73 réponses à ce sujet

[Kim Shepard]

I think a rebuilt Saren would still have his memories. Technically, we have no way of knowing for sure, so it comes down to "whatever the writers want to happen will happen."

My guess for Evolution is that the actions of Saren/his brother/his team will lead to Eva's death, and the actions of TIM/his team will lead to the death of Saren's brother. Even if they didn't kill off each other's loved ones personally, I expect a situation that they can both blame each other for.

[Splinter Cell 108]

He's a person who suffered too much and that's probably why he was so aggressive. First he lost his brother in the first contact war making him hate humanity. The loss of his brother probably also affected him way more than just making him ruthless, he's probably the way he is because he never got over his brother. In fact the reason why he wanted to find Sovereign at first was to put humanity in its place. However after he found Sovereign his purpose changed and instead wanted to save people. It was too late though he was indoctrinated and the only way to stop it was by killing himself.

[Kim Shepard]

I think Saren being ruthless was partly influenced by his military training too. Turians are more ruthless in general - they use the method of "total war," and a few of the Cerberus news articles have shown that too. Losing his brother would definitely be another part of the influence. He does seem more ruthless in Revelation, a few years after his brother's death, than he does in ME1.

The poor guy has suffered a lot. I thought about him the whole time I was reading those indoctrination scenes in Retribution. Not sure if it was exactly the same for Saren, being awake during it, but it was incredibly painful. And then there's the geth arm. And the implants he had before Sovereign, which I'm guessing might be from a battle injury. And now there's the possibility that he actually saw his brother die.

[tonnactus]

rodgerage wrote...

Yeah when i told him to kill himself i had a totally different opinoin of him but i didn't like how he dog Anderson

Anderson was an idiot who only cared about kahlee sanders instead of the main mission.Its actually good that he didnt became a spectre.

[jamesp81]

Good motives and intentions, very bad methods which eventually destroyed him.

[Ghost Warrior]

I always liked Saren. "Is submission not preferable to extinction?"

I think I would've done the same thing he did.He is ruthless,especially in books,but that's what Spectre should be like,he brings difficult decisions that most people couldn't.One of best characters in ME universe

[Splinter Cell 108]

Ghost Warrior wrote...

I always liked Saren. "Is submission not preferable to extinction?"
I think I would've done the same thing he did.He is ruthless,especially in books,but that's what Spectre should be like,he brings difficult decisions that most people couldn't.One of best characters in ME universe

Yeah he makes those decisions but like Captain Anderson said, he doesn't even look for another way. Instead he just goes the easy way, costing people's lives in the process but I wonder if he had always been that way or if he became that way after his brother died. 

[Kim Shepard]

I think the turian military's methods would be considered ruthless, and Saren just takes it one step further without going over the line. The way I see it, he's not choosing the easy way, just the "safe" way. A lot of his decisions seem to involve a "kill them, it's the only way to be sure" mindset, similar to the turians' concept of total war, and choosing submission over extinction was also the "safe" choice.

[Ice Cold J]

Tragic hero. Could've been Shepard if he'd exposed Sovereign and started the fight to stop him.

However, there's still the issue of his racism towards humans, so... anti-hero?

In the end, I got him to redeem himself by sacrificing himself so I could stop Sovereign. Too bad Sovereign took control of his body and tried to wipe me out.

[Kim Shepard]

Renegade Shepard can be even more racist than Saren, actually. Saren only hates humans, as far as we know. Renegade Shepard can hate every species except humans. I have Shepards who are like Saren - they hate the species who killed members of their family (in their case, batarians).

I always persuade him in the end too. The Paragon persuade is my favorite, I've done a mix of both.

[Undertone]

The hell with the stupid books/comics. Anything outside ME games is not cannon to me.



Saren is the best character in the entire ME series. A character that is real, with sufficient motivations. Moreover a personal adversary and challenge to Shepard, the wall the first human Spectre has to overcome to prove to himself and the galaxy, that humanity is ready to have one of their own in such position. That Saren is rogue is inconsequential.



Saren is second Turian we meet in the game and gives a long-lasting perception. In a way if it isn't for him my opinion on the Turian race would have been different. His motivations for hating humanity are real, understandable and provide another facet on human-turian relationships. He provides an example of what Shepard could have become.



I believe ultimately they could have become friends (A renegade Shepard, mind you) and some sort of anti-hero camaraderie happening between them.



Saren, like Garrus are believable characters - realists, similar to Renegade Shep. And so much better then all the rest of the idealist fools/preachers.



Also Anderson is a tool.

[eshrafel]

Good post Undertone. I think I agree with pretty much everything you say there. He is a character with one of the most believable and interesting roles in the game; not flat, not one-dimensional, not a trivial black-or-white, forgettable throw-away villain. I can't see the Reapers being turned around into being such a respectable and detailed opponent; in fact I don't really see them as an 'opponent' - they just *are*, and as such, have to be stopped.



I have not read the comics, I guess I don't intend to from what I've heard people saying. I'm sure Kim will of course... Must...have...more....Saren...!



