976 réponses à ce sujet

[Oppopji]

This is an extremely disappointing development; especially considering the copy protection DA:O and ME2 used and how well they sold. EA & Bioware, haven't you learned from pretty much every release over the past decade that DRM schemes like this will only harm those who obtain a legal copy of the game? That the main effect this will have is to give pirates a superior copy of the game than your customers?

Consider this:

Legal copy: Install game, perform zero day check & immediate online activation followed by periodic reactivation. Customer is assumed to be a pirate if they can't authenticate online for whatever reason - perhaps the authentication servers are down? Maybe the user's ISP is having problems? Or the user might be somewhere in the world without a stable connection (or any connection at all) - e.g. people in the military stationed somewhere like Iraq or Afghanistan.

Pirate copy: After downloading, just unzip and play.

Were you even watching what happened regarding the abominable DRM scheme Ubisoft created & used in AC2 etc? I think this quote from a comment on an article about TW2 coming DRM-free to GOG.com says it best:


"More to the point, AC2’s DRM actually worked. It provided huge headaches for legitimate buyers, but for maybe one whole month it actually prevented piracy. So let’s look at this reasonably. All this time we’ve been told that if you could FULLY remove piracy from the equation, game sales would shoot through the roof. So they had that crucial sales period with zero piracy. We should have seen a massive boost in sales shouldn’t we? The PC version should have been selling like crazy during this period, well enough to easily match or surpass the console versions. Did it? Ubisoft remains studiously quiet on that front every time that question’s been put to them, and meanwhile they dropped it from RUSE because the DRM was killing its hype. Oh dear…"

http://dudelol.com/drm sums it up really.

Modifié par Oppopji, 01 février 2011 - 04:22 .

[StingingVelvet]

ejoslin wrote...

This type of DRM does encourage piracy. Or it at least encourages people to start using cracks, even if they purchase the game itself. Why not something like, well, a disk check and then if there is no disk, then require the online authentication every few days? This would make both the people who hate disk checks happy, and the ones who don't have stable internet or who travel a lot happy as well.

for people who compare it with outdated hardware -- that's not the same thing at all. Internet access is not required to play a single player game, and furthermore, not having internet access does not diminish the game (as would building a game that would run on a 10 year old system would).

There will be cracked and pirated copies available the day after the game is released, if not sooner. And if a middle aged housewife like me knows where they will be, then EVERYONE does. Making the game hard to almost impossible to play because of restrictive DRM in the legal copies for many people is a mistake.

Edit: While I am definitely not against DRM, I think a one-time authentication is plenty.  Allow it on a limited number of machines (even if that limited number is 1 or 2), and then if you want to install it on a different machine, deauthenticate it during the uninstallation.  yes, there will be people who figure out how to keep it installed, but that is no different than people who figure out how to crack the game to begin with.  

Great post, I agree 100%.

[StingingVelvet]

Oppopji wrote...

http://dudelol.com/drm sums it up really.

Your whole post was brilliant and this is a freaking AWESOME ending.  I love this cartoon, and it perfectly summarizes my feelings on this thread.

[Voidlight]

ejoslin wrote...

Edit: While I am definitely not against DRM, I think a one-time authentication is plenty.  Allow it on a limited number of machines (even if that limited number is 1 or 2), and then if you want to install it on a different machine, deauthenticate it during the uninstallation.  yes, there will be people who figure out how to keep it installed, but that is no different than people who figure out how to crack the game to begin with.  

This system is good in theory but sadly it's not foolproof. I lost three Mass Effect activations because EA's deauthentication tool failed to update the server when it deactivated the game on my PC.

[packardbell]

People claiming the pirates will enjoy the game DRM free aren't completely right. After getting a copy of Dead Space 2 early I looked to find some sort of anti-drm that removed the release date checker, couldn't find one. No working crack was released until after the EU release.

[Fraevar]

StingingVelvet wrote...

And again, hopefuly not breaking the rules, this kind of DRM will drive them to that more than anything.  Why put up with it?  As a Bioware supporter who will surely purchase the game, why should I put up with it when I can just end the hassle with a quick download?  Do they think I have a moral problem with that when I already bought the game for $60?  I assure you I don't have a moral problem with playing the game I bought.

It's pointless customer annoyance that will either continually restrict paying customers or send them to the "dark side" to get rid of the annoyance, all the while pirates and file-sharers get DRM free copies to play as they like.

