976 réponses à ce sujet

[mousestalker]

When DAO came out I brought it to the beach with me at Spring Break. I have a gaming laptop (Such do exist) and my nieces and nephews greatly enjoyed playing the game. They were all awestruck at how cool I was. I enjoyed watching them (they are all of an appropriate age to play). This DRM makes it unlikely I will be able to bring DA2 to the beach this summer as the beach house has no Internetz.



Because I will not be able to impress my nieces and nephews with my games, I will have to buy them cigarettes and hard liquor to remain cool. When they die in the gutter from emphysema and cirrhosis of the liver it will all be Bioware's fault.

[TwistedComplex]

StingingVelvet wrote...

TwistedComplex wrote...

Well by your logic why should they even bother with a disk check?

In your words, companies shouldn't even try to keep their investment secure

A company's efforts should be reasonable considering the chance for success.  This DRM will not stop any pirates and will not increase sales, so why use it?  That's the whole point... it just harrases legitimate buyers.

I read the first post in this thread by Priestly as this: "hey all, we are going to annoy you with DRM because you bought our game.  Pirates will continue to get unfettered access.  Thanks for your time."

I like how you think pirates can crack every DRM in 5 minutes

That's cute

[StingingVelvet]

TwistedComplex wrote...

Jonp382 wrote...

TwistedComplex wrote...

Actually my anology was correct

Every time you go to wal-mart, you're scanned

Every so often when you play DA2, you're scanned

Did you buy Wal-Mart?

Did i buy EA?

No i bought a product of theirs

Did i buy Wal-Marts?

No i bought a product of theirs

I was scanned for each

You get scanned once going out the door, then you own whatever you bought forever.  If that was the case with DA2, like the UPS scans me or something and then I own it forever and EA has no say, then I would be fine with it.

Basically your analogy is ridiculously off-target.

[Unato]

TwistedComplex wrote...

Jonp382 wrote...

TwistedComplex wrote...

Actually my anology was correct

Every time you go to wal-mart, you're scanned

Every so often when you play DA2, you're scanned

Did you buy Wal-Mart?

Did i buy EA?

No i bought a product of theirs

Did i buy Wal-Marts?

No i bought a product of theirs

I was scanned for each

which basically equates to one time activation? did someone come over from wal mart every 30 days checking to see if you still had their product? ( what on earth is wal mart anyway)

[Ryzaki]

TwistedComplex wrote...

Actually my anology was correct

Every time you go to wal-mart, you're scanned

Every so often when you play DA2, you're scanned

Except everytime I cook the food I bought at Walmart I'm not scanned.

[ejoslin]

TwistedComplex wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Voidlight wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Edit: While I am definitely not against DRM, I think a one-time authentication is plenty.  Allow it on a limited number of machines (even if that limited number is 1 or 2), and then if you want to install it on a different machine, deauthenticate it during the uninstallation.  yes, there will be people who figure out how to keep it installed, but that is no different than people who figure out how to crack the game to begin with.  

This system is good in theory but sadly it's not foolproof. I lost three Mass Effect activations because EA's deauthentication tool failed to update the server when it deactivated the game on my PC.

That is a huge problem, and it's another reason why DRM encourages piracy -- the producer of the game has DRM schemes that damage the actual customers.  And I imagine under the new DRM that is planned for DA2, it will be just as much of an issue, if not more.

I had another suggestion up there, combining a disk check with this multiple times authentication thing.  I really see nothing at all wrong with requiring a disk in the drive while playing a game (console players need to do this as well).  I would vastly prefer a disk check than having to authenticate my game every few days.

Well by your logic why should they even bother with a disk check?

In your words, companies shouldn't even try to keep their investment secure

I don't get how you jump to THAT conclusion.  I said nothing of the sort and suggested a disk check as an alternative to the online authentication thing happening over and over.  

DRM does not keep their investment secure.  It encourages piracy.  It often penalizes legitimate customers.  I cannot tell you how many times in DAO my DLCs deauthenticated and left Shale a mute statue, or I lost my gear that i had in warden's keep.  these issues did not happen for people who pirated the game, only for the paying customers.  Since I wouldn't pirate, I am penalized, but can't you at least see why people who are a bit more on the fence would be very tempted to start using pirated versions?  I sure can.

