406 réponses à ce sujet

[AlexXIV]

Aldandil wrote...

The Warden isn't mute, s/he's unvoiced. It might be nitpicking, but you should use correct terminology.

You wanted to say the 'Grey Warden' or the 'Hero of Ferelden'. To use correct terminology. Warden could be anyone who guards a door or something. Just sayin'

[Amfortas]

I guess I can live with a voiced protagonist since I usually have to play with the volume turned off, so it's not like I'm going to notice it. I only ask that the paraphrases and the spoken lines have the same meaning.

I think the OP is right and voiced protagonists are the future of Bioware RPGs, but that doesn't mean that cinematic RPGs with a predefined character are the future of RPGs. It would be better if voiced and silent could coexist, variety is always better.

[Aldandil]

AlexXIV wrote...

Aldandil wrote...

The Warden isn't mute, s/he's unvoiced. It might be nitpicking, but you should use correct terminology.

You wanted to say the 'Grey Warden' or the 'Hero of Ferelden'. To use correct terminology. Warden could be anyone who guards a door or something. Just sayin'

Well, a mute is a person that is unable to speak, and your PC in DA:O is able to speak. As I said, it's nitpicking, but if I wanted to refer to the Warden in DA:O, it would be bad to write "Qunari Warrior".

[Ulathar]

chunkyman wrote...
Just because it's a dated system in no way makes it less entertaining and enjoyable. Both have distinct advantages and weaknesses. It's up to personal preference. I prefer a silent PC, but I can see the benefits of a VO.

this

[Nighteye2]

Faust1979 wrote...
 It's 2011 a mute hero was fine in the 80s and 90s when games and hardware didn't have a lot of power. But it's 2011 now. It's time to leave the mute hero in the past. Games need to grow and change not stay in the past. Dragon Age is one fun game but the mute hero is a relic of the past. 

That's your opinion. Some players, like me, actually prefer a silent protagonist. It makes it much easier to identify with my PC, to hear my PC's voice in my head when I pick the lines.

Just because VO is possible doesn't mean it's always a good thing...

[philbo1965uk]

I prefer a silent PC.....

[Redhawkdown]

Cariborne wrote...

The way I look at it, depending on how DA2 works out, DA3 can be with your Silent Warden, and with Hawke. Turning Hawke into a glorified companion! YAY!

Not gonna happen.

[errant_knight]

Voiced characters diminish roleplay for me. I don't want my reactions handed to me by an actor. I wouldn't mind as much if the dialogue was the same as origins, though. The dialogue wheel is a worse thing for me than having it voice acted. It puts an interface between me and conversation and makes the whole thing a minigame rather than realistic seeming communication.

Modifié par errant_knight, 31 janvier 2011 - 06:05 .

[Zjarcal]

errant_knight wrote...

Voiced characters diminish roleplay for me. I don't want my reactions handed to me by an actor. I wouldn't mind as much if the dialogue was the same as origins, though. The dialogue wheel is a worse thing for me than having it voice acted. It puts an interface between me and conversation and makes the whole thing a minigame rather than realistic seeming communication.

Is it because of the paraphrasing?

[mellifera]

How is the dialogue wheel a minigame? That's just... bizarre.

[upsettingshorts]

yukidama wrote...

How is the dialogue wheel a minigame? That's just... bizarre.

Because it's in a circle.  

[Riknas]

Dark Specie wrote...

Meh, I don't really care whether my PC is voiced or not...

But still, I prefer a silent PC for practical reasons - if they do a voiced PC, they have to put alot of resources in it - resources that could be better used elsewhere, and the game'll likely be shorter/smaller/more linear as a result of having a voiced PC as well

Have you played either Half Life games? Even without a Voice Over it's very easy to keep a game remarkably linear.

[Xewaka]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

yukidama wrote...
How is the dialogue wheel a minigame? That's just... bizarre.

Because it's in a circle.  

It's a guessing game. You have to guess what phrase the writer thought would be conveyed by that specific paraphrase. If you're playing a localized game, it gets even better: You have to guess what the translator guessed the writer meant by the paraphrase and then guess what the paraphrase meant.
No one said it was a good minigame.

[upsettingshorts]

Xewaka wrote...

No one said it was a good minigame.

Meh.  I legitimately don't care about the precise words that follow the selection of the paraphrase.  I have to guess tone and intent in DAO's system, is that a minigame too?

DAO: Words.
ME1-2:  Tone (position on the wheel).
DA2: Tone and intent (the symbols).

I understand that some people prefer that.

Each is missing something.  That's why the Deus Ex: Human Revolution approach of having the paraphrased dialogue wheel with the full line appearing upon selection is often offered as an example

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 31 janvier 2011 - 07:22 .

[Captain Sassy Pants]

Riknas wrote...

Dark Specie wrote...

Meh, I don't really care whether my PC is voiced or not...

But still, I prefer a silent PC for practical reasons - if they do a voiced PC, they have to put alot of resources in it - resources that could be better used elsewhere, and the game'll likely be shorter/smaller/more linear as a result of having a voiced PC as well

Have you played either Half Life games? Even without a Voice Over it's very easy to keep a game remarkably linear.

Poor example. What he says still stands: having a voiced PC means that more of the budget is going towards that end, and the game gets cut backs in other areas (see: race options).

[Xewaka]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Xewaka wrote...
No one said it was a good minigame.

