976 réponses à ce sujet

[Seifz]

DanaScu wrote...

Seifz wrote...
Seriously.  The quality of support shown by BioWare since the EA takeover is quite poor compared to their previous efforts.  DA:O is still all sorts of broken.

Besides, they still haven't patched the insane DRM out of ME1 and it's been almost three years, now.  I don't see why anyone thinks they'll patch this out in a timely fashion.

That's because when Bioware was still Bioware and not EABioware, they handled their own support. When the first major uproar started about the "EA phone home every 5-10 days or your legal copy of the game shuts down/are you a pirate yet" drm, Chris asked what could be done to improve things. One of the first and most mentioned was DO NOT LET EA HANDLE THE TECH SUPPORT. Chris pointed out that Jason Barlow was one person who did whatever tech support he could, and EA had TEAMS of techs to do support. In turn, multiple posters pointed out just how bad the tech support from EA was/is if we all were thrilled and satisfied with what Jason could do, and wanted him to continue doing so, instead of the clueless read from a script no matter what the person says techs. Which means that EA's tech support still continues its finest tradition of sucking big time.

I was writing more about post-launch support in the form of patches and extra (free) content, but fair enough.  The one experience that I had with EA tech support regarding Rock Band was less than optimal, but not so bad that I was unsatisfied.  I've never had to contact EA tech support in regards to a BioWare game.

I think ME was the first game released by EABioware. Even though the game has been released on Steam, and has been out for over two years, they still haven't patched out the drm for the retail version. I hope no one is going to hold their breath for a no-drm patch for a new game.

Again, I'd like the sunset provisions included in the EULA so that they're guaranteed to us.  If that doesn't happen, it's best to just assume that no such provisions exist.

[ToJKa1]

Deadmac wrote...
Since the consumer exchanges money for a product, the consumer now owns the product in which is purchased. When I bought the game "Dragon Age: Origins", BioWare's ownership over my copy expires. Regardless about the legal notices they release with the game, I now own the game and the privacy to use it as to how I see fit.

Again, do you have to register a toaster oven, lamp, pillows, and sneakers before using them?

There is a difference between buying software and products. A product you do own, software you do not. When you buy software, you are really only buying a license to use it, which is limited by the terms of the EULA. Nowadays there exists technology to enforce the EULA, such as Steam. The medium (the discs) and packaging are products that you do own.

Whether the developer has the right to monitor if the terms of the EULA are breached is another question.

Modifié par ToJKa1, 01 février 2011 - 08:10 .

[Deadmac]

Fernando Melo wrote...
If i get the game early from a store, I can't play?
Correct.  While it is becoming more common that e-retailers will try to ship games ahead of the launch dates so it arrives with you for launch day, and some retailers will break street dates and sell early, we are still obligated to observe the official launch dates across the various regions. 

I love this answer. So... Why buy the preorders? Since the consumer cannot use the game on day one, why bother buying the game in the first place?

[AlanC9]

Deadmac wrote...

Here are a few questions for everyone...
~ Why is it worth buying any game if you are going to be harassed by the developer and publisher?

~ Could companies who use excessive DRM be sued for consumer harassment?

~ Why would you buy a game from a company in which utilizes software, which allows them to intrude in any significant way into your lfie?

That depends on the definition of "harassment" and "significant intrusion."

~ Where does my consumer privacy from the developer and publisher begin?

I can't imagine anything that the developer and publisher would want to know about me that I would mind them knowing.

Since the consumer exchanges money for a product, the consumer now owns the product in which is purchased. When I bought the game "Dragon Age: Origins", BioWare's ownership over my copy expires. Regardless about the legal notices they release with the game, I now own the game and the privacy to use it as to how I see fit.

Are you talking morally, or legally?

[Killjoy Cutter]

ToJKa1 wrote...

Deadmac wrote...
Since the consumer exchanges money for a product, the consumer now owns the product in which is purchased. When I bought the game "Dragon Age: Origins", BioWare's ownership over my copy expires. Regardless about the legal notices they release with the game, I now own the game and the privacy to use it as to how I see fit.