There will be cracked games out the day after release.  That is just a fact.  You may not like it, but DRM of this sort will not prevent it.  A reasonable DRM to stop people from sharing between friends is NP at all and a disk check is adequate.  And having that online authenticate over and over for people who hate disk checks that much... why not?  but I think of a disk check much like how console players have to play -- with the game in the machine.  

Modifié par ejoslin, 01 février 2011 - 04:43 .

[Vizkos]

Release Control:
In other words, don't pick it up at midnight.
Same stuff was present on Dead Space 2, and much to my chagrin, I couldn't play at 12:30 after I picked it up at gamestop and started playing.

At least there are no disk checks though. Disk checks actually led me to actually inputting my CD-Keys into EADM and downloading, just so I didn't have to CD swap.


Also, anyone who says that no DRM = no piracy is either stupid, or ill informed.   There have been several stories ran that use such examples as Worms: Reloaded, a game that had NO DRM and was very low in cost.  It has a 90% piracy rate.  There was also a charity event a few months ago in which you could pay any amount you want, from $0.01 to $infinity, and get 5 indie games.  People still pirated that rather than spend one cent for charity.  Any argument supporting that devs not secure their assests has absolutely no grounds.

Modifié par Prosthetics511, 01 février 2011 - 04:44 .

[TwistedComplex]

StingingVelvet wrote...

TwistedComplex wrote...

Jonp382 wrote...

TwistedComplex wrote...

Actually my anology was correct

Every time you go to wal-mart, you're scanned

Every so often when you play DA2, you're scanned

Did you buy Wal-Mart?

Did i buy EA?

No i bought a product of theirs

Did i buy Wal-Marts?

No i bought a product of theirs

I was scanned for each

You get scanned once going out the door, then you own whatever you bought forever.  If that was the case with DA2, like the UPS scans me or something and then I own it forever and EA has no say, then I would be fine with it.

Basically your analogy is ridiculously off-target.

Regardless of my god damn analogy, i made my point

I have an internet connection, this DRM will no inconvenience me. Just like every DRM on the planet doesn't inconvenience

[StingingVelvet]

TwistedComplex wrote...

StingingVelvet wrote...

TwistedComplex wrote...

Well by your logic why should they even bother with a disk check?

In your words, companies shouldn't even try to keep their investment secure

A company's efforts should be reasonable considering the chance for success.  This DRM will not stop any pirates and will not increase sales, so why use it?  That's the whole point... it just harrases legitimate buyers.

I read the first post in this thread by Priestly as this: "hey all, we are going to annoy you with DRM because you bought our game.  Pirates will continue to get unfettered access.  Thanks for your time."

I like how you think pirates can crack every DRM in 5 minutes

That's cute

Wow, you make debating pointless with the way you ignore basic arguments.  I hate debating with people like you who do that stuff, so this will be my last post in response to you:

Only new DRM methods hold pirates off for any length of time.  DA2 is using just Steam for the Steam version, it will be cracked in 5 minutes.

[Ryzaki]

TwistedComplex wrote...

I like how you think pirates can crack every DRM in 5 minutes

That's cute

Oh it may not be five minutes. But it will be cracked.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Chris Priestly wrote...
Non-Steam versions (digital or retail disc) are as follows:
- No disc check, you do not need the disc in drive to play.
- No limit on the total number of PCs you can install and play the game on.
- There is a limit to the number of unique/different PCs that can start/play the game within a time window [5 PCs in 24hrs].
- Each install requires logging in to your EA account to verify game ownership and if you are a member of these forums, you have an EA account.
- You can play offline but the game will require a login check after a select period of days.

Sounds "great" until a server goes down on the wrong day, or BioWare goes out of business, or...

[TwistedComplex]

ejoslin wrote...

I don't get how you jump to THAT conclusion.  I said nothing of the sort and suggested a disk check as an alternative to the online authentication thing happening over and over.  

DRM does not keep their investment secure.  It encourages piracy.

Well if that's the case why not get rid of DRM altogether?

Your posts are absolutely schizophrenic

"DRM hurts the customer!"

"Just have this kind of DRM"

"DRM does nothing!"

"Have a disk check as DRM"

"DRM encourages pirating!"

Can you make up your friggin mind please?

[TwistedComplex]

StingingVelvet wrote...



