66 réponses à ce sujet

[Jarek_Cousland]

I think those statues may be like the gods they worshiped or something.





The beacon scene shows some running and you see no indication of tubes or glowey eyes.

[tonnactus]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Once they were indoctrinated, they accepted the Reapers as gods or supreme beings, huskification became voluntary and common behavior, and their rudimentary culture reflected that. Also the random pioneer groups that turn themselves into husks are often called "cultists" and that implies observation of some form of ceremonial behavior. Even the Geth Heretics built "some kind of church" (on Feros, remember?).

The reapers dont like that behavior(and only tolerated them because the geth were needed).And they also remove all clues leading to previous civilisations.

Modifié par tonnactus, 29 janvier 2011 - 11:40 .

[james1976]

FireEye wrote...

Ahhuh!

ME1:


ME2:


...

(... if it helps, anyway - I still don't know one way or the other...)

I think it shows the Protheans being repurposed as Collectors.

[james1976]

Aigyl wrote...



That's an image of a Prothean in the Codex.

They do look rather odd. S'pose it makes sense they'd be very alien-looking since they actually downloaded information into their minds from the Beacons.

For the Collectors appearing in the vision, I imagine it was some sort of warning sent across the Beacon network in the Prothean's final hours from a source other than Ilos, who had learned what the Reapers were doing to them. I actually did that mission before the Collector Ship, so the whole twist was suddenly revealed to me right then at the end of the vision. Was freakin' awesome.

Perhaps it is a Prothean after being turned into a husk.  It has similarities to the husks you fight.

[kidbd15]

james1976 wrote...

FireEye wrote...

Ahhuh!

ME1:


ME2:


...

(... if it helps, anyway - I still don't know one way or the other...)

I think it shows the Protheans being repurposed as Collectors.

This.  Protheans look like the statues on Ilos, and the statue in Hock's vault in the Kasumi DLC.  This image is just supposed to symbolize that the Protheans were turned into the Collector's, the same as what EDI says on the Collector ship... they've been genetically modified, and because of that, the look different.  It's not a retcon, it's just a transformation.  Protheans look like Protheans... they do not look like Collectors.

[Count Viceroy]

james1976 wrote...

Perhaps it is a Prothean after being turned into a husk.  It has similarities to the husks you fight.

Very unlikely. Why would they bother errecting statues long after their race had been doomed? More likely, that's what they actuallly looked like.

[AntiChri5]

Why?

Because i see no reason to.

Once they were indoctrinated, they accepted the Reapers as gods or supreme beings, huskification became voluntary and common behavior, and their rudimentary culture reflected that. Also the random pioneer groups that turn themselves into husks are often called "cultists" and that implies observation of some form of ceremonial behavior. Even the Geth Heretics built "some kind of church" (on Feros, remember?).

The entire point of Ilos was that it was never discovered by the reapers or their forces.

[Aurica]

AntiChri5 wrote...
The entire point of Ilos was that it was never discovered by the reapers or their forces.

I always thought the status on Ilos were how Protheans looked like because of the reason above.

[didymos1120]

Xilizhra wrote...

A beacon vision in ME2 shows the Protheans fairly clearly as Collector-like.

That vision shows two Collectors at the very end.  Here's what it shows before that:

Modifié par didymos1120, 30 janvier 2011 - 01:48 .

[Slayer299]

Zulu_DFA wrote...
Once they were indoctrinated, they accepted the Reapers as gods or supreme beings, huskification became voluntary and common behavior, and their rudimentary culture reflected that. Also the random pioneer groups that turn themselves into husks are often called "cultists" and that implies observation of some form of ceremonial behavior. Even the Geth Heretics built "some kind of church" (on Feros, remember?).

That seems to be stretching the boundry of reasonable assumption, especially considering the Reapers never found Ilos, because if they had Sovereign wouldn't have had to go looking for it. The Geth Heretics did that because they worshiped the Old Machines as gods, and it was osmething that was not encouraged by Sovereign and merely tolerated sinc the Geth useful at that time.

[Slayer299]

Aurica wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...
The entire point of Ilos was that it was never discovered by the reapers or their forces.

I always thought the status on Ilos were how Protheans looked like because of the reason above.

Exactly my thought as well.

[Mallissin]

It's all a bait and switch. In ME1, they made you think Protheans looked like husks. In ME2, they made you think they look like Collectors.



In ME3, we'll learn they look like humans. And the mind rape will be complete.

[Sajuro]

Slayer299 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...
Once they were indoctrinated, they accepted the Reapers as gods or supreme beings, huskification became voluntary and common behavior, and their rudimentary culture reflected that. Also the random pioneer groups that turn themselves into husks are often called "cultists" and that implies observation of some form of ceremonial behavior. Even the Geth Heretics built "some kind of church" (on Feros, remember?).

