328 réponses à ce sujet

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Rogue Unit wrote...
If he saved at least one life then it wasn't pointless. Draining the ocean with a straw is better than doing nothing at all.

Are we allowed to compare that one life to all the lives he himself took?  Are those lives worth so much less?  All of them?  Really?

darknoon5 wrote...
The freelancers were trying to kill him! What did you expect him to do? It's like the quarians who complain about the Geth not letting themselves be murdered.

Also, Garrus had seen his team die, and hadn't slept for days, which was probably one reason for his remarks. People say stupid and mean things when their hurting, and I really wouldn't consider that a valid complaint. They were clearly trying to murder someone, and were killed in the process. And they were witless if they didn't figure out they were basically just cannon fodder.

Also, if he thought about the possible families of every freelancer he gunned down, he might have died due to distraction or breaking down.

By criminals, Garrus means thugs and mercenaries, the "strong" he talks of who abuse the weak.
The books point to the same conclusion-most people on Omega who are criminals are scum.

I never said Garrus shouldn't have protected himself... Garrus never should have caused that whole situation.
What he shouldn't have done was get so cocky and reckless about everything.  He shouldn't have called everyone he killed a reckless idiot (a point BioWare was obviously trying to make by throwing that kid in the fray in the first place).

I don't agree with your comments that he was tired and not thinking straight.  The other things he says in the game when he's well-rested coincide with that attitude.  Especially with Harkin and everyone else on his personal mission.  I understand that he was angry and wanted REVENGE!!! and all but that doesn't make his attitude acceptable to me.  His one saving grace is that he can be talked out of pulling the trigger, but even then he cops an attitude about it and says he isn't going to talk about it.

[Some Dude]

bobobo878 wrote...

jswatta wrote...

How do we kill him? I just want to punch him in the face twenty times with a two second pause inbetween each punch.  Wrex could join in too!

Reason why Garrus is a complete and utter idiot

* Indecisive, can't make up his mind (ME1) .. I hated this about him.  So many times I wanted to just pay 5000 credits to Wrex to kick the **** out of Garrus. That would of been hilarious to watch.  Then when you say goodbye to him in ME1, he sounds like a little ****. "oh oh, sorry, oh sorry.."...

* Disrespected his family (ME1)

* Disrespects law and order (ME1)

* A horrible leader

* Gets people killed

* Doesn't respect Paragon Shepard (pisses me off)

* He's just a little ****, haven't you noticed? He never stands firm in a decision, no one can respect that.

Sure he can fight, but look at his weapon of choice? A sniper rifle? Coward sits in the back picking people off.   I'd rather stick him in a second group so I never have to see his cowardly, indecisive face.

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRY4OQ9jRbSrDObSlXFAAgDCfAdxNDDPp_Gvaw84TKa0wORV22C&t=1

lol

[Rogue Unit]

adneate wrote...

Rogue Unit wrote...
No one "relevant" to Mass Effect 2's plot except Mordin. Garrus is more helpful than most because of the canon he installs on the Normandy.

That's ME2's "writing" for you it regularly fails to adequately explain anything. Garrus giving the Thanix upgrade isn't a very compelling argument for why he should be in ME2's squad, you could just of easily had someone else give it to you or have him hand over the plans in a bar.

I never said his upgrade made him relevant. I merely said his upgrade was more helpful than some of the other's. And I don't think some random person in a bar would have turain military ship canon plans ready to just hand over. And as far as I know Garrus was the only squadmate that served in the turain military.

[Malmern]

jswatta wrote...

Sure he can fight, but look at his weapon of choice? A sniper rifle? Coward sits in the back picking people off.   I'd rather stick him in a second group so I never have to see his cowardly, indecisive face.

Maybe the OP is getting sniped all the time in BF or CoD

[JamieCOTC]

Damn the spoilers ...

