88 réponses à ce sujet

[samurai crusade]

Vaenier wrote...

Also, it would be impossible to back trace where the gun and Reaper were by looking at the rift, the planet spins... come on, the rift pointed to the entire galaxy at one point or another... Holes... Holes everywhere.

Not impossible... our scientists today can do that.  You can determine a planets orbit. And then rotation.   With that information you can turn back the clock and see where the planet was. Then... you simply draw a line and see which stars fall on it (because from that distance another planets orbit doesn't matter...just the star it orbits)  then Cerberus sends teams to search those star systems and presto. You located something in space.

[HBC Dresden]

meh_cd wrote...

DarthSliver wrote...

Of course this brings up, who built the Reapers?

I am sure the Reapers took over the galaxy in the same way the Geth took almost everything from their Quarian creators.

They built themselves. If you want to believe Legion, he has dialogue regarding the Reapers (before they were Reapers) uploading themselves to the ships. The dialogue only occurs if you save the base.

Dude, you serious? I got to re-upload a Suicide Mission save, save the base, and talk to Legion.

[StarGateGod]

xAlch3mIstx wrote...

HBC Dresden wrote...

meh_cd wrote...

DarthSliver wrote...

Of course this brings up, who built the Reapers?

I am sure the Reapers took over the galaxy in the same way the Geth took almost everything from their Quarian creators.

They built themselves. If you want to believe Legion, he has dialogue regarding the Reapers (before they were Reapers) uploading themselves to the ships. The dialogue only occurs if you save the base.

Dude, you serious? I got to re-upload a Suicide Mission save, save the base, and talk to Legion.

I didnt know about this either and ive played the campaign atleast 40 times over already lol
dammit now I got to do it again

ive never heard this

[meh_cd]

I've only played the game twice - once as a pure Paragon and once as a pure Renegade. In the Renegade playthrough, I had already completed all of Legion's dialogue options (that is, if him discussing the Geth and the Dyson sphere is the last one), and after the suicide mission I just stopped by the AI Core and asked him what was up.

I will go see if I have a save from the Suicide Mission and see if he says it again.

Edit: Well, since I played Shadow Broker after the suicide mission, all of the collector ship saves are gone. The only save before that is left is waaaaaaay back in the Omega slums when you recruit Mordin. I'm looking for it on Youtube.

Modifié par meh_cd, 31 janvier 2011 - 04:42 .

[Bluko]

meh_cd wrote...

DarthSliver wrote...

Of course this brings up, who built the Reapers?

I am sure the Reapers took over the galaxy in the same way the Geth took almost everything from their Quarian creators.

They built themselves. If you want to believe Legion, he has dialogue regarding the Reapers (before they were Reapers) uploading themselves to the ships. The dialogue only occurs if you save the base.

Never heard of this. And I'm pretty sure I exhausted all my dialogue options with Legion where I saved the Geth base. Or are you talking about the Collector Base? I know each team member has one comment after the suicide mission, but that's it.

Anyways what's so hard to believe that some Alien race built a planetary defense cannon large enough to destroy a Reaper? Im sure past civilizations have managed to kill a few Reapers as well. They are powerful, but not invincible. A few Reapers are probably lost every so often when they face highly militarized races in their cycle.

The real question is why did the Reapers leave one of their own behind half-dead? That seems like a pretty big goof on their part.

[Uber Rod]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

The Protheans were more advanced than the Citadel Races weren't they? Why would it be very hard to believe that the Reapers destroyed civilizations more advanced than ours over time, way back in the millions of years of the past cycle?

It seems that the Protheans were the only advanced race when the Reapers attacked. Why would they have weapons when there would have been no one to us them on?

The Protheans by the very nature of being tho only advanced race in the Galaxy made them an easy target. Now there are quite a few advanced races and by that token have bumped up their military might, most likely, far beyond what the Protheans had.

