70 réponses à ce sujet

[Zulu_DFA]

jswatta wrote...

wulfsturm wrote...

seriously though, Bioware don't really do "dark" or "mature" or "difficult moral decisions"

it is what it is, get used to it or don't

I would consider the decision you make on the Geth station a "difficult moral decision."

I haven't gotten that far yet, but if you read my post, it specifically was reviewing afterlife and how peaceful and loving of place it was. I mean everyone loved each other on Afterlife, It was a paradise!  Sure you'd shoot a few people here and there, but other than that it was calm and serene.  LOVE was in the air!

Don't play the Lair of the Shadow Broker, man! Shepard is a total wussy there. A villain character practically spits him in the face, and he responds like "I am sorry!"

[marshalleck]

habitat 67 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

habitat 67 wrote...

A movie like The Princess Bride isn't suddenly going to be like Hellraiser or the Ring because that's not the tone they were setting. Sorry you don't get it.

Are you sure about that? I seem to remember Ray Muzyka and Casey Hudson spouting off like broken records about how "dark" and "emotionally engaging" Mass Effect 2 was going to be. In fact they repeated the marketing phrase verbatim so often it became a meme on the forum and people joked about Dr. Ray being a robot. Yet despite all that, it was neither dark nor emotionally engaging.

Uh yeah, I'm crystal clear on that.

Well then consider me skeptical of your memory, especially considering your registration date is well after they dropped the big push of the ME2 marketing campaign. 

Unless you simply wished to point out that The Princess Bride was never intended to be Hellraiser and you weren't implying the same was true of ME2. If that's where you're going, I guess you're right but it's not really on topic.

Modifié par marshalleck, 30 janvier 2011 - 05:03 .

[marshalleck]

DTKT wrote...

As for the dark and edgy, you have to keep in mind that almost everything that comes out to the public is marketing speech. 

Of course it is. Which is why I laughed and took a shot each time Ray or Casey called ME2 the "emotionally-engaging dark second chapter." It made a great drinking game!

I never believe Bioware when they say a game they're working on is going to be "dark" or "mature." Usually their idea of that is punching kittens pyjaks and being mean to orphans. And randomly stabbing people for absolutely no reason at all. Oh, and fully clothed strippers or sex scenes with people in granny panties to qualify for the 'mature' part.

Modifié par marshalleck, 30 janvier 2011 - 05:13 .

[MassEffect762]

social.bioware.com/poll.php

Bioware fan age poll.

I'm sure you can figure out what I'm getting at.

I'm 27 and thought ME2 was pretty light, only a few times did the game really hint at "Dark" for me.(i.e. Jacob loyalty mission)

Modifié par MassEffect762, 30 janvier 2011 - 05:18 .

[DTKT]

marshalleck wrote...

DTKT wrote...

As for the dark and edgy, you have to keep in mind that almost everything that comes out to the public is marketing speech. 

Of course it is. Which is why I laughed and took a shot each time Ray or Casey called ME2 the "emotionally-engaging dark second chapter." It made a great drinking game!

I never believe Bioware when they say a game they're working on is going to be "dark" or "mature." Usually their idea of that is punching kittens pyjaks and being mean to orphans. And randomly stabbing people for absolutely no reason at all. Oh, and fully clothed strippers or sex scenes with people in granny panties to qualify for the 'mature' part.

The ESRB would AO them for including such content. There is still a very strong limit on that stuff.

Either way, the dark/mature talk felt more like it was concerning the "tone" of the game. I wouldnt really qualify  a game as mature just because they show sex scenes and extreme violence.

[habitat 67]

marshalleck wrote...

Well then consider me skeptical of your memory, especially considering your registration date is well after they dropped the big push of the ME2 marketing campaign. 

Unless you simply wished to point out that The Princess Bride was never intended to be Hellraiser and you weren't implying the same was true of ME2. If that's where you're going, I guess you're right but it's not really on topic.

