196 réponses à ce sujet

[Veen130]

People who don't like new thermal clips =

Modifié par Veen130, 03 février 2011 - 05:48 .

[Glaumr]

Veen130 wrote...

People who don't like new thermal clips =

People who like thermal clips =

Oh look, I can make misguided assumptive accusations because I disagree with peoples' views too.

Modifié par Glaumr, 03 février 2011 - 08:14 .

[Veen130]

lol, well played sir. Sorry if my comment offended you, it wasn't meant 2 do that. Just trying 2 have a laugh.

[SalsaDMA]

Goofy McCoy wrote...

Actual... Scientific... Research...

Do you possibly mean the FICTION that is dictating that thermal clip technology is BETTAR, the shields are BETTAR, etc? As I already agreed, the fiction is adjusted to suit the gameplay tweak, however inconsistently implemented.

No. I mean actual research done today and done in the past. But ofc, you would have had to actually bother read the stuff people wrote to figure that out I guess.

One guy already showed that the US army had done research in the past that gave results that showed correlating data from WW2 (This is the past, in case you are missing it) with actual combat data regarding what gave better results. You have present day research in various fields specifically on designing discardable heatsinks for systems, because it produces better results in practical applications than having to wait for things to cool down.

There's an entire web out there where you can actually search for this kind of info if you even wanted to read about some of it. But as chances are, I have a feeling you are more here to just keep repeating yourself with your own madeup mind, instead of bothering to verify by doing some research on the subject.

[Lotion Soronarr]

The7Sins wrote...
In your opinion they improved and upgraded the combat system. Making a system that makes it so you can run out of ammo and therefore have to stop using your best gun where before either through upgrades or something called smart combat you could fire forever (or until someone used Sabatage on you) and made Biotics useless due to no longer being able to work on targets with shields and even more unbelievable having armor stop them in addition Global Cooldown also makes Biotics lame and near useless.

Its amazing how futuristic guns of 2 years ago are so inferior to guns that are reminicent of 21st century guns and how usually not being able to use ones powers makes a game better. Such a great game and combat experience this is and glad Bioware "improved" it all. (end sarcasm)

I the retcon sez ME2 guns are superior, they are. Gamplay balance from ME1 doesnt' count anymore. IT is invalid.

When you play ME1, it may take 2-3 seconds for the gun to cool off. If they say that it actually takes 10...or 20 seconds...hekc, several minutes for it to cool off. Then it does...

Again, gamplay and lore are two different things.

I do agree wiht you that weapon adons from ME1 are an awesome idea nad I want them back.
I also agree that global cooldown is a "meh" idea.

But heat sinks make more sense within the universe and provide a more tactical fighting experience.

[The7Sins]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

The7Sins wrote...
In your opinion they improved and upgraded the combat system. Making a system that makes it so you can run out of ammo and therefore have to stop using your best gun where before either through upgrades or something called smart combat you could fire forever (or until someone used Sabatage on you) and made Biotics useless due to no longer being able to work on targets with shields and even more unbelievable having armor stop them in addition Global Cooldown also makes Biotics lame and near useless.

Its amazing how futuristic guns of 2 years ago are so inferior to guns that are reminicent of 21st century guns and how usually not being able to use ones powers makes a game better. Such a great game and combat experience this is and glad Bioware "improved" it all. (end sarcasm)

I the retcon sez ME2 guns are superior, they are. Gamplay balance from ME1 doesnt' count anymore. IT is invalid.

When you play ME1, it may take 2-3 seconds for the gun to cool off. If they say that it actually takes 10...or 20 seconds...hekc, several minutes for it to cool off. Then it does...

Again, gamplay and lore are two different things.

I do agree wiht you that weapon adons from ME1 are an awesome idea nad I want them back.
I also agree that global cooldown is a "meh" idea.

But heat sinks make more sense within the universe and provide a more tactical fighting experience.