Again, do you have to register a toaster oven, lamp, pillows, and sneakers before using them?

There is a difference between buying software and products. A product you do own, software you do not. When you buy software, you are really only buying a license to use it, which is limited by the terms of the EULA.

At least, that's the line that the public has been fed...

[Seifz]

ToJKa1 wrote...

Deadmac wrote...
Since the consumer exchanges money for a product, the consumer now owns the product in which is purchased. When I bought the game "Dragon Age: Origins", BioWare's ownership over my copy expires. Regardless about the legal notices they release with the game, I now own the game and the privacy to use it as to how I see fit.

Again, do you have to register a toaster oven, lamp, pillows, and sneakers before using them?

There is a difference between buying software and products. A product you do own, software you do not. When you buy software, you are really only buying a license to use it, which is limited by the terms of the EULA. Nowadays there exists technology to enforce the EULA, such as Steam. The medium (the discs) and packaging are products that you do own.

Most EULAs contain provisions that violate Fair Use laws and other consumer protection laws, such as those against making personal archival copies.  In addition, just about every EULA violates contract law.  I don't think that 99% of EULAs would stand up in court, if challenged.

Since this is the Internet, I must mention that I am not your lawyer and this is not legal advice.

Modifié par Seifz, 01 février 2011 - 08:13 .

[Deadmac]

ToJKa1 wrote...

There is a difference between buying software and products. A product you do own, software you do not. When you buy software, you are really only buying a license to use it, which is limited by the terms of the EULA.

Then... Why give a company money to buy a product, which you will never truely own anyway? When I go to the store to buy any product (games, clothes, or movies), I own them regardless about what the company says.

[Killjoy Cutter]

StingingVelvet wrote...

bzombo wrote...

StingingVelvet wrote...

bzombo wrote...

1. drm sucks, but it's here to stay. if there was zero benefit to drm, companies would scrap it. their bottom line is their profit, not making buyers suffer, so on some level it works.

It works at making shareholders feel better, or corporate executives feel better.  That's about it.

let's say your statement is fact. that is the point of a business: to make its shareholders happy. if ea gets good sales and makes shareholders happy to see piracy is being combatted, ea execs have done their job. all i said is it works on some level. if that level is assuaging shareholders' fears of pc game pirating, then it has accomplished something. i don't like drm, but i see how there's a need for it.

That's all well and good but I care more about my consumer rights than I do shareholders.

Bingo.

How about basic privacy, as well?  Does EA really have any right to know that you, in particular, are playing one of their game, or that someone on your computer is? 

No, they don't.

[Seifz]

Deadmac wrote...

ToJKa1 wrote...

There is a difference between buying software and products. A product you do own, software you do not. When you buy software, you are really only buying a license to use it, which is limited by the terms of the EULA.

Then... Why give a company money to buy a product, which you will never truely own anyway? When I go to the store to buy any product (games, clothes, or movies), I own them regardless about what the company says.

Careful, there.  Movies also contain DRM protection, violate Fair Use laws, etc.  Technically, you're also only licensed to view the movie on the disc under certain conditions.  Now that we're seeing Blu-Ray Live and players connected to the Internet, I wouldn't be surprised to start seeing phone home DRM in future versions of the Blu-Ray standard or in whatever standard replaces it.

I agree that you should own any product that you purchase and that you should have the rights to do with it as you will.  Sadly, the giant media corporations don't.

[Torhagen]

The Problem is that nowadays Salecharts are mostly a sold Disk chart which is fine for consoles for a real comparison however all digital sales for PC need to be factored in so that myth of PC sales are pretty much just a bonus finally stops

[kgersen]

Kandid001 wrote...
edit: To those upset about online activation: While they didn't announce to do so, they may consider removing the online activation in a future patch, like some games which toned down the DRM a while after release.

Until now EA never removed ANY online activation DRM, not even after several years, so it's not something you should hold you breath for.

[Deadmac]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...
Bingo.

