406 réponses à ce sujet

[In Exile]

TheMadCat wrote...

I don't know, Drakensang: The River of TIme, a semi-low budget RPG managed to pull it off.

No it didn't. Or rather, if that's your threshold, we're going to just have to agree to disagree on grounds of incompatible standards.

The characters you were talking to could move and gesture fluidly and vividly, the shot panned nicely and handled conversations with more then 2 people nicely, the world continued on and you could see NPC's walking in the background, trees blowing in the breeze, etc. 

The background is irrelevant fluff. That it seems like the game is still playing in the background is not some superlative feature that adds depth to the characterizaton of the player or the NPCs. And it is not gestures that develops a character, but rather their interaction with you. 

When people talk, they don't just stand straight and gesture at each other, via the talking head syndrome. Conversations are more invovled than than. You can script that, though - the problem is that the player is a fixed puppet. How do you script the player interact (e.g. touches, etc.).

[Emissary of the Dark]

Its fine in an action game like god of war or gears of war but in an RPG it is unacceptable

[SirOccam]

Inarborat wrote...

iampool wrote...

Im playing Dead Space (the first one), and im just f**ing hating Isaac isn't voiced, it just makes him looks so stupid.
.

No way.  Like in DA:O, Dead Space did not need a voiced hero.  It added so much to the emptiness of the ship. 

If a silent protagonist works, I don't mind.  Most voice acting tends to be awful in video games anyways.

I would be with you except that there are other people talking to him. And no one seems to even think it odd that he never says a thing. That's just a bit too much for my disbelief to be properly suspended.

I was okay with it in Origins (though I'm glad it's not in DA2), because you were still choosing responses. Your character was still speaking, in a sense, even if you didn't hear it. Being silent  when people are trying to communicate you is just awkward though.

[Images]

Faust1979 wrote...

 It's 2011 a mute hero was fine in the 80s and 90s when games and hardware didn't have a lot of power. But it's 2011 now. It's time to leave the mute hero in the past. Games need to grow and change not stay in the past. Dragon Age is one fun game but the mute hero is a relic of the past. 

Okay, its not a matter of hardware, some people just don't like paraphrasing in their answer choices

Furthermore...

Are you seriously starting ANOTHER thread on this?

Aren't there enough?

[TheMadCat]

In Exile wrote...

The background is irrelevant fluff. That it seems like the game is still playing in the background is not some superlative feature that adds depth to the characterizaton of the player or the NPCs. And it is not gestures that develops a character, but rather their interaction with you.

Sure, but how often do we need to have characters have a physical interaction while simultaneously talking and why is that an insurmountable obstacle?

When people talk, they don't just stand straight and gesture at each other, via the talking head syndrome. Conversations are more invovled than than. You can script that, though - the problem is that the player is a fixed puppet. How do you script the player interact (e.g. touches, etc.).

When you need the characters to make physical contact you do it through short little cutscenes, the NPC's can have the conversation and emotional expressions with the shot being taken over the PC's shoulder or hell you can even show the PC's face and give him animated expressions without having him actually "speaking" a word in the shot. Once the interaction and the PC needs to "speak" you revert back to first person. Not really difficult, just need to be creative.

Modifié par TheMadCat, 31 janvier 2011 - 05:55 .

[tmp7704]

In Exile wrote...

When people talk, they don't just stand straight and gesture at each other, via the talking head syndrome. Conversations are more invovled than than. You can script that, though - the problem is that the player is a fixed puppet. How do you script the player interact (e.g. touches, etc.).

I don't know what sort of conversations you're usually having, but most of mine do pretty much boil down to the standing/sitting and talking with gestures stuff rather than groping one another or standing up to dramatically survey collection of firearms on the wall every five minutes, e.g.

[Matchy Pointy]

Well, I love the voiced hero, but mute heroes arent neccecerily a bad thing, I think there is time and places for both of them.

[AlphaMaeko]

I, for one,think that having a voice actor directly responsible for any and all main character dialogue options severely limits the content thrown into that character- maybe even by half.



It pains me to admit that Bioware's lack of finesse with facial animations- and limitations related to heavily morphed custom faces- makes me long for a silent protagonist, again. I felt allot more "connected" to my KOTOR character than I do to Shepard.

[ThatDancingTurian]

To be honest, quickly after starting a DA:O game I forget my character isn't voiced. It doesn't affect me at all to not have one. I think PC voicing can be a double-edged sword. If the voice is a good one then it can enhance the game, while another might throw you out of the experience.



There's one recurring female voice in DA:O, I'm not sure the VA's name, but her voice is -very- distinctive. Every time I hear an NPC voiced by her I immediately think, 'oh, it's her again...' and it takes away the immersion.

[Demx]

My Warden had a voice. It's just that his mic was broken.



My only problem is how attached is the voice actor to the role? It would be easier for an actor to become Hawke if he had a specific set of mannerisms. However, Hawke is all over the place because we get to choose what he says.

[Emssry4]

I feel like; if you do a VO:PC you can't just go back to a silent character.

[FellowerOfOdin]

Dragon Age 2 is, as all Bioware games, played for its story. Nobody will play Dragon Age 2 just because of the combat, people play it for the story and demand a credible, interesting world. A silent protagonist heavily breaks immersion.



You got an extremely emotional scene, a woman cries and asks you for help, kneeling before you, and your warden in DA:O was like "DUHHHHHH", standing around like an idiot, not saying anything not even having proper facial expression.



I just finished playing through Mass Effect 1 again (Bioware, I hope the person who had the Mako idea got fired a long time ago. Seriously.) and boy was it different. Different? No, let's say better because it truly is.



