230 réponses à ce sujet

[FurousJoe]

I simply love their new look, it's completely ****ing badass, yes they look more menacing, and that's good thing imo, but as others already mentioned, they NEED to keep the lore about them, that's what made Qunari interresting in DAO, if they take that away I will never forgive them, but if they manage to keep lore consistent and have the new look, well then I want to have babies with the writers/designers

Modifié par FurousJoe, 30 janvier 2011 - 05:30 .

[nightcobra]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

There are two primary objections. Those that view any change in art style as a problem, and those that simply do not prefer the new style.

<-is neither

3. Those who worry that the new art style is to potray the Qunari as incomprehensibly alien who look more like brutes and less "human" / civilized.

We are hoping to be proved wrong. At least I am.

and they might  see us as just a bunch of hairless monkeys who don't know their place in life, just as you're seeing them as a beast like race. different preconceptions for different cultures.

[upsettingshorts]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

I think that falls into the first category.... sort of...

Nah, typical first category arguments are more like... "anything different from Origins is a problem because it's supposed to be the same universe." 

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 30 janvier 2011 - 05:31 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Upsettingshorts wrote...
If the game tells you the incomprehensible alien brutes are civilized, then they are. Even if that may or may not contradict a superficial evaluation of their appearance.

I'd rather prefer they show me, rather than tell me with codexes on advanced technology that we don't see.
While we didn't get to see that in Origins either (in Awakenign though), Sten provided us with a lens on his people and while they appear to be alien, they did not sound uncivilized, unless one wants to stretch the definition of the word.

But like I said, it's a concern, that can be proven as misplaced. Not an objection to the new art style.

[upsettingshorts]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

[I'd rather prefer they show me, rather than tell me with codexes on advanced technology that we don't see.

Ah, you're taking "tells" literally.  Let me be clearer:

If the game shows or tells you that the incomprehensible alien brutes are smarter and more cunning than they look, then they are.  You are, in effect, arguing that a book's cover must be an accurate judge of its contents.  That is the basis of the objection is it not?  Of course, their appearance might be misleading, but the impression the game gives as to their culture's identity and character is going to be based on a lot more than that.  

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

But like I said, it's a concern, that can be proven as misplaced. Not an objection to the new art style.

Sure, that's reasonable.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 30 janvier 2011 - 05:36 .

[Jimmy Fury]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Jimmy Fury wrote...

I think that falls into the first category.... sort of...

Nah, typical first category arguments are more like... "anything different from Origins is a problem because it's supposed to be the same universe." 

But wouldn't that include protests based on the assumption that the Qunari shouldn't look animalistic because they didn't look animalistic before?

Or are you aiming more for the "I AM ANGRY BECAUSE I WANT TO PLAY ORIGINS AGAIN WITH A DIFFERENT TITLE" type people and anyone that can form a more coherent thought doesn't count
Cuz if it's the latter then I admit to wrongness.

[KnightofPhoenix]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
3. Those who worry that the new art style is to potray the Qunari as incomprehensibly alien who look more like brutes and less "human" / civilized.

We are hoping to be proved wrong. At least I am.

and they might  see us as just a bunch of hairless monkeys who don't know their place in life, just as you're seeing them as a beast like race. different preconceptions for different cultures.

I am not seeing them as a beast like race.
Since this game, I presume, is going to be played by humans, the usage of horns and "inhuman" stuff in the art syle is most probably as a means to convey something. To make the Quanri look alien, and possibly feel very alien and / or demonic. 

I am not saying that Bioware will certanly make the Qunari feel barbaric and uncivilized. But that it's a concern I have.

[upsettingshorts]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

But wouldn't that include protests based on the assumption that the Qunari shouldn't look animalistic because they didn't look animalistic before?

Nah, because it's specific.  It's kind of a difference between "all change is bad" and "this change is bad."  In fact, I probably should have just described the two positions in just that way to begin with.

[The Masked Rog]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
3. Those who worry that the new art style is to potray the Qunari as incomprehensibly alien who look more like brutes and less "human" / civilized.

We are hoping to be proved wrong. At least I am.

and they might  see us as just a bunch of hairless monkeys who don't know their place in life, just as you're seeing them as a beast like race. different preconceptions for different cultures.

I am not seeing them as a beast like race.
Since this game, I presume, is going to be played by humans, the usage of horns and "inhuman" stuff in the art syle is most probably as a means to convey something. To make the Quanri look alien, and possibly feel very alien and / or demonic. 

