196 réponses à ce sujet

[Soahfreako]

Lumikki wrote...

thompsonaf wrote...

Your search for « thermal clips » returned 24 result/s.

What kind of kush was Bioware smoking with the thermal clips?
http://social.biowar...03/index/791105

Opinions on the Thermal Clips?
http://social.biowar...03/index/846385

Thermal clips are idiotic
http://social.biowar...03/index/894769

Lots of complaints about thermal clips, but what about ship fuel?
http://social.biowar...03/index/898053

Thermal Clips is a great Idea
http://social.biowar...03/index/899892

Do NPC enemies drop anything besides thermal clips?
http://social.biowar...03/index/929296

For those complaining about combat and thermal clips
http://social.biowar...03/index/946018

One thing I really dislike about ME2 - Thermal Clips (nerd rant)
http://social.biowar...03/index/946428

Thermal Clips question
http://social.biowar...03/index/960265

Thermal Clips
http://social.biowar...03/index/961931

Let's get rid of thermal clips.. Codex Entry style
http://social.biowar...3/index/1033537

Why thermal clips are here to stay....
http://social.biowar...3/index/1034467

Thermal Clips and Heat Sinks. Something bugs me.
http://social.biowar...3/index/2543014

Thermal Clips Lore- What if the answer was that simple?
http://social.biowar...3/index/5002527

Thermal Clips. What the hell? 
http://social.biowar...3/index/5879678

Thermal clips. Unnecessary Crutch.
http://social.biowar...05/index/870541

Replenishing Medi-gel (and Thermal clips) between missions?
http://social.biowar...5/index/1040512

Thermal Clips?
http://social.biowar...5/index/1138069

Thermal Clips vs Normal Clips
http://social.biowar...5/index/1248106

Why thermal clips? Why not ammo blocks?
http://social.biowar...5/index/1525566

You know what would have made much more sense storyline wise than current thermal clips?
http://social.biowar...5/index/2533729

A solution for ME3 with the wall-banging fridge-logical Thermal Clips
http://social.biowar...5/index/3191055

[Poll] Thermal Clips or Overheating
http://social.biowar...5/index/5015069

Introduction of Thermal Clips.
http://social.biowar...5/index/5741302

*Edited for readability*

Edited for links to work directly

That's just the ones with thermal clip in the title....

[CroGamer002]

Gleym wrote...

Shotokanguy wrote...

Gameplay is important too. Let's let some things slide.

Didn't change gameplay that much for me, outside of making it more annoying. Then I altered the game to use the heat system and my gameplay vastly improved, although it was still greatly hampered by the fact that it relied still on ME2's mechanics rather than the original heat system.

Annoying?

In other words you only use "spray and pray" technique.

[The7Sins]

The thermal clip system was an annoying feature and made gameplay a lot worse in ME2. Hopefully Bioware gives us an option in ME3 on whether to use ME1's or ME2's combat system. Or just goes back to ME1's system for the betterment of all.



Also the fact that the thermal clip system is an obvious downgrade in technology and a retcon in game makes me furious on Bioware doing this.

[SalsaDMA]

The7Sins wrote...

The thermal clip system was an annoying feature and made gameplay a lot worse in ME2. Hopefully Bioware gives us an option in ME3 on whether to use ME1's or ME2's combat system. Or just goes back to ME1's system for the betterment of all.

Also the fact that the thermal clip system is an obvious downgrade in technology and a retcon in game makes me furious on Bioware doing this.

No, and no.

You're just to tied up in your own mind to see it, appearantly.

Already today there are research being done in disposable heatsinks for various usage. Disposable heatsinks is way more effective at dealing with heat issues than adding extra cooling features will be. The only problem science faces is how to get the heat diverted proper into the disposable medium.

And to the guys claiming a lack of quality in some of the missions (like Jacob's for instance) make it a retcon, you are wrong. A Retcon would be if they had claimed that everyone everywhere had always used heatsinks. They don't do that, but give a timeline and an evolution of the equipment used by forces in the ME world.

