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[Zurcior]

jbblue05 wrote...

HdS84 wrote...

Most rengade options simply suck in the long run:
Yes of course, you can kill the council, the rachni queen and so on.
But ultimately it's stupid simply because this not only a "one round" game but there are many rounds to come.
Do you really think the turians would accept a pure human council in the long run? They have more ships, a more powerful industry and much more people -> pissing them off is a BAD idea.

Most renegade options are not "realistic" but rude, selfish and aim for short time gain. You are feeling lonely after the end of the story? Maybe that's because no one likes you.

Most paragon options are in favor of law, morality and long-term gain. So they'Re feeling not so lonely at the end of the game.

The biggest problem is that bioware fails to offer good options for both types. Why is ist "renegade" to kill the eclipse soldiers on mirandas loyality mission?. That should be a "neutral" interrupt.
There should be more real CHOICES between "selifsh" and "greater good". Like the end of overlord.

your logic is flawed
Paragons are more short-sighted and look for glory
Renegades promote long-term stability

Their is no all-huma council.

How do paragons favor law?  They are more about doing personal favors for their friends.  Giving Tali the Geth data, letting Garrus and Wrex on Normandy SR1, making ANderson the COuncil,  freeing the Rachni and not letting the Council  decide.

Renegades aren't rude we just aren't as nice as paragons. We have a galaxy to save we don't have time to scan keepers.

Shepard is the most selfless person in the galaxy whether renegade or paragon. 

 Shepard gave Tali a COPY of the geth data.

 Garrus and Wrex weren't even Shepard's friends in the beggining, so what you said doesn't even make sense.

 Renegades can choose Anderson too. Besides, even renegades should realise that Udina is a horrible choice.

 How is that different from Renegades commiting genocide against the Rachni without the Councils input?

 And as far as I'm concerned, Renegades are more naive and shortsighted than Paragons. If that whole "don't have time to scan keepers even though they later turn out to be a key component to the Reaper plan" is any indication.

[jbblue05]

Jabarai wrote...

I would argue that perhaps one out of twenty renegade decisions does indeed promote long-term stability. Most of them are purely stupid and unjustified (apart from the fact that they provide meta-roleplayers with evil-points).

Evidence and reasons or is it just a choice you couldn't make

While paragons don't always follow the law, they're very much closer to it than renegades. You can't argue that.

Renegades work better outside the law

[jbblue05]

Zurcior wrote...

 Shepard gave Tali a COPY of the geth data.

 Garrus and Wrex weren't even Shepard's friends in the beggining, so what you said doesn't even make sense.

 Renegades can choose Anderson too. Besides, even renegades should realise that Udina is a horrible choice.

 How is that different from Renegades commiting genocide against the Rachni without the Councils input?

 And as far as I'm concerned, Renegades are more naive and shortsighted than Paragons. If that whole "don't have time to scan keepers even though they later turn out to be a key component to the Reaper plan" is any indication.

The Geth data belong to the Alliance and Council.  I already know Tali got a COPY.

Garrus, Tali  and Wrex are alien mercenaries who have ZERO businees aboard the most advanced Alliance naval Ship.

Choosing Andersdon IS a paragon decision and you have to be joking or a complete moron if you think Anderson is a better Councilor than Udina.

Killing the Rachni Queen is the smarter choice than letting one run free in the wild.  If their was an option I would've handed the Queen over to the Council.

Renegades are more naive than paragons.
Renegades are more absolute not giving your enemies a second chance to stab you in the back.  Paragons are about faith, second chances, etc..

Your metagaming with the keepers.
Saren's power is growing you don't have the luxury  to run around scanning keepers

[Xilizhra]

Like I said Shepard tries to make Mordin feel guilty to cure the Genophage

There's no mention of curing it until the end, just arguing over it.

Metagaming. Trillions of lives are more important than 10,003 lives

Not metagaming, risk assessment. Successful risk assessment.

