230 réponses à ce sujet

[Jimmy Fury]

TJPags wrote...

Jimmy Fury wrote...

TJPags wrote...
The change in the Qunari is MUCH more than just them having horns.

I'll bite... again....

Like what?

Body shape, facial features, warpaint, hair.  Their hands look like claws in some shots.

Was that really worth capping "much" over?
Honestly except for the hands you just described the things that are different between my mage warden and my rogue warden.

Not really rage worthy stuff here.

[TJPags]

Liable****sman wrote...

TJPags wrote...
Body shape, facial features, warpaint, hair.  Their hands look like claws in some shots.

In other words, the entire visual concept has changed.
They aren't, at all, as humanoid as they were in DA:O.

Exactly.

Jimmy Fury wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Jimmy Fury wrote...

TJPags wrote...
The change in the Qunari is MUCH more than just them having horns.

I'll bite... again....

Like what?

Body shape, facial features, warpaint, hair.  Their hands look like claws in some shots.

Was that really worth capping "much" over?
Honestly except for the hands you just described the things that are different between my mage warden and my rogue warden.

Not really rage worthy stuff here.

Why do you keep mentioning "rage"?  Are my posts full of profanity, caps, threats to cancel my order or not to play the game, or any other expression of rage?  Are any other posts in this thread by anyone else? 

Anyway, yes, I chose to cap "much" because, basically, what else is there to a person (physically) besides body shape, coloring, facial features, and hair?  Height maybe? 

If you can honestly look at one of the concept pics of the Qunari, or the one in the trailer, and put Sten's head on those bodies, and say you see nothing different except the horns, well, you and I have a different definition of "different".

[AlanC9]

Liable****sman wrote...

In other words, the entire visual concept has changed.
They aren't, at all, as humanoid as they were in DA:O.

I dunno... they still look humanoid to me. Just not exactly like humans, which is a good thing. I didn't know they were supposed to be a different species until the Broodmother.

[Jimmy Fury]

TJPags wrote...
Why do you keep mentioning "rage"?  Are my posts full of profanity, caps, threats to cancel my order or not to play the game, or any other expression of rage?  Are any other posts in this thread by anyone else? 

Hey you're the one that replied to me. I said the addition of horns wasn't as big a deal as some people made it out to be and you said there was so MUCH more to it.

but yeah, there have been people who responded with profanity, caps, and threats to cancel their orders. More often people just rant on and on about how giving the Qunari horns is the stupidest thing ever and it ruins the game and all the devs are stupid for doing it and nothing ever should have changed ever blah blah blah. It's nerdrage. it's getting upset over something that is ultimately silly and useless.
Those are the people I was talking about.
yeesh.

[Meltemph]

Are Argonians not cold blooded reptile people?

Way to miss the point.

Isn't that sad?

Dramatic much?

They needed to make a change so people could see them as a race and now I am getting told to not get upset about art change since it is 'only' the look that changed. As if I am the one who is superficial. I know better than that.

Huh? You are arguing things and saying that people said things that nobody said. Seems like you wana get worked up.

I think that different species should look like different species. Yes it IS superficial because species SHOULD look different. I'm not preaching gospel, I mean come on, no need to get all "it's so sad people are so superficial with video games". I don't even see the need to take it to "that" level.

Modifié par Meltemph, 31 janvier 2011 - 05:35 .

[nightcobra]

in DAO whenever i heard peoples reactions to sten, especially in Fort Drakon where a guard refers to sten as "I don't even know what you are!" and a priestess was shocked enough to claim that the fort was being sieged by giants just by looking at him, if it were me i'd be thinking at best "he's a pretty big guy" and not "What the Hell is this thing, call the guards we're being attacked!"



so this change in aesthetics (body proportions, not just the horns) for DA2 makes sense to me.

[AlexXIV]

Meltemph wrote...

Are Argonians not cold blooded reptile people?

Way to miss the point.

Isn't that sad?

Dramatic much?

They needed to make a change so people could see them as a race and now I am getting told to not get upset about art change since it is 'only' the look that changed. As if I am the one who is superficial. I know better than that.

Huh? You are arguing things and saying that people said things that nobody said. Seems like you wana get worked up.

I think that different species should look like different species. Yes it IS superficial because species SHOULD look different. I'm not preaching gospel, I mean come on, no need to get all "it's so sad people are so superficial with video games". I don't even see the need to take it to "that" level.

