80 réponses à ce sujet

[Aven]

SleeplessInSigil wrote...

-snip-

I kind of feel sorry for the fans of anything who feel the need to attack everything else in sight whenever you point out something wrong in their favorites, instead of, you know, actually defending their favorite on its own merit.

Funny how you say that after making a thread that is attacking WRPGs combat system. Irony is a cheese.

I like both. Claiming that one is objectively 'better' then the other is just silly... I just depends on what you like to play.
There are also more then one Western and more then one Japanese role playing game... I like some, but not all, from both sides... there a good and bad stuff about most games tbh.

Have to smile when people try to counter your arrogance by lowering themselves to your lvl and hate on JRPGs though.

[SleeplessInSigil]

Aven wrote...

SleeplessInSigil wrote...

-snip-

I kind of feel sorry for the fans of anything who feel the need to attack everything else in sight whenever you point out something wrong in their favorites, instead of, you know, actually defending their favorite on its own merit.

Funny how you say that after making a thread that is attacking WRPGs combat system. Irony is a cheese.

I like both. Claiming that one is objectively 'better' then the other is just silly... I just depends on what you like to play.
There are also more then one Western and more then one Japanese role playing game... I like some, but not all, from both sides... there a good and bad stuff about most games tbh.

Have to smile when people try to counter your arrogance by lowering themselves to your lvl and hate on JRPGs though.

uhh.. huh? If there's something wrong with mostly Western RPGs, why the hell should I complain about all RPGs in general, instead of just saying "WRPGs" only?

Allow me to present to you the most recent exhibit: Dragon Age II.

Go on, there's a forum right next door, have a read for yourself, if you can. All the actual players complaining about the combat (among other things) in the most recent representative of WRPGs, are being "arrogant" and simply "hating" on WRPGs as well, right? pff

That there is a real issue, and until WRPG developers stop feeling like they have to churn out a half-baked Diablo clone and intersperse it with some dialog in order to call it a RPG, the problem will remain. Hey though, do feel free to look forward to enjoying all the dumbed-down button-mashing in your copy of Dragon Effect III.

[amb2010]

SleeplessInSigil wrote...

-snip-

uhh.. huh? If there's something wrong with mostly Western RPGs, why the hell should I complain about all RPGs in general, instead of just saying "WRPGs" only?

Allow me to present to you the most recent exhibit: Dragon Age II.

Go on, there's a forum right next door, have a read for yourself, if you can. All the actual players complaining about the combat (among other things) in the most recent representative of WRPGs, are being "arrogant" and simply "hating" on WRPGs as well, right? pff

That there is a real issue, and until WRPG developers stop feeling like they have to churn out a half-baked Diablo clone and intersperse it with some dialog in order to call it a RPG, the problem will remain. Hey though, do feel free to look forward to enjoying all the dumbed-down button-mashing in your copy of Dragon Effect III.

The thing is though, there isn't anything wrong with it. You think its wrong and thats your opinion. As other people have stated, neither system is inherently better than the other. I've played Last Remnant as well and it was very amusing, the turned based combat worked well in it. I recently played Dragon Age 2 at a friends house and the combat in that was also enjoyable and I plan to get the game once I get some spare cash.

Just because I like something you don't doesnt make it wrong it just means we have different tastes. You keep asking for examples of why realtime combat is better suited for RPGs than turn based in but seem to be missing the point. All the people that are actually putting any more thought into this than "I hate JRPGS and therefore I hate turn based games" have all said the same thing, neither one is any better than the other so its impossible to give you proof of why realtime combat is better.

As for an example of why I think realtime has the ability to work well with RPGs. While I was playing Dragon Age 2 I made a rogue and got the first intro that just kinda throws you into the fight. I can see why your friend was turned off since it doesn't seem like he was familiar with Dragon Age at all so just randomly being forced to fight a bunch of things can be overwhelming, I found it interesting because it was basically a "Hey take this for a spin and see if you'll like it at later levels" instead of me having to go through 15 hours of gaming to find out I didn't like the class. But it was during that intro that I found it extremely enjoyable. As the boss in that battle does a charge thing at you I hit the wonderful button to evade, doing a backflip, dodging the bosses charge as he sends Bethany flying then doing a prompt face plant when I backstab him. It sounds fairly lame but I honestly felt like I really accomplished something and it felt good to be able to do that. That kind of feeling of fluid combat just isn't there in turn based games.

As to a side note of the ending comment you made in that quote. I honestly feel like you are just directing your general dislike for any form of WRPG. I do not see how me pressing buttons 1-4 to fight is any "dumber" or more "button masher" than a  turn based game having you click "move" then click a tile or click "attack" or "spell" then click an enemy to attack. In the end you seem to ignore anyone who makes any sensible post and just rag on the people leaving small comments about their general dislike for JRPGs. Also congrats for giving me the urge to not only make my first post directed to you, but as well be this long

Modifié par amb2010, 14 mars 2011 - 08:28 .

[FlintlockJazz]

SleeplessInSigil wrote...
Allow me to "LOL:"   LOL.

What's with all the childish replies of what's essentially "Oh Yeah? Well you too!!1" as if complaining about the competition will somehow magically fix the flaws that you yourself have.

This thread isn't about JRPGs, and it's not about WRPGs versus JRPGs.

You might as well criticize First-Person-Shooters or the political situation in Rwandazabistan for all the difference it'll make to the current state of WRPGs (entire races of pointy-eared androgynes living in trees, hairy midgets living in the ground, flying lizards that breathe fire, a taboo on gunpowder enforcing the use of primitive weapons and magic wands for a thousand centuries, over and over and over.)



I kind of feel sorry for the fans of anything who feel the need to attack everything else in sight whenever you point out something wrong in their favorites, instead of, you know, actually defending their favorite on its own merit.

As the last sentance of my post pointed out, the bit you cut out, I was showing how meaningless opinion is by doing satire.  People love the combat in WRPGs.  People love the combat in JRPGs.  Others hate them.  It's a fact of life.

Fun fact: one of the reasons why people are hating on the new DA2 is because they think it's no longer a traditional WRPG combat system in their eyes.  Whether that is true or not is irrelevant, the point is that it shows that there are people who do like the WRPG system and don't think it sucks.

[Xodarap777]

I love turn-based systems. I also love real-time systems. They're both fun when executed correctly, and they're both *potentially* tactical, strategic, interactive, and balanced -- I've seen it with mah own eyes!

The OP is grossly oversimplifying, reducing responses to satirically minimal constituents for easy retorts, creating and adhering to false dichotomies, and unable or unwilling to recognize perfectly well-articulated and fully-justified reasoning in contradiction to his beliefs.

The fact is that he finds certain elements of real-time combat to be limiting, boring, repetitive, and troublesome. I can easily say the same about aspects (inevitable aspects) of turn-based combat. They both have drawbacks that cannot be circumvented, as they're inextricably tied to the concept. Some companies have tried to overcome this by creating hybrid systems (which I think DA2 does quite well!), but by overcoming some shortfalls of either extreme, one must sacrifice some of the strengths afforded by a pure model. Sorry, but reality expressly forbids having your cake and eating it, too. Even in virtual reality. Just can't be done.

It is not as simple or one-sided as the OP seems to think. Your *opinions* are blinding you to reality. "I don't like" != "It is bad"