[Zacarius2]

I like the idea that the derelict was a vanguard. It makes a little better sense. I have always been troubled by why it was left behind. But if it was a previous vanguard that the ancient race discovered and realized what it was, or maybe just out of pure fear of what it might be. It makes sense than that the other reapers did not remove it as they had no knowledge of where it was. It also shows that they have "found another way" before.



We do not know why the Protheans were the only advanced race during their cycle. There seems to be a general consesus that the Protheans were a nice race simply because of the warning cast into the future. But this could simply be the last desprate act of a vengful people. It maybe possible that there were no other advanced races because the Protheans either eliminated or supprest them.



Does anyone doubt that if in real life we find out that humanity is the first race to acheive interstellar travel that there would be factions who advocate the removal and suppression of any alian races found before they achieve space flight and threaten humanity? And if that faction hold sway over the majority of the population that it would not be the enforced policy?



Do not assume the Protheans were peace-loving based on their final desprate act. They could have easily been just as genocidal as the Reapers, just without the smoothies.

[Saren100]

Juromaro wrote...

All we see is one dead reaper ship, and as we know with the ending scene of me2 the reapers have a massive fleet, so back then they probably had numbers, and now they have numbers and tech, and as we all know numbers will always beat weapons. Just my opinion though no need to go spreading it around.

Thats true for ww2 russian and allied numbers were to much for the Deutsch forces even with our superior weapons tech and all our wonderful prototypes.

But...

In the gulf war for example Irak had 4 million soldiers against a few hundred thousand.

The allies easily won because of superior tech and training.

[TCBC_Freak]

If you read the codex and listen to the dialog in both of the games it is well explained what the Reapers do and how this would have happened. Now if you have a PS3 I can excuse a bit of questions raised from lack of complete knowledge. But my answer to the OP question is, read the codex my friend, 80% of the questions people have about 'plot holes' and such would be answered if they just read the codex; heck even just listened to the main entries that are read to you most questions people put on this forum would be answered.

[samurai crusade]

TCBC_Freak wrote...

If you read the codex and listen to the dialog in both of the games it is well explained what the Reapers do and how this would have happened. Now if you have a PS3 I can excuse a bit of questions raised from lack of complete knowledge. But my answer to the OP question is, read the codex my friend, 80% of the questions people have about 'plot holes' and such would be answered if they just read the codex; heck even just listened to the main entries that are read to you most questions people put on this forum would be answered.

Agreed. Too many people don't read the Codex in these threads.

[AkiKishi]

During the Battle of the Citadel Shepard says that the Alliance lost 8 ships and the Taurians 20. Given those numbers are Reapers really that great ? Sure it would be a bloody battle but at 28-1 you would win by sheer numbers, there are not that many Reapers. They only won against the Protheans because of isolation tactics, something they can't repeat now.

[Sajuro]

samurai crusade wrote...

TCBC_Freak wrote...

If you read the codex and listen to the dialog in both of the games it is well explained what the Reapers do and how this would have happened. Now if you have a PS3 I can excuse a bit of questions raised from lack of complete knowledge. But my answer to the OP question is, read the codex my friend, 80% of the questions people have about 'plot holes' and such would be answered if they just read the codex; heck even just listened to the main entries that are read to you most questions people put on this forum would be answered.

Agreed. Too many people don't read the Codex in these threads.

I know I don't, but I also don't go around complaining about 'how Bioware has so many plot holes'

[Jacobss]

BobSmith101 wrote...

During the Battle of the Citadel Shepard says that the Alliance lost 8 ships and the Taurians 20. Given those numbers are Reapers really that great ? Sure it would be a bloody battle but at 28-1 you would win by sheer numbers, there are not that many Reapers. They only won against the Protheans because of isolation tactics, something they can't repeat now.

Sovereign was concentrated on opening the citadel relay and not on the fight with the Alliance ships. Even though he managed to destroy almost every ship surrounding him. Only because of taking direct control, he hast lost. So yes, the Reapers are "that great".

As for the Protheans - the cycle has reapeted itself so many times, that it does not matter if the won by isolation, because EVERY race so far has failed.

