115 réponses à ce sujet

[Sabariel]

I don't allow others to have that kind of power over me. So no, I haven't had anything ruined for me.

[Jacen987]

I personally see these discussions,as a chance to reevaluate what i like or dont like about the game.

But i do understand where you are coming from OP.Last year i had a lengthy discussion about Starcraft 2 over at the "What a huge disappointment "thread.

Its easy to get caught up and upset,when you see such a huge middle finger to your beliefs and experience.Needless to say the discussion lasted about a month,going through everything - from pacing,to plot-holes and inconsistencies,to prequel comparison.I spend quite some time(and about five long paragraphs a day)along with two other gentlemen trying to redeem the game,for myself, and against the same ten posters who were just bluntly stating it was utter trash.(mostly by repeating the same tired and whiny arguments agiain and agian)After i while it got ugly and civility was,for a short time ,thrown out the window.

Needless to say after a month,40 pages and alot of soul-searching, i came out accepting quite a few proven flaws,but i at the same time i had discovered quite a few hidden gems that made me like it even more.

I view there sort of threads now as a chance to delve even further into a game strengths.Still mostly i tend to stay away from them or approach them with caution.Its really easy to come across something that diminishes your experiences.Fortunately alot of people are just trolling and others come with "I just didnt like it" billboard.The latter case are hopeless,the direction through them off early on and they spend the rest of the game,looking for things to hate on.

So stand by your opinion and stand by your experience.Even to this day,nobody on Earth can convince me,ME2 had a crappy story,or ME2 was better than ME1,or ME2 game mechanics arnt just a polished or dubbed-down version of ME1s,born out of laziness.And i still chuckle,when people complain about the "oh so hard to manage" ME1 inventory or that ME2 even has one.Im like,were you born yesterday,what is this baby's first RPG.

Modifié par Jacen987, 30 janvier 2011 - 07:47 .

[Geth_Prime]

Well I only jooned yesterday but already I've been warned by someone that my enthusiasm for Mass Effect will soon be drained.

[marshalleck]

Geth_Prime wrote...

Well I only jooned yesterday but already I've been warned by someone that my enthusiasm for Mass Effect will soon be drained.

Only because you will soon be tired of the following threads posted daily:

which squadmates returning/getting cameos in ME3?
is Cerberus/TIM really that bad?
I want "Don't Fear the Reaper" for ME3 end credits song!
is ME2 really an RPG?
Do you hate thermal clips?

and...

Multiplayer/co-op in ME3??

Modifié par marshalleck, 30 janvier 2011 - 09:31 .

[DJBare]

If the argument/discussion is coherent then I "might" change my view on something, I tend to bypass posts that resemble "wtf is this!?!?!?!?" or "this is not $%#£ing lore!!!!!!!!!!!!"

[Mister Mida]

Well, all I can say is 'too bad for you', OP.

[Icinix]

It's funny (well it's not, but I've had a few beers and can't think of a better word), but I hate the forums (not these ones, but getting caught on forums in general) and I never used to get on them or care much for them. So what happened was I loved Mass Effect (the first one) like it is my all time favorite game. I can replay it now and still get get all gooey and slightly aroused. I was so pumped for Mass Effect 2, and played it and was like wow, this is awesome. I love this but..and there were some big buts (*cough* Miranda..haha..pun..er..nevermind)....so after reading a few reviews after I'd played it, so many said 'They took the criticism from ME1..' upon investigation I found out there was a huge uproar about the Mako and Elevators (two parts of the game I had no issue with, indeed, enjoyed.) so thought to myself..RIGHT...if others can have their voice heard...so must I.



So now I rant. Now I debate. Now I argue. Sometimes I post random crap, sometimes I like to think I post something insightful, sometimes I forget what I've said and contradict myself somewhat...but the point is, my voice is heard..I hope...as are others...we as Forum dwellers can now hopefully have some impact on the games and game companies we love. Our feedback when broken down probably has quite a bit of intelligence and information that the game companies can use and maybe even in rare circumstances show something that they haven't previously considered...and maybe help create better games for everyone.



..and if not. Well, it's a great way to kill ten minutes on some idle evening what you're waiting for the pizza to finish cooking.

