104 réponses à ce sujet

[Isaantia]

I wish there was a dialogue option before Landsmeet when Alistair is muttering about Arl Eamon's possible claim to the throne for my human noble to say - HEY! I'll be the Teryna of Highever once I get my stuff back and I will get my stuff back and I'll have just as much claim as Eamon does. I feel like you're noble status could have played more into what was happening at Landsmeet. You don't even get to accuse Howe of murdering your family!

[Elanareon]

What? I think it was very similar with the dwarves. You had to do things to have favor in the assembly/landsmeet. You saved the queen, found ot what loghain was doing with the elves, convince the nobles to side with you. Just like doing things to make harrowmont/bhelen looks more favorable

[flippingthemako]

imported_beer wrote...

I hated it. Loathed it. But it was because it forced me to choose between two characters I liked.

From a story perspective, it made sense. My dislike is just a emotional reaction.

I will however wait for the mod that will allow me to persuade Alistair to allow Loghain to stay, and then force Loghain to um...do stuff.

I heard from a little bird that Loghain likes the Brunettes.

I so agree with you.  I can't even finish the game now since I read all the spoilers about the end of the game.  Come on modders, let me be able to pick up my game again and finish it with a more satisfied feeling.

[Obliterati]

It's just so forced, it really breaks the whole "suspension of disbelief" thing.



If I Grey Wardenize Loghain, I can perfectly understand Alistair maybe - maybe - bailing on me and trying to finish the fight on his own. Maybe he thinks I've lost my skillz if I'm dumb enough to trust a backstabber like Loghain. Sure, fine, I can buy that.



But for him to just stamp his feet, quit the party, the war, the Wardens, EVERYTHING, and just run away? After all that has happened? He just quits everything? Because of one choice I've made, even though I've saved his butt a hundred times and he trusted me with his life and everything else just, like, 3 seconds ago?



Absolute goofball nonsense. It just does not make sense in context of either the moment or the story as a whole.

[Drake Sigar]

The thread title had me thinking this would be about the trial by combat, which seemed like a rehash of the Neverwinter Nights 2 trial that ended with a duel regardless of whether you won the trial or not.

[tmp7704]

As for the Landsmeet itself, i was more disappointed with how it seems to go through the rigid sequence of events no matter what you did before in the game. I had a talk with the queen, agreed she's best candidate and we'd be supporting her, told Allistair we'd be supporting the queen instead of him and he was nothing but relieved about it, zero acceptance loss...



... then come the Landsmeet we're pushing Alistair on the throne which gives Loghain reason to get all high and mighty and start the brawl. And then the duel again over Allistair's claim to throne, the one we weren't actually supposed to be making. Oops.

[red8x]

Obliterati wrote...

It's just so forced, it really breaks the whole "suspension of disbelief" thing.

If I Grey Wardenize Loghain, I can perfectly understand Alistair maybe - maybe - bailing on me and trying to finish the fight on his own. Maybe he thinks I've lost my skillz if I'm dumb enough to trust a backstabber like Loghain. Sure, fine, I can buy that.

But for him to just stamp his feet, quit the party, the war, the Wardens, EVERYTHING, and just run away? After all that has happened? He just quits everything? Because of one choice I've made, even though I've saved his butt a hundred times and he trusted me with his life and everything else just, like, 3 seconds ago?

Absolute goofball nonsense. It just does not make sense in context of either the moment or the story as a whole.

Agreed!

Plus I had my character talk to Alistair a lot and I never got from him a desire for vengeance.  I thought he just really missed Duncan and wanted justice, and by justice I thought he meant getting the nobles to work together to defeat the Blight.

tmp7704 wrote...

As for the Landsmeet itself, i was more
disappointed with how it seems to go through the rigid sequence of
events no matter what you did before in the game. I had a talk with the
queen, agreed she's best candidate and we'd be supporting her, told
Allistair we'd be supporting the queen instead of him and he was
nothing but relieved about it, zero acceptance loss...

... then
come the Landsmeet we're pushing Alistair on the throne which gives
Loghain reason to get all high and mighty and start the brawl. And then
the duel again over Allistair's claim to throne, the one we weren't
actually supposed to be making. Oops.