Bleh Argonians look like humanoid reptiles, and they always did. You brought them up so you missed the point entirely. Unless we are now talking about what a race is.

It's sad that people go 'I didn't even notice they are a different race, WE HAVE TO CHANGE THAT. I mentioned elves and dwarves before and got the answer 'people know them already'. So it was normal that dwarves and elves are recognized as such but Qunari are just big humans because people don't know them. Well in Thedas they were known for hundrets of years.

Well if you think that different species should look different I can agree. Qunari looked different than humans in DA:O the same way elves or dwarves did which are all different species. Still doesn't tell me why elves are not green now and dwarves for example blue. Then you (and I say you meaning you personally, not everyone) would have it easier to identify them as such.

I am not sure what you think on what 'level' you are discussing but denial and evading questions isn't exactly the high school of discussion. And there have been people posting here in the fashion 'it's sad you get all upset about something like this' so that's not much different from me saying 'it's sad you need qunari have horns to recognize them as a race.'

You have actually, depsite using so much words, said nothing but 'I like them'. That's alright though, you like them, good for you. But then why didn't you just say that and go on doing whatever is worth your time more? Yet you stay in this thread which doesn't really concern you, don't really add anything to the discussion aside from your 'I like them', repeatedly, and tell people to not go on some level. So I am the one who wants to get worked up and you are ... what exactly? Huh?

Modifié par AlexXIV, 31 janvier 2011 - 01:06 .

[Redhawkdown]

I totally understand why some people would cringe at the new Qunari look, calling it Bioware's attemp to capture the masses and all. But on the other hand they do look cool, and would make for very interesting opponents with their philosophies and all.

[Redhawkdown]

TJPags wrote...

Liable****sman wrote...

TJPags wrote...
Body shape, facial features, warpaint, hair.  Their hands look like claws in some shots.

In other words, the entire visual concept has changed.
They aren't, at all, as humanoid as they were in DA:O.

Exactly.

Jimmy Fury wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Jimmy Fury wrote...

TJPags wrote...
The change in the Qunari is MUCH more than just them having horns.

I'll bite... again....

Like what?

Body shape, facial features, warpaint, hair.  Their hands look like claws in some shots.

Was that really worth capping "much" over?
Honestly except for the hands you just described the things that are different between my mage warden and my rogue warden.

Not really rage worthy stuff here.

Why do you keep mentioning "rage"?  Are my posts full of profanity, caps, threats to cancel my order or not to play the game, or any other expression of rage?  Are any other posts in this thread by anyone else? 

Anyway, yes, I chose to cap "much" because, basically, what else is there to a person (physically) besides body shape, coloring, facial features, and hair?  Height maybe? 

If you can honestly look at one of the concept pics of the Qunari, or the one in the trailer, and put Sten's head on those bodies, and say you see nothing different except the horns, well, you and I have a different definition of "different".

Yes but aside from the horns, the rest of their physical change can be attributed to the visual revamping of all the Thedas race in DA2.

For example Elves now looks different than they did in DAO. Oh and the Dalish now speak in a Whelsh accent did the dev's provide an explanation for that.?

DA:O does look a bit generic. I recall watching Origins' making of video, and when the artist say they want darkspawns face to be disturbing, twisted, yet human, i just dont see it. But now i could with the new Hurlock look.

Or when Leliana said elven maid are highly priced because people find their look appealing, i dont see it either. In origins when an elven lass speaks their face got all wrinkled. Now look at Merill. How many people on this forum had a cupid arrow pierced through their heart because of her new 'cutsey' look.

The Qunari in origin look just like a tall person with brown skin and white hair. With their new look you can see why people around Ferelden calls Sten a giant.

[Captain Sassy Pants]

marshalleck wrote...

Because people hate, fear, and/or resist change. It's just part of being human. I'm sure if Bioware changed something about DAO which you appreciated and didn't think of as "broken" you'd at the least have a dissenting opinion, and might even be inclined to voice it. There's nothing wrong with that, as long as you're not acting like an obnoxious spoiled child.

And some people just hate retcons.

What's the point of "establishing" any type of set continuity if you are just going to change it all in the next game?

[Elvis_Mazur]

I understand their concern.



When we first see the Qunari, how they used to look like, it was also the image we had of them. Sure, they were too human, but it didn't change the fact that that design, was their original look.



