34 réponses à ce sujet

[seramiran]

My problem isn't winning the fight but dealing with the stupid tactics.

I'm with the Knights & Dwynn up at the windmill and the stupid, stupid, STUPID idiots keep standing in the fire.

I was throwing fireballs before the corpses get to the fire (so they die faster) but then the knights go and stand in the fire. So then I tried hitting the corpses to slow them down when they are in the fire (closer) to take more damage, but again the knights run into the flames.

Now I put my group into hold, have everyone using ranged weapons, and don't fire till they are well past the flames ... and still the knights keep moving the fight into the fire. They stand in the flames and the corpses run around them. The only damage the knights and Dwynn are taking is from standing in the fire. I can't heal them all and I am frustrated. The more of the idiots burn themselves to death the more my guys get hit. Won't have that.

Advice?

[mousestalker]

Don't tell Ser Perth about the oil. Otherwise they will park themselves in the flames almost every time.



The only way I know to stop them is use cone of cold and freeze them before they get to the fire. Then of course you have to heal them back up.

[HolyAvenger]

I haven't had this problem, and I've had the flames both times. My strategy is to let the undead come through the flames, to where the line of knights is. All that time, have your mages/ranged people firing at them. I like having tactics set up so I don't even need to control them. I used one tank just to finish off any that might come through. Barely any did. No knights died.

Simples.

Modifié par HolyAvenger, 29 janvier 2011 - 05:56 .

[seramiran]

Thank You.

mousestalker
Figures. I like the oil, it's so simple. Freezing the idiots does have appeal. {smirk}

HolyAvenger
I did just that, not firing till they were past the fire and halfway to the knights. I tried a variety of things. This 'hold till you see the yellow of their eyes' approach seems reckless but it's where I'm at now. Guess I'll try letting them wade into the line. I'm not sure if you were parked to the side or behind the knights, from your description.

Just a note: I've got Ali taunting his little boyscout heart out as well, trying to draw the corpses through and then away from the fire.

pps: On the fourth time through it worked fine. No idea why it worked this time; I even let Ali & Zev melee. So ...  YMMV seems to be the rule.

Modifié par seramiran, 29 janvier 2011 - 09:52 .

[PatT2]

How do you heal them? I've never, ever had healing work on anyone but my own team. I cast group heal, even, and only my squad is healed...allies aren't. Specifically targeting them doesn't do it either.



Proof that you can heal someone other than your squad? PC or 360.

[Bullets McDeath]

I don't have a video to prove it, but you can use the first level Heal spell on NPCs. I'm absolutely positive because I always end up having to do that to keep Lloyd the bartender alive. Group Heal will only effect your squad; it's not actually AoE, it just targets your party and no one else. And there is no way to use poultices on other characters (to which I say feh) so the first level Heal spell is the only method of doing this.

It might SEEM like it is doing nothing, because it is a first level spell and sort of sucks. If you hold down Tab, you can see the lifebar going up though.

Modifié par outlaworacle, 31 janvier 2011 - 06:51 .

[Stahlbart]

Cleansing Aura also worked fine for me.

[Elhanan]

As someone else suggested on a like thread, you may charge past the bonfire and take them on a little further up that hill, too. I did this once, and the witless knights and thugs were all fine.

I also like using Earthquake, Glyphs of Repulsion, and Force Field to aid against 3rd degree burns. The Glyph is especially nice at keeping cool things cool; hot things hot!

[shatteredstar56]

I haven't had this problem, but get them the holy symbols and don't tell them about the oil. You could always walk farther up the hill, as suggested.



I just ignored the knights for the most part, when they didn't back me up it wasn't a huge deal.

[seramiran]

PatT2

I'm on a PC, but yes the first level heal works on npcs. You just target them and they will receive healing. I kept everyone alive that way in this quest. Funny about Loyd, he was nearly indestructible for me, didn't have to heal him at all. Don't have fraps so can't prove it. outlaworacle is correct, you can see it with the tab button held down, but you do have to heal before they drop too low. I've had heal targets get mobbed when I was healing and the attacks beat out the healing. Maybe you're leaving it too late?



I've never been able to get the holy symbols and don't want to lose the benefits of the oil by bypassing or negating it. Simple solutions should simply work. {stubborn}



It worked out eventually, I'll just hold back on the attacking and do it that way.