So stupid.

Quoted for truth: I'd like my disc-check back, please. Or do what DICE did on BBC2 and let the user decide if they want to use disk-checks or the periodic online authentication. It's been done once, there is no excuse for not doing it here.

[TwistedComplex]

Buy DA2



Download crack



Wow that was hard

[Oppopji]

packardbell wrote...

People claiming the pirates will enjoy the game DRM free aren't completely right. After getting a copy of Dead Space 2 early I looked to find some sort of anti-drm that removed the release date checker, couldn't find one. No working crack was released until after the EU release.

Zero day checks usually involve leaving the binaries off the game disc & require them to be downloaded on install, so that's not surprising as essentially there would have been no game for the pirates to crack.

[packardbell]

Oppopji wrote...

packardbell wrote...

People claiming the pirates will enjoy the game DRM free aren't completely right. After getting a copy of Dead Space 2 early I looked to find some sort of anti-drm that removed the release date checker, couldn't find one. No working crack was released until after the EU release.

Zero day checks usually involve leaving the binaries off the game disc & require them to be downloaded on install, so that's not surprising as essentially there would have been no game for the pirates to crack.

Well this was after it was released in NA.. so they had a working version of the game and people who bought it legtimately were able to play.

[StingingVelvet]

packardbell wrote...

People claiming the pirates will enjoy the game DRM free aren't completely right. After getting a copy of Dead Space 2 early I looked to find some sort of anti-drm that removed the release date checker, couldn't find one. No working crack was released until after the EU release.

They all just wait though, it does not increase sales.  More to the point though Dragon Age 2 will only use Steam DRM on that version of the game and Steam DRM can be cracked in 5 minutes.

[Tellervo]

Yeah, you know, I was of the "someone could talk me into buying it first week if its better than I expect" mindset. Now? You know, I have a reliable internet connection, but I remember a time when I didn't and foresee a time when internet won't be an option at all for me. I'm not buying a game I won't be able to play in a few months, not at any price.

[TwistedComplex]

N3n wrote...

Inarborat wrote...

DRM doesn't work. When will publishers learn...

Who knows maybe one day. Until then they will treat us paying customers like thieves.

That's incredibly misleading

That's like saying wal-mart treats customers like theives cause they use scanners on the enterances and exits to protect their investment

You need proof you bought something at a store, likewise you need proof you bought DA2

[ejoslin]

Voidlight wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Edit: While I am definitely not against DRM, I think a one-time authentication is plenty.  Allow it on a limited number of machines (even if that limited number is 1 or 2), and then if you want to install it on a different machine, deauthenticate it during the uninstallation.  yes, there will be people who figure out how to keep it installed, but that is no different than people who figure out how to crack the game to begin with.  

This system is good in theory but sadly it's not foolproof. I lost three Mass Effect activations because EA's deauthentication tool failed to update the server when it deactivated the game on my PC.

That is a huge problem, and it's another reason why DRM encourages piracy -- the producer of the game has DRM schemes that damage the actual customers.  And I imagine under the new DRM that is planned for DA2, it will be just as much of an issue, if not more.

I had another suggestion up there, combining a disk check with this multiple times authentication thing.  I really see nothing at all wrong with requiring a disk in the drive while playing a game (console players need to do this as well).  I would vastly prefer a disk check than having to authenticate my game every few days.

Edit: I had more DAO games trashed over my DLCs deauthenticating themselves when my characters were using DLC gear, and poor shale ended up a mute statue more than once.  I would not have had this issue with pirated games (which I would NOT consider doing), so I have been penalized for being an honest, paying customer.

Modifié par ejoslin, 01 février 2011 - 04:35 .

[StingingVelvet]

TwistedComplex wrote...

N3n wrote...

Inarborat wrote...

DRM doesn't work. When will publishers learn...

Who knows maybe one day. Until then they will treat us paying customers like thieves.

That's incredibly misleading

That's like saying wal-mart treats customers like theives cause they use scanners on the enterances and exits to protect their investment

You need proof you bought something at a store, likewise you need proof you bought DA2

That analogy doesn't really hold up though because we already bought the game.  People who actually "steal" the game don't have to worry about this DRM at all, they won't even know it ever existed.  Basically it's more like Walmart sending an employee to your house to make sure everything you use over the next few weeks was purchased.

