976 réponses à ce sujet

[AbsolutGrndZer0]

Lord Moths wrote...

And the consoles have drm. too?

No, not any more than just having to have the disc in the drive, which is standard for consoles.

[ManiacalEvil]

Synny204 wrote...

If you purchase a boxed version and then activate the CD key over Steam, will it use the Steam-DRM or the built in non-steam version?

Steam only.

[Kloreep]

AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote...

Synny204 wrote...

If you purchase a boxed version and then activate the CD key over Steam, will it use the Steam-DRM or the built in non-steam version?

Can do DO that?

Only if the publisher/party negotiating with Valve makes a special arrangement. It's happened before, but I don't think it's ever been done for a Bioware game.

Given BW have said absolutely nothing about this, even as they announce that Steam is the only version getting a different DRM system from the standard, I'd imagine it's safe to assume it's not going to happen for DA2.

[ManiacalEvil]

sevalaricgirl wrote...

ManiacalEvil wrote...

AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote...

Fadook wrote...

This is all so baffling to me. People rage against DRM in games and the majority of developers/publishers ignore them. Now one developer lets you remove disc checks, install the game on as many computers as you want and says there'll be no SecuRom. In return, all they ask is that you log in when you install the game and every few days if you're playing offline. How is that so much to ask? Please name these places where people can legally buy a copy of Dragon Age but are geuninely going to have problems accessing the internet.

Millitary camps in Iran and Afghanistan (or anywhere else troops are deployed during war times).  This has already been said many times.  When they are not actively out there doing the war, some soldiers wish to play video games, but they are not able to go online very often (if they were, they'd do a LOT more video conferencing with their families than they are able to do)... so if they can't get online for six months, they can't play Dragon Age 2 even if they legally purchased it? This isn't fair to those that fight for our freedoms.

Yeah, totally unfair on those who fight for our misery. They knew what they signed up for, which i guess didn't include internet access. Pretty sure those who truly fight for our freedoms make their lives a whole lot darker than the lack of internet access. I find it difficult to feel sad about the military.

Sheesh, you're an ass.

Glad I please.

[wolfsite]

AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote...

Synny204 wrote...

If you purchase a boxed version and then activate the CD key over Steam, will it use the Steam-DRM or the built in non-steam version?

Can do DO that?

No, this only works if the Retail version of the game has Steamworks enabled into the product.  It normally will say this on the back of the box.

[StingingVelvet]

DadeLeviathan wrote...

DRM is bad, yes. But companies like EA are not going to get rid of DRM easily. Can't we all accept that this particular DRM is at least a step (If a small one) In the right direction, and move on?

Why would I agree to that when this DRM is worse than most?

[Synny204]

AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote...

Synny204 wrote...

If you purchase a boxed version and then activate the CD key over Steam, will it use the Steam-DRM or the built in non-steam version?

Can do DO that?

For many games you can.

DA:O is not one of them, I'm hoping DA2 will allow you to do that.

https://support.stea...=7480-WUSF-3601

[Lord Moths]

I hope that Mass Effect 3 and others change this politcs

[Seifz]

ManiacalEvil wrote...

AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote...

I said in an earlier post that I know video game pirates,and I talked to one of them about this. He actually told me that most of the time he does purchase the games, however he also pirates them because of the DRM restrictions. I'm not saying either way whether I would consider doing the same, but I shouldn't have to consider resorting to piracy to play my legally purchased copy of a game without having to jump through hoops.

People not willing to pay for something aren't going to do so. DRM does not help stop video game piracy any more than it does movie or music piracy. DRM only inconveniences the legitimate paying customers. Period.

Yeah, and companies like BioWare or EA would totally still do it. It is their desire to inconvenience consumer while gaining nothing, right?

Yes, they would.  They need to appear to be fighting against piracy even if those efforts are futile.  That's how business works.  If you don't think that's true, look at the copy protection for DVD, Blu-Ray, etc.  Are those stopping piracy?  Hell no.  Are they continuously adding new layers of useless protection anyway?  Definitely.

Look, there's nothing novel about this DRM.  It's all been done before.  There will be a cracked game on your favorite torrent site within 48 hours of release.  Will the DRM have been effective?  Certainly, it will have prevented the "pirates" from playing the game for 48 hours and it might have very slightly increased box sales on those first two days.  Is it worth inconveniencing all of their legitimate customers?  Maybe for the money counters at EA, but I certainly don't see it that way at all.

The OP asked us not to debate the pros and cons of DRM, so I won't say anything further.  I and others have posted numerous legitimate questions already that haven't been answered, so it'd be nice to get an update.  Anyone?

[StingingVelvet]

AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote...

Lord Moths wrote...

And the consoles have drm. too?

No, not any more than just having to have the disc in the drive, which is standard for consoles.