My fault for not explaining it in a way that is easily understood, and I don't think I'll be able to (have a migrane).
ME2 is darker than ME1, just like they said it would be. They never said it would be the darkest, nastiest thing in existence. So, within the Bioware frame of context what they said is true.

OP is saying that the club isn't the darkest thing ever, like Tijuana.
I'm trying to say that to expect The Princess Bride 2 to suddenly have exploding blood and cenobytes just because they said it would be darker would make no sense, but we seem to forget the rules when it comes to gaming.

Modifié par habitat 67, 30 janvier 2011 - 05:20 .

[marshalleck]

DTKT wrote...

The ESRB would AO them for including such content. There is still a very strong limit on that stuff.

Either way, the dark/mature talk felt more like it was concerning the "tone" of the game. I wouldnt really qualify  a game as mature just because they show sex scenes and extreme violence.

Neither would I, although I can see how that could be read into what I posted. I'd actually prefer Bioware lay off the shallow romances and awkward sex scenes, although as long as it remains 100% optional I really can't complain too much. And I'm not asking for exceptional amounts of violence. 

"Dark" is certainly subjective, and creative writing is definitely not one of my personal aptitudes, so please don't ask me how I would fix Bioware. I feel I can state with confidence that certain characters had a great deal of potential for interpersonal conflict that was mostly unrealized, or only given superficial treatment. Jack and Miranda for example should have been at each other's throats constantly--yet everything was just peachy after Shepard showed up and worked his magical powers of persuasion on them. The same goes for Tali and Legion.

I guess if I had to pick one standout example of what I personally consider to be a darker theme explored in ME2, it would be Mordin and his work on the genophage, and how he internalized his personal culpability for its effect on krogan culture. His loyalty mission where we witness his reflection and introspection upon seeing the real physical costs of his work and how he had to struggle to find a balance between duty and feelings of guilt was an exceptional piece of 'mature' writing, as far as video games go. I wish the rest of the game had such quality. Perhaps it was a result of having so many characters that less time could be devoted to each.

Modifié par marshalleck, 30 janvier 2011 - 05:30 .

[Shotokanguy]

Bogsnot1 wrote...

Youve obviously played the game, yet you havent bothered registering it on the forums. This leads me to conclude you are either;
a) A pirate. As such, your opinion in invalid.
A troll who has already gotten himself banned from posting on the forums, and has made another account to continue trolling. As such, your opinion is equally invalid.

Why dont you step up and show some balls, seeing you are demanding Bioware do so?

I didn't register my game bro

And I'm like, the best poster on this site

Seriously, who cares that you didn't get to partake in prostitution and brutal murders? You still saw that Omega was disgusting, the place was clearly the filth of the galaxy. You're complaining because you didn't get what YOU wanted, not because BioWare didn't do what they said they would.

[silentassassin264]

Well Bioware marketing doesn't really match up and if it is one problem I have with them...that is it. Mass Effect 2 for example was billed as darker and edgier, the dark second act...you get the point. The problem is, other than being forced to work with a terrorist group because everyone else in the Mass Effect galaxy is a giant cloaca, it really isn't that dark. In fact, most of the loyalty missions and characterization for the characters you were recruiting was about family and fitting in. If anything, ME2 was lighter and fluffier than the impending doom, chase across the galaxy of Mass Effect 1. ME2 was a good game but marketing really tried to make it seem like it was something it wasn't.



Also, note to devs, if you are going to show us Omega as a corrupt hive, at least have some side quests to see the seedy underbelly of the seedy underbelly rock station thing.

[Confused_Shepard]

Mass Effect 2 is Disney Dark. I mean we should have seen like a crucified human because he was trying to promote his religion. There should have been a side-quest involving saving a girl from a bunch of slavers (I Remember Me from ME 1)

Aria should have done a line of red sand in front of Shep and provided if you play your cards right she requests a private audience with you but just sends the two best Asari prostitutes as a gift. It would cut to black of course

Everything about Jack was super dark though. I would just add some creepy snuff film style flashbacks in Pragia

Modifié par Confused_Shepard, 30 janvier 2011 - 06:21 .

