184 réponses à ce sujet

[wulfsturm]

Harid wrote...

You cannot realistically, do the saving the realm thing and be a good parent at the same time.  You would either have to leave the child with another parent/sitter, to which you are a bad parent by abandoning your child, or you would have to carry your child around with you, which is putting you child in unneeded danger for little reason, which also makes you a bad parent.  In order to be a good parent, you would not be able to do any of the things that you tend to do in RPG, battling monsters, saving people, etc, because you have to spend time watching your children.  And you can't do a 9-5 kinda thing when you are in dungeons killing Dragons and Darkspawn.  You have to either be a bad parent, or suspend disbelief for the amount of time you are spending away from your family.

/Shrug

My parents wern't around me 24/7 - they had things to do, jobs to keep. So long as your character could come back and visit your child every once and a while, I would not consider that bad parentage.

And besides, in the past more often then not it was the household slaves / nurse maids who raised the child, not the parents.

[Harid]

wulfsturm wrote...

Harid wrote...

You cannot realistically, do the saving the realm thing and be a good parent at the same time.  You would either have to leave the child with another parent/sitter, to which you are a bad parent by abandoning your child, or you would have to carry your child around with you, which is putting you child in unneeded danger for little reason, which also makes you a bad parent.  In order to be a good parent, you would not be able to do any of the things that you tend to do in RPG, battling monsters, saving people, etc, because you have to spend time watching your children.  And you can't do a 9-5 kinda thing when you are in dungeons killing Dragons and Darkspawn.  You have to either be a bad parent, or suspend disbelief for the amount of time you are spending away from your family.

/Shrug

My parents wern't around me 24/7 - they had things to do, jobs to keep. So long as your character could come back and visit your child every once and a while, I would not consider that bad parentage.

And besides, in the past more often then not it was the household slaves / nurse maids who raised the child, not the parents.

Then embrace the fact that you are in fact, playing a bad parent sim and don't get butt hurt about it when it is called out.

Slaying monsters in dungeons isn't a 9-5 job.  Having slaves watch your kid is. . .you not being a good parent.

Modifié par Harid, 30 janvier 2011 - 03:40 .

[wulfsturm]

Harid wrote...

Then embrace the fact that you are in fact, playing a bad parent sim and don't get butt hurt about it when it is called out.

Slaying monsters in dungeons isn't a 9-5 job.

Neither is being a parent for many people.

And I'm not "butt hurt" but thanks for your consideration.

And you should read more about history, I.E. Roman noble and royal upbringing, it may be enlightening for you. I'd like to see you call most Roman Emperors "bad parents" to thier faces.

Modifié par wulfsturm, 30 janvier 2011 - 03:43 .

[Harid]

wulfsturm wrote...

Harid wrote...

Then embrace the fact that you are in fact, playing a bad parent sim and don't get butt hurt about it when it is called out.

Slaying monsters in dungeons isn't a 9-5 job.

Neither is being a parent for many people.

And I'm not "butt hurt" but thanks for your consideration.

Well, that's why there aren't a lot of good parents out there.

Though I would argue that unless you are a housewife/husband, watching your kids is not a job.

And by today's standards, Roman Emperors were in fact, bad parents.  I'd say it to their faces no problem, because they are dust at the moment.

Modifié par Harid, 30 janvier 2011 - 03:45 .

[TheButterflyEffect]

^^Yes, that.

Modifié par TheButterflyEffect, 30 janvier 2011 - 03:43 .

[Beocat]

Harid wrote...
In order to be a good parent, you would not be able to do any of the things that you tend to do in RPG, battling monsters, saving people, etc, because you have to spend time watching your children.  And you can't do a 9-5 kinda thing when you are in dungeons killing Dragons and Darkspawn.  You have to either be a bad parent, or suspend disbelief for the amount of time you are spending away from your family.  And if you are suspending disbelief, then you are in fact, playing a bad parent sim.

Not even going to count the general sidequests that a parent should not be sacrificing their lives for when they have a kid at home.

So....what you are saying is that all parents who serve in the military in order to provide a safe and better future for their children are bad parents when they are deployed?    I respect your right to your opinion, but I must disagree.

You know, you should consider that being present for your child's life does not mean that you care about your child or that you are a good parent.  When you are able to spend time with your kids outside of work and you choose to take care of your children in that time because you care, that makes you a good parent.  Going off to war to protect your Hawke-spawn should make the war more meaningful to you and make any sacrifices you make actually worthwhile.