I also haven't been able to *not* persuade Saren at the end of ME1 as of yet. I really gasped the first time that happened at the end of ME1. I guess that means I really felt something about it, and I can't remember many games to do that.

[Kim Shepard]

I agree. I think Saren is the best character in the Mass Effect universe. All of my favorites are Renegades/Renegons. If only Saren and Shepard could have been friends. I have Shepards who would get along very well with him. Even in ME1, it didn't sound like Saren hated Shepard in the end. If he truly hated Shepard, he wouldn't have asked Shepard to join him, he wouldn't have bothered to explain himself, he wouldn't have listened when Shepard tried to persuade him, and he wouldn't have thanked Shepard for it. When Shepard made it to Virmire, he sounded glad that Shepard showed up. When he was leaving Virmire, there was even a moment where he looked back and didn't try to shoot Shepard. None of that suggests hate. More like respect, actually.

I'll never have a Shepard who doesn't persuade Saren. I won't kill off my favorite characters if there's a choice not to, and technically, the only part of the battle that is unavoidable is a battle against Saren's Sovereign-possessed body - it's not really Saren by that point. I was shocked the first time he killed himself too, and I read it on the Wiki. I knew it was going to happen and how to persuade him to it. The coversations with Saren on my first playthrough were the only ones where I responded as if I was speaking to him. For someone who always strictly roleplays a character, that's saying a lot.

I like Revelation and Evolution so far though. They kept him in character really well, and that's something I was worried about after watching the Genesis comic (which would have everyone believe that Saren just wanted to destroy the galaxy). And he's one of the best-drawn characters in Evolution too. If anyone wants to know what happened, I already have a summary of everything Saren from day one that I could post here with a big bold spoiler warning. Yeah, I spent several hours looking for both comics on day one. xD It's more Saren information!

[Sandbox47]

My opinion: Greedy turain Spectre.

[eshrafel]

Kim Shepard wrote...
If he truly hated Shepard, he wouldn't have asked Shepard to join him, he wouldn't have bothered to explain himself, he wouldn't have listened when Shepard tried to persuade him, and he wouldn't have thanked Shepard for it. When Shepard made it to Virmire, he sounded glad that Shepard showed up. 

I like Revelation and Evolution so far though. They kept him in character really well, and that's something I was worried about after watching the Genesis comic

I have sometimes wondered about that. I guess saving the galaxy is a lonely job, even for an expert turian spectre, especially when it involves a race of seemingly omnipotent unstoppable unfeeling machines. There is some common ground here in the fact Saren knows Shepard will not blindly listen to and obey the council, just like he wouldn't, and hence could potentially be an ally on such a mission. They are both extremely independent individuals. Whether Shepard was human or not was irrelevant; in the first Council meeting perhaps Saren thought Shepard was merely a tool of Anderson for petty revenge, but it rapidly became clear afterwards that it was indeed Shepard running the show, not otherwise. Through Shepard's persistence, skill, and determination he/she made it to Virmire and there's got to be some respect due in that. As such, perhaps he considers Shepard potentially useful in what he considers no less than saving all sentient life. Just because of his dislike of humans, that doesn't mean to say he's irrational about it, not to the extreme anyway. The other aspect is perhaps that he knows Shepard isn't affected by Sovereign. It gave him a reason to perhaps not only justify his actions to Shepard but to himself. Having someone else around like Shepard could potentially be a good gauge for if you are still in full control of your mental faculties - or he might think so at least. We know he was plagued by doubts. Somehow I imagine that to be the greatest danger to a being such as him who is usually full of confidence and who has in the past shown no hesitation on the path he was required to take. It's ironic and tragic that it was not truly a sudden violent event that ended Saren - as one might expect in a line of work such as his - it was the slow inner decay, Sovereign nibbling away along with his doubts.

I also think about the end sequence on Virmire too. He doesn't just casually kick Shepard off the AA tower, or shoot him/her through the head. No, he wants to deal with it personally. Does he just want to make sure, or is that another measure of respect? I can't say. If Sovereign had been in complete control then no doubt Shepard would not have gotten any chances.

Good to know they can get Saren right in the comics at least. I'll have to get a review of them sometime.

[Kim Shepard]

Yeah, I think part of the reason why Saren wanted Shepard to join him is because he's basically been studying the Reapers alone for 20 years, only allowing a small number of people to have even a fraction of the knowledge that he and Shepard both have. As far as we know, no one else understands the Reapers as well as those two (except maybe TIM), and by that point Shepard had basically proved him/herself by chasing him all the way to Virmire. I think he wanted someone else around who understood the Reaper threat, and he seemed genuinely surprised that Shepard, knowing a lot of the same things he knows, didn't come to the same conclusion of "submission is preferable to extinction."

Saren was definitely worried about having his mind fall under Sovereign's control. That could have been another reason he wanted Shepard around, and in the end, having Shepard around did make him realize what happened. Poor guy. I know some of my Shepards would worry about the same thing (indoctrination).