Except by pure scientific fact that the guy that can no longer fire his gun due to being out of thermal clips will lose to the guy that can fire INDEFINETILY by either modding the gun to do so or by fireing in bursts aka smart gameplay. And before people say that is worse half the guns in ME2 force you to fire in bursts anyway either as a function of the gun or to keep accuracy ala the Revanent. It is sad how people believe anything Bioware says when they say these guns are an improvement when logic says they clearly are not and the Codex entry was there shoddy attempt to make people think it was not a retcon. Codex entry or not trhey still are a retcon and downgrade in technology.
No they do not make much sence for the universe since in ME1 you could fire indefinetily via the futuristic tech of the guns. Now the guns have been downgraded to something reminicent of 21st centruy guns. That is not a good thing. This game should not be trying to make its combat system like generic shooters when it had its own system established in ME1 that made this a unique game and gave the Mass Effect universe a great feel and the guns of ME1 make more sence for the universe. To make a more tactical game they should not have changed around the guns or added global cooldown. Instead they should have ramped up the damage everything can inflict on you so much that you have to use cover or die just like we already have in ME2. Maybe make a few enemies that can kill you in 1 hit and\\or guve enemies more health and protection as well (while alloowing Biotics to work on shileds and armor) and of course have better AI so they use cover more effectively. That would make the game more tactical without fucing up the lore of the games, without making combat a generic piece of **** reminicent of other shooters.
Its sad how many people have accepted the lie of these being an improvement when clearly they are not either for being to muchin love with generic shooter games (which Mass Effect should never become) or to much in love with Bioware and therefroe they belive everything they say as fact. Half these people probably are the same lot that think the game had a good plot and almost no plot holes when clearly it has a bad plot and plot holes a plenty.

Glad to see you @ least agree with me on the adons of the weapons and global cooldown.

[Goofy McCoy]

Salsa, I'm glad you say you've read this correlating data from the 40's that supports a specific type of mechanism in a weapon platform that is pure fiction, based on technology that isn't yet viable on a large scale (despite what Michael Bay tried to convince you of in Transformers).



Basically, there is a saying on wikipedia that applies here, it goes:

[citation needed]



There may be a dozen scientific papers about why Darth Vader is better than Chuck Norris, but if I was going to assert them as proof, it'd be my perrogative to at least link them.

[Mourthi]

We're still not done with this?

[Glorious_Leader]

JKoopman wrote...

kregano wrote...

WarlordDavian wrote...

Okay, I just made an account today and I've only been playing mass effect 2 for a week.  But from what I've heard, the old system used to be infinite ammo until it overheats(if continuous fire) and thermal clips are used to keep them from overheating.  So If i ran out of thermal clips, shouldn't I theoretically be able to keep firing until the weapon overheats and then wait for it to cool down or find other thermal clips?  

No, because then you'd slag the delicate electronic components necessary for the gun to operate as designed.

It didn't seem to slag the internal electronics in ME1 when weapons overheated. Why should it in ME2?

It can be assumed that each weapon has a built-in failsafe that prevents it from opperating once internal temperatures reached a certain threshold, hence the OVERHEAT warning and the weapon being rendered inopperable until it had cooled.

I hear the guns Blue Screen of Death when they get to a certain temp.

[Goofy McCoy]

@glorious_leader

I heard when they transferred them to the new system, they tried to hold it back for just the military, but somebody got a hold of it and hacked the security of the whole thing, which is how even people stranded for years managed to get a hold of the new weapons.

[Zurcior]

@The7Sins...



You are wrong.

[kregano]

The7Sins wrote...
Except by pure scientific fact that the guy that can no longer fire his gun due to being out of thermal clips will lose to the guy that can fire INDEFINETILY by either modding the gun to do so or by fireing in bursts aka smart gameplay. And before people say that is worse half the guns in ME2 force you to fire in bursts anyway either as a function of the gun or to keep accuracy ala the Revanent. It is sad how people believe anything Bioware says when they say these guns are an improvement when logic says they clearly are not and the Codex entry was there shoddy attempt to make people think it was not a retcon. Codex entry or not trhey still are a retcon and downgrade in technology.
No they do not make much sence for the universe since in ME1 you could fire indefinetily via the futuristic tech of the guns. Now the guns have been downgraded to something reminicent of 21st centruy guns. That is not a good thing. This game should not be trying to make its combat system like generic shooters when it had its own system established in ME1 that made this a unique game and gave the Mass Effect universe a great feel and the guns of ME1 make more sence for the universe. To make a more tactical game they should not have changed around the guns or added global cooldown. Instead they should have ramped up the damage everything can inflict on you so much that you have to use cover or die just like we already have in ME2. Maybe make a few enemies that can kill you in 1 hit and\\\\or guve enemies more health and protection as well (while alloowing Biotics to work on shileds and armor) and of course have better AI so they use cover more effectively. That would make the game more tactical without fucing up the lore of the games, without making combat a generic piece of **** reminicent of other shooters.
Its sad how many people have accepted the lie of these being an improvement when clearly they are not either for being to muchin love with generic shooter games (which Mass Effect should never become) or to much in love with Bioware and therefroe they belive everything they say as fact. Half these people probably are the same lot that think the game had a good plot and almost no plot holes when clearly it has a bad plot and plot holes a plenty.