Modifié par Beocat, 30 janvier 2011 - 03:46 .

[SirOccam]

Harid wrote...

You cannot realistically, do the saving the realm thing and be a good parent at the same time.  You would either have to leave the child with another parent/sitter, to which you are a bad parent by abandoning your child, or you would have to carry your child around with you, which is putting you child in unneeded danger for little reason, which also makes you a bad parent.  In order to be a good parent, you would not be able to do any of the things that you tend to do in RPG, battling monsters, saving people, etc, because you have to spend time watching your children.  And you can't do a 9-5 kinda thing when you are in dungeons killing Dragons and Darkspawn.  You have to either be a bad parent, or suspend disbelief for the amount of time you are spending away from your family.  And if you are suspending disbelief, then you are in fact, playing a bad parent sim.

Wash: Well, I'm not sure that now is the best time to bring a tiny little helpless person into our lives.
Zoe: That excuse is getting a little worn, honey.
Wash: It's not an excuse, dear, it's objective assessment. I can't help that it stays relevant.
Zoe: I don't give a good gorram about relevant, Wash, or objective. And I ain't so afraid of losing something that I ain't gonna try to have it. You and I would make one beautiful baby. And I wanna meet that child one day. Period.

'Nuff said.

Modifié par SirOccam, 30 janvier 2011 - 03:46 .

[wulfsturm]

Harid wrote...

Well, that's why there aren't a lot of good parents out there.

Though I would argue that unless you are a housewife/husband, watching your kids is not a job.

And by today's standards, Roman Emperors were in fact, bad parents.  I'd say it to their faces no problem, because they are dust at the moment.

Yes, because DA has so much more in common with modern times and not say... Roman times as I was talking about.

[Harid]

Beocat wrote...

Harid wrote...
In order to be a good parent, you would not be able to do any of the things that you tend to do in RPG, battling monsters, saving people, etc, because you have to spend time watching your children.  And you can't do a 9-5 kinda thing when you are in dungeons killing Dragons and Darkspawn.  You have to either be a bad parent, or suspend disbelief for the amount of time you are spending away from your family.  And if you are suspending disbelief, then you are in fact, playing a bad parent sim.

Not even going to count the general sidequests that a parent should not be sacrificing their lives for when they have a kid at home.

So....what you are saying is that all parents who serve in the military in order to provide and safe and better future for their children are bad parents when they are deployed?    I respect your right to your opinion, but I must disagree.

You know, you should consider that being present for your child's life does not mean that you care about your child or that you are a good parent.  When you are able to spend time with your kids outside of work and you choose to take care of your children in that time because you care, that makes you a good parent.  Going off to war to protect your Hawke-spawn should make the war more meaningful to you and make any sacrifices you make actually worthwhile.

I'm in the military, and I would say that they are, yes.  Which is why there are many documented problems with military children.

www.jointogether.org/news/research/summaries/2009/military-kids-at-high-risk-of.html

I respect what our men and women in the military do, but they aren't parents when they are away.  They cannot be.

I feel sorry for people that want to put kids in harms way for the sake of having them.  I know it's a video game, but I don't want to play a bad parent sim, sorry.  The fact that you guys are quoting Fable, a game series that isn't really all that good, and Firefly, a series its 'fans' could not even properly support is not helping your case.

Modifié par Harid, 30 janvier 2011 - 03:52 .

[wulfsturm]

Harid wrote...
I'm in the military, and I would say that they are, yes.  Which is why there are many documented problems with military children.

www.jointogether.org/news/research/summaries/2009/military-kids-at-high-risk-of.html

I respect what our men and women in the military do, but they aren't parents when they are away.  They cannot be.

I feel sorry for people that want to put kids in harms way for the sake of having them.  I know it's a video game, but I don't want to play a bad parent sim, sorry.  The fact that you guys a quoting Fable, a game series that isn't really all that good is not helping your case.

The only person who is forcing you to do anything is you. So please, don't lay the blame on your own decisions on anyone other then yourself, its irresponsible.

Modifié par wulfsturm, 30 janvier 2011 - 03:54 .

[SirOccam]

Harid wrote...

I feel sorry for people that want to put kids in harms way for the sake of having them.  I know it's a video game, but I don't want to play a bad parent sim, sorry.  The fact that you guys are quoting Fable, a game series that isn't really all that good, and Firefly, a series its 'fans' could not even properly support is not helping your case.

So if Firefly hadn't been cancelled, then suddenly you'd have a whole different outlook on child-rearing?

