively easy to manually control them, there are instances where you either don't have time or a place to do it and your squadmates just derp around in the middle of the battlefield and die instantly.

[mattahraw]

CanadAvenger wrote...

However more on topic, I would support having a greater number of enemies as opposed to ridiculously strong ones that I can run out of ammo for my weapons shooting them before they drop.
They would also need to redo the AI for squadmates, if the AI on Insanity is smarter. While it's relatively easy to manually control them, there are instances where you either don't have time or a place to do it and your squadmates just derp around in the middle of the battlefield and die instantly.

I think improving squadmate AI is always on the dev team's list of "to-do" anyway, but I agree, a smarter squad would be much appreciated.

I'd love to see a couple of insanity only moments in the game. I posted the idea of a special ending for insanity players, but even just a couple of extra insanity only sidemissions, or a few lines of dialog here or there... It makes that extra playthrough that much more special when something you haven't seen before pops up.

[mattahraw]

Tony Gunslinger wrote...

Definately some new combat powers, grenades, etc. Enemies damping you made me think of an idea I had, something like an EM blast where it just shuts off all tech, radar, synthetics, shields, and weapons, including the enemy if they're close. Fistfight!

An insanity only combat power would be pretty cool. Depends on development resources as to whether we'd be able to get one or not...

[Intax]

I like the idea of more enemies. Not too many though, as it is you can sometimes get stuck behind cover in sections of the game for too long. More enemies just increases those parts of the game. More powers being used is a good thing (loved the Vasir fight).



A big thing they can do is add enemy combos that are more dangerous. A good example would be putting a Geth Hunter in the same spot as a Destroyer (I can't think of any spots in the game that have both) or put vanguard types with other aggressive enemies like flamethrowers.

[AkiKishi]

It's easier to list things to avoid.



While having no saves sounds good in theory getting stuck and having to go back would be frustrating. I don't mind being "punished" when it's my fault but not because of a buggy game. Because of the mission based structure of ME2 though, much less of concern.



More enemies.. It depends what they do. I actually find that running spawn points while invisible or the enemie is distracted cuts off huge swathes of the game and makes it a less tedious. This is direct result of mission based XP.



There is nothing particularly skillful about things that can either 1 shot you, or juggle you unless there is some sort of counter measure. That again is just luck, zero skill involved there.



The "tactics" interface is so laughable there is not much you can really do about tactics as such in the games current form. Sure you can point them places but what they do when they get there seems to be rather random.



I've actually died a lot less on insanity than on normal. Part of that is knowing the game now , the other part is I'm a lot less gung ho. Starting new game + with a level 30 huge mistake. But it's quite funny watching things get easier mission by mission (and totally counter intuative).



In my experience of RPGs though, the only time I have ever seen an RPG get harder rather than more tedious is when you make the player tackle it at a lower level. Then you can brag to your mates that you finished X game at level XX without actually requiring anything different on the part of the game designers.



Too often things like extra xp offered by extra enemies or difficulty specific weapons just make things easier than it was before.

[spernus]

The best reward of an insanity run should be the fact that you finished it. Imo,insanity should be the Demon's Souls mode.

That game is all about risk versus reward (white versus black tendancies,40% increase in difficulty in a new game+,harsh penalty for death if you aren't paying attention,etc) and encouraging proper play within the context of the game.How is that accomplished? The damage output of both your enemies and yourself is really high,so you can die quickly or kill quickly.You need to learn how to block,parry and also a good dose of patience to survive.

Here's a commentary from the producer of Demon's Souls:  Miyazaki commented on the game's considerable difficulty as "never the goal", but rather a focus on creating a real sense of accomplishment. Difficulty was described as "one way to offer an intense sense of accomplishment through forming strategies, overcoming obstacles, and discovering new things."Game locations were described as "places of evil intent", such as the Tower of Latria embodying man-made evil, and the Valley of Defilement embodying natural evil, with the difficulty heightening the player's sense of dread.The threat of death that sees players potentially losing all their hard-earned souls was also created to emphasize this mood, that "if the Souls could be recovered anytime, there would be no suspense or sense of accomplishment."

Modifié par spernus, 15 février 2011 - 07:03 .

[implodinggoat]

spernus wrote...

This is how I would make the insanity run.Enemies do not need more armor,quite the contrary.Make it so they can die or kill you quickly so you are encouraged to properly use cover,develop a sharp aim and use every tactic at the proper time.

That would kind of unbalance the game since certain builds specialize more in whittling down enemies or charging in point blank while others specialize in rapidly dropping them.

For example I tend to play as a Commando Soldier with Heightened Adrenaline Rush a Widow Sniper Rifle and a Mattock Assault Rifle.  My build is based entirely on doing heavy damage very quickly from range while staying in cover and making the enemies easier to kill would turn my build into a totally overpowered monster while classes that need to get in close like Vanguards, Assault Sentinels, and Shotgun Infiltrators would be at a huge disadvantage.

[Fiery Phoenix]

implodinggoat wrote...

For example I tend to play as a Commando Soldier with Heightened Adrenaline Rush a Widow Sniper Rifle and a Mattock Assault Rifle. 

This. That's really all there is to it when it comes to Insanity.

[implodinggoat]

My Suggestions for Insanity

1: Have all enemies use powers and abilities more frequently with even your most basic grunts having the ability to recharge their shields, barriers, armor and health.

2:  Have more enemy types capable of using offensive powers, mercs grenadiers, Krogan Biotics, Geth engineers, Collectors who use warp or throw, etc.  NOTE: I'd like to see more power using enemies on all difficulty levels; but they'd be extra trouble on insanity since they'e be using their powers more frequently.

3:   Have any enemy above your most basic grunt have either an extra layer of protection (Shields and Armor or Barriers and Armor) or have more of a single type of protection and some extra health.

4:  Have the elite enemies who already have multiple protection types have even more protection and health.

5:  Just like when you're attacking enemies, if you're shields or barriers go down you should be extra vulnerable to some attacks.  If a biotic hits you with throw with your shields up then it will do damage; but if they go down then it will do damage and hurl your ass across the room.  This adds difficulty by giving enemies abilities which can cripple you; but doesn't make it dumb luck since you can counter their abilities by getting your ass in cover if your shields drop.

6:  Enemies should use Warp and Overload and receive the same damage bonuses Shepard does.  Thus a biotic Shepard using barriers will be extra vulnerable to enemies using warp, while a Shepard using shields will be extra vulnerable to enemies using overload or incinerate.

7: Snipers.

Modifié par implodinggoat, 15 février 2011 - 07:30 .

[Manic Sheep]

More aggressive power heavy enemies.

More enemies in general

Shep being able to get hit with CC like throw or panicing with incinerate.(not sure about this one tho, It may end up being just plain frustrating.)

Much higher damage to you.

More defensive on enemies but not too much, enough that you can't one hit everything with the widow but not so much it makes the game painfully slow like ME1.

Also I agree with above post: Snipers

 I actually liked having to look out for and being taken out in one hit by Snipers in ME1. They were pretty easy to spot and since assassinate made a red line appear that went form them to you,  you could always find them and you had enough time to get to cover. If you were out in the open with snipers about or not paying attention you deserve to be killed. It was not random or unavoidable. I hardly ever died because of this but it did make me pay attention more.

Modifié par Manic Sheep, 15 février 2011 - 08:00 .