[Nighteye2]

I still prefer a disc check, but I can live with it if the DRM will be patched out 2 or 3 years from now, so that I can keep on playing it or installing it even after the servers have shut down.

[Ryzaki]

TwistedComplex wrote...

N3n wrote...

Inarborat wrote...

DRM doesn't work. When will publishers learn...

Who knows maybe one day. Until then they will treat us paying customers like thieves.

That's incredibly misleading

That's like saying wal-mart treats customers like theives cause they use scanners on the enterances and exits to protect their investment

You need proof you bought something at a store, likewise you need proof you bought DA2

Wrong its more like using scanners and having the scanner periodically beep back to the store after you've purchased the food and shown them your proof of purchase.

[TwistedComplex]

ejoslin wrote...

Voidlight wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Edit: While I am definitely not against DRM, I think a one-time authentication is plenty.  Allow it on a limited number of machines (even if that limited number is 1 or 2), and then if you want to install it on a different machine, deauthenticate it during the uninstallation.  yes, there will be people who figure out how to keep it installed, but that is no different than people who figure out how to crack the game to begin with.  

This system is good in theory but sadly it's not foolproof. I lost three Mass Effect activations because EA's deauthentication tool failed to update the server when it deactivated the game on my PC.

That is a huge problem, and it's another reason why DRM encourages piracy -- the producer of the game has DRM schemes that damage the actual customers.  And I imagine under the new DRM that is planned for DA2, it will be just as much of an issue, if not more.

I had another suggestion up there, combining a disk check with this multiple times authentication thing.  I really see nothing at all wrong with requiring a disk in the drive while playing a game (console players need to do this as well).  I would vastly prefer a disk check than having to authenticate my game every few days.

Well by your logic why should they even bother with a disk check?

In your words, companies shouldn't even try to keep their investment secure

[N3n]

It's terribly quiet here, no devs for quite some time now. They've probably thought that we would be happy with their new and improved drm.

[TwistedComplex]

Ryzaki wrote...

TwistedComplex wrote...

N3n wrote...

Inarborat wrote...

DRM doesn't work. When will publishers learn...

Who knows maybe one day. Until then they will treat us paying customers like thieves.

That's incredibly misleading

That's like saying wal-mart treats customers like theives cause they use scanners on the enterances and exits to protect their investment

You need proof you bought something at a store, likewise you need proof you bought DA2

Wrong its more like using scanners and having the scanner periodically beep back to the store after you've purchased the food and shown them your proof of purchase.

Actually my anology was correct

Every time you go to wal-mart, you're scanned

Every so often when you play DA2, you're scanned

[Jonp382]

TwistedComplex wrote...

Actually my anology was correct

Every time you go to wal-mart, you're scanned

Every so often when you play DA2, you're scanned

Did you buy Wal-Mart?

[TwistedComplex]

N3n wrote...

It's terribly quiet here, no devs for quite some time now. They've probably thought that we would be happy with their new and improved drm.

I think it's hilarious you think the devs are behind the DRM

That gave me a good chuckle

YEAH, David Gaider, LEAD WRITER of DA2, why don't you explain something to us that isn't even remotely in your department huh? WE DEMAND ANSWERS

I can't stand talking to gamers sometimes

[Oppopji]

packardbell wrote...

Well this was after it was released in NA.. so they had a working version of the game and people who bought it legtimately were able to play.

Well it takes some time for pirates to make a crack, this varies a lot. Ubi's "always on" DRM lasted about a month

[TwistedComplex]

Jonp382 wrote...

TwistedComplex wrote...

Actually my anology was correct

Every time you go to wal-mart, you're scanned

Every so often when you play DA2, you're scanned

Did you buy Wal-Mart?

Did i buy EA?

No i bought a product of theirs

Did i buy Wal-Marts?

No i bought a product of theirs

I was scanned for each

[StingingVelvet]

TwistedComplex wrote...

Well by your logic why should they even bother with a disk check?

In your words, companies shouldn't even try to keep their investment secure

A company's efforts should be reasonable considering the chance for success.  This DRM will not stop any pirates and will not increase sales, so why use it?  That's the whole point... it just harrases legitimate buyers.

I read the first post in this thread by Priestly as this: "hey all, we are going to annoy you with DRM because you bought our game.  Pirates will continue to get unfettered access.  Thanks for your time."