How about basic privacy, as well? Does EA really have any right to know that you, in particular, are playing one of their game, or that someone on your computer is?

No, they don't.

I agree. I am unsure about your age group, so I hope you are familar with my next reply.

When I was growing up in the late 80s and early 90s, people use to piggyback video cassette and music cassette recorders. Double cassette stereos were available everywhere. As one side played the music cassette, the other side would make a recording of what is being played. When people were creating copies of movies, they would hook up two VHS players on the same television. As one player was obviously playing, the other one was recording the movie or show.

It is not too much unlike what is happening now. What has changed is that many-many more people can get the recording. Instead of innocently giving your friend a copy, software pirates make the copy available to the masses. Game companies should be encouraging friends to hand off their software to friends, but prevent them from giving the software to the masses (or a wide range of peers).

Modifié par Deadmac, 01 février 2011 - 08:29 .

[Layn]

i really need to know how long the "login verification after a period of days" is. if i have too much traffic in a month i get blocked from the net for the rest of the month. it'd suck if that means every once in a while i become unable to play because of this.

"
What about sunset/EA gone/20years from now?
There
are sunset plans in place for all our titles.  Each one can be
different, but most common solution is that the online requirement would
be patched out.
"

i've always disliked this solution. what if the patch disappears because the game is so old (never had that problem so far though)? i like having everything i need to play right here with me

Modifié par Crrash, 01 février 2011 - 08:31 .

[AlanC9]

Seifz wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Seifz wrote...
BioWare might not have an immediate use for my name and address, but that doesn't stop them from selling it to someone else.  If you think that doesn't happen with large companies, think again.  Thus far BioWare/EA hasn't done it (to my knowledge), but that could change any day and I'd be powerless to stop it.  Even worse, their database could be compromised and the information stolen from them.  This happens much more often than online retailers would like to admit.

Sure, but... so what? What happens then?

Wait, you don't see the obvious problems with unauthorized people getting my name and address?  Are you serious or is this one of those trolling things?

I probably shouldn't have granted the premise that Bio has or wants our real names and addresses in the first place, actually.

But let's keep going. Someone has my name and address. So frigging what? They can get that by looking in the phone book. Now they know that one of those people in the phone book plays DA2. The very worst thing I can see coming out of this is that some of my junk mail might actually be worth reading for once.

[Deadmac]

AlanC9 wrote...
But let's keep going. Someone has my name and address. So frigging what? They can get that by looking in the phone book.

Unture. My number is unlisted; therefore, I don't show up in a phone book.

[aradin24]

Sounds like a pretty good DRM solution, especially compared to others we've seen recently from other publishers and developers.

[Seifz]

AlanC9 wrote...

Seifz wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Seifz wrote...
BioWare might not have an immediate use for my name and address, but that doesn't stop them from selling it to someone else.  If you think that doesn't happen with large companies, think again.  Thus far BioWare/EA hasn't done it (to my knowledge), but that could change any day and I'd be powerless to stop it.  Even worse, their database could be compromised and the information stolen from them.  This happens much more often than online retailers would like to admit.

Sure, but... so what? What happens then?

Wait, you don't see the obvious problems with unauthorized people getting my name and address?  Are you serious or is this one of those trolling things?

I probably shouldn't have granted the premise that Bio has or wants our real names and addresses in the first place, actually.

Possibly not, but the alternative is that you have to grant me the fact that BioWare/EA is collecting unknown information that could be even worse than my name and address.

But let's keep going. Someone has my name and address. So frigging what? They can get that by looking in the phone book. Now they know that one of those people in the phone book plays DA2. The very worst thing I can see coming out of this is that some of my junk mail might actually be worth reading for once.

1.  It's possible to remain unlisted in the phone book.  This is especially true if you don't have a landline phone.  In addition, you need either my name or my address to get the other unless you scan the entire book.  Obviously large companies can do just that, but there are laws in place to prevent them from mass mailing whatever whenever.