Wow, you make debating pointless with the way you ignore basic arguments.  I hate debating with people like you who do that stuff, so this will be my last post in response to you:

Oh boy, I'll be crying myself to sleep tonight

[Jonp382]

TwistedComplex wrote...

Jonp382 wrote...

TwistedComplex wrote...

Actually my anology was correct

Every time you go to wal-mart, you're scanned

Every so often when you play DA2, you're scanned

Did you buy Wal-Mart?

Did i buy EA?

No i bought a product of theirs

Did i buy Wal-Marts?

No i bought a product of theirs

I was scanned for each

And do Wal-Mart's products force you to go to Wal-Mart every 7 days in order to use your purchased product?

[N3n]

TwistedComplex wrote...

Well by your logic why should they even bother with a disk check?

In your words, companies shouldn't even try to keep their investment secure

How about this from GOG page: "100% DRM-Free - GOG.com has never had DRM on any of our games,
and The Witcher 2 will be no different. No DRM crippling your game means no hassle for you! "

[Jonp382]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...
Non-Steam versions (digital or retail disc) are as follows:
- No disc check, you do not need the disc in drive to play.
- No limit on the total number of PCs you can install and play the game on.
- There is a limit to the number of unique/different PCs that can start/play the game within a time window [5 PCs in 24hrs].
- Each install requires logging in to your EA account to verify game ownership and if you are a member of these forums, you have an EA account.
- You can play offline but the game will require a login check after a select period of days.

Sounds "great" until a server goes down on the wrong day, or BioWare goes out of business, or...

Fernando claims there is a 'sunset' plan for DA2's login checks.

You can see the post here.

Modifié par Jonp382, 01 février 2011 - 04:49 .

[Eurypterid]

TwistedComplex wrote...

N3n wrote...

Inarborat wrote...

DRM doesn't work. When will publishers learn...

Who knows maybe one day. Until then they will treat us paying customers like thieves.

That's incredibly misleading

That's like saying wal-mart treats customers like theives cause they use scanners on the enterances and exits to protect their investment

You need proof you bought something at a store, likewise you need proof you bought DA2

That's incredibly misleading. Wal-mart doesn't phone you every few days to demand proof you bought your merchandise. I have proof I nought my games. The proof is the discs, manuals, boxes, and receipts. I shouldn't be required to connect to a server every few days to keep proving it.

TwistedComplex wrote...


Actually my anology was correct

Every time you go to wal-mart, you're scanned

Every so often when you play DA2, you're scanned

Really? You're scanned every time you go into Wal-mart to be sure you're the guy that actually bought that copy of <indert product here>? Your analogy is completely off the mark.


This scheme, IMO, is just 'feature creep'. I'm surprised how many people are saying "Hey, no big deal", given the number that were upset about ME1's proposed DRM, which is almost identical to this. Accept this and what happens for the next game? On-line checks every 2 days or every day? Then what about the next game? Welcome to Ubisoft's always on-line requirement. No thanks. I draw the line here.

[TwistedComplex]

N3n wrote...

TwistedComplex wrote...

Well by your logic why should they even bother with a disk check?

In your words, companies shouldn't even try to keep their investment secure

How about this from GOG page: "100% DRM-Free - GOG.com has never had DRM on any of our games,
and The Witcher 2 will be no different. No DRM crippling your game means no hassle for you! "

I really don't care if a game has DRM or not

I have the accommodations of someone living in the 21st century (computer and internet) so NEITHER of them hassle me

[StingingVelvet]

TwistedComplex wrote...

I really don't care if a game has DRM or not

I have the accommodations of someone living in the 21st century (computer and internet) so NEITHER of them hassle me

You left out a requirement:

1) Computer
2) Internet
3) Working EA server

[Raygereio]

TwistedComplex wrote...
I think it's hilarious you think the devs are behind the DRM.
That gave me a good chuckle. YEAH, David Gaider, LEAD WRITER of DA2, why don't you explain something to us that isn't even remotely in your department huh? WE DEMAND ANSWERS

Oh dear lord, I'm just reminded of the horrors of BioShock's release. Even the friggin Demo had the DRM on it. When the BioShock forums turned into the first 30 minutes of Saving Private Ryan and the poor communityreps of 2K games (who did not have a clue what the hell was going on, let alone what they were talking about) couldn't calm things down, 2K games grabbed the lead designer and dumped him on the forum to appease the masses (and to share the blame).
It was painful to read the poor man's posts as he tried to defend the DRM as orderd by his overlords.