You do realize that guns that can fire without ever heating up are physically impossible, right? That's a gameplay mechanic that has absolutely no relation to reality.

[Glorious_Leader]

kregano wrote...

The7Sins wrote...
Except by pure scientific fact that the guy that can no longer fire his gun due to being out of thermal clips will lose to the guy that can fire INDEFINETILY by either modding the gun to do so or by fireing in bursts aka smart gameplay. And before people say that is worse half the guns in ME2 force you to fire in bursts anyway either as a function of the gun or to keep accuracy ala the Revanent. It is sad how people believe anything Bioware says when they say these guns are an improvement when logic says they clearly are not and the Codex entry was there shoddy attempt to make people think it was not a retcon. Codex entry or not trhey still are a retcon and downgrade in technology.
No they do not make much sence for the universe since in ME1 you could fire indefinetily via the futuristic tech of the guns. Now the guns have been downgraded to something reminicent of 21st centruy guns. That is not a good thing. This game should not be trying to make its combat system like generic shooters when it had its own system established in ME1 that made this a unique game and gave the Mass Effect universe a great feel and the guns of ME1 make more sence for the universe. To make a more tactical game they should not have changed around the guns or added global cooldown. Instead they should have ramped up the damage everything can inflict on you so much that you have to use cover or die just like we already have in ME2. Maybe make a few enemies that can kill you in 1 hit and\\\\\\\\or guve enemies more health and protection as well (while alloowing Biotics to work on shileds and armor) and of course have better AI so they use cover more effectively. That would make the game more tactical without fucing up the lore of the games, without making combat a generic piece of **** reminicent of other shooters.
Its sad how many people have accepted the lie of these being an improvement when clearly they are not either for being to muchin love with generic shooter games (which Mass Effect should never become) or to much in love with Bioware and therefroe they belive everything they say as fact. Half these people probably are the same lot that think the game had a good plot and almost no plot holes when clearly it has a bad plot and plot holes a plenty.

You do realize that guns that can fire without ever heating up are physically impossible, right? That's a gameplay mechanic that has absolutely no relation to reality.

I don't think he ever stated it was realistic.  But then again, his post wasn't very organized.  I may have missed it.

Also, Mass Effect has an awesome storyline.  Or at least the first did.  The second was kind of "meh", as you're essentially just roaming about picking people up for the whole game, while the first gave you all your team in the beginning and provided actual storyline development.

[General9999]

Because in mass effect technology goes backwards! thats the explanation of thermal clips in the mass effect you will probably use m16 or ak 47

[Zurcior]

General9999 wrote...

Because in mass effect technology goes backwards! thats the explanation of thermal clips in the mass effect you will probably use m16 or ak 47

 How is it backwards? Show your work.

[General9999]

in me 1 there was no such thing as thermal clips weapons overheat but dont go out of ammo in me 2 if you are out ammo you cant shoot thats your explanation

[JerkyJohnny14]

I got used to the clip idea. I didn't like it at first but I learned to like it actually because it created a challenge in the ME universe. In ME 1 one could fire infinitely and dominate the battlefield with mods like frictionless materials. But ME2 that idea was immediately scrapped and clips were placed in. That presented the task of ammunition management and since I was a soldier that was my lifeline it gave me an actual challenge. Once though you learn conservation then you can easily dominate the field once again. I ended up beating the game 5 times over on insanity without any effort whatsoever.

[Glorious_Leader]

Zurcior wrote...

General9999 wrote...

Because in mass effect technology goes backwards! thats the explanation of thermal clips in the mass effect you will probably use m16 or ak 47

 How is it backwards? Show your work.

Expendable magazines are a piece technology we currently use.  Bioware introduced this contemporary technology into a futuristic setting, creating a feeling of technological retrogression.

[General9999]

overheat was more realistic they wanted me 2 make pure shooters

[JerkyJohnny14]

Glorious_Leader wrote...

Zurcior wrote...

General9999 wrote...

Because in mass effect technology goes backwards! thats the explanation of thermal clips in the mass effect you will probably use m16 or ak 47

 How is it backwards? Show your work.

Expendable magazines are a piece technology we currently use.  Bioware introduced this contemporary technology into a futuristic setting, creating a feeling of technological retrogression.