Consoles sort-of have inherrent DRM in that you need to use particular hardware.  Also any patches come through an online service which may not function down the line, and DLC does have activation account-based DRM.  Since consoles are a closed system these measures are very hard or impossible to circumvent.

In the end since the PC is an open platform its arguably got the least DRM of any modern gaming device, despite these attempts to stop that.

[ManiacalEvil]

Seifz wrote...

ManiacalEvil wrote...

AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote...

I said in an earlier post that I know video game pirates,and I talked to one of them about this. He actually told me that most of the time he does purchase the games, however he also pirates them because of the DRM restrictions. I'm not saying either way whether I would consider doing the same, but I shouldn't have to consider resorting to piracy to play my legally purchased copy of a game without having to jump through hoops.

People not willing to pay for something aren't going to do so. DRM does not help stop video game piracy any more than it does movie or music piracy. DRM only inconveniences the legitimate paying customers. Period.

Yeah, and companies like BioWare or EA would totally still do it. It is their desire to inconvenience consumer while gaining nothing, right?

Yes, they would.  They need to appear to be fighting against piracy even if those efforts are futile.  That's how business works.  If you don't think that's true, look at the copy protection for DVD, Blu-Ray, etc.  Are those stopping piracy?  Hell no.  Are they continuously adding new layers of useless protection anyway?  Definitely.

Look, there's nothing novel about this DRM.  It's all been done before.  There will be a cracked game on your favorite torrent site within 48 hours of release.  Will the DRM have been effective?  Certainly, it will have prevented the "pirates" from playing the game for 48 hours and it might have very slightly increased box sales on those first two days.  Is it worth inconveniencing all of their legitimate customers?  Maybe for the money counters at EA, but I certainly don't see it that way at all.

The OP asked us not to debate the pros and cons of DRM, so I won't say anything further.  I and others have posted numerous legitimate questions already that haven't been answered, so it'd be nice to get an update.  Anyone?

AC2 took a month+ to be cracked at a level any n00b could easily aplly. There is a level of protection, but most companies seem unwilling to aplly it, which is a shame.

[sevalaricgirl]

I can play offline with steam anytime I want and never have to go online. EA shouldn't be requiring that. I pre-ordered 2 copies of the game because I think that if I'm going to play it and my son is going to play it, we should each have our own copy. I shouldn't have to log in after the initial registration to play it.

[wolfsite]

StingingVelvet wrote...

AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote...

Lord Moths wrote...

And the consoles have drm. too?

No, not any more than just having to have the disc in the drive, which is standard for consoles.

Consoles sort-of have inherrent DRM in that you need to use particular hardware.  Also any patches come through an online service which may not function down the line, and DLC does have activation account-based DRM.  Since consoles are a closed system these measures are very hard or impossible to circumvent.

In the end since the PC is an open platform its arguably got the least DRM of any modern gaming device, despite these attempts to stop that.

If you want a fine example of Piracy on a console you just have to look at the Sega Dreamcast.  Hell many feel that was one of the main reasons the console didn't make (Yes I know there are others like DVD playback and such, but the system did have a lot of great games regarldess)

[Seifz]

ManiacalEvil wrote...

Seifz wrote...

ManiacalEvil wrote...

AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote...

I said in an earlier post that I know video game pirates,and I talked to one of them about this. He actually told me that most of the time he does purchase the games, however he also pirates them because of the DRM restrictions. I'm not saying either way whether I would consider doing the same, but I shouldn't have to consider resorting to piracy to play my legally purchased copy of a game without having to jump through hoops.

People not willing to pay for something aren't going to do so. DRM does not help stop video game piracy any more than it does movie or music piracy. DRM only inconveniences the legitimate paying customers. Period.

Yeah, and companies like BioWare or EA would totally still do it. It is their desire to inconvenience consumer while gaining nothing, right?

Yes, they would.  They need to appear to be fighting against piracy even if those efforts are futile.  That's how business works.  If you don't think that's true, look at the copy protection for DVD, Blu-Ray, etc.  Are those stopping piracy?  Hell no.  Are they continuously adding new layers of useless protection anyway?  Definitely.

Look, there's nothing novel about this DRM.  It's all been done before.  There will be a cracked game on your favorite torrent site within 48 hours of release.  Will the DRM have been effective?  Certainly, it will have prevented the "pirates" from playing the game for 48 hours and it might have very slightly increased box sales on those first two days.  Is it worth inconveniencing all of their legitimate customers?  Maybe for the money counters at EA, but I certainly don't see it that way at all.

The OP asked us not to debate the pros and cons of DRM, so I won't say anything further.  I and others have posted numerous legitimate questions already that haven't been answered, so it'd be nice to get an update.  Anyone?

