13 réponses à ce sujet

[AntiChri5]

Many skills have a prerequisite skill, which must be levelled up slightly before you can unlock the skill you originally wanted. I am sure i am not the only one who is seriously annoyed by this.

The problem is not just that having to level abilities that are useless or you simply dislike means you cannot fully level everything you do want, but you are forced to build some characters similarly. No matter what you do, a level 30 Grunt, Zaeed and Garrus will either have a massive amount of unspent points or have Concussive Shot, a skill i strongly dislike. And yet i am forced into it with three squad mates.

This even hits Shepard. Shockwave unlocking Pull is a serious pain for the Vanguard, with many players taking a bonus power very similar to pull simply to escape those wasted points.

Jack suffers from the same problem as the Vanguard, with Shockwave unlocking Pull, seriously damaging her usefulness to the point where at least one player uses a save editor to get those points back and put them somewhere useful.

Does anybody else want prerequisites  to simply **** off and die? They only get in the way, diminishing my enjoyment of the game. I can't even see why they were implemented.

I seriously hope Mass Effect 3 has no points wasted on unlocking the powers i want. Do you agree? Disagree? Why?

Modifié par AntiChri5, 30 janvier 2011 - 11:12 .

[Kronner]

Yes. Kill it with fire.



Unlocking skills is not a bad idea (generally), but if you must dump points into usless power(s), it sucks.

[lazuli]

It's one way of balancing powers and differentiating characters (Miranda's Overload might be initially more appealing than Garrus' because of her lack of prerequisite), but I think it's an outdated relic.

I'd prefer a level requirement (no Pull for Vanguards until level 10), though I am sure there are better options.

Edit: Punctuation.

Modifié par lazuli, 30 janvier 2011 - 11:39 .

[AdmiralCheez]

I agree with lazuli: level requirement > skill requirement. The fact that everyone has a limited number of powers to begin with prevents anyone from becoming overpowered. Of course, if skills like Concussive Shot and Shockwave were still useful on higher difficulties, this wouldn't be a problem.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

I'm on the fence on this one.



I can relate to the annoyance of having to waste points in stuff like shockwave and concussive shot, but idk if level reqs would necessarily be better.



Level caps may mean no more early maxing of unique class powers, which is important some builds.



On the other hand, level caps don't really address the problem of crappy powers. Even though we would no longer be required to level them, they will still be there wasting space. It could be better just to rework these powers so that they become viable.

[BurnedToast]

Unlocking skills is annoying, but not to terrible on it's own.



What makes it intolerable is the global cooldown, which renders the other power absolutely redundant. Being forced to pick shockwave on jack to get pull wouldn't be so bad... if you could actually use them both. But you can't, and what situation would you ever want to use shockwave for once you already have pull?



ME3 needs to either remove the GCD or remove prerequisites for powers. I'd rather see the GCD go but as long as one does I'm ok with it.

[lazuli]

BurnedToast wrote...

Unlocking skills is annoying, but not to terrible on it's own.

What makes it intolerable is the global cooldown, which renders the other power absolutely redundant. Being forced to pick shockwave on jack to get pull wouldn't be so bad... if you could actually use them both. But you can't, and what situation would you ever want to use shockwave for once you already have pull?

ME3 needs to either remove the GCD or remove prerequisites for powers. I'd rather see the GCD go but as long as one does I'm ok with it.

But if you remove the global cooldown suddenly you have a dozen one-point-wonder moves that you can spam in rapid succession to lock down your opponents, just like in ME1, without requiring much of an investment on the part of the player.

[Lycidas]

I agree unlocking skills is the horror.

[BurnedToast]

lazuli wrote...

BurnedToast wrote...

Unlocking skills is annoying, but not to terrible on it's own.

What makes it intolerable is the global cooldown, which renders the other power absolutely redundant. Being forced to pick shockwave on jack to get pull wouldn't be so bad... if you could actually use them both. But you can't, and what situation would you ever want to use shockwave for once you already have pull?