Exactly their is no evidence only Sovereign knows everything is speculation.form the Rachni Queen

Prior to the Genophage the Krogans were the chosen race for 'asecnsion'. Svereign was using the rachni as a tool to test the other races strength.

Hence, it'd make sense to indoctrinate them and then use them to attack the galaxy.

I think 'good' decisions is not the right word. I'm thinking 'morally correct' decisions

They keep turning out well. What does that tell you? From an in-universe perspective.

[didymos1120]

Xilizhra wrote...

There's no mention of curing it until the end, just arguing over it.

There's still no curing or even any actual, concrete plans for one.  It works out to keeping the option of a quicker cure open, as Maelon's work can always be re-done by someone else (and Maelon wasn't the first to head down that research path either....)

[Dirty_Dan]

didnt anybody save the council for the big ass gun they had and then got pissed off when they didnt even try to help.
also i kept the genophage cure just cause it might come in handy later.
rachni queen = zerg who owe you
i let balak go thinking i could get his ass later (in retrospective, not such a good idea)

Modifié par Dirty_Dan, 01 février 2011 - 09:59 .

[didymos1120]

Dirty_Dan wrote...

didnt anybody save the council for the big ass gun they had and then got pissed off when they didnt even try to help

Why would you expect them to?  The DA had been crippled.  Hence their need for rescue.

[Dirty_Dan]

didymos1120 wrote...

Dirty_Dan wrote...

didnt anybody save the council for the big ass gun they had and then got pissed off when they didnt even try to help

Why would you expect them to?  The DA had been crippled.  Hence their need for rescue.

I had assumed that it was just all the geth fire they were taking, if they were given a couple of minutes to recover I thought they could head on into the fray

[jbblue05]

Xilizhra wrote...

Not metagaming, risk assessment. Successful risk assessment.

Doesn't matter whether renegade or paragon  it was all dumb luck that Sovereign was defeated

Hence, it'd make sense to indoctrinate them and then use them to attack the galaxy.

you seem to forget that Sallarian explorers activated a dormant relay to enter rachni space and relays can only be used once its twin has been activated.

The rachni attacked once the Salarians enter their space.  If Sovereign controlled the Rachni from the start he would initiate first contact not wait..

The Reapers care more about the species that reach the Citadel.  Its highly likely SOvereign presented himself to the Rachni once he realized the Council were preparing for war

They keep turning out well. What does that tell you? From an in-universe perspective.

Its a video game and Bioware doesn't wasnt to punish you.  Because Bioware knows Paragons will go back and change their choices iff the alternative leads more to the 'fairy-tale ending"

Modifié par jbblue05, 01 février 2011 - 10:04 .

[jbblue05]

Dirty_Dan wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Dirty_Dan wrote...

didnt anybody save the council for the big ass gun they had and then got pissed off when they didnt even try to help

Why would you expect them to?  The DA had been crippled.  Hence their need for rescue.

I had assumed that it was just all the geth fire they were taking, if they were given a couple of minutes to recover I thought they could head on into the fray

The COuncil has no honor they refused to fight alongside the ALliance even though the ALliance saved their asses

Another reason why I gladly kill them

[Dirty_Dan]

Also if you think about it, they need to take out the geth ships anyway, why not while the arms are opening up then when you also have to deal with sovereign.

[Jabarai]

jbblue05 wrote...

Jabarai wrote...

I would argue that perhaps one out of twenty renegade decisions does indeed promote long-term stability. Most of them are purely stupid and unjustified (apart from the fact that they provide meta-roleplayers with evil-points).

Evidence and reasons or is it just a choice you couldn't make

Could I have that with all the punctuations, please? Because I can't make out a question out of that.

I'm quite open to choosing renegade options and have taken that road on many occasions with both of my Shepards. Many times the renegade option seems like the better choice - and then I pick that, no problems. But seriously, most of the time the renegade options feel like they were written by a fifteen-year-old.