Also agreed! 

Modifié par red8x, 24 novembre 2009 - 07:36 .

[tmp7704]

Obliterati wrote...

If I Grey Wardenize Loghain, I can perfectly understand Alistair maybe - maybe - bailing on me and trying to finish the fight on his own. Maybe he thinks I've lost my skillz if I'm dumb enough to trust a backstabber like Loghain. Sure, fine, I can buy that.

But for him to just stamp his feet, quit the party, the war, the Wardens, EVERYTHING, and just run away?

We don't actually know if he didn't in fact try to fight on his own, do we..? I was under impression once he quits that's the last you hear of him but it's never said just what exactly he did afterwards...

[Taerda]

I've come to accept that the best thing to do is to force Allistair to marry Anora. That seems to be the writer's preferred ending that is setting up everything for a sequel.

[Setz69]

I have to agree I didn't like the landsmeet setting, but for different reasons. Because our PC only got to met Duncan and Allistair, I really have NO emotions for any Grey wardens. I'm like, oh, Loghain killed abunch of people I didn't know. Hmm.



It would have been nice if they had some Cutscenes with them, where you could really get to like the Grey Wardens, and be truly upset when they are all killed. That way when Loghain pulls his "Daughters never grow up, they stay 6 years old with scrapped knees and pigtails" line I don't have to wrench my heart out to kill him.

[Cinnaspice1]

Another aspect of that situation that didn't make sense was as a female human mage I chose Alistair to take the throne and suggested I rule alongside him (his one true love that he couldn't live without a mere moment before). He turned me down in front of everyone - how embarrassing! Then I suggested he marry Anora and although he said he hated her and she was just like her father, he agreed to marry her! What the ****? That makes no sense at all. Marry someone you hate, dump the person you love. ????

[Setz69]

Cinnaspice1 wrote...

Another aspect of that situation that didn't make sense was as a female human mage I chose Alistair to take the throne and suggested I rule alongside him (his one true love that he couldn't live without a mere moment before). He turned me down in front of everyone - how embarrassing! Then I suggested he marry Anora and although he said he hated her and she was just like her father, he agreed to marry her! What the ****? That makes no sense at all. Marry someone you hate, dump the person you love. ????

Mages in DA:O aren't like mages in other games. They aren't really respected, more feared and kept on a leash. A mage can also not hold a title, so you wouldn't be able to be queen. Sadly only nobles can become queens/kings, regardless of how much you do for your country.

[Taerda]

Cinnaspice1 wrote...

Another aspect of that situation that didn't make sense was as a female human mage I chose Alistair to take the throne and suggested I rule alongside him (his one true love that he couldn't live without a mere moment before). He turned me down in front of everyone - how embarrassing! Then I suggested he marry Anora and although he said he hated her and she was just like her father, he agreed to marry her! What the ****? That makes no sense at all. Marry someone you hate, dump the person you love. ????

It is because you are not Noble - it is explained in other ending alternatives, but that is the reason Allistair "can't" marry you ... I had very high persuasive skill (never failed a check) yet, even trying that would have led to failure because I was a mage and unable to inheret titles.

[Cinnaspice1]

Setz69 wrote...

I have to agree I didn't like the landsmeet setting, but for different reasons. Because our PC only got to met Duncan and Allistair, I really have NO emotions for any Grey wardens. I'm like, oh, Loghain killed abunch of people I didn't know. Hmm.

It would have been nice if they had some Cutscenes with them, where you could really get to like the Grey Wardens, and be truly upset when they are all killed. That way when Loghain pulls his "Daughters never grow up, they stay 6 years old with scrapped knees and pigtails" line I don't have to wrench my heart out to kill him.

True.  The only emotions I actually had about the Grey Wardens besides Alistair was when Duncan kills Ser Jory because Jory wants to back out because he's afraid to perform the Joining ritual after seeing Daveth die horribly.  All the man wanted was to go home to his wife.  I thought Duncan was a douche for doing that.  Nobody told me we could die from the ritual when giving the suggestion to become a Grey Warden - I doubt they told Jory or Daveth either.  Duncan's excuse wasn't that good either.  Seemed like cold-blooded murder to me.  So I wasn't that sad when he got killed.  Although all things being equal, he was fairly handsome. 