Garrus is Space Dirty Harry in ME1, though a younger less experienced version.  He ultimately wanted to do the right thing, but was frustrated by the system. Either by corruption or red tape, the bad guys got away.  Add to that a estranged relationship w/ his father and he's pretty much ready to pop.  Enter Paragon Shepard who lets him tag along to take down the biggest bad guy of them all.  Garrus was looking for the shortcut to victory because he was so damned frustrated at life and the system, but through action and words, Shep tells him there are no shortcuts.  Garrus's character arch helps to mold both him and Shepard as the people they will become in ME2. 

That was the hope anyway.

Enter the resurrection of Commander Shepard, the thing which rippled across the plot lines of the entire ME universe and ultimately ruined everything.  Garrus was rebooted in ME2 just as Shepard was rebooted. Tali was rebooted too, but her reboot makes a bit more sense.  Why was Garrus rebooted?  Because, Shepard could convince him to either recommit to C-Sec or try out for the Specters via paragon/renegade path.  And so, just as Shepard did not have a fixed path at the end of ME1, neither did Garrus. Enter Space Batman and a time in which the player has to do a lot of the work for the writers.  Garrus went back to C-Sec or whatever, stormed out due to the red tape, but most importantly he lost his moral compass, Shepard. So, he fell back on what he knew, kicking the snot out of the bad guys.  Shepard then comes back and once again has to lead him by the hand toward the paragon or renegade path, just like before. Yeah, his ME2 story arch is terrible, but he does something that no other character does besides Liara. He talked to Shepard.  It wasn't a Q&A w/ a walking codex, the two have a conversation in the car.  The dialogue chemistry between Garrus and Shepard (especially femShep) is one of the best in the main game, IMO.  Anyway, that's why I like Garrus. 

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Rogue Unit wrote...
I never said his upgrade made him relevant. I merely said his upgrade was more helpful than some of the other's. And I don't think some random person in a bar would have turain military ship canon plans ready to just hand over. And as far as I know Garrus was the only squadmate that served in the turain military.

He's also the only turian squadmate...
But it doesn't really matter.  The turian Thanix Cannon could just as easily have been an asari Blanix Cannon.  It's completely inconsequential to the writing other than the fact that BioWare made it a variable in the mission.

Modifié par Mystranna Kelteel, 31 janvier 2011 - 10:52 .

[Yana Montana]

I don't like Garrus either. Sue me. ;P

[adneate]

Rogue Unit wrote...
And as far as I know Garrus was the only squadmate that served in the turain military.

He's former military I doubt he'd have access to their top secret weapons programs, Miranda getting the plans through Cerberus spies would probably make more sense than Garrus getting them becase "I know some guys". That's quite a stroke of luck for Garrus, that he both knows people in the secret Turian weapons research department and this person is willing to just steal the plans for him and hand them over for free.

Bit of stretch isn't it?

[Mr.House]

The only important ME2 squadmates is Mordin and Miri, even then. After Horizon Mordin is now that important again and only at the start and during the SM is Miri important. Garrus and Tali have no relevance or importance.



Tali and Garrus would have been better as a cameo appearance like Wrex.

[ShadoX_LV]

And I hate Miranda and hope that she dies at the beginning of ME3..so?

[Jack Package]

ShadoX_LV wrote...

And I hate Miranda and hope that she dies at the beginning of ME3..so?

So go to the "I don't like Miranda" thread.

[Rogue Unit]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Rogue Unit wrote...
If he saved at least one life then it wasn't pointless. Draining the ocean with a straw is better than doing nothing at all.

Are we allowed to compare that one life to all the lives he himself took?  Are those lives worth so much less?  All of them?  Really?

I'm sure he saved more than one life by taking Omega's top three gangs. But if you feel that murders shouldn't be held accountable and should be able to continue killing as they please, by all means..

You have to remeber, Omega has no prison system, no legal system. The only way to deal with the murders were to take them out.

If an officer has to kill three terrorist to save one hostage, I feel it was justified. Their lives aren't worth less, but they need to be stopped.

The same thing could be said for Samara. She'll kill you just for being a corrupt politician.

Modifié par Rogue Unit, 31 janvier 2011 - 10:58 .

[JamieCOTC]

Garrus's character arch is terrible in ME2.  I blame it on the resurrection plot. I think one can safely blame everything wrong w/ ME2 on the resurrection plot.