That the designers of some of the missions dropped the ball and forgot to keep things tidy doesn't make anything a retcon. It just makes the quality of consistence bad on those specific missions. Just like them having top of the line mechs in Jacobs mission isn't a retcon either, just development not caring enough about details to create enemies that would only be eno****ered in one mission, or gamemechanics/weapons that would also only be used for one mission.

[The7Sins]

SalsaDMA wrote...

The7Sins wrote...

The thermal clip system was an annoying feature and made gameplay a lot worse in ME2. Hopefully Bioware gives us an option in ME3 on whether to use ME1's or ME2's combat system. Or just goes back to ME1's system for the betterment of all.

Also the fact that the thermal clip system is an obvious downgrade in technology and a retcon in game makes me furious on Bioware doing this.

No, and no.

You're just to tied up in your own mind to see it, appearantly.

Already today there are research being done in disposable heatsinks for various usage. Disposable heatsinks is way more effective at dealing with heat issues than adding extra cooling features will be. The only problem science faces is how to get the heat diverted proper into the disposable medium.

And to the guys claiming a lack of quality in some of the missions (like Jacob's for instance) make it a retcon, you are wrong. A Retcon would be if they had claimed that everyone everywhere had always used heatsinks. They don't do that, but give a timeline and an evolution of the equipment used by forces in the ME world.

That the designers of some of the missions dropped the ball and forgot to keep things tidy doesn't make anything a retcon. It just makes the quality of consistence bad on those specific missions. Just like them having top of the line mechs in Jacobs mission isn't a retcon either, just development not caring enough about details to create enemies that would only be eno****ered in one mission, or gamemechanics/weapons that would also only be used for one mission.

1. I'm not arguing if ME1's combat was more realistic. I could care less for realistic. It was however more fun and made the game a unique experience from every other damn shooter game.

2. Still makes it a retcon when something isn't properly explained and suddenly 2 years later everyone's guns are worse off. In ME1 you could fire indefinetely or mod the guns to do whatever you wanted. In ME2 your forced to use an ammo sstem. Seems if we are able to do away with ammo needs in guns 2 years in the past it would be idiotic to go back to using ammo.
Then again this is only 1 aspect of ME1 that worsened the game. The lack of plot development, major plot holes, global cooldown on powers, and the fact Biotics can no longer work on people who have shields or those with armor makes no damn sense. Bioware did there damnedest to ruin the good experience that ME1 produced. I hope and pray that they go back to there roots and make ME3 less of a generic shooter. If I want to play a damn generic shooter I'll play Team Fortress 2, Fallout NV, or Borderlands. Only reason I even bothered to play ME2 was to get my Shepards from ME1 ready to be transfered to ME3.

[SalsaDMA]

The7Sins wrote...

2. Still makes it a retcon when something isn't properly explained and suddenly 2 years later everyone's guns are worse off. In ME1 you could fire indefinetely or mod the guns to do whatever you wanted. In ME2 your forced to use an ammo sstem. Seems if we are able to do away with ammo needs in guns 2 years in the past it would be idiotic to go back to using ammo.
Then again this is only 1 aspect of ME1 that worsened the game. The lack of plot development, major plot holes, global cooldown on powers, and the fact Biotics can no longer work on people who have shields or those with armor makes no damn sense. Bioware did there damnedest to ruin the good experience that ME1 produced. I hope and pray that they go back to there roots and make ME3 less of a generic shooter. If I want to play a damn generic shooter I'll play Team Fortress 2, Fallout NV, or Borderlands. Only reason I even bothered to play ME2 was to get my Shepards from ME1 ready to be transfered to ME3.

Weapons worse off? Are you comparing Hahne Keddar I standard issue assault rifles or Spectre X extremely limited spec ops assault rifles with the Vindicator standard issue assault rifle here?

And are you comparing whatever rifle you chose to pick with hitting against an onyx I standard issue light armor with its inherent kinetic shield, a Ursus X double modded heavy armor with its modded kinetic shields or a standard armor as we meet them in the ME2 timeframe with their inherent kinetic shields?