That seems to be stretching the boundry of reasonable assumption, especially considering the Reapers never found Ilos, because if they had Sovereign wouldn't have had to go looking for it. The Geth Heretics did that because they worshiped the Old Machines as gods, and it was osmething that was not encouraged by Sovereign and merely tolerated sinc the Geth useful at that time.

Remember when the Husk cultists attack you, there is the Reaper Shrine like the ones on Feros. Suggesting that some ancient people worshipped the Reapers since there wasn't a Geth attack and the people probably wouldn't have brought it.
My guess is that they dug up an Prothean site and found that from the last extinction cycle.

[Zulu_DFA]

Slayer299 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...
Once they were indoctrinated, they accepted the Reapers as gods or supreme beings, huskification became voluntary and common behavior, and their rudimentary culture reflected that. Also the random pioneer groups that turn themselves into husks are often called "cultists" and that implies observation of some form of ceremonial behavior. Even the Geth Heretics built "some kind of church" (on Feros, remember?).

That seems to be stretching the boundry of reasonable assumption, especially considering the Reapers never found Ilos, because if they had Sovereign wouldn't have had to go looking for it. The Geth Heretics did that because they worshiped the Old Machines as gods, and it was osmething that was not encouraged by Sovereign and merely tolerated sinc the Geth useful at that time.

The Reapers found Ilos and the Protheans there were culled just like everywhere else. Vigil was lying. Sovereign was searching for Ilos of because it either hadn't been with the rest of the Reapers already during the Prothean extinction, and/or the location of Ilos was hidden within the beacon network.

And if the Geth care to build Reaper shrines, Why couldn't the indoctrinated Protheans build a statue of a husk? Mordin infers that their degeneration was gradual.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 30 janvier 2011 - 02:42 .

[Slayer299]

Zulu, I read your *facts* and I find them interesting on more than a few points, but not enough so to accept them blindly as written in stone and on more than a few I see logical reasons why your ideas are incorrect. So, I do not accept, until otherwise proven by more evidence that presently available, that the statues are huskified Protheans who worshiped the Reapers as gods.



Those are interesting ideas you have, I just don't agree with them myself.

[Zulu_DFA]

Slayer299 wrote...

Zulu, I read your *facts* and I find them interesting on more than a few points, but not enough so to accept them blindly as written in stone and on more than a few I see logical reasons why your ideas are incorrect. So, I do not accept, until otherwise proven by more evidence that presently available, that the statues are huskified Protheans who worshiped the Reapers as gods.

Those are interesting ideas you have, I just don't agree with them myself.

Truth be told, the actual statues on Ilos don't have the distinct glowing "husk" elements, like the ones on the picture (although I do think they are husk statues too and the "face-tentacles" are actually the husk laryngeal tubes). However, this my assertion that Ilos was taken by the Reapers, has little to do with the possibility that the indoctrinated Protheans made statues of their husks (on Ilos or elsewhere), and the picture shows they did. It's clearly a husk.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 30 janvier 2011 - 03:15 .

[huntrrz]

I think that the vision from the beacon 'showed' more human figures because that is how Shepard's mind interpreted it based on the limited information it had - it 'filled in the blanks' with something he recognized. When the vision is experienced again it shows the true form of the figure more clearly - either it was more intact or Shepard's mind had adapted to the Prothean codex.



Now, the statues DO throw me off. I could make a couple of guesses, but how 'bout - the Protheans found a few traces of husks from the previous culling and thought they were the form of their predecessors, and honored them with the statues?

[Zulu_DFA]

kidbd15 wrote...

james1976 wrote...

FireEye wrote...

Ahhuh!

ME1:


ME2:


... [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/joyful.png[/smilie]

(... if it helps, anyway - I still don't know one way or the other...)

I think it shows the Protheans being repurposed as Collectors.

This.  Protheans look like the statues on Ilos, and the statue in Hock's vault in the Kasumi DLC.  This image is just supposed to symbolize that the Protheans were turned into the Collector's, the same as what EDI says on the Collector ship... they've been genetically modified, and because of that, the look different.  It's not a retcon, it's just a transformation.  Protheans look like Protheans... they do not look like Collectors.

Bear in mind that the Collectors you face in ME2 are all "soldiers", so they may be wearing "bionic armor" or something, like the one Cerberus can develop and provide to Shepard. So their bigger elongated heads may be just "helmets".

But I have to note, this vision alteration looks like a cheap PhotoShop job!!!

[rocketsauce v2]

or.....how about prothean husks look like protheans?! when a human gets turned into a husk, it looks like a human husk. the prothean statues on ilos don't look like husks, the protheans that got turned into husks look like prothean husks and that is the picture in the me 2 codex. not that hard to understand

[SandTrout]

The 'glowing husk elements' in the Codex image (assuming it's accurate) could be due to the prothean culture encouraging extensive cybernetic augmentation. The mechanization of a culture is a common theme in many Sci-Fi series that speculate on the evolution of humanity because it is a plausible direction to move in. The Protheans may have taken this route, resulting in their artwork reflecting this.