[Kid_SixXx]

I always use the oil trap.

Enemies are drawn to the person in the heaviest armor, so I usually hold everyone's position near the windmill and send my tank (usually Sten dressed in Tier 4 Splintmail) to draw the zombies to him and then I lead the zombies straight to Dwyn's location.

Usually Perth and his knights rush to attack the charging zombies trailing the tank and I run around until the zombies are engaged by all of the defenders.

Unless the pathing is bugged, The other zombies rush down the hill in fairly close intervals and the bulk of the battle tends to remain near the windmill.  If the Zombies manage not to score any untimely crits, the NPC's tend to win the fight without the help from my tank.

Occasionally the pathing for the zombies gets tangled up and the defenders disengage after killing the last zombie and then they go back to their starting positions. That is problematic because the next waves of  zombies tend to fix their aggro on the knights as they attack and they tend to ignore my tank.

If things screw up, I just reload from the auto-start. It's not like the first fight takes a lot of time to finish and the knights / Dwyn's mercs aren't as fragile as the militiamen.when it comes to taking damage from the zombies.

The hard part is helping  the militia members and Lloyd survive Round 2.

Modifié par Kid_SixXx, 01 février 2011 - 06:03 .

[Kid_SixXx]

My issue is with the attack on the village.

I always wait to start after running in and out of the Chantry a couple of times to make sure that all militia members are wearing Studded Leather.

The problem is that everytime I talk to the mayor, he always says that the repairs are underway and I just start the attack once the militia seems armed and armored enough.

Is there ever a time when he says that the repairs are finished or is it just a dialogue loop?

I've noticed on different replays that there are times when I click on a militiaman corpse, the corpse has Tier 3 gear and on other replays, the corpse will have Tier 4 gear.  I have always wondered if the material is linked to Owen's repairs or if it is just the level of my character like it usually is.

Modifié par Kid_SixXx, 01 février 2011 - 07:00 .

[Huyster]

I've only done the battle once on PC normal but one of my PCs always drew the aggro so it was always a simple matter of pulling them away from the flames, having the monster(s) chase, and having the knights follow subsequently so as not to take "friendly fire".



I'll have to see what happens over multiple battles over different difficulty levels but I think drawing aggro is the key b/c it seems knights will chase a threat and not just plant themselves in the flames in a hold position.

[HolyAvenger]

Seriously, all you need for this are three ranged characters and good tactics. I've done it on normal with three tanks and it was a mess, almost everyone died. And I've done it on nightmare without losing a single person.



Tactics wise, have your mages/archers use nearest visible: pinning shot/lighting/winter's grasp/etc. Any DPS at range. 90% of the corpses will drop before even getting to the milita/knights. Only problem is Lloyd, who'll charge out as he doesn't have a missile weapon. Use your tank to draw aggro from him and use the heal spell on him and he'll stay alive too.

[JosieJ]

I never bother with the oil nowadays; really, the flame's the only thing that hurts the knights, who otherwise make short work of the undead.

As for the militia, they're a bit more vulnerable, but having a mage with Heal works wonders. The other classes all have something to recommend them in this fight: archers and mages have ranged DPS, tanks can draw aggro, DW rogues kill quickly, etc. The first playthrough's always the toughest; once you get better at knowing your companions and their strengths/weaknesses, you can generally get through the fight without losing anyone.

Modifié par JosieJ, 02 février 2011 - 01:36 .

[mousestalker]

One thing that does wonders with the militia (JosieJ is right, the knights really don't need help) is using haste or swift salve to move down as quickly as possible once the messenger pops. That extra second or two can make a big difference in saving a peasant's life.

[Sandbox47]

Hah, you have my problems, I see. Basically, if they run into the fire once they'll take a liking to it and keep doing so. If not then they'll stay away as far as I can tell. I really don't bother with the fire though because I have three mages (or two, depending on my character) when I do that particular part.

[Kid_SixXx]

I use Sten, Morrigan, and my dog. I usually build Sten to have Stunning Blows around that time.

Between chain stunning, Sten's taunting, and the occasional Cone of Cold from Morrigan, it's not too hard to keep militia alive. It just takes a lot of micromanagement on the cool-off timers.