Cause you know... Weapons aren't the only thing that changed, and better shields require better weapons to punch through. I can easy imagine a standard issue assault rifle from ME1 feeling like a peashooter against shields from ME2. Doesn't matter how many peas in a row you can shoot off against a brick wall, the wall isn't gonna budge.

And for your info, they never went away from ammo in the lore. The game just didn't want to bother with numbers of around 4k per clip in ME1.

From the sounds of it, you more have a beef in general with ME2 being a different game than ME1. From the sounds of it, you wanted an expansion pack instead of a sequel. I do not doubt there are going to be more game changes in ME2, and most likely we will again have a chorus claiming 'the old way' was better. Because that's just how people are.

[Gleym]

Mesina2 wrote...

Gleym wrote...

Shotokanguy wrote...

Gameplay is important too. Let's let some things slide.

Didn't change gameplay that much for me, outside of making it more annoying. Then I altered the game to use the heat system and my gameplay vastly improved, although it was still greatly hampered by the fact that it relied still on ME2's mechanics rather than the original heat system.

Annoying?

In other words you only use "spray and pray" technique.

No, seeing as I play an Infiltrator and thus actually aim and time my shots. But thanks for assuming the worst, just because you disagree with me.

[Lotion Soronarr]

The7Sins wrote...
1. I'm not arguing if ME1's combat was more realistic. I could care less for realistic. It was however more fun and made the game a unique experience from every other damn shooter game.

ME1 system was different, but NOT better.
The novelty wears off quickly, but the bitter aftertaste (simplistic, no tactics involved, makes no sense) remains.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 01 février 2011 - 07:41 .

[Lumikki]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

The7Sins wrote...
1. I'm not arguing if ME1's combat was more realistic. I could care less for realistic. It was however more fun and made the game a unique experience from every other damn shooter game.

ME1 system was different, but NOT better.
The novelty wears off quickly, but the bitter aftertaste (simplistic, no tactics involved, makes no sense) remains.

I have to agree. I was playing infiltrator in ME1 mostly and the weapon system was not that fun at all.

I mean ME1 combat system did the job, but it wasn't really that fun. It was too much gear based combat, where only thing what really matter was how good you weapon and armor was. Because heavy defence system, You could go open and and just blast others away with pistol. Also the skill system did affect TPS side negative ways, what did not make it better. Best example was how bad sniper rifle was in lower levels or how pistol changed from pistol to machine gun. Then there was also how limited the weapon system was, not able to shoot different body parts as location damage. In simple way sayed, it maybe unique, but it wasn't good for TPS. It reminded be about simple RPG combat and only different was you could start shooting target before selecting it.

Modifié par Lumikki, 01 février 2011 - 08:03 .

[ifander]

Beating a dead horse anyone? Same old arguments over and over again, I can understand how people might get annoyed (myself included).



I don't see how this warrants yet another thread with pretty much the same, uh, "issue". Unless you have something unique to add you should just reuse an old thread. Common sense really.

[The7Sins]

Look if the combat system from ME1 had been like ME2's I would be saying everything is great like y'all. But ME1's combat system was in fact different. Bioware has forgotten there roots in the Mass Effect games they have made things worse and have made me lose a lot of my love for the series for other things in ME2 in addition to there combat. Had Bioware wanted to go this route in ME2 they should have done the same in ME1. I as y'all can tell like games to stay relatively the same in combat from game to game. It is not necessarily the way the combat is handled in 2 I dislike it is how it was implemented after 1 had a different and as far as I can tell superior combat system. ME2 screws up the lore and technology of the games and makes Biotics a complete joke. To bad ME1 wasn't made with 2's combat system or ME2 with 1's combat as had both games been the same everything would still have a unique feel and not feel like a slap in the face to me and everyone that fell in love with the first game in the series.

[TheBlackBaron]

The7Sins wrote...
To bad ME1 wasn't made with 2's combat system or ME2 with 1's combat as had both games been the same everything would still have a unique feel and not feel like a slap in the face to me and everyone that fell in love with the first game in the series.

I played ME1 for a little bit the other day, actually. 

