115 réponses à ce sujet

[JeffZero]

For me, I noticed a few issues I had right off the bat. Apart from some gameplay problems that slowly cropped up throughout ME1, I felt unaccustomed to BioWare's style (hadn't played one of their games yet) so the very limited amount of time in which squadmates spoke with one-another (discounting elevators; I'm talking plot-moving dialogue) was hard to get used to. I grew up with games like Final Fantasy and Xenogears and Metal Gear Solid. And it showed. I was pretty turned off by that.



That said, I do love these games. And I do take the good and the bad and it's no dealbreaker. Really, I'm too in love with decent space operas to abandon Mass Effect even if I find something I really dislike in it.



And yeah, these posts are very pleasant, relatively speaking. Try GameFAQs sometime. I've been a part of its forum community for many years and sometimes I question that logic.

[Phaedon]

marshalleck wrote...
Only because you will soon be tired of the following threads posted daily:

which squadmates returning/getting cameos in ME3?
is Cerberus/TIM really that bad?
I want "Don't Fear the Reaper" for ME3 end credits song!
is ME2 really an RPG?
Do you hate thermal clips?

and...

Multiplayer/co-op in ME3??

I am an expert programmer, returning squaddies are impossible. 
I am an expert philosopher, morals are overrated. Cerberus/TIM is a-okay.
I am an expert at not understanding what hybrid means. ME2 was not an RPG.
I am an expert tactician, overheating weapons are a-okay in CQC.

Sure, I am a hypocrite myself, but everyone is an expert these days. :happy:

[Soahfreako]

I am an expert at... at... uh... [insert something awesome here]. Yup I totally am.

[Phaedon]

I am an expert at being an expert.

[DaringMoosejaw]

It happens with game forums everywhere. Consider that people that are happy with the game are significantly less likely to go to the forums, while people that are unhappy with it have a solid reason to be there.

[JeffZero]

DaringMoosejaw wrote...

It happens with game forums everywhere. Consider that people that are happy with the game are significantly less likely to go to the forums, while people that are unhappy with it have a solid reason to be there.

This.

[Praetor Knight]

RDS051 wrote...

Now, I'm wondering, does anyone else experience that? Going into a game, naiveté-mode engaged,
and come out grim and soiled, by all those evil forumers?

Well, the reason why I post here is because I really like the games and the ME universe in general. I haven't been bothered by the nitpicks in the ME forums, and only bothered a little with a few of the critiques of the games here.

I try to share my understanding of the game on matters I think I have a decent handle on, when I feel I have something to add to the discussion.

So, I think some of the nitpicks come from playing the games so many times, I know I've shared mine also. But when I read negative threads and posts I take them with a pinch of salt or two also.

And if it really bothers you, you can follow Okeer's advice and ignore negative threads and posts.

[TheBRADLeyB]

I'm completely confused by the OP's post.

There are things with ME2 I didn't like;

Thermoclips - I miss read this some how and thought that the Thermoclips were simply clips you could pop out and replace when your weapon was overheating. I swore that's what I read in the various articles and internet releases.

Hammerhead - I'm just not impressed with this thing. I find it aggravating that I have no 'damage report' or HUD to view and instead have to keep an ear out for an annoying alarm and fire shooting from my vehicle. I additionally find the entire sound of the vehicle annoying. From the jump boosts to the speed boosters it's just a constant noise pollution.

Level 30 Cap - There has been talk that the Level 30 Cap exists because in ME3 you will start at whatever level you ended in ME2 and the Cap was 30 to avoid people bringing in Level 60 or Plus Characters in ME3 the first run around. Although hey I would love to be a Beast starting out in ME3, I doubt it will happen. I mean ME1's who were 60 were capped at Level 5 Imports anyway.

Ammo Upgrades as "Abilities" - I would much rather be able to purchase upgrades for my weapons/characters and be stuck with that Upgrade for an entire mission then be able to 'Switch' ammo upgrades in the middle of combat. Not to mention anytime you pick up a new weapon, or switch weapons at a Weapon Locker you have to stop and check to see if everyone still has their upgrades equiped (Grunt is constantly some how having his Incindriary (WHY IS THERE NO FRICKING SPELL CHECK or Browser Spell Check Permissions ON THIS BOARD?) Ammo clocked off). Not to mention that I'm completely confused by what 'Team Ammo' Abilities do to one's Ammo who has their own ammo upgrade)

I also didn't like ME2 losing a lot of it's RPG roots and to me it really seems more like an 'Action/Adventure' Game then a RPG but there isn't much we can do about that.