Really? I don't view it that way. Even wrex in ME1 stated he had depleted his store of ammunition when he was after that commando on the space station. Showing that ammunition management was present in the ME1 universe. Also how is it possible that a gun magically generates bullets for firing? The thermal clips I think couldn't be added to the first game because bioware ran out of time for that addition.

[JerkyJohnny14]

I believe the clips still fit the atmosphere of mass effect just fine

[General9999]

so in me2 zaeed says that he his old rifle shooted without stopping until it was broken or something like that cant remember just go to zaeed and press that old rifle he will tell that story

[Glorious_Leader]

JerkyJohnny14 wrote...

Glorious_Leader wrote...

Zurcior wrote...

General9999 wrote...

Because in mass effect technology goes backwards! thats the explanation of thermal clips in the mass effect you will probably use m16 or ak 47

 How is it backwards? Show your work.

Expendable magazines are a piece technology we currently use.  Bioware introduced this contemporary technology into a futuristic setting, creating a feeling of technological retrogression.

Really? I don't view it that way. Even wrex in ME1 stated he had depleted his store of ammunition when he was after that commando on the space station. Showing that ammunition management was present in the ME1 universe. Also how is it possible that a gun magically generates bullets for firing? The thermal clips I think couldn't be added to the first game because bioware ran out of time for that addition.

The codex in Mass Effect 1 explains that each gun has a block of metal inside of it.  Since mass accelerators can make a small projectile do a sizeable amount of damage, all that's needed is a shaving from the block of metal.  A computer inside the gun analyzes the environment, distance of the shot, and other factors to decide how big of a shaving it should take.  This is all done in nanoseconds, after which the gun alters the mass of the tiny metal shaving and sends it flying at high velocity.  This is what the guns fire in both Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2.

The thermal clips do not contain bullets.  They are just disposable heatsinks.  The idea is that excess heat is routed to the thermal clip.  When the clip can't take any more heat, it's discharged and replaced with a new one.  However, in practice, this is just like loading mags in any other game.

[JerkyJohnny14]

Glorious_Leader wrote...

JerkyJohnny14 wrote...

Glorious_Leader wrote...

Zurcior wrote...

General9999 wrote...

Because in mass effect technology goes backwards! thats the explanation of thermal clips in the mass effect you will probably use m16 or ak 47

 How is it backwards? Show your work.

Expendable magazines are a piece technology we currently use.  Bioware introduced this contemporary technology into a futuristic setting, creating a feeling of technological retrogression.

Really? I don't view it that way. Even wrex in ME1 stated he had depleted his store of ammunition when he was after that commando on the space station. Showing that ammunition management was present in the ME1 universe. Also how is it possible that a gun magically generates bullets for firing? The thermal clips I think couldn't be added to the first game because bioware ran out of time for that addition.

The codex in Mass Effect 1 explains that each gun has a block of metal inside of it.  Since mass accelerators can make a small projectile do a sizeable amount of damage, all that's needed is a shaving from the block of metal.  A computer inside the gun analyzes the environment, distance of the shot, and other factors to decide how big of a shaving it should take.  This is all done in nanoseconds, after which the gun alters the mass of the tiny metal shaving and sends it flying at high velocity.  This is what the guns fire in both Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2.

The thermal clips do not contain bullets.  They are just disposable heatsinks.  The idea is that excess heat is routed to the thermal clip.  When the clip can't take any more heat, it's discharged and replaced with a new one.  However, in practice, this is just like loading mags in any other game.

Ah, I see your point. So the thermal clips don't conatin amunition, O.K. Well that makes sense. Anyhow I still think the thermal clip addition was necessary because players could just walk through the first game without a sweat no matter the difficulty. At first I did feel like some originallity was lost. Like when the MAKO was removed and the environment stripped down to essentially a linear line of battle, im still not over that. But, if you have skills its easy to get used to the new style of shooter. Its the same idea: charge headlong into battle firing, but this time not infinitly.

[Zurcior]

General9999 wrote...

in me 1 there was no such thing as thermal clips weapons overheat but dont go out of ammo in me 2 if you are out ammo you cant shoot thats your explanation

1) Use punctuations, please.

2) You seem to be under the impression that the thermal clips contain actual bullets. This is not true. Thermal clips contain heat sinks that absorb the heat produced by the gun like in ME1. But instead of waiting for the gun to cool down, you just pop the heat sink in less than a second and continue firing your gun.