[TwistedComplex]

Eurypterid wrote...

TwistedComplex wrote...

N3n wrote...

Inarborat wrote...

DRM doesn't work. When will publishers learn...

Who knows maybe one day. Until then they will treat us paying customers like thieves.

That's incredibly misleading

That's like saying wal-mart treats customers like theives cause they use scanners on the enterances and exits to protect their investment

You need proof you bought something at a store, likewise you need proof you bought DA2

That's incredibly misleading. Wal-mart doesn't phone you every few days to demand proof you bought your merchandise. I have proof I nought my games. The proof is the discs, manuals, boxes, and receipts. I shouldn't be required to connect to a server every few days to keep proving it.

TwistedComplex wrote...


Actually my anology was correct

Every time you go to wal-mart, you're scanned

Every so often when you play DA2, you're scanned

Really? You're scanned every time you go into Wal-mart to be sure you're the guy that actually bought that copy of ? Your analogy is completely off the mark.


This scheme, IMO, is just 'feature creep'. I'm surprised how many people are saying "Hey, no big deal", given the number that were upset about ME1's proposed DRM, which is almost identical to this. Accept this and what happens for the next game? On-line checks every 2 days or every day? Then what about the next game? Welcome to Ubisoft's always on-line requirement. No thanks. I draw the line here.

Phoning me is an inconvinience

Having an internet connection is not



If you don't like the DRM download a crack after you buy the game

It's really not this hard to comprehend

[Ryzaki]

StingingVelvet wrote...

TwistedComplex wrote...

I really don't care if a game has DRM or not

I have the accommodations of someone living in the 21st century (computer and internet) so NEITHER of them hassle me

You left out a requirement:

1) Computer
2) Internet
3) Working EA server

The bolded is the one that inspires concern.

Didn't EA just shutdown a whole bunch of game servers? 

[ejoslin]

TwistedComplex wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

I don't get how you jump to THAT conclusion.  I said nothing of the sort and suggested a disk check as an alternative to the online authentication thing happening over and over.  

DRM does not keep their investment secure.  It encourages piracy.

Well if that's the case why not get rid of DRM altogether?

Your posts are absolutely schizophrenic

"DRM hurts the customer!"

"Just have this kind of DRM"

"DRM does nothing!"

"Have a disk check as DRM"

"DRM encourages pirating!"

Can you make up your friggin mind please?

Talk about twisting by leaving out just about everything I said.  DRM does encourage piracy, but if a producer insists on using it, they should use a type of DRM that does not hurt the paying customer.

So yes, DRM encourages piracy and I explained why -- when the DRM actually prevents someone from playing a game or damages their games, people who want to play the game are encouraged to get it illegally, even people who would normally buy the game legally.  However, a simple form that prevents a couple of kids from sharing a game and using it at the same time can be done simply with a disk check.  

Modifié par ejoslin, 01 février 2011 - 04:54 .

[Leoroc]

How about letting me attach my nonsteam purchase to steam after the fact like fallout new vegas?

[Vizkos]

StingingVelvet wrote...

TwistedComplex wrote...

I really don't care if a game has DRM or not

I have the accommodations of someone living in the 21st century (computer and internet) so NEITHER of them hassle me

You left out a requirement:

1) Computer
2) Internet
3) Working EA server

1) You need to pirate games anyway
2) You need to pirate games anyway
3) I'll give you that one, atleast for the first day of release.

I just love how everyone is complaining about the one time internet connection for validation, like they never have internet ever.  Fact is, most everyone has a 24/7 internet connection with high network reliability.  If you don't, then you're getting ripped off by your ISP.

Every single argument people make against DRM sounds like a broken record.  The ONLY DRM argument I have mildly supported, as atleast a little bit of logic, was presented among the trolls in the argument against Ubisoft DRM.

Leoroc wrote...

How about letting me attach my nonsteam purchase to steam after the fact like fallout new vegas?

This only works if the whole game in general supports steamworks, I.E. forcing you to register it through Steam.  Only a few companies have done that with certain games.  RUSE, Call of Duty Black Ops, Fallout NV, Mafia II, to name a few.  EA hasn't done it yet to date, so only Steam purchases are integrated into Steam.

Modifié par Prosthetics511, 01 février 2011 - 04:57 .