976 réponses à ce sujet

[OneFodderUnit]

Does this game actually tie itself to my EA account and by extension the email address? Why should I buy a game that does that? It's bad enough that you can't resell your DLC but now I can't resell the game too? What happens if I lose that email address or EA account? The original game had nothing but a disc check. Why should I agree to this and pay 20 dollars more than I paid for DAO a few weeks ago it came out?

Even if it's not locked to an account I probably still wouldn't buy this. I'm not happy with going online to ask permission to play a game I paid for. A pirate doesn't care anyway. A simple crack gets rid of all the hoops I have to jump through as a paying customer.

Modifié par OneFodderUnit, 02 février 2011 - 07:23 .

[Cristi]

Reward the customers for buying your game not tie them with a leash

[entr0py]

Odd, looks like my previous post was deleted despite being worded in the most polite way possible. Let's try this again.



Will used sales be possible with the PC version of the game? Verifying with a CD-key linked to a specific EA account seems to eliminate the possibility. However, the official site prominently states which items are exclusive to "original buyers" (even on the PC version). Implying used sales are possible. Can anyone give a definitive answer?

[Nightehawk]

Any word on what information of what info would be used to identify that your copy it 'legit' (or whatever you want to call it?). I'm curious as to what they would check and what they would use to give you the "green light" to keep playing. Would it be as simple as DAO logging in to your EA account or would it have to be something more specific? I guess what im fishing for is how much info are you all running off with if its the later? Obviously the specific innerworkings of the DRM arent going to go out on the internet because that would defeat the purpose of it, but im curious about what you all would need to check and would do with the potential info gathered from that, and what info (if any) would be collected. (Obviously this could get complicated with the 5/24 thing)



Also I noticed that the pre-order page for DA2 says that there are bonuses for "original purchases." How does that work with the DRM? The implication of the above statement that used sales are possible but from what I've read that seems like it wouldn't be the case.



Also thanks for the clarifications and for asking for our feedback on this sort of thing. It sure beats the hell out trying to figure things out as you go on release day. Its the reason I keep coming back to Bioware games!



If this system as similar to DAO's system as Ferdinand's clarifications seems suggests than I think a lot of people are getting feathers ruffled for no reason but I also understand where a lot of people are coming from if its not.

[MDarwin]

Nightehawk wrote...

Any word on what information of what info would be used to identify that your copy it 'legit' (or whatever you want to call it?). I'm curious as to what they would check and what they would use to give you the "green light" to keep playing. Would it be as simple as DAO logging in to your EA account or would it have to be something more specific? I guess what im fishing for is how much info are you all running off with if its the later? Obviously the specific innerworkings of the DRM arent going to go out on the internet because that would defeat the purpose of it, but im curious about what you all would need to check and would do with the potential info gathered from that, and what info (if any) would be collected. (Obviously this could get complicated with the 5/24 thing)

Also I noticed that the pre-order page for DA2 says that there are bonuses for "original purchases." How does that work with the DRM? The implication of the above statement that used sales are possible but from what I've read that seems like it wouldn't be the case.

Also thanks for the clarifications and for asking for our feedback on this sort of thing. It sure beats the hell out trying to figure things out as you go on release day. Its the reason I keep coming back to Bioware games!

If this system as similar to DAO's system as Ferdinand's clarifications seems suggests than I think a lot of people are getting feathers ruffled for no reason but I also understand where a lot of people are coming from if its not.

Periodic BW/EA authentication check on you, if you run a legal game on your comp. DAO is not doing that.

[kgersen]

Fernando Melo wrote...
- It used Securom, or other 3rd party commercial drm, which players had several complaints about including not fully uninstalling itself

I am pretty sure that this is one is very similar to Microsoft Mojave experiment, call it Vista everybody hates it, call it something else everybody loves it, I think lots peoples think Securom is "bad" just because it's called "securom" while "custom made" DRM or other third party DRM are not any better. Myself I don't like DRM because of what they are, not because of what they are called.

Fernando Melo wrote...
So for those already tearing hair out in frustration - this is entirely your prerogative of course - if your concern really is only that final item I'd suggest waiting until that is actually decided on.

Personally for me it's easy, and I don't even ask for much, if EA/Bioware announce their firm intention to remove the DRM via a patch in one year or so (with a real planed date not just a "maybe someday")  then I will accept the DRM for the time being and buy the game, if not then I will pass on the game, recurring checks or not.