Going through a list of examples would waste a lot of time. 

[AkiKishi]

deleted

Modifié par BobSmith101, 01 février 2011 - 10:44 .

[AkiKishi]

Jabarai wrote...

I'm quite open to choosing renegade options and have taken that road on many occasions with both of my Shepards. Many times the renegade option seems like the better choice - and then I pick that, no problems. But seriously, most of the time the renegade options feel like they were written by a fifteen-year-old.

Going through a list of examples would waste a lot of time. 

Renegades have a pretty simplistic outlook so it's not suprising.

I think part of the problem is that Bioware have been making the same game in different skins since KOTOR. Light/Dark scale. I'm glad DA finally broke that, DA gives a much more organic feel to the choices you make.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 01 février 2011 - 10:43 .

[didymos1120]

jbblue05 wrote...

The COuncil has no honor they refused to fight alongside the ALliance even though the ALliance saved their asses

Another reason why I gladly kill them

What are you talking about?  The Council forces were destroyed or disabled at that point, including the DA.  Since you played this card earlier, I'll assume you're prepared for it being played on you: where's your evidence they were capable of assisting?

If you're thinking about some other battle, then again: what are talking about?

[STG]

thurmanator692 wrote...
If you do things solely for the renegade-paragon points, you're totally missing the point of the whole "roleplaying game" thing

[Jabarai]

BobSmith101 wrote...
I think part of the problem is that Bioware have been making the same game in different skins since KOTOR. Light/Dark scale. I'm glad DA finally broke that, DA gives a much more organic feel to the choices you make.

Quite right. :happy: 

But then again, I have to give them at least some credit for trying to evolve beyond the "good-evil" scale by giving us two separate meters. It's not much of a change, but while the one-dimensional light-dark scale worked perfectly well for KOTOR, it would've flunked for ME.

[didymos1120]

Dirty_Dan wrote...

Also if you think about it, they need to take out the geth ships anyway, why not while the arms are opening up then when you also have to deal with sovereign.

Yeah, I always kinda wondered about that:

"I say we just ignore that sizable and apparently undamaged enemy force."

"Fantastic idea.  I mean, it's not like they'll attack us from behind or anything while we're all concentrating on Sovereign..."

"Oh, did you read the script too, sir?"

Modifié par didymos1120, 01 février 2011 - 10:50 .

[AkiKishi]

Jabarai wrote...

Quite right. :happy: 

But then again, I have to give them at least some credit for trying to evolve beyond the "good-evil" scale by giving us two separate meters. It's not much of a change, but while the one-dimensional light-dark scale worked perfectly well for KOTOR, it would've flunked for ME.

Granted it's progress but I played ME after DA so it felt like a step back. Some Renegade choices are good, normally the interupt ones like shooting the explosive tank the Krogan is monologing on, or hitting the repair guy on the back of the head. I usually end up around 80p20r. I don't like one dimensional characters.

[jbblue05]

didymos1120 wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

The COuncil has no honor they refused to fight alongside the ALliance even though the ALliance saved their asses

Another reason why I gladly kill them

What are you talking about?  The Council forces were destroyed or disabled at that point, including the DA.  Since you played this card earlier, I'll assume you're prepared for it being played on you: where's your evidence they were capable of assisting?

If you're thinking about some other battle, then again: what are talking about?

I'm talking aboout the DA.

The DA is a dreadnought that can attack from a long range.  While the Alliance hits SOvereign with bug bites the DA could fire its main gun and shorten the battle saving more human lives.

THe counicl doesn't care about  the Alliance they just want to get themselves to safety

[Zurcior]

jbblue05 wrote...

Zurcior wrote...

 Shepard gave Tali a COPY of the geth data.

 Garrus and Wrex weren't even Shepard's friends in the beggining, so what you said doesn't even make sense.

 Renegades can choose Anderson too. Besides, even renegades should realise that Udina is a horrible choice.