Now with the new design, we have something that contradicts DA:O. It just seems wrong in many ways.



As for me, I don't care at all. The DA's universe never got my attention.

[FDrage]

Actually the Qunarii change is so far the only graphical change that I like. Why? when I first played and I looked at Sten he just looked like a big sturdy build human well within the range of human body types, maybe a bit on the extreme side but still within it. SO nothing visually told me "different race" and I thought to me that Quanarii were supposed to be a different race all together not just a different branch of humans.



While it goes a bit against established "lore" still find it okish ... as long as we also see some of those "rare non horned" Quanari as well even if it is really the evry odd one out.

[Jimmy Fury]

FDrage wrote...
While it goes a bit against established "lore" still find it okish ... as long as we also see some of those "rare non horned" Quanari as well even if it is really the evry odd one out.

The best thing in the entire world would be a super top-secret cameo by Sten in which he looks virtually identical (as identical as possible with new head meshes) to how he did in Origins.

The game does start in lothering after all...

[t0mm06]

crimzontearz wrote...
Is a retcon deemed ok because it's Bioware? And before anyone jumps and says "it's not a retcon".....be reminded that your REAL defense should be :"It's not a retcon, The chantry's recordings (and your codex) were just faulty because they just never saw them up close and if they did they were wearing helmets so they thought they were hoprnamental....and they were to much in a hurry after the wars to look at all the corpses that were left behind...." and so on and so forth until you have filled in all the holes left behind by this "new look"

Yes it is a retcon, again my point wasnt that it isnt a retcon, my point is why does it matter? the designers felt that this direction was better, and i trust the designers, no not because it is bioware but because it is the same people who brought us dragon age origins, and i think it is a massive insult to not even have an ounce of trust for the people who brought us that game, why cant you just trust that they know what they are doing?! i mean dont be so arrogant as to believe that you know better then they do especially when you have no idea what the game is like having not played it

[t0mm06]

Mikey_205 wrote...

It's about creating a sense of continuity and now having my suspension of disbelief eroded by a terrible retcon. I really hate retcon because I just think its an admission that enough wasn't done the first time around. Don't release something if you aren't happy to live with the quality. It also implies that insufficient planning was put into the system. 

No sorry but you are wrong with this point and no its not a point of view, believe me i know people who make games movies art all of that stuff and they are NEVER 100% happy with there own work, its how we work as people and artist, no good artist has ever made anything that they believed was perfect. so yes we should be entitled to work on it over time and try and make it better, regarless of whether you buy it or not its never truely your game regarless of what the reps and publisist say, its the game of the designers, the people who make it. All art is

[ScotGaymer]

I dont mind the new Qunari look because I understand the reasons for it; they werent a massively visibly different species IMO and to make them a little bit more divergent is a good thing for me.



It was also explained so that it will fit in with the Lore; so I wont mind one bit.

[nightcobra]

 to me the reactions to sten from ferelden's people will finally make more sense to me.

at 3:17




and this

[t0mm06]

also one more thing OF COURSE NO ONE HAD HORNS IN THE FIRST GAME! they hadn't changed the design at that point!



secondly Biowares excuse of 'some of them dont have horns, the ones you saw didnt' they clearly dont mean to make people believe that was what they planed all along! they just had to come up with an excuse and this one works... yes its farfetched but its one of the few that actually would amke much sense

[crimzontearz]

t0mm06 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...
Is a retcon deemed ok because it's Bioware? And before anyone jumps and says "it's not a retcon".....be reminded that your REAL defense should be :"It's not a retcon, The chantry's recordings (and your codex) were just faulty because they just never saw them up close and if they did they were wearing helmets so they thought they were hoprnamental....and they were to much in a hurry after the wars to look at all the corpses that were left behind...." and so on and so forth until you have filled in all the holes left behind by this "new look"

Yes it is a retcon, again my point wasnt that it isnt a retcon, my point is why does it matter? the designers felt that this direction was better, and i trust the designers, no not because it is bioware but because it is the same people who brought us dragon age origins, and i think it is a massive insult to not even have an ounce of trust for the people who brought us that game, why cant you just trust that they know what they are doing?! i mean dont be so arrogant as to believe that you know better then they do especially when you have no idea what the game is like having not played it

oh this is going to be fun.

For starters if you bothered to read my posts you would have realized that I DO like the new Qunari look, it is the idea of such a retcon and how it was explained that feels like a handwave given the circumstances.