Of all the things to fall in love with it over, the combat system is dead last in consideration. 

[Pimin86]

18 bullets for my awesome pistol?

but 600 for my lame submachine gun?

more annoying than fun imo.

[Severyx]

Agreed, some of the weapons were SEVERELY limited in their shot capacity (I never used the carnifex for this reason), which caused an unnecessarily steep downward curb in long-term usefulness on higher difficulties.



Thermal clips were not, however, a retconn. It was explained in the codex. Geth technology gathered from the attack on the citadel was analyzed and thermal clips were reverse engineered. The reasons for such a technology make sense, even if the execution was a tad off (I favor a hybrid system). Get over it.



Good lord, this topic is as pointless as it is old. There are more important things to cry about, since you people seem so intent on doing so.

[Inquisitor Recon]

I liked the change to thermal clips. Neither of the weapon systems made much sense to me anyway (limitless ammo block inside the weapon?) but I feel it improves gameplay.

[The7Sins]

Thermal clips were not, however, a retconn. It was explained in the codex. Geth technology gathered from the attack on the citadel was analyzed and thermal clips were reverse engineered. The reasons for such a technology make sense, even if the execution was a tad off (I favor a hybrid system). Get over it.

Good lord, this topic is as pointless as it is old. There are more important things to cry about, since you people seem so intent on doing so.

It was a half assed attempt to explain why they implemented this into the game. Still makes this a damn retcon as keep in mind people 2 years ago people in the Mass Effect verse could fire guns indefinetily without running out of ammo or overheating if modded properly (or @ least millions of times before running out of ammo so for gameplay mechanics and purposes it effectively makes it indefinite) And even if they did overheat it took only a couple seconds to cool down.

Edit: I prefer a hybrid system to. Would be nice to have the guns work like they did in ME2 until you ran out of clips in which point it would revert to ME1 style guns until you got more clips. That would be awesome and take away a good bit of why I dislike ME2. To bad Bioware did not have the foresight to go this route with the combat.

Modifié par The7Sins, 02 février 2011 - 01:54 .

[The7Sins]

Edit double post. Sorry.

Modifié par The7Sins, 02 février 2011 - 01:52 .

[Praetor Knight]

I like how ME2 Combat works with Thermal Clips, and it seems to me, the biggest issue is having to run around for more Thermal Clips or find Power Cells and Armories being the only ways for Shepard to refill the weapons.

And, I too would prefer that Shep carries extra Thermal Clips on the armor (not how the Off-Hand Ammo Pack works though), that can be used to refill the weapons in a fight since Shep is an N7 trained Marine after all.

Here's one way it could work in game, keep the weapons balanced as is, and fit with the Lore:

So to start, have a second finite Power that is universal to all classes. It would work similar to Unity, allowing Shepard to restore the spare Thermal Capacity of the weapons during a fight.

The Skill could be called something simple like Speedload.

So Shep would be able to have this skill available with three uses, and the Power could be upgraded to maybe five or more uses (similar to how Unity gets upgraded).

This skill would refill the weapons and have a 6 second cool down (or longer) per use, in the Global Cooldown system.
Also, Thermal Clip pickups would still be able to refill weapons as in ME2, as well as refill this skill, since the power represents Thermal Clips carried on Shepard's Armor.

But the player can also then be able to manually restore the weapons during a fight instead of being forced to scavenge for clips during and after a fight and ME2 combat should not chage that much with such a power.

Thoughts?

[TheBlackBaron]

The7Sins wrote...
It was a half assed attempt to explain why they implemented this into the game. Still makes this a damn retcon as keep in mind people 2 years ago people in the Mass Effect verse could fire guns indefinetily without running out of ammo or overheating if modded properly (or @ least millions of times before running out of ammo so for gameplay mechanics and purposes it effectively makes it indefinite) And even if they did overheat it took only a couple seconds to cool down.

*sigh*

It's really annoying how people can't seem to grasp how lore-wise the numbers are just an abstraction of heat management (even if the mechanics are identical to ammo in other TPSs). The ammo is a tactically unlimited block of metal, same as it has always been. 