[Harid]

wulfsturm wrote...

Harid wrote...
I'm in the military, and I would say that they are, yes.  Which is why there are many documented problems with military children.

www.jointogether.org/news/research/summaries/2009/military-kids-at-high-risk-of.html

I respect what our men and women in the military do, but they aren't parents when they are away.  They cannot be.

I feel sorry for people that want to put kids in harms way for the sake of having them.  I know it's a video game, but I don't want to play a bad parent sim, sorry.  The fact that you guys a quoting Fable, a game series that isn't really all that good is not helping your case.

The only person who is forcing you to do anything is you. So please, don't lay the blame on your own decisions on anyone other then yourself, its irresponsible.

I don't know what you are going on about at the moment, but ok.

I don't have any kids.

Bioware doesn't currently have a history of making children optional.  I could not romance Aerie, and not have a kid, for instance.  And the kid mechanic in Baldur's Gate 2 was stupid.

If you want to play a bad parent sim, then just come out and say it.  But don't get mad that certain people don't want to play a game where they have to be bad parents in their game.   It's not fair to the good parents out there, or I suppose, the wannabes either.

Modifié par Harid, 30 janvier 2011 - 04:05 .

[TheButterflyEffect]

You're wrong.

[Harid]

TheButterflyEffect wrote...

You're wrong.

Thanks for that well thought out and fact filled post.  I would like to subscibe to your newsletter.

[TheButterflyEffect]

Everything you say is all trash. My Father was in the army and he was away often, but I still love him and he was still an awesome Dad to me. Always will be.

[Harid]

TheButterflyEffect wrote...

Everything you say is all trash. My Father was in the army and he was away often, but I still love him and he was still an awesome Dad to me. Always will be.

I really couldn't care less about your anecdotal evidence, but no one likes when people talk badly about their fathers, so for that I apologize.

[wulfsturm]

Harid wrote...

I don't know what you are going on about at the moment, but ok.

I don't have any kids.

Bioware doesn't currently have a history of making children optional.  I could not romance Aerie, and not have a kid, for instance.  And the kid mechanic in Baldur's Gate 2 was stupid.

If you want to play a bad parent sim, then just come out and say it.  But don't get mad that certain people don't want to play a game where they have to be bad parents in their game.   It's not fair to the good parents out there, or I suppose, the wannabes either.

I was talking about you saying that you didn't want to be "forced to play a bad parent sim" since aparently you don't have free will and cannot make your own decisions on what and what not to play.

And what do you know about good parenting? You being childless yourself, it's a little hypocritical. It's like saying: "Hey guys, I don't know how to be a parent because I don't have any children, but I definetly know how to be a good parent!"

You also seem to have this odd fetish about me being  "mad" at you, even when I've been perfectly civil and calm with you, so far. Let me ask you this: Why would I be mad at someone I don't know, and don't care to know? I'm sorry but you're not that important in the great scheme of things.

[TheButterflyEffect]

And I couldn't care less about your crock "evidence" and excuses for blowing hot air and trashing military parents. That's extremely offensive and it's far from true.

Modifié par TheButterflyEffect, 30 janvier 2011 - 04:15 .

[KLUME777]

II That Burn In Ya Ass II wrote...

No she only human for wanting kids =) but yea i believe it was stated by David that you dont have kids in Da2

Dammit    I totally want kids in DA2, shes not a freak.

[Harid]

wulfsturm wrote...

Harid wrote...

I don't know what you are going on about at the moment, but ok.

I don't have any kids.

Bioware doesn't currently have a history of making children optional.  I could not romance Aerie, and not have a kid, for instance.  And the kid mechanic in Baldur's Gate 2 was stupid.

If you want to play a bad parent sim, then just come out and say it.  But don't get mad that certain people don't want to play a game where they have to be bad parents in their game.   It's not fair to the good parents out there, or I suppose, the wannabes either.

I was talking about you saying that you didn't want to be "forced to play a bad parent sim" since aparently you don't have free will and cannot make your own decisions on what and what not to play.

And what do you know about good parenting? You being childless yourself, it's a little hypocritical. It's like saying: "Hey guys, I don't know how to be a parent because I don't have any children, but I definetly know how to be a good parent!"

You also seem to have this odd fetish about me being  "mad" at you, even when I've been perfectly civil and calm with you, so far. Let me ask you this: Why would I be mad at someone I don't know, and don't care to know? I'm sorry but you're not that important in the great scheme of things.