[MC P Pants]

I see where you're coming from with this, though fortunately my Mass Effect experiance remains a positive one. Ive taken part in some really positive topics, and if im to be honest iv'e also taken part in a few instances of nerd rage - not my proudest moments for sure - and i really hope i havent ruined anyones experiance in this fantastic universe. Your topic has got me thinking about how i come across, and i dont want to be the reason anyone at all has a crappy time in this games community! But man, after 5 runs frough ME1, and 7 through ME2, visiting this forum nearly daily for the last year - im well and truly obsessed with this game and i really doubt anyone could say anything to put me off it. And i hope no one tries!
Maybe when ME3 comes out it'll renew your love for the game, who knows - but try not to let the herd ruin your fun

[Phaedon]

Scimal wrote...
I'd say that's probably par for the course.

It's why I don't visit the DA:O forums that often, and since I just recently discovered ME, I checked out the community and felt it even a tad worse.

The problem with most of the threads I see is that people try to feel better about the ambiguity present in parts of the game(s) by shooting it down. Unfortunately, since this is a Sci-Fi RPG (Good lord, BioWare, you just had to grab me by the balls by making one, didn't you?), most people don't have enough scientific knowledge to judge what's a giant plot hole and what's possible.

There are also a lot of amateur writers/authors out there who are jealous of the success of the (relatively) simple story.

Some complaints are valid (the pacing of ME2 could be better, and the Mako portions of ME1 did need improvement)... but the internet is full of "experts" who will point out large portions of the game world that don't make sense.

As a bona-fide scientist (Biologist) and a holder of an English degree, I actually enjoy the game. As much as the writers will try, they will never be 100% scientifically accurate - that would be a very boring game, and they will never expound upon the story as they want. Time limits are imposed by both publishers and finances, so while the writers and company would really like to flesh out each and every character with a full 15-hour experience per person, it's just not feasible.

What's important is that, compared to the other games out at the moment (even amongst other Sci-Fi RPGs), it is very good. Good enough to get me to play through it several times over.

Keep what you like, acknowledge the flaws, and hold what you really enjoy close. Some things will always perplex me (like, why does Liara have eyebrows?), but that's miniscule compared to the %#!^ing awesome ending to ME1 or the awe I felt learning about the Protheans.

Basically, I suppose, just play the game. If you like it, like it. If others don't, let them wallow in the destruction of their own satsifaction.

True enough, everyone is a writer/scientist/diplomat/tactician/Reaper advisor around here.

[CanadAvenger]

I had never went on these forums until ME2's release. I had enjoyed the game immensely and after a while all these strongly negative posts started appearing. I read them and actually agreed with some of the viewpoints, while strongly disagreeing with others. I started playing the game specifically to find these negativities so I could see what all the fuss was about.

Back then I tried my hardest to defend the points I liked and attack the points I did not, often resulting in 100+ page threads and quote pyramids bigger than the Pyramids of Gizeh. Then BW started cracking down on that crap, and I restricted my conversation to social groups and eventually just didn't log in anymore.

After playing LotSB and doing more runs of ME1 & 2 I came back to see (likely because of the ps3 release) those ridiculous threads surface again. I know better now. Both games had things to be improved on, and things that were outstanding.

I've learned that instead of having pointless arguments with people over the same thing, I create a "critical summary" of things from both games on a particular topic (the galaxy map, for example) that I enjoyed and describe ways that I think they could be improved, and shine the light on things that have been done well.

What people aren't realizing is that constructive criticism - good and bad, are what is needed to initiate change and generate ideas. Early on it was over the top praise and over the top negativity... "I hate this because it sucks", etc.
I've learned from the experience I had on ME2s release, and I don't intend to have the angry forumites witless rage ruin my game experience.

Neither should anyone else.

Modifié par CanadAvenger, 30 janvier 2011 - 10:13 .

[Phategod1]

marshalleck wrote...

Geth_Prime wrote...

Well I only jooned yesterday but already I've been warned by someone that my enthusiasm for Mass Effect will soon be drained.

Only because you will soon be tired of the following threads posted daily:

which squadmates returning/getting cameos in ME3?
is Cerberus/TIM really that bad?
I want "Don't Fear the Reaper" for ME3 end credits song!
is ME2 really an RPG?
Do you hate thermal clips?

and...

Multiplayer/co-op in ME3??

Dont forget the obligatory ME1 was better then ME2 threads. 

[Naughty Bear]

RDS051 wrote...

Hey peoples.

Leafing through several different ME2 forum pages, reading every man's voice about,
A) Losing/gaining the Mako/Hammerhead,
Love interests, or lack thereof,
C) ME2 being an RPG or not,
and going through all bile and trollin', I realized something.