2.  I don't want anyone selling my information without my consent.  That they're making money off of information that I had to provide to play a game that I already purchased is infuriating.  That's my information.  I shouldn't ever have to give it to anyone to play a computer game and nobody should be allowed to make money off of it.  There are already enough companies selling my personal information (e.g. every bank) and I'd like to keep that list as small as possible.  If anything, we need more laws to protect us from these practices.  We certainly shouldn't accept them as okay.

3.  Junk mail is not welcome.  It's equivalent to spam e-mail.  I don't want it, I don't need it, and I'd prefer that the USPS not have to sort it and deliver it.

4.  Even if EA never sells my personal information (as far as I know, they haven't), that doesn't mean that someone won't get it anyway.  A lost laptop, a renegade employee, or an outside attack could easily put this information on the Internet or in the hands of criminals.  Even worse, that information could be linked to our online handles.  If you don't think that's a problem, read up on what happened when Blizzard threatened to display real names on their forums.  Just names, minds you.

Again, we don't know what information they're planning to collect.  We need to know so that we can make an informed decision.

[Royas]

This is exactly the same DRM that was proposed for the first Mass Effect. It wasn't acceptable then, it's not acceptable now. I'm deeply disappointed in Bioware and EA, as I was really looking forward to Dragon Age 2. Now, I'll have to wait for it to hit the lowest price bargain bins out there, because I will NOT pay AAA prices for a rental.



As usual, the gaming industry seems hellbent on damaging the only people that should count in their books... the customer. Take a page from Stardock, stop worrying about the bloody pirates and market to the paying customer, it'll work better in the long run.

[poster55]

 In a perfect world game devs would stop wasting all this money and time on these stupid DRMs that do absolutely nothing against piracy. When I say absolutely nothing I mean zero, zip, zilch, nada. The DRM is completely stripped out minutes after the games hit the shelves and put on the internet. The only people that DRM effects are the people actually paying for the games.

Think about your customers Bioware. Instead of focusing on DRM that DECREASES your customer experience, focus on adding incentives and bonuses to having a legitimate copy! The best source of 'DRM' combat I have ever seen came from stardock with galactic civilizations. The reason being, there was nothing left to hinder the customer experience, however if you registered with their site with a legitimate key tied to your account, you gained access to all kinds of bonus material for actually purchasing the game. 

Dragon Age 2 could easily be done in a similar fashion, and I can almost guarantee it would make both your customers, and your potential customers a lot more happy with your solution.

[AlanC9]

I said "my name and address," not "Deadmac's name and address."

[Dr. wonderful]

So this was the big reveal?



Meh, already preorder the game for PS3, Now I wait:

[Iregart]

poster55 wrote...

 In a perfect world game devs would stop
wasting all this money and time on these stupid DRMs that do absolutely
nothing against piracy. When I say absolutely nothing I mean zero, zip,
zilch, nada. The DRM is completely stripped out minutes after the games
hit the shelves and put on the internet. The only people that DRM
effects are the people actually paying for the games.

Think about
your customers Bioware. Instead of focusing on DRM that DECREASES your
customer experience, focus on adding incentives and bonuses to having a
legitimate copy! The best source of 'DRM' combat I have ever seen came
from stardock with galactic civilizations. The reason being, there was
nothing left to hinder the customer experience, however if you
registered with their site with a legitimate key tied to your account,
you gained access to all kinds of bonus material for actually purchasing
the game. 

Dragon Age 2 could easily be done in a similar
fashion, and I can almost guarantee it would make both your customers,
and your potential customers a lot more happy with your solution.

This would be one solution I would like to see .

Modifié par Iregart, 01 février 2011 - 08:47 .

[hdx100]

I am really dspted from this drm i preffer disk check

I think EA dont think about pc gamers who dont have an internet connection.

I dont know why all this protection for only a gmae and and after all the pirates will release a crack for it.

I hope EA members read this.

[nijnij]

Chris Priestly wrote...
Steam versions use Steam DRM, no other DRM is added.

Will Steam DRM be the same as for Origins' Steam version then -which was, if I remember correctly : buy the game online, download it, maybe authentify it with EA (not sure bout that one) then offline mode and you're good to go ?