Point 1:  If you are forced to have children in the course of a relationship, then you would be forced to play a bad parent sim.  I have covered this, many times.
Point 2:  I don't have children, but knowing what is neccessary to be a good parent is not rocket science.  There are not only millions of books on the subject, but I have first hand experiance with my upbringing to go off on.  I may not be a good parent when I have children, but I very well know I'd try.  Thus the "wannabe" caveat.  I am a wannabe.
Point 3: Whatever?  I don't really care if you are mad or not, my bigger issue is how you cannot understand how not being there for your kid, having your kid in potential warzones, and other issues don't make you a bad parent.

Modifié par Harid, 30 janvier 2011 - 04:21 .

[TheButterflyEffect]

Well as long as a Warden of neither sex gets to have kids, then I'm OK with it.



If one sex gets to have kids then not the other than that's biased and unfair and I get pissy.

[SirOccam]

Also you have to remember, Harid, that this isn't real life. It's not a sim. No harm will come to the child unless the plot decrees that it should. This arbitrary declaration that any parent who faces any kind of danger on a regular basis is a bad parent is a bit ridiculous. Children, especially in stories, don't need perfect childhoods. In fact the less perfect they are, the more dramatic potential there is.

Look at characters like Mission Vao, or Vin from Sanderson's Mistborn series, or Kvothe from The Name of the Wind, or Azoth from Weeks' Night Angel trilogy, or hell, any story where the protagonist starts off as a child. There's certainly no shortage of those. The child will turn out as well as he or she is supposed to, regardless of the circumstances of his or her upbringing.

Actually I think the idea of Hawke raising a child while doing the whole revolutionary thing could be really interesting. The child could grow up idolizing or resenting Hawke. I'm sure either way it would make for a cool story. It definitely reminds me of Vin from Mistborn: the Final Empire, if you think of Kelsier as a father figure.

[TheButterflyEffect]

SirOccam wrote...

Also you have to remember, Harid, that this isn't real life. It's not a sim. No harm will come to the child unless the plot decrees that it should. This arbitrary declaration that any parent who faces any kind of danger on a regular basis is a bad parent is a bit ridiculous. Children, especially in stories, don't need perfect childhoods. In fact the less perfect they are, the more dramatic potential there is.

Look at characters like Mission Vao, or Vin from Sanderson's Mistborn series, or Kvothe from The Name of the Wind, or Azoth from Weeks' Night Angel trilogy, or hell, any story where the protagonist starts off as a child. There's certainly no shortage of those. The child will turn out as well as he or she is supposed to, regardless of the circumstances of his or her upbringing.

Actually I think the idea of Hawke raising a child while doing the whole revolutionary thing could be really interesting. The child could grow up idolizing or resenting Hawke. I'm sure either way it would make for a cool story. It definitely reminds me of Vin from Mistborn: the Final Empire, if you think of Kelsier as a father figure.

I agree with you 100%.

[Harid]

SirOccam wrote...

Also you have to remember, Harid, that this isn't real life. It's not a sim. No harm will come to the child unless the plot decrees that it should. This arbitrary declaration that any parent who faces any kind of danger on a regular basis is a bad parent is a bit ridiculous. Children, especially in stories, don't need perfect childhoods. In fact the less perfect they are, the more dramatic potential there is.

Covered this under "suspension of disbelief."  You can't have it both ways.  You can't say it's a game when it comes to the plot, but then it's not a game in the fact that it's not a sim.  I don't tend to read fantasy due to a lack of minority characters.  So your examples are lost to me.

Modifié par Harid, 30 janvier 2011 - 04:25 .

[wulfsturm]

Harid wrote...

Point 1:  If you are forced to have children in the course of a relationship, then you would be forced to play a bad parent sim.  I have covered this, many times.
Point 2:  I don't have children, but knowing what is neccessary to be a good parent is not rocket science.  There are not only millions of books on the subject, but I have first hand experiance with my upbringing to go off on.  I may not be a good parent when I have children, but I very well know I'd try.  Thus the "wannabe" caveat.  I am a wannabe.
Point 3: Whatever?  I don't really care if you are mad or not, my bigger issue is how you cannot understand how not being there for your kid, having your kid in potential warzones, and other issues don't make you a bad parent.

Point 1: Your opinion.

Point 2: Many parents would disagree with you.

Point 3. Your opinion.

So tell me, do you have any conjectural evidence that you can bring to back-up your statement? Or are you going to keep on giving your opinion to people that don't really care about it?

Modifié par wulfsturm, 30 janvier 2011 - 04:24 .