I personally don't care about the ME1 Love Interests not having anything to do with ME2... I mean seriously people, the love interests have sex with Shepard ONE time right before you end the game. And like BioWare said, it's a suicide mission, would someone really want their love interests there? Besides I figure whatever roles they play in ME3 it will all make sense.

I'm all for people voice their opinions, but too many people jump on the internet and just scream and yell about things that they refuse to try to see in different lights. I'm interested in seeing how ME3 is in compared to ME1 and ME2 and see which way BioWare went with the Final Installment since there was such an immediate and large amount of angry hate to a lot of ME2's changes.

[Elvis_Mazur]

I never found everything in ME to be awesome, and because of that my love in the series come from just some aspects.



And, if those posts are ruining the game for you, try to make a list of the people you should ignore. I made mine. And, believe me, you won't loose anything. Generally, some people just keep saying the same thing in ME2 discussions which are related to its flaws and in ME1 vs ME2.

[GhostwriterDoF]

DaringMoosejaw wrote...

It happens with game forums everywhere. Consider that people that are happy with the game are significantly less likely to go to the forums, while people that are unhappy with it have a solid reason to be there.

I'm inlclined to believe it is more likely the opposite. Why would anyone spend time on a Game Site if they didn't like or care about a game or game developer?

Nothing negative posted in any game forums has changed how I felt about particular features of any games that I have liked. And I have been reading reviews and critiques by gamers for over a decade.
If it wasn’t for all the complaints, analysis and opinions posted in the forums here, I would not have gotten ME1. So my Mass Effect experience was enhanced, positively. 

[Ulzeraj]

People cry too much. There is a 30-ish thread on this forum complaining about character outfit where 7/10 posts come from just one guy repeating the same thing and offending everyone who doesn't agree with him. I really hope that listening to tantrums like his aren't the idea of "feedback" BW has.

I stand here ´posting on these forums saying proudly that I have enjoyed the 2 games and understand why the second runs in a different pace and ambience than the first.

Thank you Bioware.

Modifié par Ulzeraj, 30 janvier 2011 - 07:54 .

[Iakus]

RDS051 wrote.... 

Now, I'm wondering, does anyone else experience that? Going into a game, naiveté-mode engaged,
and come out grim and soiled, by all those evil forumers?

Ponder on that, friends. Or not, of course.

I've never had that happen to me, mainly because before ME 2, I did not frequent game forums.

I am one of those who, as others have pointed out, felt the need to come here due to extreme disatisfaction with the game.  If I had liked it, I would have been perfectly content to keep playing it and not bother anyone here (I'm sure much ot others' relief)  My coming here was mainly about trying to provide feedback (or crtiicism, or bashing, or whatever people want to call it.  I prefer "in-depth feedback" myself) to the organization which imo up til now had a perfect score of fun games. 

I dislike ME 2.  No secret about that.  But I do like, and hope to continue to like, Bioware games.  I just feel they went wrong somewhere with this one game, and while others may enjoy it, the feeling is not universal. 

So in all, I was "grim and soiled" before I even got here

[Dusty Boy T]

You're so damn right, OP. ='(

[naledgeborn]

Cru Hunter wrote...

If no one complained, how would anything get better? Sure, there are some people who can be over-zealous about it. Still, there are some productive things that come forward. You're blaming people for wanting the next game to be better?

"Can't carry a load so invent wheel. Can't catch food so invent spear" - Mordin Solus

[Paincake1234]

For me the first Mass Effect got you really involved in the story aspect. While Mass Effect 2 although not a bad story, did not get you as involved in the things especially the crew. ME2 fixed alot of annoyances from the first game, like Recoil Ammo I II II IV V VI VII etc... also the gameplay was refined and made much better.



Now Bioware needs to combine ME1 story and ME2 gameplay for ME3.



As for negativity on forums, it has never really affected me personally. Maybe I'm close minded

[Soahfreako]

Phaedon wrote...

I am an expert at being an expert.

I see what you did thar. 

[PnXMarcin1PL]

[spam removed]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 31 janvier 2011 - 06:20 .

[Sentox6]

Occasionally I'll come across a logical, well-argued viewpoint that causes me to enjoy some part of a game/movie/etc less than I did before.



And you know what? I appreciate this. I'll take a valid critical viewpoint over naive enjoyment any day of the week. I don't think any less of someone who prefers otherwise, though. After all, from a utility perspective, I'm just doing what makes me happier. If, for someone else, that means having to block their ears and yell "LALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU" (metaphorically) then fair enough.

[Funker Shepard]

Well, since we are at it, I liked pretty much everything in the way ME2 was done. The gameplay was by itself entertaining, and not just a vehicle for progressing through the nice story, as it was in ME1 to me.



