976 réponses à ce sujet

[kgersen]

aradin24 wrote...
Sounds like a pretty good DRM solution, especially compared to others we've seen recently from other publishers and developers.

Like which one ?

Most DRM used in others recently released games are either using Steam or online activation DRM, I don't really see how having an online activation + recurring online checks every unspecified amount of day is really much "better". Of course there is Ubi but it's more an exception rather than the rule.

 

 

Modifié par kgersen, 01 février 2011 - 08:53 .

[AlanC9]

Seifz wrote...
1.  It's possible to remain unlisted in the phone book.  This is especially true if you don't have a landline phone.  In addition, you need either my name or my address to get the other unless you scan the entire book.  Obviously large companies can do just that, but there are laws in place to prevent them from mass mailing whatever whenever.

Scan the entire book? For what, exactly, would they be scanning?

And sure, you can keep yourself out of the book. I'm still looking for a reason why. There are good reasons not to have a landline, but staying out of the book isn't one.

2.  I don't want anyone selling my information without my consent.  That they're making money off of information that I had to provide to play a game that I already purchased is infuriating.  That's my information.  I shouldn't ever have to give it to anyone to play a computer game and nobody should be allowed to make money off of it.  There are already enough companies selling my personal information (e.g. every bank) and I'd like to keep that list as small as possible.  If anything, we need more laws to protect us from these practices.  We certainly shouldn't accept them as okay.

So this is just a principle with you? OK, but then we don't have anything to say to each other on this point.

3.  Junk mail is not welcome.  It's equivalent to spam e-mail.  I don't want it, I don't need it, and I'd prefer that the USPS not have to sort it and deliver it.

But this only would get worse if EA collects addresses, which they don't do,  and decides to actually use them for mailing ads, which they also don't do, or sells them to some other gaming company that advertises via direct mail, and I can't think of any other game companies that use direct mail either.

4.  Even if EA never sells my personal information (as far as I know, they haven't), that doesn't mean that someone won't get it anyway.  A lost laptop, a renegade employee, or an outside attack could easily put this information on the Internet or in the hands of criminals.  Even worse, that information could be linked to our online handles.  If you don't think that's a problem, read up on what happened when Blizzard threatened to display real names on their forums.  Just names, minds you.

Again, what if they do? What happens? Someone knows your real name and that you've played DA2?

Modifié par AlanC9, 01 février 2011 - 09:03 .

[nijnij]

I don't mean to sound like a bootlicker but I'm pretty sure there are already threads discussing DA2's DRM policy ; this one was created to answer questions but complaints and arguments are spamming the actual questions. Sorry to be so orthodox !

[Layn]

poster55 wrote...

 In a perfect world game devs would stop wasting all this money and time on these stupid DRMs that do absolutely nothing against piracy. When I say absolutely nothing I mean zero, zip, zilch, nada. The DRM is completely stripped out minutes after the games hit the shelves and put on the internet. The only people that DRM effects are the people actually paying for the games.

so true. just look at Ubisoft which has the talent to come up with some of the most annoying DRM solutions ever. each attempt was cracked. even the latest "always on" solution. and heck, often it ends up being more straightforward and less annoying using the crack than without. give up on stopping pirates and stop restricting us legitimate players

[Seifz]

@AlanC9:  Your quote tags are broken, so I'll just make a general reply.

My point about scanning the entire phonebook was that a company would have to do exactly that to get my name and address unless they already knew one or the other.  You mentioned that they could easily obtain this information from the phonebook, but that's simply not true.

If you don't think that my name is enough information to do damage, you really ought to read about what happened to a few Blizzard employees when they tried to display real names on their game forums.

Of course, we don't actually know what information EA plans to collect.  You mentioned names and addresses, not I.  I want to know what information they plan to collect before I decide whether to cancel my pre-order.  I can't imagine why you would oppose me in this.

[AlanC9]

nijnij wrote...

I don't mean to sound like a bootlicker but I'm pretty sure there are already threads discussing DA2's DRM policy ; this one was created to answer questions but complaints and arguments are spamming the actual questions. Sorry to be so orthodox !

Well, there isn't really any question left to answer. They're not going to tell us how long the period between checks is at this time, so what's left?

[nijnij]

AlanC9 wrote...

nijnij wrote...

I don't mean to sound like a bootlicker but I'm pretty sure there are already threads discussing DA2's DRM policy ; this one was created to answer questions but complaints and arguments are spamming the actual questions. Sorry to be so orthodox !

Well, there isn't really any question left to answer. They're not going to tell us how long the period between checks is at this time, so what's left?

I actually just asked one about Steam.

[AlanC9]

Seifz wrote...

My point about scanning the entire phonebook was that a company would have to do exactly that to get my name and address unless they already knew one or the other.  You mentioned that they could easily obtain this information from the phonebook, but that's simply not true.