I really do have to to keep an eye on that one miltia guy that stands off on the hill and uses his bow. Sometimes he gets jumped by two or three zombies while I am fighting the bulk of the zombie army by the Chantry and by the time I notice that he's in trouble, he is almost dead.

If I am thinking about it, I will have Zevran make a few fire bombs for me before the fight starts.

Modifié par Kid_SixXx, 02 février 2011 - 02:18 .

[HARDSarge]

first time I did that one, everybody got killed but me, and I was backed to the door of the Chantry,with a large mob of Darkspawn all around me, every time I cleared a space and popped a potion, more of them came in, it was the best battle I ever had



battle ended and everybody came back to life, and it was like, where were you all at !!!!

[ColaQueen]

Hahaha, I never even knew you could keep them all alive. The first time I played it was a nightmare just keeping my PC alive. After that I got better at keeping my party all alive. I just played this fight again last night with my cityelf/rogue Alistair, Sten and Morrigan. We have no problem staying alive as a group as I have Sten and Alistair trained to healed themselves. Morrigan only needs the occaissional lyrium potion, but otherwise she doesn't seem to get attacked. The knights as others have said pretty much take care of themselves. I find they survive despite the flames. We don't seem to take much damage from them either.



However, the bit in the village is still a slog for me. It's not hard, just seems endless. My entire party survives. For some reason the stupid archers decide to get into the middle of the mob with Alistair and Sten who are drawing all the attention away from me and Morrigan. So basically I end up with usually with Thomas, Murdock, Lloyd and pretty much everyone else dead as far as I can tell. Unfortunately you don't get much time to run around looting bodies to see who is dead before the cut scene. In which the mother only ever says that Murdock is dead I don't know why the others are not mourned since they gave their lives defending the village.



I think this time there were a couple of militia standing at the end as I did a good job of flanking and then using flurry and dirty fighting on any corpse I could.



On a side note: Morrigan levelled up right after the first part of the battle up the hill so I gave her Cone of Cold. I set it in her tactics, unfortunately I forgot that I put Alistair and Sten on Aggressive so needless to say we got blasted along with the militia and the corpses. Iceberg dead ahead! no joke. I also forget to throw my acid. I am always forgetting to throw bombs and use poison. I am the worst rogue ever.

[seramiran]

Too funny; I just finished a game and decided to get more mods and check the forum.



This time Lloyd died (which really surprised me), but he was the only one who did. The epilogue gave Bella the Tavern. I wish that option were in the game ... I'd have let him die the other times. It would be a really nice social touch to get Murdock or Teagan to give her the Tavern in the dialog. And who gets the store? Dwynn? (I'd love it if things would be cleaned up in the game ... corpses, giant pink growths, rubble, etc)



I finally started using bombs and potions, now if I could just remember to use the salves.



My biggest problem in battles is AoE ... I have to put everyone on hold or after they kill off the stragglers they run into the spell. Drives me nuts that does. Spend all those points and end up not using the spells. Next time I'm going to stop at fireball and cone of cold, spend those points elsewhere.

[Amazon Queen]

I like the AoE stuns from Dog, Shale and mages for this. That and Forcefield on Lloyd to keep him alive. One thing I've noticed, sometimes the undead seem to come in waves with gaps between them and then its not too difficult. Other times they seem to come in an unending stream and it can get hairy then.

edit: Used the oil 1st time I did this, never since.

Modifié par Amazon Queen, 18 février 2011 - 12:00 .

[SuicidalBaby]

So many people to help so little time.

Major Spoiler Warning

Ok, I'll break this down. The later in levels you do this the more abilities the militia will have, scatter shot being the butter to your bread.

Warning: Never make Lloyd fight, he will die with out constant vigilance and you will not get the prize for the encounter. You can intimidate him for the bar and then give it to Bella anyway, or just give her a raise, or just give her the 5 gold and let her go on her way. Let him be what he is, a coward.

Promise the smith first youll save his daughter, get the weapon cache and sell it for some light coin,
Talk to Murdock, Persuade him that you will win and you have faith or hope or some BS, then ask if there is anything else, ask about Dywn, go talk to Dywn, intimidate or bribe. (Pick pocket him and his thugs here, and once again outside.) Search the shop for the oil.
Go to Kaitlyns house, do what you like here, but get the blade either way.
Talk to Murdoc, Ask about Dywn, then Morale, then go up the hill, dont forget to get your Irregulars recruit.