 How is that different from Renegades commiting genocide against the Rachni without the Councils input?

 And as far as I'm concerned, Renegades are more naive and shortsighted than Paragons. If that whole "don't have time to scan keepers even though they later turn out to be a key component to the Reaper plan" is any indication.

The Geth data belong to the Alliance and Council.  I already know Tali got a COPY.

Garrus, Tali  and Wrex are alien mercenaries who have ZERO businees aboard the most advanced Alliance naval Ship.

Choosing Andersdon IS a paragon decision and you have to be joking or a complete moron if you think Anderson is a better Councilor than Udina.

Killing the Rachni Queen is the smarter choice than letting one run free in the wild.  If their was an option I would've handed the Queen over to the Council.

Renegades are more naive than paragons.
Renegades are more absolute not giving your enemies a second chance to stab you in the back.  Paragons are about faith, second chances, etc..

Your metagaming with the keepers.
Saren's power is growing you don't have the luxury  to run around scanning keepers

Mercenaries? The only mercenary was Wrex, and he wasn't even on the mission for the money.

I'll report you for that insult. Great job!

Smarter choice? How?

Absolution is the folly of the short-sighted. "not giving your enemies a second chance to stab you in the back." Are you saying that RenegadeShep is a paranoid coward who makes decisions based on fear? Seems like it.

Saren's power is growing??? Please. And Keeper scanning doesn't even take that long.

[AkiKishi]

jbblue05 wrote...

I'm talking aboout the DA.

The DA is a dreadnought that can attack from a long range.  While the Alliance hits SOvereign with bug bites the DA could fire its main gun and shorten the battle saving more human lives.

THe counicl doesn't care about  the Alliance they just want to get themselves to safety

One little issue with that "friendly fire" Yes it's got a big gun but the sovereign battle is a dog fight it's not a fleet engagement. It might be able to make a big hole in sovereign but it's also going to make big holes in anything between it and sovereign.

[jbblue05]

didymos1120 wrote...

Dirty_Dan wrote...

Also if you think about it, they need to take out the geth ships anyway, why not while the arms are opening up then when you also have to deal with sovereign.

Yeah, I always kinda wondered about that:

"I say we just ignore that sizable and apparently undamaged enemy force."

"Fantastic idea.  I mean, it's not like they'll attack us from behind or anything while we're all concentrating on Sovereign..."

"Oh, did you read the script too, sir?"

Its called cutting the head off the snake and the body will die

The point is to hold the fleet back while the Geth leave Sovereign vulnerable by attacking other Citadel forces.

The Alliance at full strength is supposed to overwhlem Sovereign for a short period.  The battle with Sovereign only lasted a couple of minutes

The Alliance could jam Sovereign's communication so he can't recall the Geth.  plus Shepard can lock the Alliance and Sovereign in the CItadel arm if the Geth show  

[JerkyJohnny14]

jbblue05 wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

The COuncil has no honor they refused to fight alongside the ALliance even though the ALliance saved their asses

Another reason why I gladly kill them

What are you talking about?  The Council forces were destroyed or disabled at that point, including the DA.  Since you played this card earlier, I'll assume you're prepared for it being played on you: where's your evidence they were capable of assisting?

If you're thinking about some other battle, then again: what are talking about?

I'm talking aboout the DA.

The DA is a dreadnought that can attack from a long range.  While the Alliance hits SOvereign with bug bites the DA could fire its main gun and shorten the battle saving more human lives.

THe counicl doesn't care about  the Alliance they just want to get themselves to safety

Blue is right the council are just cowards looking for safety. I mean the DA could have at least tried to do somethong heck maybe self destruct and take out some geth cruisers. But, I always saved them because a human ran galactic council just spells trouble. I beleive in ME3 the council might, just might, stand by your side for once, and perhaps vitally help against the reapers. Who knows? I could be wrong. Probably they will clamour into the destiny ascension disable themselves and cry out for help. At that point I would gladly blow them up myself!