I wish I could point out things that I really liked, in the hopes that I could make sure they are retained. I can't - I think it was an instance of so many things clicking together, that they form something that is greater than the sum of their parts - I think this is the second time Bioware has managed to do this, the last time having been Baldur's Gate 2. In fact, I probably have now more time in ME2 than I have in BG2, and have bought a similar number of copies of it, as well...



Overall, I found both the new power system with the unified reset and the new gear system to be better than the ones in ME1. The "Agency Provides" approach to gear is no less RPG than the "kill people for their loot" most people seem to mistake for the Only Acceptable System (see, among others, Spycraft PnP RPG). Could've used a bit more variation out of the box, it only became sorted when the last weapons pack came out.



Kind of miss tweaking my bio amps and omni tools, and considering the amount of tweakage you can do with just your armor, don't think that dropping more variety of those in would be a bad idea.



So, overall, I'd say I'm perfectly happy with the way the game deals with "guns available to everybody" and "guns only shepard can get" approach, and prefer it to having to pick up individual weps for everybody - it seems more realistic to me in a game of this kind. Still, I would have preferred the new guns to be more heavily in-game rewards instead of separate DLC.



I'll also give my opinion on the things that could be changed.



The Hammerhead. Honestly, the Mako never got to me in the same way it got to a lot of people, but I think that the issue with it was the multitude of uncharted planets that required lots of uphill driving with it. I think that the main story uses of the Mako were not just fundamentally sound, but the level design (and the design of the vehicle itself) were vastly superior to the ones we've seen with the Hammerhead so far. The lack of a GUI and saving points are also IMO definite steps back in the gameplay department, and the lack of ability to leave the vehicle at will is kind of jarring after the smooth transitions of ME1 - and now with mission-based XP, it's not like you can abuse the system as you could before...



If at all, possible, I'd like to see my non-assault rifle toting Shepard whip out the Avenger less often (not an euphemism, btw. ). The endgame is kind of egregious in this, as it gives a lot of assault rifles to NPCs without normal access to them. If animation requires it, using the standard pistol sidearm would probably be the better choice. I'd still love to see some workaround for it, so I could admire Shep and Miranda waving their Locusts around.



The structure of the missions was a bit on the formulaic side - one reason why I was such a huge fan of Kasumi's loyalty mission (the other was the abovementioned Locust, the backstory, the way of acquiring it and everything was just amazingly well done, and how I would have liked to see more guns implemented) - it broke up the formula. Telegraphing combat encounters with the magical appearance of waist-high barriers was another issue on this department, but I took no great issue with it.



ME1 and 2 have done an amazing job of setting the scene for ME3, both storywise and gameplay wise. I think that there is very little that Bioware could do that wouldn't make the game good. I'm just worried that budgetary considerations etc. will result in the fact that "all the stops won't be pulled out" - as I think that with what Bio have at their hands now, they can make something absolutely mind-blowingly amazing - If they just have the bravery to take the end status of ME2 and run with it - instead of hitting us with a reset button for the second time (which, I'll grant you was an elegant way for setting up the traditional trilogy structure for this story. I hope it continues).



Anway, I spent way too long thinking about this and writing this. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that come "holiday 2011", my mind is going to be absolutely shattered by ME3.

[habitat 67]

Ulzeraj wrote...

People cry too much. There is a 30-ish thread on this forum complaining about character outfit where 7/10 posts come from just one guy repeating the same thing and offending everyone who doesn't agree with him. I really hope that listening to tantrums like his aren't the idea of "feedback" BW has.

I stand here ´posting on these forums saying proudly that I have enjoyed the 2 games and understand why the second runs in a different pace and ambience than the first.

Thank you Bioware.

Fantastic perspective.

We must remember that the majority was quite pleased by the sum of all aspects of the game, as much so that it was awarded with over 120 game of the year awards, unprecedented in recent memory. 


 

[Terror_K]

Funker Shepard wrote...

Well, since we are at it, I liked pretty much everything in the way ME2 was done. The gameplay was by itself entertaining, and not just a vehicle for progressing through the nice story, as it was in ME1 to me.

I wish I could point out things that I really liked, in the hopes that I could make sure they are retained. I can't - I think it was an instance of so many things clicking together, that they form something that is greater than the sum of their parts - I think this is the second time Bioware has managed to do this, the last time having been Baldur's Gate 2. In fact, I probably have now more time in ME2 than I have in BG2, and have bought a similar number of copies of it, as well...