AC2 took a month+ to be cracked at a level any n00b could easily aplly. There is a level of protection, but most companies seem unwilling to aplly it, which is a shame.

Yeah, and look at how terrible the experience has been for people who actually bought the game.  Let's not do that.

[ManiacalEvil]

Seifz wrote...

ManiacalEvil wrote...

Seifz wrote...

ManiacalEvil wrote...

AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote...

I said in an earlier post that I know video game pirates,and I talked to one of them about this. He actually told me that most of the time he does purchase the games, however he also pirates them because of the DRM restrictions. I'm not saying either way whether I would consider doing the same, but I shouldn't have to consider resorting to piracy to play my legally purchased copy of a game without having to jump through hoops.

People not willing to pay for something aren't going to do so. DRM does not help stop video game piracy any more than it does movie or music piracy. DRM only inconveniences the legitimate paying customers. Period.

Yeah, and companies like BioWare or EA would totally still do it. It is their desire to inconvenience consumer while gaining nothing, right?

Yes, they would.  They need to appear to be fighting against piracy even if those efforts are futile.  That's how business works.  If you don't think that's true, look at the copy protection for DVD, Blu-Ray, etc.  Are those stopping piracy?  Hell no.  Are they continuously adding new layers of useless protection anyway?  Definitely.

Look, there's nothing novel about this DRM.  It's all been done before.  There will be a cracked game on your favorite torrent site within 48 hours of release.  Will the DRM have been effective?  Certainly, it will have prevented the "pirates" from playing the game for 48 hours and it might have very slightly increased box sales on those first two days.  Is it worth inconveniencing all of their legitimate customers?  Maybe for the money counters at EA, but I certainly don't see it that way at all.

The OP asked us not to debate the pros and cons of DRM, so I won't say anything further.  I and others have posted numerous legitimate questions already that haven't been answered, so it'd be nice to get an update.  Anyone?

AC2 took a month+ to be cracked at a level any n00b could easily aplly. There is a level of protection, but most companies seem unwilling to aplly it, which is a shame.

Yeah, and look at how terrible the experience has been for people who actually bought the game.  Let's not do that.

I have played the game just fine,except for a single instance.

[StingingVelvet]

Kloreep wrote...

Fernando, or other Bioware folks who are still wading through this mess: as someone whose biggest concern is often the "what happens in 10 years?" type of question, I agree that "we have a sunset plan" is good to hear, and that you might consider making that a more prominent part of DRM announcements.

Particularly if you might be willing to share more details? "We have a sunset plan" is nice; something more specific, say "our patching procedures for game X will include the creation of an alternate, DRM-free version of any patches made, ready for immediate distribution should the servers ever get taken down" would pretty much shut me up as far as my personal objections go.

And to push my luck to the limit: As others have said, simply committing to a date would, I think get you some goodwill. E.g. "three years after the game's release," or "two years after the final DLC is released," etc., "we will release a DRM-removal patch for all PC versions." Wouldn't hinder your ability to launch a game & see it through its first year or two with DRM protection, and would be a very good answer to anyone asking the "what happens in 10 years?" question.

I completely agree with you and that is my main DRM concern as well.  It doesn't seem like EA is ever going to make a commitment to remove DRM though, despite Fernando's hints.  I mean seriously, why is Mass Effect still forcing its DRM on me 3 years later?  Makes no sense.

Alpha Protocol is a great example of doing it right.  Sega announced the game would have activation DRM but that it would be removed within two years.  They actually removed it much quicker than that, after only six months or so.  If every activation DRM system worked like that I would NEVER complain.

[AbsolutGrndZer0]

StingingVelvet wrote...

AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote...

Lord Moths wrote...

And the consoles have drm. too?

No, not any more than just having to have the disc in the drive, which is standard for consoles.

Consoles sort-of have inherrent DRM in that you need to use particular hardware.  Also any patches come through an online service which may not function down the line, and DLC does have activation account-based DRM.  Since consoles are a closed system these measures are very hard or impossible to circumvent.

In the end since the PC is an open platform its arguably got the least DRM of any modern gaming device, despite these attempts to stop that.

Yeah, but if I unplug my 360 from the internet, I can still play all my games forever without having to ever plug back in the internet.

[StingingVelvet]

ManiacalEvil wrote...

AC2 took a month+ to be cracked at a level any n00b could easily aplly. There is a level of protection, but most companies seem unwilling to aplly it, which is a shame.

And AC2 just blew the barn doors off with massive PC sale numbers right?  Oh wait... it didn't?  It was discounted to $15 after only a couple months on amazon?  Ubisoft never once mentioned higher sales numbers?  Many customers got screwed with connection problems and servers that didn't respond?

Defending that DRM is so ridiculous I can't even begin to debate it with you.

[Layn]

wolfsite wrote...