And, from a lore perspective, do you think that it is realistic at all for ANY weapon that is essentially a micro-scaled rapid-fire railgun to be capable of firing infinitely with no regard to heat buildup?

And is it really that hard to grasp how being able to cool down in one second as opposed to six is an improvement over the old system? 

Jesus, you'd think that the people whining so much about how "lore-breaking" the thermal clip system is would actually take the time to read and understand it. 

[The7Sins]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

The7Sins wrote...
It was a half assed attempt to explain why they implemented this into the game. Still makes this a damn retcon as keep in mind people 2 years ago people in the Mass Effect verse could fire guns indefinetily without running out of ammo or overheating if modded properly (or @ least millions of times before running out of ammo so for gameplay mechanics and purposes it effectively makes it indefinite) And even if they did overheat it took only a couple seconds to cool down.

*sigh*

It's really annoying how people can't seem to grasp how lore-wise the numbers are just an abstraction of heat management (even if the mechanics are identical to ammo in other TPSs). The ammo is a tactically unlimited block of metal, same as it has always been. 

And, from a lore perspective, do you think that it is realistic at all for ANY weapon that is essentially a micro-scaled rapid-fire railgun to be capable of firing infinitely with no regard to heat buildup?

And is it really that hard to grasp how being able to cool down in one second as opposed to six is an improvement over the old system? 

Jesus, you'd think that the people whining so much about how "lore-breaking" the thermal clip system is would actually take the time to read and understand it. 

Yes I know it is meant to be how much heat the weapon can take on as opposed to actual ammo. As such I call it ammo as it acts the same for gameplay mechanics. However it is not an improvement but a deprovement as before you could cooldown the gun indefinetily only reloading once per 10 years or whatever to replace the metal block. And if the gun was modded correctly could be fired near indefinetily. Now however the guns will eventually run out of sinks and be unable to nbe fired which makes no sense as before you would never run out of damn sinks and never had to worry about overheating. And if the guns did overheat in ME1 it cooled down pretty quickly anyway. So basically everything in ME2 is a backwards step in technology and the way it was implemented and explained into the game makes it an obvious retcon. This is in addition to the fact it is unbelieveable that every damned merc or whatever has clips fall out of the re guns that are not only still usable but fit into whatever gun Shepard has regardless of what gun said merc, mech of whatever was using.  And yes I did read the damn system in the codex and know how it works.

Also see my above post I could care less if this game is realistic seeing as there are plenty of other unbelieveable things in it. I would however like the lore to be consistent between games therefore keep the games having a unique experience. Not retcon everything in the 2nd installment of the trillogy by making everything downgrade in technology and making it so we can not longer use 1 gun for everything if so desired. And as said had Bioware made ME1 like ME2 I'd have no damn problem with this as the lore would not have been broken and this not be a technology downgrade and retcon introduced halfway through the trilogy. It would have instead been how thing always had been. To bad Bioware lacked the foresight to do this and was to lazy to implement something like a hybrid system as mentioned in my last post which could be argued as a true technology improvement.

[Mecha Tengu]

ME1 was so trippy, pressing "R" did not allow me to reload, but instead I threw a grenade. Ach!



Mass effect 2 felt much more like a shooter. I could go rambo and then press R. More action based, fast paced and fun.



Note the thermal clips are not the actual ammunition themselves. It's just a form of pseudo-reloading that streamlines the game into more of a shooter.

[TheBlackBaron]

The7Sins wrote...
Yes I know it is meant to be how much heat the weapon can take on as opposed to actual ammo. As such I call it ammo as it acts the same for gameplay mechanics. However it is not an improvement but a deprovement as before you could cooldown the gun indefinetily only reloading once per 10 years or whatever to replace the metal block.

Once per ten years? Are you for real? Wrex was able to blow through his entire supply in a week while hunting Aleena. 

The blocks provide enough ammunition to make it non-relevant in an average engagement, the sort Shepard usually engages in, and it is strongly implied the blocks are swapped out after every mission on the Normandy.

And if the gun was modded correctly could be fired near indefinetily.