Scanning the phonebook isn't all that hard, actually. It's not very much data as such things go. But of course, you'd need some reason to know that you had the right name once you did scan it. My point was that there's nothing secret about our names and addresses -- the only secret you're trying to preserve is that this particular person ITRW plays DA2. I'm still looking for a reason to be scared of this.

If you don't think that my name is enough information to do damage, you really ought to read about what happened to a few Blizzard employees when they tried to display real names on their game forums.

That tells me that people were concerned about it. It is not an argument that those concerns were reasonable, or even rational. I'd be just fine with Bio making our real names available here, actually.

Of course, we don't actually know what information EA plans to collect.  You mentioned names and addresses, not I.  I want to know what information they plan to collect before I decide whether to cancel my pre-order.  I can't imagine why you would oppose me in this.

Oppose? I'm not opposed to you asking for info; I don't personally care what you want from EA. I'm just curious.

And if names and addresses aren'tr what you're worried about, what are you worried about.?

[StingingVelvet]

Royas wrote...

This is exactly the same DRM that was proposed for the first Mass Effect. It wasn't acceptable then, it's not acceptable now.

And yet a ton of people seem to think this time it's okay, I guess because we have seen worse in the years since the Mass Effect DRM hoopla?

Christ, I remember when Half-Life 2 introduced Steam to the world and people were super pissed off about needing the internet to install and tying their game to an account.  Now I see most people asking if they could please have that feature.

The mind boggles.

In any event, I'll be purchasing Dragon Age 2 and making a moral and legal backup copy for my own personal use and if anyone from Bioware has an issue with that I urge them to explain it to me.

Modifié par StingingVelvet, 01 février 2011 - 09:33 .

[AlanC9]

nijnij wrote...

I actually just asked one about Steam.

So you did. Are there different kinds of DRM associated with Steam in the first place? I always thought there was just the one, but I only use Steam with games that have to use it.

[Holy_Shielder]

I cannot believe they want to try to incorporate this type of security again, didn't they learn from past experience? I've pretty much read this entire threat just to see the overall reaction, and I can't believe how fast this thread has grown in such a short time, that in itself just goes to show how big of an issue this is going to be.



I agree with a majority of people on here, whats the point of it have to re-authorize at all? Im all fine and good with an initial internet connection to install the game (even though i still doing like or agree having to do that, but i can live with it), but are we somehow transforming into a pirate after we have PAID for it? I know disk check has always still been as issue with gamers, but I would gladly choose that over a DRM system. It still proves I have the actual game in my possession, and its being re-authorized at my, the CUSTOMER'S convenience.



I think people, including me, are more concerned of the FACT that you have to complete this process of re-authorizing that the issue of having an internet connection, if you get what I mean? If someone said I had to do this for anything I bought, but through other means, say by phone or even having to bring the product to them to show them its original (which is more or less what we have to do) I would just not bother buying it at all, which is actually making me consider canceling my preorder . . . Not to say that requiring internet to re-authenticate isn't an issue, sometimes I travel and stay at my grandma's for long periods of time, and she doesn't have the net, so now am I not going to be able to play it then?



I know this is just going to be one voice in a chorus of the same thing being said, but the more this thread grows, the more EA will realize they are just going to start a customer war.

[Leoroc]

Seifz wrote...

@AlanC9:  Your quote tags are broken, so I'll just make a general reply.

My point about scanning the entire phonebook was that a company would have to do exactly that to get my name and address unless they already knew one or the other.  You mentioned that they could easily obtain this information from the phonebook, but that's simply not true.

If you don't think that my name is enough information to do damage, you really ought to read about what happened to a few Blizzard employees when they tried to display real names on their game forums.

Of course, we don't actually know what information EA plans to collect.  You mentioned names and addresses, not I.  I want to know what information they plan to collect before I decide whether to cancel my pre-order.  I can't imagine why you would oppose me in this.

I found your name (S.J.O.) and birth year (1986) and that you went to Worcester Polytechnic Institute in about 5 minutes on google.

[-Zorph-]

Atomatic1 wrote...

-Zorph- wrote...

So after initial install, you don't need the disk to play anymore? Just the online checks?

Also, sounds like the Steam version would be easier to deal with. Am I right in believe this?

After installing you can set steam to offline mode and never have to worry about an internet connection.

Unfortunately I meant to say, I ordered the SE boxed version so I don't have the Steam verison. How does the disk check work? And I am not worried about the internet connection I have a 40 mb/s download 10 mb/s upload 24/7-365.

[Kandid001]

kgersen wrote...

Kandid001 wrote...
edit: To those upset about online activation: While they didn't announce to do so, they may consider removing the online activation in a future patch, like some games which toned down the DRM a while after release.

Until now EA never removed ANY online activation DRM, not even after several years, so it's not something you should hold you breath for.