[Phaedon]

adneate wrote...
Jack killed two YMIR mechs in a cutscene your point is?

She is the most powerful biotic in the world and thus deserves a place in the team as well? 
Because if we want to compare stuff like that, then Jacob, Tali, Legion and co. need to get out?

Phaedon wrote...
Apparently killing mercs is but founding and leading an army isn't. You really are trying very hard to make Garrus relevant to the ME2 plot, I commend your effort at least. Most people wouldn't go through these many twists of logic to try to explain away someone else's shoddy story telling.

You are claiming that founding the Blue Suns is relevant to the plot, great story-telling, squaddie-worthy, and you claim that you don't twist your logic. 

Phaedon wrote...
And I direct you to think about how much your choices regarding Garrus matter in ME1. Look deep down inside you you'll find the answer. Not at all.

I searched deep inside me.



I discovered my processed food.


And the thing is, that if Garrus had a personality as easy to manipulate for prolonged periods as you claim, then there is a reason to dislike him after all! :happy:

Look deep down inside you, just because your ISP convinced you to pick them, do you still have that opinion 2 years later? I certainly hope not!

Meaningful when one properly examines the true motives of those involved,

Ja, vendetta is meaningful when the true motives, which are none other than revenge are properly examined. I am glad that we finally agree that Garrus has every reason to have one! Because, come on, I am waiting.

What motive is there to vendetta other than revenge?




Okay.


I find the fact that you are attempting to undermine feelings like revenge, remorse and pain caused by death of a loved one in order to justify your point (what's your point again? That Garrus shouldn't hate Sidonis, and that thus there is no character development?) quite intriguing!

we never hear Sidonis's side of the story.

You have either not played the mission more than twice or you have a very comortable selective memory.
You know, the part when he says that they were going to kill him and he wants to repay Garrus?

This revenge sub-plot is entirely one sided and told only by the victim, and there are no consequences to it. He can still waltz around the citadel after killing someone in public, that's poor storytelling plain and simple. Maybe try looking from so good revenge storys first? Get some out of video game context for the things you say.

Da, I remember all these films during which ballistics experts manage to match used mass accelerator projectiles fired from an unregistered sniper rifle and catch the killer! Or you know, all the vendetta films with no happy endings. 

Did Edgar Allan Poe not teach us anything?

I've played the game all the way through about 8 times now, they're not there in any meaningful or realistic fashion. I can understand if you want to infer them onto his character and are grasping at straws, but in game they are not touched upon in any meaningful or thought provoking manner.

Is that so? 8 times?

Shepard: Don't bother Garrus, he is already dead.
Garrus: No, he has to pay!

or

Garrus: I guess that I should thank you. All this time I have been seeing the world in black and white etc.

You should try playing Paragon here and there.

Odd thing for someone so bent on defending Garrus's character from detractors of any kind to just out right claim that in ME1 he had no character. Of course if you really believe that it would make your nonsensical position on the ME2 variant of Garrus make all the more sense. You never liked the character to begin with so a total 180 would be just fine for you.

Just because I defend Garrus from baseless accusations like this, it doesn't mean that I am a fanboy who can't think for his own.

In ME1, Garrus was a whiny cop who said that he was glad to leave C-Sec and join Shepard, and that C-Sec sucked, and also, that true justice was not served.

Does that not answer both of your questions? 


Now, now, I have to call this a day, but don't go anywhere, I'll be back tomorrow!

[Cartims]

Yana Montana wrote...

I don't like Garrus either. Sue me. ;P

What are your assets....

[Siansonea]

I like Garrus. I don't luurve Garrus, but I like him okay as a friend/ally. Zaeed and Tali I actively dislike, especially Tali. It's okay to like certain characters and dislike other characters though. At least the game seems to have "something for everybody". And sometimes it's fun to hate a character. I have a lot of fun doing mean things to Tali in the game. >

Modifié par Siansonea II, 31 janvier 2011 - 11:00 .

[Malmern]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Again, I know what Garrus's reasons were.
That still doesn't change the fact that he caused all that chaos.  He caused the mercenaries to team up; he caused them to start hiring freelancers off the streets of Omega; he caused all that death despite his intention of "doing good".