Meh.  I legitimately don't care about the precise words that follow the selection of the paraphrase.  I have to guess tone and intent in DAO's system, is that a minigame too?
DAO: Words.
ME1-2:  Tone (position on the wheel).
DA2: Tone and intent (the symbols).
I understand that some people prefer that.
Each is missing something.  That's why the Deus Ex: Human Revolution approach of having the paraphrased dialogue wheel with the full line appearing upon selection is often offered as an example

Yeah. We had that argument before. I personally believe Monkey Island 3 did it best, allowing to review full lines and then voicing the choices. But that's because I believe the precise words are important to play a coherent character.
Yes, Monkey Island is a different genre of game, but still did the voices better than ME for me.

Modifié par Xewaka, 31 janvier 2011 - 07:28 .

[mellifera]

So I was playing a minigame in DAO as well, then? Because I sure as hell had to guess whether characters would take the words as a good-natured joke as I intended or get horribly offended because my character delivered it in whatever way they felt and I had no control over it anyway?

[upsettingshorts]

Probably (we've had the argument before.) I probably responded that I don't like seeing the line before I hear it because I'm unable to resist reading it to myself (in my head) and then hearing it again, and the repetition kills me.

There really isn't gonna be an approach that appeals to everyone without resorting to a toggle in some way, I don't think.

Captain Sassy Pants wrote...

(see: race options).

The story also calls for this, which was another choice.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 31 janvier 2011 - 07:31 .

[Riknas]

Captain Sassy Pants wrote...

Riknas wrote...

Dark Specie wrote...

Meh, I don't really care whether my PC is voiced or not...

But still, I prefer a silent PC for practical reasons - if they do a voiced PC, they have to put alot of resources in it - resources that could be better used elsewhere, and the game'll likely be shorter/smaller/more linear as a result of having a voiced PC as well

Have you played either Half Life games? Even without a Voice Over it's very easy to keep a game remarkably linear.

Poor example. What he says still stands: having a voiced PC means that more of the budget is going towards that end, and the game gets cut backs in other areas (see: race options).

This is true, but to assume that only the voice overs can do it seems...unfair? Perhaps its just devil's advocate calling out to me, but similarly, we could get rid of all the graphical assets to the game to put more money towards the story and have a massive text based adventure, but I think we're all nicely attached to the "graphics" part of the game. Voice overs can also be a nice attachment to people.

Hell, couldn't we argue then that actually, having too long of a story can get in the way of voice acting for the character?

[Dave of Canada]

I guess the non-voiced character is also a minigame with the logic in this thread, as often than not I had to guess the tone of a few phrases and how it would be interpreted by the NPC.

[Dave of Canada]

Upsettingshorts wrote...
I probably responded that I don't like seeing the line before I hear it because I'm unable to resist reading it to myself (in my head) and then hearing it again, and the repetition kills me.

Same here, I'm going to be frustrated throughout Deus Ex: HR and I'm just going to wonder why they bothered at all.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 31 janvier 2011 - 07:35 .

[Xewaka]

yukidama wrote...
So I was playing a minigame in DAO as well, then? Because I sure as hell had to guess whether characters would take the words as a good-natured joke as I intended or get horribly offended because my character delivered it in whatever way they felt and I had no control over it anyway?

If you want to consider it a minigame, then go ahead. I was just trying to guess where the dialogue wheel minigame theory came from.
If we break down it into enough component parts, every game is a succession and combination of small minigames (click heal when X character health bar below amount Y = Healing minigame, and so on and so forth).
I never had a problem with DA:O conversations. Not at the level of ME, anyway.

Dave of Canada wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...
I probably responded that I don't like seeing the line before I hear it because I'm unable to resist reading it to myself (in my head) and then hearing it again, and the repetition kills me.

Same here, I'm going to be frustrated throughout Deus Ex: HR and I'm just going to wonder why they bothered at all.

Because people like me will enjoy a feature that allows such degree of foreknowledge in the conversation.

Modifié par Xewaka, 31 janvier 2011 - 07:38 .

[SurelyForth]

yukidama wrote...

So I was playing a minigame in DAO as well, then? Because I sure as hell had to guess whether characters would take the words as a good-natured joke as I intended or get horribly offended because my character delivered it in whatever way they felt and I had no control over it anyway?

I think we've established that the wheel format confers minigame status, yuki.

And I agree on misinterpreting lines. More *words* does not necessarily mean it's more transparent. I've had to redo several conversations in DAO because what I thought I was saying was NOT what they heard (or something). In ME2, I only had to worry about my twitchy Renegade interrupt finger getting me into trouble.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 31 janvier 2011 - 07:38 .

[mellifera]

Personally I have had more problems with my character being misinterpreted due to the line I picked in DAO than in Mass Effect. What's so much more effective about full lines vs. a dialogue wheel if what you select is going to be wildly misinterpreted by the character you are speaking to anyway? Regardless of how you hear it in your head, it's just as bad when there's no tone indicator and you end up calling someone's mother a nug fetishist when you meant she makes a great roast nug. It's not perfect in Mass Effect, but you usually have an idea of how what you say will come across depending on the position on the wheel (and the color in some cases) and how that will be received by the person you are speaking to. You don't control exactly what your character says, but I feel it is a fair trade off *shrug*

Modifié par yukidama, 31 janvier 2011 - 07:47 .