I may have worded it poorly, but I was talking about this:

http://activate.ea.com/deauthorize/

[hawat333]

Now that's a more 'makes sense' DRM than some of those I've encountered in past few months.

However I'm not too fond of the login idea, remember when DA:O came out, I don't know about you guys, but every time I tried to log in in the first few days, I've got a "disconnected" or "connection error" or "whatever, server down" message.

If it's required to play the game, they better get some sturdy servers for the task with a high capacity.

[Belhawk]

i agree that the servers had better be sturdy enough to handle peak loads so that no one is denied running the game because of a server log jam.

[Reaverwind]

Belhawk wrote...

i agree that the servers had better be sturdy enough to handle peak loads so that no one is denied running the game because of a server log jam.

And if EA/Bioware starts charging a monthly fee to guarantee that service?

[Belhawk]

they shouldn't, they are the ones pushing the drm.

[Arcanon7]

You know they will crack the game anyway right? It's a battle no videogame company can win!

[addiction21]

Reaverwind wrote...

Belhawk wrote...

i agree that the servers had better be sturdy enough to handle peak loads so that no one is denied running the game because of a server log jam.

And if EA/Bioware starts charging a monthly fee to guarantee that service?

What if they sent cake to everybody that purchased the game? See I can make hypothetical situations up that have zero bearing on the actual discussion also.

[dune1976]

How typical that Bioware sycophants are supporting this DRM scheme. If you think that this DRM model is to help prevent pirates you're sorely mistaken and a fool. This has been implemented to circumvent the "first sale" legal doctrine that says that once you buy something, it's yours and is still alive and well. That's what this draconian DRM is about. It has nothing to do with pirates but squashing your legal right to sell your used copy. I have a Master's degree in software engineering from the University of Texas and there are people out there who aren't as educated in this field as I am and they will be cracking this game in a day.



I simply refuse to support publishers who treat their customers like excrement and I encourage all of you to do the same.

[Fadook]

This is all so baffling to me. People rage against DRM in games and the majority of developers/publishers ignore them. Now one developer lets you remove disc checks, install the game on as many computers as you want and says there'll be no SecuRom. In return, all they ask is that you log in when you install the game and every few days if you're playing offline. How is that so much to ask? Please name these places where people can legally buy a copy of Dragon Age but are geuninely going to have problems accessing the internet.

[Seifz]

AlanC9 wrote...

Seifz wrote...

If you don't think that my name is enough information to do damage, you really ought to read about what happened to a few Blizzard employees when they tried to display real names on their game forums.

That tells me that people were concerned about it. It is not an argument that those concerns were reasonable, or even rational. I'd be just fine with Bio making our real names available here, actually.

Apparently, you didn't actually bother to read about what happened.  Here's what happened to Mr. Whipple:  http://www.urlesque....ld-of-warcraft/.  There are other obvious privacy concerns that applied there but not here, but a name alone is enough to cause trouble if you desire to.

Oppose? I'm not opposed to you asking for info; I don't personally care what you want from EA. I'm just curious.

And if names and addresses aren'tr what you're worried about, what are you worried about.?

There's tons of personal information on my PC.  What programs am I running?  How are they configured?  What websites have I visited recently?  Etc.

How could anyone possibly be comfortable with EA transferring unknown information to their servers?  Do you really trust EA that much?  We're talking about EA, here.  They've hardly been the example of a "Good Company" in the past.

Modifié par Seifz, 01 février 2011 - 10:25 .

[ejoslin]

Fadook wrote...

This is all so baffling to me. People rage against DRM in games and the majority of developers/publishers ignore them. Now one developer lets you remove disc checks, install the game on as many computers as you want and says there'll be no SecuRom. In return, all they ask is that you log in when you install the game and every few days if you're playing offline. How is that so much to ask? Please name these places where people can legally buy a copy of Dragon Age but are geuninely going to have problems accessing the internet.

Many rural parts of the US. People who use their cell phones instead of broad band for internet access in more urban areas of the US.  People who travel and don't like paying $20 a night for hotel internet access.

Edit:  I can't get over how many people think it's a reasonable expectation to log on to play a single player game, tbh.  And who apparently didn't end up with their DAO DLCs breaking because of authentication issues.

Modifié par ejoslin, 01 février 2011 - 10:21 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

AlanC9 wrote...

And sure, you can keep yourself out of the book. I'm still looking for a reason why. There are good reasons not to have a landline, but staying out of the book isn't one.

I know that the phonebook is often sold as a marketing resource.

So, I'm listed in the phone book under a fake name.  With my landline, I could just not be listed, but I'd have to pay for that (because I'd be costing the phone company money, as they wouldn't be able to sell my information).  But I can be listed under any name I want, and that costs me nothing.

Every couple of years I change it.  For a while I was Dieter Montague.