88 réponses à ce sujet

[Matchy Pointy]

It just means that 37 million years ago, some civilization was lucky and/or advanced enough to take out one Reaper, same as with Soveirign (also, this should be in the Mass Effect 2 forum, and the title itself is a big spoiler enough for some peaople I would imagine).

[Stupidus]

xAlch3mIstx wrote...

yea thats what i dont get though

Serendipity?

[Matchy Pointy]

xAlch3mIstx wrote...

yea thats what i dont get though

Considering what we know of the Reapers, they attack when galactic civilization is advanced enough, so it would seem to reason that civilization was atleast as advanced as ours (meaning the state of advancement in ME when the battle of the Citadel happened). And who know, they might even have been the ones that built them (though I highly doubt it).

Modifié par Matchy Pointy, 30 janvier 2011 - 06:51 .

[samurai crusade]

The weapon that killed the Reaper was located by a cerberus team...it was no longer functioning as TIM explains, it may come into play in ME3 though. The galaxy is largely unexplored and nobody was looking for the gun or the ship.. or why Klendegon had a giant rift in it. Hard to believe... but millions of years ago there were advanced races in the ME universe and yes... one got lucky enough to kill a Reaper. Every 50,000 years the Reapers harvest them.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

The Protheans were more advanced than the Citadel Races weren't they? Why would it be very hard to believe that the Reapers destroyed civilizations more advanced than ours over time, way back in the millions of years of the past cycle?

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 30 janvier 2011 - 07:43 .

[DarthSliver]

Of course this brings up, who built the Reapers?



I am sure the Reapers took over the galaxy in the same way the Geth took almost everything from their Quarian creators.

[Praetor Knight]

Stupidus wrote...

Serendipity?

Serendipity.

Stranger things have happened right?

[Bogsnot1]

You could always pay attention to whats said, and read the correspondnig codex entries. Its all explained. Ill give you ther very, very simple version.
A rift in a planet was theorised to be the resulting impact of a mass accelerator weapon (bloody big rail gun). Age of planetary rift was estimated, they then used this newfangled invention called maths (physics to be precise) to backtrack the planetary movement to that time, and then used same maths to backtrack the trajectory of the "bullet" to find the gun that fired it. In betwen gun and planet, they found a reaper with a great big whopping hole in it.
Satisfied?

Edit: If the reapers come along and wipe out civilisations every 50000 years, its not so much we get dumber as time goes on, its just we have to start building things again from scratch, instead of building on past knowledge.
Somewhat like what happened when one particular religion forced us into the Dark Ages, and it wasnt until a certain someone started heading east, and brought back all these treasures like silk, and knowledge that another particular religion had kept safely recorded, that we came out of the Dark Ages and entered the Renaissance.

Modifié par Bogsnot1, 30 janvier 2011 - 08:20 .

[JKoopman]

Why should each previous civilization in the cycle of Reaper extinctions be necessarily dumber than our own? The Protheans came before us, and they were far more advanced. It just means that whichever spacefaring alien civilization existed 37 million years ago was advanced enough to have mass accelerator weaponry capable of disabling a Reaper. Obviously it didn't do them any good as their civilization was still wiped out and lost to time.

[282xvl]

xAlch3mIstx wrote...
Nicely put, you nailed that one right on the head,
i could see that happening, but even if they had that kind of power and still couldnt
stop the reapers, I wonder how shepard will.

I think the Klendagon mass accelerator was a one-off. The civilization that build it only had the single gun. It was a prototype or perhaps it was a Death-Star like superweapon. But they didn't neccissarily have to have that much greater tech than "today's" citadel council races.

Mass accelerators are mass acclerators. If the citadel races wanted to spend trillions of credits on an accelerator that was 10 KM long and the neccissarily massive He3 fusion powerplant, super-size capacitor and massive eezo core neccissary to fire it, the tech exists right now to build it. Against anything but a Reaper though it would be pretty retarded and pretty useless and keep in mind that the whole tin-foil-hat reaper claim as been generally dismissed

[Durontan]

Point is, if you look at it now, it took entire 5th fleet of Human ships to take out Sovereign. You forget one thing that happens in cycles since forever. Citadel, heart of all civilizations is first to be taken out and with it most of galaxies defenses and most powerful leaders. EACH time, every 50k years that happened till Protheans in their final hour ****ed over reapers. That one little difference is a huge advantage to current races (and honestly, only reason why we still exist TNX Protheans), as if you look at codex citadel is positioned in the centre of mass relays so it is harder for fleets to manuver around it, and with reapers invading from there in suprise attacks, atleast 60% of galaxy forces gets anihilated before anyone can even shot a single shot at a reaper.

So, lets just think that 250k years ago a race advanced as current ones got 60% of their forces destroyed. Rest of their ships gathered and formed, lets just say a size of Fifth human fleet (and you can be certain it had to be atleast a size of one current races entire fleets) and ambushed a reaper in their final show of ressistance. Is it rly THAT unbillivable, that for so many cycles there wasn't one race that got enough forces and ambushed a reaper and took it out?

Modifié par Durontan, 30 janvier 2011 - 11:50 .

[282xvl]

Nope. Not unbelievable at all.



I don't necessarily buy the arbitrary "60% destroyed" figure. Only fleets positioned at or about the citadel would be destroyed in the initial attack. The citadel attack destroys very little of the target civilization's fleet. What it does do is shut down the relays and prevent consolidation of fleet assets into meaningful force strengths. It also prevents communication of impeding doom. For all the distant colonies know the relay system just broke down on its own, with no malicious intervention by anyone (remember, its just borrowed tech that was found floating around.)