Secondly, Retcons are bad within the measure of importance that continuity has to some people. Remember how people freaked at the lack of full customization for companion while other thought it was not a big deal? Same for this retcon, some people find it jarring and unpleasant, others do not. Also as long as some retcons are well explained the reaction is usually very mild.
Trust does not even factor in the equation because this is not about that.

As for arrogance please remember that we are talking about people who said "we are not going to offer a certain feature because we know it would give you a subpar experience even tho you feel otherwise"...but again this is not the point and I do not hold this against bioware at large -tho it did feel like hubris to me-.

[PsychoBlonde]

Personally, I kind of like the new look, but I liked the old look too. I've seen more drastic changes in style between games in the same series before, it's nothing to go crazy over. In fact, in many games the style changes are considered a positive. Heck, Diablo didn't even maintain the same class options between games.

[crimzontearz]

thank you for proving my point PB



some people just do not care about it much, others do.

[Jimmy Fury]

crimzontearz wrote...

thank you for proving my point PB

some people just do not care about it much, others do.

Yes but some of the people who do care seem to care waaaaay too much. They also act like they're the only people who matter, are the only ones who are "true fans" of bioware, are smarter than everyone else, and should get treated with some sort of inherent level of respect just because they say so.
Which is why some of us just love arguing with them even if we don't care

-clarifying addendum-
I've been collecting comics for around 20 years. I stopped perceiving visual continuity before some people on this forum were even born so honestly they could make an entire 2-d side scrolling sequal in the same uber-stylized vein as Dragon Age Legends and I just wouldn't care. No different to me than when Bachalo takes over penciling a series and gives everyone gothy costumes.

Modifié par Jimmy Fury, 31 janvier 2011 - 06:48 .

[PsychoBlonde]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

I've been collecting comics for around 20 years. I stopped perceiving visual continuity before some people on this forum were even born so honestly they could make an entire 2-d side scrolling sequal in the same uber-stylized vein as Dragon Age Legends and I just wouldn't care. No different to me than when Bachalo takes over penciling a series and gives everyone gothy costumes.

Lol, or the amazing expanding and shrinking boobs that some female super-heroines seem to have.

The only change that would actually bother me is if they made the Qunari speak in some sort of "Me Tarzan, You Jane!" imbecile English instead of Sten's ultra-fluent, unaccented, civilized English.  I don't mind of some of them have accents (it might actually be cool to hear what a Qunari accent actually sounds like--maybe like a Dutch or Scandanavian accent since their language has all those drawn-out vowels in it.  (Saarebas, Ashkaari, Antaam, you get the picture).  But if they sound like the speaking Darkspawn from Awakening, I'm going to be PISSED.

It'd be pretty cool if you can have a conversation with a Qunari or two who don't speak Common well and they do things like stop to argue in Qunari about what you just said--that and they respond to most of your inane babble with various levels of glare and/or eye-rolling.

[nightcobra]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

Jimmy Fury wrote...

I've been collecting comics for around 20 years. I stopped perceiving visual continuity before some people on this forum were even born so honestly they could make an entire 2-d side scrolling sequal in the same uber-stylized vein as Dragon Age Legends and I just wouldn't care. No different to me than when Bachalo takes over penciling a series and gives everyone gothy costumes.

Lol, or the amazing expanding and shrinking boobs that some female super-heroines seem to have.

The only change that would actually bother me is if they made the Qunari speak in some sort of "Me Tarzan, You Jane!" imbecile English instead of Sten's ultra-fluent, unaccented, civilized English.  I don't mind of some of them have accents (it might actually be cool to hear what a Qunari accent actually sounds like--maybe like a Dutch or Scandanavian accent since their language has all those drawn-out vowels in it.  (Saarebas, Ashkaari, Antaam, you get the picture).  But if they sound like the speaking Darkspawn from Awakening, I'm going to be PISSED.

It'd be pretty cool if you can have a conversation with a Qunari or two who don't speak Common well and they do things like stop to argue in Qunari about what you just said--that and they respond to most of your inane babble with various levels of glare and/or eye-rolling.

Vashedan, all you humans are uncivilized monkeys. too inefficient and individualistic...worse than our imekari.

parshaara and panahedan.

 
anaan esaam Qun!
 

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 31 janvier 2011 - 08:56 .