[Undertone]

Saren to me is perfectly reasonable and realistic. What can you do when you are the only one knowing about a threat of such magnitude and the fact that no one would believe you. Nothing except get to the rationale that submission is preferable to extinction. Like you guys pointed he was alone in that knowledge and I suspect he was glad that there was someone else to share it with him.



Saren is not a cliche villain - in that when he realized there was chance and that he was wrong, he was brave enough to do what's necessary even if it meant his death. Which proves that Saren is ultimately selfless despite the renegade ways in which he deals.



Ultimate paragons/idealist are stupid, but ultimately evil characters with no motivation are even more stupid.

[Kim Shepard]

I think Saren not telling the Council was a logical response too. He's been a Spectre for many years and would know them much better than Shepard. He would have known that they'd call him crazy if he warned them about the Reapers, and if that would make him any less trusted or respected, it would hurt his chances of saving the galaxy. Unfortunately, there aren't many people who would believe a story like that even if it's true, and he'll never find those people without making many more think he's crazy. Can't blame him for not wanting to destroy his own image and possibly lose his Spectre status for it. Nihlus might have believed him though.

[wolfennights]

I thought he was a great villain, very effective. The exact kinda of rival to Commander Shepard that ME2 was missing.

[Zcorck]

I agree. Very compelling, and loved the voice and look of the character.
Having him and Shepard on different sides yet in the same situation was a nice touch to it.
I too think that Saren not telling the council was logical or anyone else for that matter, would've probably have been hidden away or ridiculed like Matriarch Aethyta.
Basically the Council just wants results, if they even cared about the details they probably would've made Saren stop killing everyone who stands between him and his mission. Not to mention the effort they tend to put on to make everything look nice and good, kinda like the Ministry of Magic and Harry Potter before they all saw Voldemort in the flesh.
Also liked how Zaeed's mission shows the parallel between that and Revelation.

Also agree that a lack of follow-up on ME2 was a bit disappointing, considering Saren's contribution to the galactic society he kinda deserved more, or at least a tribute similar to what Shepard gave the first Normandy. Too bad that he's now become a taboo within Turian history.
Heh it'd be nicef there really would be a Lost Journals of Saren Arterius in ME3, with it displaying him discovering what Sovereign really was, his determination to fight it(thus adding a few opportunities to help Shepard stop the Reapers), and show how he became less Turian and more machine and how his mind went the other way.

It'd be kind of full-circle and poetic with Saren trying to stop them yet failed, leaving Shepard find and complete his work and restore his place and honor as a great if not one of the greatest Turians. ('cos we sure know that it ain't the Turian Councilor!)

O how a path filled with noble intentions paved the road to hell.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

rodgerage wrote...

Well the title says it all. My opinion on him was a partly good person who got corrupted.

Yeah, that's pretty much the way I wanted Saren to be made out, but after playing the game and reading up on the side stories and such, I think BW went the lazy way and made him out to be a pretty much 1-dimensional bad guy... I feel the ME mythos has suffered for it - the Reapers would've been much more frightening if they'd indoctrinated a paragon-hero-type (or even a renegade hero-type) than a total, abject villian.

[Kim Shepard]

Zcorck wrote...

Basically the Council just wants results, if they even cared about the details they probably would've made Saren stop killing everyone who stands between him and his mission. Not to mention the effort they tend to put on to make everything look nice and good, kinda like the Ministry of Magic and Harry Potter before they all saw Voldemort in the flesh.
Also liked how Zaeed's mission shows the parallel between that and Revelation.

I hadn't thought of the connection between the Council and the Ministry of Magic. It's a good comparison. Both are completely oblivious until (and even after) the truth is right in front of them.

I like the similarities Zaeed's loyalty mission has with Saren and Anderson's mission in Revelation too. In my opinion, that's one of the things that makes it so awesome. Another chance for Shepard to become more like Saren.

Heh it'd be nicef there really would be a Lost Journals of Saren Arterius in ME3, with it displaying him discovering what Sovereign really was, his determination to fight it(thus adding a few opportunities to help Shepard stop the Reapers), and show how he became less Turian and more machine and how his mind went the other way.

It'd be kind of full-circle and poetic with Saren trying to stop them yet failed, leaving Shepard find and complete his work and restore his place and honor as a great if not one of the greatest Turians. ('cos we sure know that it ain't the Turian Councilor!)

O how a path filled with noble intentions paved the road to hell.

It would be great if that happened in ME3, Shepard using Saren's old research to figure out a way to defeat the Reapers. I doubt there's anyone who knows more about the Reapers than he would. Saren studied them for 18 years at the very least. I wonder how long it took him to realize what the Reapers really are. I'm guessing a few years, enough to allow for all of the different indoctrination/mind-control research projects that he had going on by the time of ME1. And I wonder how long it took after he found out about indoctrination for him to come to the conclusion that the Reapers couldn't be defeated.

[Llama11]

It'd be very ironic if Shepard realized that he/she is probably no different to Saren in terms of the overarching goal they both have/had.

In some sense, Shepard is the human version of Saren. Trying to warn the council and being dubbed as insane and being dismissed by the council.