This might also explain why at least some Protheans were turned into the Collectors rather than another Reaper. The replacement of their organic bodies was too extensive for them to be rendered down into pre-Reaper goo properly, or it placed them outside what the Reapers considered acceptable.

If the Prothean's looked like Collectors, then this is a pretty severe, and poorly done, retcon because all images depicting the Protheans in ME1 match closer to the Ilos statues.

[Slayer299]

I understand, but in regards to the picture of the "prothean/husk", we've all seen how accurate that is at times. one example being the blue suns and the other being reapers with both entries being incorrect vs. ingame knowledge.



True about the statues lacking the glowing husk elements, my belief is that Ilos did manage to avoid being discovered by the Reapers since I do not see a reason to leave Vigil intact and working for anyone else to find, confusing species who on the off-chance discover it just doesn't make sense to me.

To show my reasoning I point to the topic you linked me to, one of the things discussed by you was why the Reapers left the Conduit intact, which they shouldn't have you said, so wouldn't that logic extend to Vigil? (Yes, I know I'm getting off-topic so I'll end my thought there).

[Zulu_DFA]

Slayer299 wrote...

True about the statues lacking the glowing husk elements, my belief is that Ilos did manage to avoid being discovered by the Reapers since I do not see a reason to leave Vigil intact and working for anyone else to find, confusing species who on the off-chance discover it just doesn't make sense to me.

Ancient Greek statues were painted and had gems for their irises. They don't look like that now, do they?

And Ilos having being missed by the Reapers is the most obvious Vigil's lie, as Ilos wasn't missed by the Asari archaeologists, who only couldn't go there because the Mu Realay was lost. During the Prothean exticnction that information on Ilos that allowed the arcaheologists to learn about it was there (it could not magically appear all over the Galaxy after both the Reapers and Protheans were gone), and the Mu Relay was in place.

And leaving Vigil and Conduit intact makes no sense, unless the Reapers built them.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 30 janvier 2011 - 03:57 .

[TexasToast712]

Xilizhra wrote...

Alienmorph wrote...

No: the beacon shows the old ME1 flashback and then a quick shot of a group of Collectors.

I think it has some Collector-like beings fleeing in fear.

The vision is actually a vision of the Reapers altering the Protheans into Collectors. Thats why you here a drill like noise and see implants in flesh.

This what I interpret it to be.

[Slayer299]

But why make either is my point though? Having made either or both of them seems to be, well, rather stupid on their part. "Yes! Lets' make a back door into the citadel that someone else could find!" or "Yes! Let's f*** with any future meatbags heads who might find this place by creating Vigil and filling their heads with utter rubbish!" I know you aren't saying that, I'm attributing those to the Reapers.



To your point on the statues, I agree we don't have gems for irises, but look at Picasso's work (Self portrait 1938). Some of his portraits don't look look too normal for humans either, so i accept there can be some artist interpretation instead of literal.

[Zulu_DFA]

Slayer299 wrote...

But why make either is my point though? Having made either or both of them seems to be, well, rather stupid on their part. "Yes! Lets' make a back door into the citadel that someone else could find!" or "Yes! Let's f*** with any future meatbags heads who might find this place by creating Vigil and filling their heads with utter rubbish!" I know you aren't saying that, I'm attributing those to the Reapers.

Look, if you scratch out of your mind Vigil's tale just for a moment, you'll find that you know nothing about what is the real function of the Citadel. We can't even tell if it (and the relays) was built by the Reapers, or it was built by those who built the first Reaper... Sovereign's confession that the Citadel and the relays are "the legacy of my kind" can be interpreted as "we inherited them from our precursors". Chorban's message literally says that. But now we already know some very important pieces of information that were missing from Vigil's tale, namely, that the Reapers can travel to London from where they are in a negligent amount of time, and that the Omega station (Citadel's "dark twin") was built by exactly them, and has some role to play in their plans. For all we know the Citaldel may turn out to be an anti-Reaper weapon or something.

There is also a theory that the Citadel may have served as an intergalactic ark ship for an ancient race.

And there is no way ME3 comes without any such a revelation. Don't cry "Retcon!" then, because it's all been in ME1&2 - the little hints and inconsistencies.

Slayer299 wrote...

To your point on the statues, I agree we don't have gems for irises, but look at Picasso's work (Self portrait 1938). Some of his portraits don't look look too normal for humans either, so i accept there can be some artist interpretation instead of literal.

Prothean statues as their version of "post-modern art"? Lol. That explains everything. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]