[AkiKishi]

Jacobss wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

During the Battle of the Citadel Shepard says that the Alliance lost 8 ships and the Taurians 20. Given those numbers are Reapers really that great ? Sure it would be a bloody battle but at 28-1 you would win by sheer numbers, there are not that many Reapers. They only won against the Protheans because of isolation tactics, something they can't repeat now.

Sovereign was concentrated on opening the citadel relay and not on the fight with the Alliance ships. Even though he managed to destroy almost every ship surrounding him. Only because of taking direct control, he hast lost. So yes, the Reapers are "that great".

As for the Protheans - the cycle has reapeted itself so many times, that it does not matter if the won by isolation, because EVERY race so far has failed.

I don't see what differnce that would make to any defences really.The very fact that regular fire from regular ships can kill a reaper means they are not that scary even if it's 200 ships to one Reaper it's still a "win".

And they pulled the same trick every 50,000 years to the point on ME1. Every race fell for the honey trap that was the Citadel.

The Reapers are only going to win if they can choose the battlefield otherwise based on what happened to Sovereign numbers will win.

[SajPl]

I dont like the theory that Sovereign lost because he took control of Saren - I mean, if something like that weakened him, why would he do that during a fight? I allways assume that the combined forces of the citadel and alliance fleets took him down, Shepards fight may have helped but that wasn't the most important factor.

[Moiaussi]

To risk borrowing from another thread....



How did it die?



There was a hole....



Why was it still there?



There was a hole....

[Moiaussi]

SajPl wrote...

I dont like the theory that Sovereign lost because he took control of Saren - I mean, if something like that weakened him, why would he do that during a fight? I allways assume that the combined forces of the citadel and alliance fleets took him down, Shepards fight may have helped but that wasn't the most important factor.

Desperation maneuver. If the program shep installed was allowed to run its course for all we know it might have been able to re-write Sovereign too. At the very least it might have been able to lock him out permanently ala the keepers being locked out.

[AkiKishi]

NewMessageN00b wrote...

SajPl wrote...

I dont like the theory that Sovereign lost because he took control of Saren - I mean, if something like that weakened him, why would he do that during a fight? I allways assume that the combined forces of the citadel and alliance fleets took him down, Shepards fight may have helped but that wasn't the most important factor.

What theory? Just facts. Look at the cutscene. Everyone is shooting at him; he gets not a scratch. Then Shepard beats him at the boss fight and it just lets go, turns off. It's what the story tells us. Anything else and... well... you're just fooling yourself.

Also, it's more than evident that it was Sovereign's last attempt at getting in Shepard's way.

Even if it downloaded to Saren it would still be on the ship. You also have to question it's intellect if it leaves an indestructable ship for a body which has already been turned to swiss cheese.

I think it was simply overwhelmed with firepower when the Alliance Fleet arrived. Nothing more than that.

If you think about it if they really were as tough as some people think. They would have no need for subterfuge like the Citadel trap in the first place.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 31 janvier 2011 - 04:21 .

[Exile Isan]

SajPl wrote...

I dont like the theory that Sovereign lost because he took control of Saren - I mean, if something like that weakened him, why would he do that during a fight? I allways assume that the combined forces of the citadel and alliance fleets took him down, Shepards fight may have helped but that wasn't the most important factor.

It's not a theory, the proof is right there in the game. When Saren's corpse first gets re-animated Sovereign says "I am Sovereign and this station is mine!" If that's not proof that he's inside Saren's corpse I don't know what is. Also Saren let Sovereign implant him, and we now know via Harbinger that this is how he takes control of the Collector General and other Collectors. But back to ME1, watch the final cutscene again before Shepard defeats Saren the Citadel fleet isn't even scratching Sovereign as another poster pointed out. After you defeat Saren? Sovereign's shields immediately go down, the lights on the front of Sovereign flicker and go out, he lets go of the Citadel Tower and is floating dead in space and the fleet is able to destroy the body. Whatever was actually Sovereign, or rather Nazarra, was dead long before Joker shot it with the Normandy.

Not that this really has anything to do with this thread.