Tavern:
DO NOT GET THE MEN FREE ALE.
Talk to Bella, ask about elf, offer to help her. Talk to Elf, Intimidate/Persuade, you can even pickpocket the letter and use it to force him to fight for the Village. Talk to the Militia at the table about their problems, Ask and you fight drunk? Or something like that, 1st reply I believe.
Talk to Llyod, ask about him, why he is open, why wont he fight, (you may have to ask why hes not serving the men free of charge to trigger the intimidate,but dont get the men free ale.), threaten to kill him, then intimidate to why should you defend something that is not yours. Youll get 80 silver, ask for more coin another 20silver, then loot his wares, at this point you can give the bar to Bella and loot her wares (different full merchant stock), or keep it and later help Bella leave town.
DO NOT GET THE MEN FREE ALE.
Leave.

Ser Perth convo, do this without Leliana in group or you will suffer a loss with her.
Tell him about the oil, ask all the questions about the urn, ask if there is anything else, amulets, you will do this. leave.
Chantry, ignore Kaitlyn till after the battle, Persuade, intimidate, do what you have to in order to get the amulets. Leave.
Keep Leliana out of the party till after this conversation.
Up the hill, Ser Perth, Amulets, ask about the oil again, he will say they got "more" of it, you can see it behind the Knights to confirm. Ask how his men are doing. leave.

Talk to Murdoc, by now he should be in full gear and ready to go. If not, go into the Chantry and talk to Bann Teagan at length about himself. Then come back out, if this still has not triggered the militia gear, talk to Owen again, if you haven't asked about his daughter after promising to find her now would be the time. All of this will trigger the militia's gear to spawn.

Talk to Murdoc, ask about Dywn again for good measure, ask about Moral again. Everything should be golden at this point, start the fight.

First half of Nightfall of Redcliff:

Team make up isn't that important.
Position your team near the oil, planting your tank(s) / dps in the fire or in front of it.
Caster and ranged on the little slopes on either side before the fire so they don't get "blocked" auto attack shots from the barricades.

Wynne's earthquake helps if you cast it half way up the hill, your melee will charge up and taunt here, the ranged will do their thing. Earthquake and fireball to push them back up the hill works really well before the melee move up. Using Stonefist as well can help keep the undead up the hill as well.

Now, the knights and Dwyn moving into the fire is caused by one of your team being near them during the fight, causing them to go off the Default personality in their tactics. If you have read this description you know they will not engage unless commanded to do so, starting auto attack with any party member near them will trigger this. If you are far enough away they will not react to your actions. Now once in a while an undead will slip through your bottle neck, keep your melee up the hill and let your range finish it off, a quick 3 single target damage spells from Morrigan can do this quite well. There will be enough time between waves to heal/loot.

Second half: The Militia
As I said earlier, the longer you wait to do this fight the better because of the militia's abilities. They scale much like you do, the undead, stay undead, they cast weaken, and at worst Drain life.
As you run down the hill and into the camp one thing that tends to happen is your ranged will stay half way up the hill for the first part of the first fight. That is a bad thing with Morrigan having her AoE stun and 2 of the first wave of undead being elite, ward the militia first off, drop an earth quake out toward the docks on the left (away from the chantry) this will slow the 2nd wave that comes soon after you arrive and give you more time to drop the elites with focus fire.
The little path on the right side of the camp is perfect for Glyph of repulsion or traps, any and all, Large claw being the most effective and safe as per Friendly fire.
Keep your group inside the barricades or right at the entrances, this will keep the militia inside and safe, the further you go out with undead around the more undisciplined they will be.
Best if you bring more dps vs 2 tanks, dropping the undead faster is the best way to deal with this rather than trying to control them, they dont always respond to taunt.

Do all of this and the final fight in front of the chantry is a cake walk.

Good luck.

Modifié par SuicidialBaby, 18 février 2011 - 06:37 .

[SuicidalBaby]

Hint: Pickpocketing the knights is a good thing.

[ussnorway]

Tip; putting up a 'Forcefield' on the last undead wave will bye you time to loot before the battle ends.