So, I am happy that Bioware decided to take a step forward and make a modern game unlike companies like Nintendo who still make the same mistakes and seriously release a RPG with a silent protagonist...gods, Link is one retarded son of a fairy.

[Addai]

FellowerOfOdin wrote...
You got an extremely emotional scene, a woman cries and asks you for help, kneeling before you, and your warden in DA:O was like "DUHHHHHH", standing around like an idiot, not saying anything not even having proper facial expression.

I just finished playing through Mass Effect 1 again (Bioware, I hope the person who had the Mako idea got fired a long time ago. Seriously.) and boy was it different. Different? No, let's say better because it truly is.

So, I am happy that Bioware decided to take a step forward and make a modern game unlike companies like Nintendo who still make the same mistakes and seriously release a RPG with a silent protagonist...gods, Link is one retarded son of a fairy.

The Warden is only voiceless and expressionless if you have no imagination.

And it's not "truly better," nor is it the be all end all of modern gaming.  It is a matter of opinion and preference.  However BioWare does seem to want to go down the road of the voiced PC.  There's still Bethesda.

[ThatDancingTurian]

Addai67 wrote...

The Warden is only voiceless and expressionless if you have no imagination.

I agree with this assessment. There was never a moment my character not having a voice broke immersion for me. My mind can fill in the blanks well enough.

However, there have been many times voiced characters have. For instance, when they read a line and it's obvious it was read at a different time because their pitch is different or they sounded upset a moment ago and they don't now. VOs seem to mess up my suspension of belief more than having a silent character.

[upsettingshorts]

Addai67 wrote...

The Warden is only voiceless and expressionless if you have no imagination.

The Warden is only voiced and has expressions if you lack ears and eyes. 

Your imagination does not put content into the game, it fabricates it in your mind. 

Addai67 wrote...

And it's not "truly better," nor is it the be all end all of modern gaming.  It is a matter of opinion and preference. 

This is true.

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

broke immersion for me

Immersion in a game is a subjective experience.  For me, a silent protagonist in an otherwise fully voiced game breaks my immersion because of the inconsistency.  I don't mind if the protagonist is silent if everyone else is (for the most part) such as in text-based cRPGs.  The switching between hearing a line spoken and reading it in my head takes me out of the game and out of the moment, which is the defining aspect of immersion for me. 

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 31 janvier 2011 - 10:23 .

[Collider]

I see little problem with a voiced protagonist if the dialog options are properly labeled. Unfortunately, even ME2 has problems with this.

[TheOrtReport]

While I don't prefer one or the other in general, I think games like Dragon Age are better with the mute hero, for me atleast.  In my mind, my warden said everything and said it exactly the way that I wanted him to say it, which is something that I believe voiced protagonists can't do.

[Mlaar]

Silent or voiced is all the same to me.

Infact a silent character is sometimes better as I can imagine what he said whereas a voiced character rarely speaks the words that I think.

[DanaScu]

FellowerOfOdin wrote...

Dragon Age 2 is, as all Bioware games, played for its story. Nobody will play Dragon Age 2 just because of the combat, people play it for the story and demand a credible, interesting world. A silent protagonist heavily breaks immersion.

You got an extremely emotional scene, a woman cries and asks you for help, kneeling before you, and your warden in DA:O was like "DUHHHHHH", standing around like an idiot, not saying anything not even having proper facial expression.

I just finished playing through Mass Effect 1 again (Bioware, I hope the person who had the Mako idea got fired a long time ago. Seriously.) and boy was it different. Different? No, let's say better because it truly is.

So, I am happy that Bioware decided to take a step forward and make a modern game unlike companies like Nintendo who still make the same mistakes and seriously release a RPG with a silent protagonist...gods, Link is one retarded son of a fairy.

And then your female Hawke replies in the soft dulcet tones of Isolde "TEEGHAN! WHO IS THIS WOMAN?!?"

Or what about "I can't find my muvver!"

Or any of the totally deadpan emotionless lines that maleShep comes out with? I couldn't stand the voice for maleShep; he never made it off the Normandy to Eden Prime. What good is it to have a voice for your character that you can't stand to play?

Not to mention hearing the same voice actor for multiple parts usually causes a double-take and broken immersion. Didn't I just hear you in that last town?

I happy for you; you apparently haven't run into a voice you can't stand yet. However I'll keep my silent pc for the rpg games. Their voice always matches what I think it should be.

[DanaScu]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

The Warden is only voiceless and expressionless if you have no imagination.

I agree with this assessment. There was never a moment my character not having a voice broke immersion for me. My mind can fill in the blanks well enough.

However, there have been many times voiced characters have. For instance, when they read a line and it's obvious it was read at a different time because their pitch is different or they sounded upset a moment ago and they don't now. VOs seem to mess up my suspension of belief more than having a silent character.

Oh yeah.

[Few87]

Having a VO is fine for games like mass effect where you are playing a heavily pre defined character, like DA2 will be. However for a game like DA it breaks the immersion as your building the character you want and you can imagine how they would speak their lines. By adding a VO it helps those who either dont have or dont want to use their imagination. If you know what I mean

[ThatDancingTurian]

DanaScu wrote...

And then your female Hawke replies in the soft dulcet tones of Isolde "TEEGHAN! WHO IS THIS WOMAN?!?"

I lol'd IRL.

Because some people have been bringing it up; one really shouldn't lump together expressions with voices either. I was doing the Landsmeet just the other day and Alistair had some of the weirdest expressions during what were meant to be some really emotional lines.

Modifié par Aris Ravenstar, 31 janvier 2011 - 12:31 .

[Kairi Hawke]

i like both but i like voiced more as its more realistic.

[Aldandil]

The Warden isn't mute, s/he's unvoiced. It might be nitpicking, but you should use correct terminology.