Again, as I've continually attempted to stress throughout this thread, you cannot take everything in the game literally. Never confuse game mechanics with lore. 

Now however the guns will eventually run out of sinks and be unable to nbe fired which makes no sense as before you would never run out of damn sinks and never had to worry about overheating. And if the guns did overheat in ME1 it cooled down pretty quickly anyway. So basically everything in ME2 is a backwards step in technology and the way it was implemented and explained into the game makes it an obvious retcon.

You do realize that, unless you're intentionally trying to miss the target or are just really bad at the game, it's nigh-impossible to actually run out of the thermal clips? Do you hear very often about soldiers in real life running out of ammo for their weapons? 

And before, you DID have to worry about overheating. What the **** do you think that was when you fired for several seconds straight and then couldn't for several seconds more? The whole point of the thermal clip system is that you DON'T worry about overheating, because you can instantly cool it back down by ejecting the old sink and injecting a new one. 

What is so damn hard to grasp about that? 

This is in addition to the fact it is unbelieveable that every damned merc or whatever has clips fall out of the re guns that are not only still usable but fit into whatever gun Shepard has regardless of what gun said merc, mech of whatever was using.  And yes I did read the damn system in the codex and know how it works.

Obviously not, since you would have read that the clips are designed to universally fit any weapon fitted to use them. 

Also see my above post I could care less if this game is realistic seeing as there are plenty of other unbelieveable things in it. I would however like the lore to be consistent between games therefore keep the games having a unique experience. Not retcon everything in the 2nd installment of the trillogy by making everything downgrade in technology and making it so we can not longer use 1 gun for everything if so desired. And as said had Bioware made ME1 like ME2 I'd have no damn problem with this as the lore would not have been broken and this not be a technology downgrade and retcon introduced halfway through the trilogy. It would have instead been how thing always had been. To bad Bioware lacked the foresight to do this and was to lazy to implement something like a hybrid system as mentioned in my last post which could be argued as a true technology improvement.

It is consistent lore. Arms manufacturers developed a system that was superior to the old system of doing things. They implemented it. Or do you think technology in a universe must be stagnant for the lore to stay consistent? 

Yes, I agree, it is a bit odd that all the weapons Shepard finds are retrofitted for thermal clips, and it is inconsistent that the weapons in Jacob's loyalty use them. LEARN TO RECOGNIZE WHEN THE LORE WAS NOT PRECISELY FOLLOWED 100% FOR THE SAKE OF SUPERIOR GAMEPLAY. 

Modifié par TheBlackBaron, 02 février 2011 - 02:38 .

[Destructo-Bot]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

The only thing I question is why the crew of the MSV Hugo Gernsback has thermal clip weapons when their ship went down and became lost ten years before the events of ME2. 

Excellent 'fridge logic' moment. 

Another one of those "Gameplay and Story Segregations" moment. People already complain about how "limiting" the thermal clip system is (despite in practice it being very difficult to run out of them), they'd have thrown a holy **** fit if you had to beat that entire mission with only what you carry at the start, plus whatever powers you bring.

Come to think of it, that sounds like a pretty cool change of pace mission. 

I like the "thermal clip fairies" myself. The ones that put new thermal clips in the same spot as the one you picked up a minute ago. So there is regenerating ammo... it just doesn't regenerate in your gun. It regenerates on the table you aren't currently looking at.

Modifié par Destructo-Bot, 02 février 2011 - 02:48 .

[Glorious_Leader]

ifander wrote...

Beating a dead horse anyone? Same old arguments over and over again, I can understand how people might get annoyed (myself included).

I don't see how this warrants yet another thread with pretty much the same, uh, "issue". Unless you have something unique to add you should just reuse an old thread. Common sense really.

You people are the ones that keep reviving it.  It's beyond my power now.

[TheBlackBaron]

Glorious_Leader wrote...
You people are the ones that keep reviving it.  It's beyond my power now.

Truth be told, I'm just kind of waiting for it to die and drop several pages down while working on a proposal to refine the system, which I shall then nefariously post in a brand-new thread.