[Dauphin2]

Taerda wrote...

I've come to accept that the best thing to do is to force Allistair to marry Anora. That seems to be the writer's preferred ending that is setting up everything for a sequel.

Except that Allistair backs out, and you are back to the 'him or me' choice.  Which to me is the biggest issue. I kicked Allistair out in the end, since he wasn't even able to live up to his word.  Having him do so *should* have been a viable outcome of the Landsmeet.

[Taerda]

Dauphin2 wrote...

Taerda wrote...

I've come to accept that the best thing to do is to force Allistair to marry Anora. That seems to be the writer's preferred ending that is setting up everything for a sequel.

Except that Allistair backs out, and you are back to the 'him or me' choice.  Which to me is the biggest issue. I kicked Allistair out in the end, since he wasn't even able to live up to his word.  Having him do so *should* have been a viable outcome of the Landsmeet.

Hmm, Allistair did not back out on my last play-through. He and Anora ended up ruling a Golden Age (I let morrigan have her demon-baby), so both Allistair and I lived.

[tmp7704]

Setz69 wrote...

Mages in DA:O aren't like mages in other games. They aren't really respected, more feared and kept on a leash. A mage can also not hold a title, so you wouldn't be able to be queen.

The game also brings it up earlier, and actually uses it as setup for the whole Redcliffe castle part of the story. Connor's mother tried to keep his talent for magic secret because once it's known, he'd no longer inherit the title and would have to be sent away to a Circle.

[Taleroth]

Dauphin2 wrote...

Taerda wrote...

I've come to accept that the best thing to do is to force Allistair to marry Anora. That seems to be the writer's preferred ending that is setting up everything for a sequel.

Except that Allistair backs out, and you are back to the 'him or me' choice.  Which to me is the biggest issue. I kicked Allistair out in the end, since he wasn't even able to live up to his word.  Having him do so *should* have been a viable outcome of the Landsmeet.

He only backs out if the hostility between him and Anora over Loghain shows up.  Which does not if you kill him yourself at the first opportunity.  Then Anora blames you and Alistair gets away clean.

[menasure]

the problem is that you do not really know all the possible options when you make your first choices. if you say you don't support one side then the storyline starts to assume an other option. later on more and more of the background stories are revealed but you do not have an option to switch sides anymore. other than that i found it pretty annoying to have some fighting in between the whole landsmeet story because it totally breaks the immersion when you're killed have to reload and watch the whole thing more than once.

Modifié par menasure, 24 novembre 2009 - 08:27 .

[Dauphin2]

Taerda wrote...

Dauphin2 wrote...

Taerda wrote...

I've come to accept that the best thing to do is to force Allistair to marry Anora. That seems to be the writer's preferred ending that is setting up everything for a sequel.

Except that Allistair backs out, and you are back to the 'him or me' choice.  Which to me is the biggest issue. I kicked Allistair out in the end, since he wasn't even able to live up to his word.  Having him do so *should* have been a viable outcome of the Landsmeet.

Hmm, Allistair did not back out on my last play-through. He and Anora ended up ruling a Golden Age (I let morrigan have her demon-baby), so both Allistair and I lived.

Maybe you killed Logain. But letting Logain live made Allistair become quite the ass. I couldn't see killing Logain, as his motivations were honorable, if his actions were not. He deserved the chance to make up for it, and was a valuable asset.  The fact Allistair didn't like that decision didn't give him the right to go back on his word.

[syllogi]

Dauphin2 wrote...

Taerda wrote...

I've come to accept that the best thing to do is to force Allistair to marry Anora. That seems to be the writer's preferred ending that is setting up everything for a sequel.

Except that Allistair backs out, and you are back to the 'him or me' choice.  Which to me is the biggest issue. I kicked Allistair out in the end, since he wasn't even able to live up to his word.  Having him do so *should* have been a viable outcome of the Landsmeet.

Alistair will marry Anora, if you make the right choices at the Landsmeet.  I believe you have to suggest it to Anora ahead of time, and definitely don't let Alistair kill Loghain (do it yourself). 