And still I'm going to ask this question: why?  Why did he go to Omega instead of trying to save people on the Citadel?  Because he was sick of following orders.  Because he was tired of all the "red tape".  So he decided to gallavanting off to some lawless sector so he could finally do things "his way" for a change.  And look where that got him.  There are all kinds of noble causes out there; that doesn't mean they all should be pursued.  And it certainly doesn't mean they should be pursued in such a reckless way.

Garrus's desire to "do good" does not outweigh his impatience and recklessness for me, especially when he still acts like such a cocky idiot about everything.  And by "cocky idiot" I'm referring to his comments like only having to point and shoot to kill criminals on Omega.  As we plainly see, not everyone on Omega is a criminal.  Also his calling the freelancers "witless idiots".  Yeah. they may not ahve been too bright, but he has absolutely no idea why those freelancers decided to take the job.  Maybe they were completely strapped for cash and needed to feed their starving children.  Garrus just recklessly digs himself into a pit because he thinks he knows best, and it never goes right, something Garrus admits himself.

I kinda see Garrus as a sort of Anti-Hero, if you catch my drift.

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

Your opinion is wrong.

[Aeowyn]

Meh, this discussion again? Hate whoever you want, but to kill someone off just because you dislike that character seems a bit immature, don't you think?

[Jarek_Cousland]

@OP:Lol I love the sniper hate.





One thing you gotta love is some Shotgun berserker getting picked off by a skilled sniper.





Dont hate the skillz son.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Rogue Unit wrote...
I'm sure he saved more than one life by taking Omega's top three gangs. But if you feel that murders shouldn't be held accountable and should be able to continue killing as they please, by all means..
You have to remeber, Omega has no prison system, no legal system. The only way to deal with the murders were to take them out.
If an officer has to kill three terrorist to save one hostage, I feel it was justified. Their lives aren't worth less, but they need to be stopped.
The same thing could be said for Samara. She'll kill you just for being a corrupt politician.

So now I'm trying to argue that murderers shouldn't be held accountable?  Interesting how you try to twist what I say.

To reiterate: the issue here is that Garrus is recklessly endangering lives and causing countless deaths for the sake of a mission that has no chance of success.

To go back to my earlier analogy, I said he was trying to drain the oceans with a straw and you said that was better than doing nothing.  Well, sure it is, but for all that time and effort spent sucking salt-water through that straw Garrus could have been draining a pond with a motorized pump and a team of professional water-drainers with buckets.
(For the sake of the analogy, let's say the water is evil and draining it totally saves lives)

Modifié par Mystranna Kelteel, 31 janvier 2011 - 11:05 .

[Rogue Unit]

Siansonea II wrote...

I like Garrus. I don't luurve Garrus, but I like him okay as a friend/ally. Zaeed and Tali I actively dislike, especially Tali. It's okay to like certain characters and dislike other characters though. At least the game seems to have "something for everybody". And sometimes it's fun to hate a character. I have a lot of fun doing mean things to Tali in the game. >

As so I.

[Black-Xero]

Siansonea II wrote...

I like Garrus. I don't luurve Garrus, but I like him okay as a friend/ally. Zaeed and Tali I actively dislike, especially Tali. It's okay to like certain characters and dislike other characters though. At least the game seems to have "something for everybody". And sometimes it's fun to hate a character. I have a lot of fun doing mean things to Tali in the game. >

She's my least favorite squad member in ME2.I don't enjoy saying the awful things that I do to her since she is a member of my squad but....I need those renegade points.I'm sure she's going to forget everything I said to her in ME3.

[Sparda Stonerule]

Ok ok ok. So let me get this straight. Someone makes a baseless claim in an original post as to how they don't like a character. Fans of said character declare troll and scramble to make baseless counter arguments while insulting other characters. Then to satisfy their false intellect people come in and spout nonsense that is only sort of related to the first post. All the while people are ignoring good posts and replying to the posts they wish to point out flaws in.

Does this forum follow a formula or something? Honestly this is like every character dislike thread I have ever seen.