I am not saying that Bioware will certanly make the Qunari feel barbaric and uncivilized. But that it's a concern I have.

The Qunari are the most advanced civilization in Thedas. So yes BioWare won't make them barbaric or uncivilized.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Upsettingshorts wrote...
If the game shows or tells you that the incomprehensible alien brutes are smarter and more cunning than they look, then they are.  You are, in effect, arguing that a book's cover must be an accurate judge of its contents.  That is the basis of the objection.  Of course, their appearance might be misleading, but the impression the game gives as to their culture's identity and character is going to be based on a lot more than that.  

No I am not,  I just said my concerns can be proven wrong and I hope they are.

If the Qunari are shown to be more than what they at first glance look like, then they are and I'll be happy.

What I am arguing is that a book's cover, when marketed towards people, is generally there to convey an idea of what the book is about. If I want to buy a historical book and I see a clown on the cover, I think I have reason to be concerned, even if the book might be an intellectual and academic masterpiece. 

Of course the comparision is exagerrated to convey the point (hopefully).

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 30 janvier 2011 - 05:40 .

[FellowerOfOdin]

I really like the new Qunari design, they simply look a lot more "savage" now. Sten was a very interesting character (reminded me of a depressive Wrex) but he looked pretty much like a dark-skinned human, the new Qunari now stand out.

[Voidlight]

I love the new qunari design. Then again I've always been partial to draenei.

[Jimmy Fury]

filaminstrel wrote...
Having horn stumps like so would necessitate a change in helmet design, surely. And most of the ones I remember don't have helmets. Like these or these. No, I can't say with certainty that they should have had stumps since they could have all been naturally hornless, but that seems awfully convenient when the naturally hornless are supposed to be rare and special. At best, it would be a half-assed excuse for the different appearance, if we are to take it as something that needs to be excused to begin with. Which, again, the devs really don't.

Yes it is awfully convenient. That's the point. Why make a preposterous claim when there is a convenient one right there?  Rare and special doesn't mean "only 3 exist" Pandas are rare and special but if you send a butt-load of pandas to one preserve and then go there... you'll find a butt-load of pandas!

And any theoretical changes to Sten (since he won't be seen you can't actually claim he looks different at all...)

Yes I can.

Note the words "theoretically" and "actually"
Sten can only ever theoretically look different if you never see him. If you can't see him you can't make a fact based ("actual") statement about how he looks.

[Vearsin]

The new qunari look is a redesigne done right

[Jimmy Fury]

filaminstrel wrote...

Jimmy Fury wrote...

Yes it is awfully convenient. That's the point. Why make a preposterous claim when there is a convenient one right there?  Rare and special doesn't mean "only 3 exist" Pandas are rare and special but if you send a butt-load of pandas to one preserve and then go there... you'll find a butt-load of pandas!

Right, the notion that they simply don't have horn stumps because of a change in art style is preposterous.

I never said that was preposterous. I never said anything was preposterous actually. I was simply pointing out that "that's awfully convenient" is a poor argument against anything.

Whatever. If David Gaider says he would "surely" look different, that's actual enough for me.

Not me. Surely means surely. If he was seen he would surely look different.
He won't be seen so he won't actually look different at all.

Notice how he also grants that it could be considered a retcon.
Notice how I also have not made any statement condemning it for being a retcon. I approve of the change, by the way.

Don't be fooled by Gaider's crafty professional use of words. He only said that if you want to call an art change a retcon you can. He never said you'd be right about it. He most certainly didn't say an art change is a retcon either.
Gaider doesn't share my pet peeve about people misusing the term retcon though.

[AlexXIV]

I am not big into arts, but I would like to know this art style that requires people to have horns.

[biomag]

Every change is evil!

That's why we still just play 'Pong'... everything else is dumbing down or for console players who are just plain s......

[MrDizazta]

I was to my knowledge that it was common for Qunari to be born with horns. Didn't Sten himself say this?

[Dark Specie]

I like the horns, but as for the rest of it... Not sure. For all in-game lore we've heard about them, this makes them seem far more barbaric than they gave an impression of in the first DAO. I'm not yet sure if that's a good thing or not though...

[Jimmy Fury]

AlexXIV wrote...

I am not big into arts, but I would like to know this art style that requires people to have horns.

Hot-Rod Samurai:devil:

[Nimpe]

THAT COMMA IN THE TITLE DOESN'T BELONG I'M GOING TO POINT THAT TYPO OUT AND LEAVE. BYE.

[nightcobra]

snip

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 30 janvier 2011 - 08:09 .

[Pitrus]

Easy...