It really, really irks me that Alistair running off in a huff is even a choice.  Personally, I would never choose Loghain over Alistair (I'll watch that ending on YouTube, but I'd never make that choice ingame), but the idea that he would rather run away and forsake his duty than deal with not getting immediate revenge seems so *not* what Alistair has been about the entire game.  If he had been harping on revenge against Loghain the whole time, and talking about how much he hated the guy, maybe I could understand, but being a Grey Warden, ending the Blight, and helping people was what was most important to him up to that point. 

If Alistair had left your party, for instance, once you chose to let Loghain live, and shown up in the final battle the way Irving or Eamon does, I would understand.  But the Alistair who runs away seems like a completely different person from the one who gladly would strike the final blow against the archdemon, and considers it a privilege and an honor.

[Akka le Vil]

The Landsmeet was nice, but I felt it lacked depth of options.
Not enough ways to battle wits with Loghain, not enough formulations to reinforce or diminish the impact of the revelations you make about him.
Also, the choices were a bit too much exclusives, and how you can pick and chose the future of the nation in five minutes felt a bit weird.

Though one thing well done was precisely Alistair not backing down about Loghain. Seriously, for once a person is believably protrayed, and the answers of half the people are completely outlandish.
Imagine the whole family of your wife (or husband) was slaughtered, and you came and interceded to the jury so the guy isn't sent to prison but is sent to make some social work in the same place than your spouse, and (s)he now has to cooperate with him...
Good luck trying to make a persuade check on your better half to convince her (s)he's just a "whiny douchebag hell-bent on vengeance". Something tells me YOU would be the one everyone think as a bastard.

Seriously, you should perhaps try to actually really think the situation. He's not whiny. YOU are the dirty backstabber.

Modifié par Akka le Vil, 24 novembre 2009 - 09:01 .

[tmp7704]

TeenZombie wrote...

If Alistair had left your party, for instance, once you chose to let Loghain live, and shown up in the final battle the way Irving or Eamon does, I would understand.

Both Irving and Eamon have the advantage of knowing when the main army performs the attack, as well as where this attack actually takes place. After Alistair quits, he's out of this loop -- he might well be in Redcliffe where the battle was originally expected to happen, or on his way to the capital city, or even long dead after trying to storm the castle entirely on his own.

If he actually did show up in that final battle... that'd quite cheapen the whole split thing during Landsmeet imo as it'd make it easy to "eat the cake and still keep it" getting both Loghain and Alistair. As it is, it's left up the the player's imagination what happens to Alistair. That plenty people are so quick to write him off and decide he'd completely quit the fight... it's interesting as it doesn't show much faith in him.

[Taerda]

Dauphin2 wrote...

Taerda wrote...

Dauphin2 wrote...

Taerda wrote...

I've come to accept that the best thing to do is to force Allistair to marry Anora. That seems to be the writer's preferred ending that is setting up everything for a sequel.

Except that Allistair backs out, and you are back to the 'him or me' choice.  Which to me is the biggest issue. I kicked Allistair out in the end, since he wasn't even able to live up to his word.  Having him do so *should* have been a viable outcome of the Landsmeet.

Hmm, Allistair did not back out on my last play-through. He and Anora ended up ruling a Golden Age (I let morrigan have her demon-baby), so both Allistair and I lived.

Maybe you killed Logain. But letting Logain live made Allistair become quite the ass. I couldn't see killing Logain, as his motivations were honorable, if his actions were not. He deserved the chance to make up for it, and was a valuable asset.  The fact Allistair didn't like that decision didn't give him the right to go back on his word.

Ahh... yes. I kill Loghain. My first play-thru was as a Noble warrior - so Howe (and Loghain as Howe's Lord) both are people I will kill every time. I even kill Ser Cwhateverhernameis when she tries to arrest me just because no one will interfere with my vengeance on Howe and Loghain.

[Bfler]

The decision to kill Loghain was right but how it is implemented into the game seems a bit too drastic. An execution in front of all people, especially the daughter, combined with a massive fountain of blood.

Modifié par Bfler, 24 novembre 2009 - 09:02 .