[Mariquis]

After reading the topic title I came into this topic expecting a dance off.



I am severely disappointed.

[Aargh12]

MassEffect762 wrote...

Audience, Audience, Audience, it's everything.

Yup, Bioware has to make sure that kids will not be disgusted when playing a and 18+ game

[Mariquis]

As an actual comment after reading the OP, I quasi agree. However, there WERE actually a lot of adult elements in the game: murder (poisoning, via shepard, killing hapless employees, gang wars etc.), Sexual exploitation/rape, grave robbing/theft, racism, drug references/use (I can't recall if most were from the books or the games, but there was a lot of in depth discussion of drugs in the books), child abduction, child torture, child murder, unethical medical practices, illegal organizations, plagues, kidnapping, gruesome smoothie deaths, etc. etc.

I really appreciate the inclusion of these things in a more gritty universe, but I don't think the issue was with whether they were included or not. I felt that while the stuff was there it was rarely addressed at length by Shepard or squadmates. Also the atmosphere in some places felt a little too clean and polished and not quite so... grim.

I think its an issue of the atmosphere not being forboding enough, rather than the lack of inclusion of these topics at all.

[Destroy Raiden_]

Of course it wasn't violent you can't have a Pam's labyrinth type of bludgeoning going on! But I was at least expecting to be robbed. The poisoning surely unexpected was a nice change I mean I wasn't harassed beyond the blue suns merch as fshep no robberies, fake propositioning some games do a girl solicits you if you accept you wind up in the gutter broke, naked, and really feeling like an idiot for taking her up on her offer, but alas none of that a few fighting words and that was about it. I would like to see Omega live up to its general in game description for ME3 but I think I'll have a better chance if I just go up on the Hill.

[Confused_Shepard]

It's mostly fluffed up. Off hand references rather than showing us the actual horror. Mafia 2 had an actual prison rape sequence. Nothing happens but you do fight naked in a shower. Show don't tell

I felt Purgatory was darker than Omega. Instead of Kuril being stupid (He was shattered when Jack escaped. CRYO AMMO VIPER!) Shep should have been captured and tortured Metal Gear style

THAT'S DARK! I could easily being my kids to Afterlife. It's JUST LOOK AND TALK TOUGH LAND!

Modifié par Confused_Shepard, 30 janvier 2011 - 07:57 .

[Naughty Bear]

wulfsturm wrote...

seriously though, Bioware don't really do "dark" or "mature" or "difficult moral decisions"

it is what it is, get used to it or don't

I would consider the decision you make on the Geth station a "difficult moral decision."

That was supposed to be difficult? I killed them all.

[STG]

GTA is that way ->

[Fixers0]

My Biggest problems with afterlife and whole omega is that it is so obvious the these enviroments are created by someone on a computer, just stand still for a moment and you will notice.

[Naughty Bear]

Fallout is a good example.



White Glove Society is creepy.

[Gibb_Shepard]

marshalleck wrote...

The elcor conquering the quarian child was pretty hardcore man

or how about that one time you called the batarian shopkeeper's inventory junk, pretty brutal

seriously though, Bioware don't really do "dark" or "mature" or "difficult moral decisions"--they are mostly candy and rainbows and (space) paladins

it is what it is, get used to it or don't

Maybe not the ME team, but the DA team give you very, very dark choices.

Modifié par Gibb_Shepard, 30 janvier 2011 - 12:31 .

[Destrier77]

I would say some aspects of it are a bit dark. The brother who is being used in an attempt to control the geth, and that mission is pretty emotional, i was torn what to do at the end of it.



But yes bioware and pubs/clubs are not good. Just be thankful the nightclubs in this are better than taverns in dragon age with 2 people in it who never move and cant be interacted with. Now that was lame...