I used to like Mass Effect. Don't get me wrong, I still like it, but I used to love it, unconditionally.
Every little thing that happened was amazing, cool and alien,  the species, landing on unchartered
planets and discovering them in my own lil' tank, saving the universe from imminent doom -
It was all beautiful.

But then you guys had to come along with all your colorful different opinions (And those of you who
voice that opinion rather.. Strongly), trying to make sense of everything, tying logic into everything, 
and it completely ruined the game for me, 'cos I agreed. "Yeah, now you mention it, that's rather off,"
or "This could'a definitely be done better, BioWare," and so on, devoutly agreeing with those comments,
and furiously disagreeing with others.

I'm only half serious, of course, for those whose toes are easily stepped on.
Noone's forcing me to read the forums, after all, though I'm usually not much of a forum-goer. 

Now, I'm wondering, does anyone else experience that? Going into a game, naiveté-mode engaged,
and come out grim and soiled, by all those evil forumers?

Ponder on that, friends. Or not, of course.

Someone forgot to change their tampon this morning.

[Rune-Chan]

I agree with what you are saying in principle. I also played Mass effect 2 for the first time with no complaints. Hell, even the Human Reaper didn't phase me. It's only after discussing it with other people that I started paying attention to the cracks within the game.



Obviously it's our faults for doing so when I imagine we are all smart enough to realise that this happens but it is still frustrating.



It doesn't change my opinion that Mass Effect 2 was just a great a game as Mass Effect, if not more so but it has changed my perceptions somewhat.

[Severyx]

Sorry to hear that, OP. I'm even more sorry to hear that you let others ruin it for you. Personally, I avoid opinionated threads like 'Why such and such is bad for Mass Effect' or 'Why this or that is wrong/stupid/yadda yadda'. It's all subjective and I have no intention of letting whiney insta-experts drone on in front of my eyes about utterly pointless topics and 'discussions'. If someone has a genuine question or concern that can be answered, I hop in and supply them with either concrete information as established as canon, or with information noted as heavily implied by game/book canon. Elsewise I mark troll topics and point out my disappointment with threads repeated twenty times over with reaction face images (here's looking at you, ME3 multiplayer topic).

In short: "I'm tired of your disingenuous assertions."

[Ghost Warrior]

I agree with the OP.I enjoyed game so much I didn't even notice some MAJOR plot holes until I came to these forums.I still love the game,but I loved it even more before.I won't repeat the same mistake again when ME3 comes out.

[mineralica]

Phategod1 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Geth_Prime wrote...

Well I only jooned yesterday but already I've been warned by someone that my enthusiasm for Mass Effect will soon be drained.

Only because you will soon be tired of the following threads posted daily:

which squadmates returning/getting cameos in ME3?
is Cerberus/TIM really that bad?
I want "Don't Fear the Reaper" for ME3 end credits song!
is ME2 really an RPG?
Do you hate thermal clips?

and...

Multiplayer/co-op in ME3??

Dont forget the obligatory ME1 was better then ME2 threads. 

...
Keep or destroy Collectors' base?
What romance is better?/ Who should I pick?
ME3 will suck if...
And any kind of troll threads

[ZLurps]

Could be worse. I recall reading one Sci-Fi series forums and expected some sort of clever discussions because there is that Science in Sc-Fi. Oh man, was I disappointed. 

I think the most important thing is to realise that different kind of things appeal to different crowds. If love interests are big part for someone who is playing the game, why would that change anything for someone who likes different aspects of game.
Also, sometimes reading strong opinions from someone you think is ranting because s/he can't see the wood from the trees can be frustrating, but then think if that really is your problem or maybe it's someone else who have a problem? 

Then, maybe it's easy for me to not get too involved, maybe because I'm bit old and I basically started writing here because my English is in awful shape and writing to these forums is good exercise. There are very positive things on these forums too, I enjoy ME universe a lot and that these forums are very tolerable towards people who don't speak English as native language is a nice bonus.

Modifié par ZLurps, 30 janvier 2011 - 01:48 .

[Gleym]

ITT opinions are bad and everybody should just smile and nod at anything that happens.

[lovgreno]

I try to give a balanced opinion of everything and I hope that I haven't ruined anything for anyone.
But actualy the reason I sometimes critisise ME1 and 2 is that I like both games very much and I want ME3 to be even better. If I didn't like them I wouldn't even bother being here at all. I think many who critisise the game does it for the same reason as me.

Modifié par lovgreno, 30 janvier 2011 - 01:57 .