If you want a fine example of Piracy on a console you just have to look at the Sega Dreamcast.  Hell many feel that was one of the main reasons the console didn't make (Yes I know there are others like DVD playback and such, but the system did have a lot of great games regarldess)

the whole consoles history including saturns history is why the dreamcast died. Sega scrambled to get a new console out after the failure that saturn was for them. they gambled on it, didnt work out. piracy a problem? probably not the main reason, didn't the PS2 have a lot piracy too?

[StingingVelvet]

AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote...

Yeah, but if I unplug my 360 from the internet, I can still play all my games forever without having to ever plug back in the internet.

Of course.  And I can do the same thing with every singleplayer PC game ever released, if you get my meaning.

On consoles though if your hardware ever dies it might be very difficult or even impossible to get the patches and DLC back, or your Live Arcade games.  Microsoft already shut down Live support for the original Xbox and they will do the same for the Xbox 360 someday.

[ladydesire]

Seifz wrote...

Fadook wrote...

This is all so baffling to me. People rage against DRM in games and the majority of developers/publishers ignore them. Now one developer lets you remove disc checks, install the game on as many computers as you want and says there'll be no SecuRom. In return, all they ask is that you log in when you install the game and every few days if you're playing offline.

For what purpose?  Once we've authenticated our copy, why do we need to continue logging in every few days?  What information are they collecting when they do this?  How often do we need to do this?  Does this DRM scheme prevent us from reselling the game?  What DRM software is installed and is it uninstalled entirely when we uninstall the game?

There are way too many unknowns here.  Besides, a disc check is infinitely better than this system for me.  This system only helps EA, and not much.

Please name these places where people can legally buy a copy of Dragon Age but are geuninely going to have problems accessing the internet.

1.  Anyone deployed overseas, such as active military members and supporting civilians.
2.  Anyone living in a rural area with weak or no Internet penetration.
3.  Anyone who's lost their connection because of a storm, ISP failure, bandwidth limitations, etc.
4.  Anyone who travels frequently and doesn't know when he'll have a connection.

Those are just four examples.  I bet that you could think of more if you tried.

EDIT:  5.  EA's servers are down for any reason.

6: The Government of any country shuts down the ISPs temporarily for any reason (does no one pay attention to the news???) This actually happened in Egypt last weekend, by the way.

[Estelindis]

I was never especially bothered about disk checks, personally. (It's not too hard to keep all the disks I use habitually in one CD wallet.) This periodic check-in I do not like at all. It should be possible to use a disk check in lieu of it, should one wish. I certainly hope the periodic check-in will be dropped after a few years, once the price of DA2 has dropped and the pirates have moved on to newer things.

Upon a moment of reflection, actually, wouldn't this lead to lower game sales? I mean, not to put too fine a point on it, but at this stage I have bought Mass Effect 8-10 times (can't remember the exact number), DA:O five times, and ME2 three times, the extra copies all being gifts for friends. I don't pirate games - I support the developers. (If a game is "worth" pirating then the developer deserves to be rewarded for making it.) But if I can perfectly legitimately share a single disk with, say, four of my friends, allowing them to install and play the same copy as I do without concerns for disk checks, in a matter wholly accounted for by EA's publication plans for this game... Well, is that wrong? I mean, I couldn't give the installs to them as presents, but I'm sure I'd think of something else to buy for them! I don't know, I'm just... confused. It seems like this marketing approach is designed to make people like me give Bioware/EA less of my money. Or are people like me just too small a percentage of the overall market to be in any way relevant?

Modifié par Estelindis, 02 février 2011 - 02:05 .

[BTCentral]

Lord Moths wrote...

And the consoles have drm. too?

Consoles have DRM built-in, they will not have DRM like this.

The DRM mentioned here is for PC.

Modifié par BTCentral, 02 février 2011 - 12:52 .

[Deadmac]

Lets look at this a little more...

Chris Priestly wrote...
(1) You can play offline but the game will require a login check after a select period of days.
(2) It does not install anything to the PC.

So... How does it know when to call home? Magic?

Just to make this a little more logical. If your local government told you that at 12:00 pm on every Saturday you have to check in, we would call that form of government pure communism. Similar to how old USSR and current China do business.

Again, I don't mind activating the software once. I just don't like the nanny state approach.

I will not buy "Dragon Age II" (or any other BioWare game) if this version of the DRM is in place.

Modifié par Deadmac, 02 février 2011 - 01:25 .

[Eurypterid]

StingingVelvet wrote...
Alpha Protocol is a great example of doing it right.  Sega announced the game would have activation DRM but that it would be removed within two years.  They actually removed it much quicker than that, after only six months or so.  If every activation DRM system worked like that I would NEVER complain.

Nor would I. Of course, I also wouldn't buy the game until the DRM removal patch was released either.