I would not be surprised to learn that the Reapers actually do suffer a small rate of attrition every cycle or every few cycles when races either A. have a very very massive fleet assigned to the citadel, B. manage to group together enough forces to cause they a problem somewhere else (ex. homeworld defense fleet) or C. manage to build a super-weapon either conventional (klendagon cannon) or unconventional (krogan moon-shattering unexplained thing.)

[Vaenier]

Orbital Defense Platform

My guess is they built one of these for asteroid defense and when the Reapers came, it was just repurposed. The gun was a one of the kind top of the line weapon. It was not built in mass to defend a planet from an enemy fleet. It was built to take out a single super sized target.

The stupidity of why the Reapers would leave behind the gun that killed them for later civilizations to find and reproduce is just beyond words though. Also, it would be impossible to back trace where the gun and Reaper were by looking at the rift, the planet spins... come on, the rift pointed to the entire galaxy at one point or another... Holes... Holes everywhere.

Modifié par Vaenier, 30 janvier 2011 - 02:03 .

[EternalPink]

That's assuming they knew they'd lost a reaper and where, they could have been in search and destroy mode and slightly confident so when one of them came across the last rally place of the enemy fleet it was more than it could take.



That fleet then goes on and dies to the remaining/larger bunch of reapers.

[Dean_the_Young]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

The Protheans were more advanced than the Citadel Races weren't they? Why would it be very hard to believe that the Reapers destroyed civilizations more advanced than ours over time, way back in the millions of years of the past cycle?

Not really.

They were advanced in certain fields (the beacons), but the ability to make Mass Relays (the Conduit) isn't something beyond current research capabilities. Just like the Leviathan of Dis civ had genetic starships. Advanced in some, presumably lacking in others.

The only reason we think of the Protheans as especially advanced is because of the Mass Relays and Citadel... which, of course, they had nothing to do with.

[SajPl]

The Derelict Reaper might as well have been a vanguard just like Sovereight and could have been destroyed before or after the races that build the weapon extinction. You might say that they couldnt have killed a reaper after they were dead but the protheans did the same thing - their race was doomed yet they still modified the citadel not to respond to Sovereigns signal and even that Ilos wasnt destroyed by Reapers (there should be proof like Vigil). So big mass cannon race could have either destroyed the vanguard and still get destroyed when the reapers eventually arrived or they could have destroyed the vanguard after the extinction and die off naturral causes like the protheans from Ilos. If the reaper was killed alone and didnt transmit his position to the others then they couldn't have taken him away and he was left there for Cerberus to find - of course this rises my question why didnt Cerberus tell the council or the Alliance - just fly to the specified place you will find a Reaper and you will have to believe Shepard.

[Durontan]

SajPl wrote...

The Derelict Reaper might as well have been a vanguard just like Sovereight and could have been destroyed before or after the races that build the weapon extinction. You might say that they couldnt have killed a reaper after they were dead but the protheans did the same thing - their race was doomed yet they still modified the citadel not to respond to Sovereigns signal and even that Ilos wasnt destroyed by Reapers (there should be proof like Vigil). So big mass cannon race could have either destroyed the vanguard and still get destroyed when the reapers eventually arrived or they could have destroyed the vanguard after the extinction and die off naturral causes like the protheans from Ilos. If the reaper was killed alone and didnt transmit his position to the others then they couldn't have taken him away and he was left there for Cerberus to find - of course this rises my question why didnt Cerberus tell the council or the Alliance - just fly to the specified place you will find a Reaper and you will have to believe Shepard.

Believe into what? That there is a derelict ship like Sovereign? It is obvious that first thing that the council would do would say, it was made by Geth and was a failed experiment prior to Sovereign. And that is obvious thing. Like Shepard said, it is easier to believe into a lie then into a dangerous truth.

[SajPl]

Durontan wrote...

Believe into what? That there is a derelict ship like Sovereign? It is obvious that first thing that the council would do would say, it was made by Geth and was a failed experiment prior to Sovereign. And that is obvious thing. Like Shepard said, it is easier to believe into a lie then into a dangerous truth.

Actually the council dismissed the Reaper theory because there wasn't enough proof of Sovereigns technology, like Anderson said - they were able to salvage less than half of that thing and it was pretty useless stuff, so id guess not believing some broken pieces of debris is one thing and seeing and being able to study a gigantic starship is a whole another thing. Still if they wouldnt want to believe it - they wouldnt, thats true.

[meh_cd]

DarthSliver wrote...

Of course this brings up, who built the Reapers?

I am sure the Reapers took over the galaxy in the same way the Geth took almost everything from their Quarian creators.

They built themselves. If you want to believe Legion, he has dialogue regarding the Reapers (before they were Reapers) uploading themselves to the ships. The dialogue only occurs if you save the base.

[Pro_Consul]

Durontan wrote...

Believe into what? That there is a derelict ship like Sovereign? It is obvious that first thing that the council would do would say, it was made by Geth and was a failed experiment prior to Sovereign.

Ahh, but this derelict Reaper was scientifically dated at over 37 millions years old. The geth were only recently created by the Quarians, so there is no way they could have created it. But of course you are right, and they would simply reach for another comforting lie in order to avoid admitting an unpleasant truth. They'd prolly say the Geth had found the derelict first and based "their" Sovereign design on it.