[Da_Lion_Man]

I can understand you a bit OP. I'm not too bothered by this anymore because I'm aware a lot of people like to be obnoxious on the internet.

I think forums would be a better place if people were more respectful and don't go hating on something without elaboration or because they can.



BSN is actually quite alright... Bungie forums are much worse or even better, go to the Socom 4 forums since the developers made the fanbase pissed a few days ago. Not a pretty sight.

[Maestro975]

Cru Hunter wrote...

If no one complained, how would anything get better? Sure, there are some people who can be over-zealous about it. Still, there are some productive things that come forward. You're blaming people for wanting the next game to be better?

But half of those complainers will ALWAYS be ****ing about something. Like Star Trek: TOS geeks. ****ing like whiny ****s since TNG came out. Then, when TNG brought in the Borg and actually started to get good, their complaining actually got worse. TOS geeks deserve every FO they get.

Modifié par Maestro975, 30 janvier 2011 - 03:01 .

[Guitar-Hero]

SOoo truue... my advice.. You are thinking about your experience in a very objective manner.. But its still your experience, and no amount of trolls or wise-asses can take that away from you

[Burdokva]

RDS051 wrote...

Hey peoples.

Leafing through several different ME2 forum pages, reading every man's voice about,
A) Losing/gaining the Mako/Hammerhead,
Love interests, or lack thereof,
C) ME2 being an RPG or not,
and going through all bile and trollin', I realized something.

I used to like Mass Effect. Don't get me wrong, I still like it, but I used to love it, unconditionally.
Every little thing that happened was amazing, cool and alien,  the species, landing on unchartered
planets and discovering them in my own lil' tank, saving the universe from imminent doom -
It was all beautiful.

But then you guys had to come along with all your colorful different opinions (And those of you who
voice that opinion rather.. Strongly), trying to make sense of everything, tying logic into everything, 
and it completely ruined the game for me, 'cos I agreed. "Yeah, now you mention it, that's rather off,"
or "This could'a definitely be done better, BioWare," and so on, devoutly agreeing with those comments,
and furiously disagreeing with others.

I'm only half serious, of course, for those whose toes are easily stepped on.
Noone's forcing me to read the forums, after all, though I'm usually not much of a forum-goer. 

Now, I'm wondering, does anyone else experience that? Going into a game, naiveté-mode engaged,
and come out grim and soiled, by all those evil forumers?

Ponder on that, friends. Or not, of course.

I see your point and I can understand how your feel. Even agreeing with negativity can result in having less appreciation of the game, however... is that really the fault of others?

If I understand correctly, you actually agree with some points. So, think of it as nudging in the right direction. You're now openly disliking something which you may have not liked before, but didn't want to admit.

To be honest, yes, I liked Mass Effect... no, I loved it for what it was. Flawed? Sure. Yet as a package, the whole, it was absolutely stunning. One of the best gaming experiences, nay, one of the best visually presented sci-fi experiences (read as: excluding books).

Yet some people were very vocal about flaws that were purely subjective, a matter of taste. Inventory clutter? Yes, that was admittedly bad. Mako drived poorly? Well, maybe you drive poorly; maybe the X360's controls are sloppy. You don't like uncharted quests? Don't do them. And so on.

All of these vocal members resulted in BioWare hacking away so much that Mass Effect 2 feels like a different game. A poorer game, in my taste. So by criticizing it I leave someone disillusioned it's not the perfect "best game evah" and ruin it for him? Well, sorry, it's not - and freedom of speech that allows me to. Just as people were free to criticize the first.

The only difference seems to be that the then-vocal minority was left to express itself, while shooter fans now want to drown every voice of discontent. That is bothering me.  

[JeffZero]

I've been a part of too many fandoms over the years not to have a bit of an immune system when it comes to things like this but I get your point, topic creator.

[jeweledleah]

I think of it as if its a relationship (yeah, I'm a weirdo) when I first got the games, I barely even noticed any flaws, I was so infatuated with it - it was all utterly sappily perfect! but eventually you start noticing little things, things that are not quite perfect, annoying little habits if you will. But you accept them. because you genuinely love the game, you take the bad with a good and love it anyway. Of course none of the flaws in either ME are dealbreakers for me



and yeah, these forums are actually exceptionally pleasant, compared to some of the other games. and there's plenty of positive posts to balance out the negativity (and the negativity is usually overwhelmingly constructive rather then "this game sucks balls" kind)