ME3 needs to either remove the GCD or remove prerequisites for powers. I'd rather see the GCD go but as long as one does I'm ok with it.

But if you remove the global cooldown suddenly you have a dozen one-point-wonder moves that you can spam in rapid succession to lock down your opponents, just like in ME1, without requiring much of an investment on the part of the player.

As opposed to ME2 where you have 1 or 2 viable choices and everything else is garbage and pointless? 

Remove GCD. Put a tiny bit of effort into balancing the powers so there are no 1 point wonders (or if you must, hide the 1 point wonders behind required skills since the prereq won't be rendered redundant by a stupid GCD).

[Bozorgmehr]

lazuli wrote...

BurnedToast wrote...

Unlocking skills is annoying, but not to terrible on it's own.

What makes it intolerable is the global cooldown, which renders the other power absolutely redundant. Being forced to pick shockwave on jack to get pull wouldn't be so bad... if you could actually use them both. But you can't, and what situation would you ever want to use shockwave for once you already have pull?

ME3 needs to either remove the GCD or remove prerequisites for powers. I'd rather see the GCD go but as long as one does I'm ok with it.

But if you remove the global cooldown suddenly you have a dozen one-point-wonder moves that you can spam in rapid succession to lock down your opponents, just like in ME1, without requiring much of an investment on the part of the player.

Removing the GCD means the end of Mass Effect being a shooter - not something I'd like to see. Some powers need to be re-balanced to make them all useful in the right circumstances so player has choice which one to use.

I don't like the unlocking, but ME2 has way too many skill points anyway. The whole leveling system needs a facelift IMHO. The VG Shockwave example is pretty good, player at least has to chose between getting Pull Field, but that means there are too few points to max either bonus power or Cryo Ammo. Without the restriction everybody would end up with exactly the same build (which is bad IMHO).

One should never be able to get all the great skills - there must be choice. The unlocking by itself is bad, but it at least forces some restrictions on what powers player can use and when they become available. The lesser evil so to say.

[kstarler]

I actually don't mind the unlocking (though I do edit Jack to remove Shockwave, purely for the ability to use Pull with the squad mate power trigger. I don't re-spend the points). I agree with Boz on this one.

[BurnedToast]

How does removing the GCD make ME not a shooter? You still have guns, you still shoot things... ME1 was a shooter and it didn't have GCD. Maybe some classes (adept) would be less reliant on shooting... but is more variety of play styles really a bad thing?



It just makes the power system a whole lot more flexible. Take shockwave, for example. Everyone that gets shockwave also gets pull and pull is better then shockwave. Shockwave is absolutely 100% redundant and useless for everyone with the GCD. With no GCD (and longer individual cooldowns of course) you could use shockwave as a quick attack for when pull was cooling down - it would be a viable choice and maybe you'd want to put points in it.



Or take the whole adept class - you get 5 power choices (not including bonus power), but you only really pick 2 - warp and singularity. you don't need anything else, they are all rendered redundant by those 2 (and hell, once you get heavy singularity you can get by without warp). Oh sure, maybe you put points into throw eventually (because you run out of other things to put points in) to push people off ledges for the lulz, but is there anyone who seriously recommends not maxing class skill, warp, and singularity first?



ME1 was broken and easy, yes. I agree. GCD was a bad way to try and fix that and any difficulty increase in ME2 came from other things (like removing weapon/armor customization or protections blocking powers). ME2 is also pretty damn easy too, anyway.

[Bogsnot1]

1 point unlock would be tolerable, but not a 2 point unlock

[Pedro Costa]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

I agree with lazuli: level requirement > skill requirement.  

+1

Ideally, we'd have level requirements before being able to unlock a certain power, or, alternatively, as Bogsnot said, a single point investment, opposed to 3 (rank 2 -> 3 point allocation).