[ZLurps]

IMO Afterlife was fine. People don't start a fight in place that is a symbol of Aria's success ruling the Omega. How things work on Omega is IMO very well explained if you do Patriarch quest in Afterlife.

What comes to world of ME2 I say it's pretty dark.

Some events Zaeed describes are pretty dark.
When you go to recruit Jack there is a prisoner who talks about pride and not having a shower for 3 months. I don't think it's a hygiene problem what guy is talking about. Jack have story too...
On the same mission you witness sadism, hear about how prison needs to deal with guards that beatings doesn't result death of prisoners. Hear how some prisoners are sold for those who want their personal revenge... That would be worse than that prison.

Murders, gang rapes, slave traffic, drug and weapons smuggling, corruption, (often pointless) experiments done on living sentient beings, not just humans... Those things are everywhere if player bothers to look around and think a while.
Disney sure has changed if they cover issues like these.

I don't think every element that creates a dark world needs a graphic visualisation or underscoring. The way BioWare has put these things in game is IMO much better because it can make player think and understand what kind of **** happens in real world.

Modifié par ZLurps, 30 janvier 2011 - 01:11 .

[Lumikki]

I got feeling that it's place where you can go and live, if you are running from someone or the law.

Modifié par Lumikki, 30 janvier 2011 - 01:31 .

[Kusy]

Naughty Bear wrote...
Fallout is a good example.
White Glove Society is creepy.

Nothing is creepy in Fallout 3/Vegas. White Glove Society were funny if something.

Fixers0 wrote...
My Biggest problems with afterlife and whole omega is that it is so obvious the these enviroments are created by someone on a computer, just stand still for a moment and you will notice.

Something like this? In a video game? That's an outrage!
Care to exaplin poster?

Modifié par Mr.Kusy, 30 janvier 2011 - 01:36 .

[Destroy Raiden_]

There are no random attacks for one. I really liked red dead redemption for this random people would either ride through town shooting people, npcs on the road would get robbed or held up, and then random npcs in town would literally grab someone or chase them down the street trying to kill them tossing them to the ground and hitting and choking them that's where you come in you can either watch it play out or pull out your gun and shoot the bad guy in the head no one tries to kill you afterwards because they know you did good but if you shoot the victim then the lawmen come out. I think something similar could've worked like the asari girl arguing with the turrian if that scene was also played out in afterlife on a non mission shep could use two options hand to hand (for para) or shoot him (ren) being Omega I doubt anyone would object to that guys disappearance either way.

As far as the white glove society comment they were odd not creepy Shibitos are creepier then them. They were obviously hiding behind their pomp and way too much into themselves to give me red flags. I liked the fact they kidnaped and killed people for food but the man you rescue really wasn't in a whole lot of trouble by them. It's a start I wouldn't mind a mission where the vorcha kidnap to eat some teens or something. Seeing the mangled bodies of the saddest raiders victims was more disturbing especially sense the first time I met them I ended up in an elementary school and was like why are bodies hanging from the ceiling? A very silent hill moment there.

Mornith and that artists were dark but only a surface light got shown on them her messages didn't dissolve into obsession or near insanity the VA spoke in a more dreamy dazed sort of way rather then fixated. No mementos of Mornith's last victims other then art, swords, or that statue I was half expecting her to have a hidden torture room something out of a horror film that shep could've found and just have some audio recordings of her torturing someone that would've been what I was expecting. Yes I'm scary I play too many jhorror games and watch way too many films and crime shows. BW could just pull a few from those and tweak it to fit in.

Overlord was more my style of horror anyhow that I liked alot love it . Even the end decision for me anyway didn't feel like a win situation letting him live means he's trapped with his numbers and most likely living out his days nearly insane in some institution somewhere.

Modifié par Destroy Raiden , 30 janvier 2011 - 05:46 .