See, I actually found it to be the opposite, as least as far as it being "something that is greater than the sum of its parts" goes. That's actually how I felt about the original Mass Effect: that it was --as BioWare have actually described themselves regarding its reception--- a flawed masterpiece. To me the original Mass Effect was very much an experience more than a game, and I felt I could really delve into it on a level few games had allowed me to before. I felt more like I was being invited to experience this fantastic new universe and that I was being pulled into a classic cinematic sci-fi epic and allowed to not only be part of the story, but explore the universe beyond it. Yes, there were some flaws in there gameplay-wise, but it still overall had an X-Factor that really did come from it being more than the sum of its parts.

ME2 feels like the opposite to me. It just feels cold and methodical, and just like a game to me. Too much so. There are just far too many holes and little annoyances that add up and mar the experience, so to me it loses that X-Factor that the original had. And it doesn't help the way the whole thing is presented too: it just always seems to remind me that this is a game at every turn, and even goes so far to treat me like a baby and insult my intelligence with things like "Mission Complete" screens, constant massive, unsubtle pop-ups, loading screens, the way the galaxy map is turned into a mini-game more than a nagivation tool, etc. I find it ironic that BioWare cut many of the middle-man RPG elements out to add immersion and make it feel less like a game, and yet the whole thing just seems to constantly remind me of the medium at almost every turn, and I only found a few short moments where I could lose myself in it (though almost the entirety of LotSB was one of these). And this is taking into account that in ME1 I'm swtiching to the equipment screen every few minutes.

Don't get me wrong though: Mass Effect 2 is a great game. And in a lot of ways, it does a better job of being "a game" than the original Mass Effect did. But that's just as much its curse as it is its blessing. To me, ME2 was what I consider to be BioWare's first real failing. To me it just didn't seem to be all that special, almost completely lacking that X-factor that made me love all their previous titles. To me BioWare titles always seemed to just be that cut above other games, not for being games so much as just being great interactive experiences that I could really lose myself in. Mass Effect 2 was a great game, but just lost that BioWare magic, IMO. It just felt like all the other great games out there, and just didn't feel alive or special. It also felt kind of cold for the most part: like it was designed as a profit-maker first and a piece of interactive art second. Mass Effect 1 may have been a flawed masterpiece, but Mass Effect 2 didn't feel like a masterpiece at all, and really did feel like it was exactly the sum of its parts to me.

Modifié par Terror_K, 30 janvier 2011 - 10:49 .

[AlanC9]

TheBRADLeyB wrote...
 I would much rather be able to purchase upgrades for my weapons/characters and be stuck with that Upgrade for an entire mission then be able to 'Switch' ammo upgrades in the middle of combat.

That's a lot more restrictive than ME1, of course. Might be interesting, especially for those missions where you don't know what kind of enemies you'll be fighting.

Not to mention that I'm completely confused by what 'Team Ammo' Abilities do to one's Ammo who has their own ammo upgrade)

IIRC whichever one was activated last is the active power.

[AlanC9]

Terror_K wrote...
And it doesn't help the way the whole thing is presented too: it just always seems to remind me that this is a game at every turn, and even goes so far to treat me like a baby and insult my intelligence with things like "Mission Complete" screens, constant massive, unsubtle pop-ups, loading screens, the way the galaxy map is turned into a mini-game more than a nagivation tool, etc.

That kind of confuses me. Isn't ME1 navigation map gamey in exactly the same way that the Mission Complete screen is gamey? The game tells you what happened rather than having you do anything. Hit "Survey" and the Normandy goes to the planet, scans, and maybe the crew even boards a derelict spacecraft or something. Or do you mean that the navigation map is qust fine for going to destinations and the survey stuff is a minor blemish on it?

[Eshaye]

Walker White wrote...
This type of talk no longer affects me anymore.

Ditto. I went through loving forums, to hating forums, to just seeing them as what they are; a tool to voice your opinion where there's really no point in getting upset over someone else's. 

[Terror_K]

AlanC9 wrote...

That kind of confuses me. Isn't ME1 navigation map gamey in exactly the same way that the Mission Complete screen is gamey? The game tells you what happened rather than having you do anything. Hit "Survey" and the Normandy goes to the planet, scans, and maybe the crew even boards a derelict spacecraft or something. Or do you mean that the navigation map is qust fine for going to destinations and the survey stuff is a minor blemish on it?

This is kind of explained (by several people) in the Galaxy Map Con-Crit thread floating around the first page at the moment: that the simply cursor in ME1 that you use to operate the Galaxy Map feels more like you're actually interacting with an interface on The Normandy to choose your destination, while the ME2 one feels like a silly little minigame where you're literally flying this little toy ship around the place.