[kgersen]

Nightehawk wrote...
If this system as similar to DAO's system as Ferdinand's clarifications seems suggests than I think a lot of people are getting feathers ruffled for no reason but I also understand where a lot of people are coming from if its not.

DAO used a basic CD-check (for the main game)
, not an online activation DRM, it's no the same.

[sevalaricgirl]

DAO does not require you to log in after so many days to play the game. I've got a laptop that rarely gets connected to the internet because I have another laptop that I always use at home. I can play DAO anytime I want on my non connected laptop, never had to have a check. Again, my household own two copies of that too. I don't see why those of us who have non connected computers are being penalized for it when we're paying 60.00+ dollars (or in my case 120.00) for a game.  I should also add that I have DAO UE downloaded from EAstore.   They need to remove that check and I will be happy and if we're being vocal here, how many other customers are going to be ticked off that aren't on these forums and won't know anything about it until they get the box or download it.

Modifié par sevalaricgirl, 02 février 2011 - 10:45 .

[Big Mabels Diet-Plan]

XX55XX wrote...



I'll play devil's advocate here.

There are lots of people out in the world still relying on unreliable dial-up connections. A disk check should suffice for these people.

"But those people are poor so f*ck 'em" - BioWare exec

Good to see this developer leading the way in obnoxious, mercenary measures that create a lovely two tier hierachy of the haves and have-nots, it really warms the soul and nothing says 'we care about making great games' more than DRM and manipulative pre-order content censorship.

[ladydesire]

kgersen wrote...

Nightehawk wrote...
If this system as similar to DAO's system as Ferdinand's clarifications seems suggests than I think a lot of people are getting feathers ruffled for no reason but I also understand where a lot of people are coming from if its not.

DAO used a basic CD-check (for the main game)
, not an online activation DRM, it's no the same.

For the disc-based version, yes; EA Store version and other digital downloads had something else, depending on where you got it.

[philbo1965uk]

Reading back through several pages of interesting posts they does appear to be outrage,yet they are compiled in such a fashion as to make this issue appear new.



This has been getting worse for the last 2 years....and still people seem to miss the obvious.



Bioware have nothing to do with the DRM...they are contractually obligated to EA.



Companies like EA /Activision have a deliberate policy now.....EVERYONE on PC is to be treated as a dirty little pirate .That way as i said in an earlier post they can lock down the game and make sure any new content is via them.





These companies abhore custom content.Across genre the same has been happening .



The piracy issue is a big fat red herring.

[Big Mabels Diet-Plan]

philbo1965uk wrote...

Reading back through several pages of interesting posts they does appear to be outrage,yet they are compiled in such a fashion as to make this issue appear new.

This has been getting worse for the last 2 years....and still people seem to miss the obvious.

Bioware have nothing to do with the DRM...they are contractually obligated to EA.

Companies like EA /Activision have a deliberate policy now.....EVERYONE on PC is to be treated as a dirty little pirate .That way as i said in an earlier post they can lock down the game and make sure any new content is via them.


These companies abhore custom content.Across genre the same has been happening .

The piracy issue is a big fat red herring.

It makes me laugh that all the anti piracy measures have ever achieved is inconviniencing and hurting the genuine consumer.
I'ts like when you're subjected to an unskippable warning on your new DVD that makes fallacious arguments against piracy in a ridiculously authoritative manner....to an audience of people who didn't pirate the thing because the ripped copy doesn't have that sh*t.
I. and many others are aginst piracy across the board because it's ethically wrong but obviously we're not to be trusted to arrive at this position through our own judgement and must be treated instead like errant children, poised to misbehave without draconian viggilance to restrain us.
But then again, judging by the puerile mentality of your average gamer, people begging for beta key to play some farmville DA bullsh*t my feelings are equal parts sympathy and schadenfraude.

[monika26]

OneFodderUnit wrote...

Does this game actually tie itself to my EA account and by extension the email address? Why should I buy a game that does that? It's bad enough that you can't resell your DLC but now I can't resell the game too? What happens if I lose that email address or EA account? The original game had nothing but a disc check. Why should I agree to this and pay 20 dollars more than I paid for DAO a few weeks ago it came out?

Even if it's not locked to an account I probably still wouldn't buy this. I'm not happy with going online to ask permission to play a game I paid for. A pirate doesn't care anyway. A simple crack gets rid of all the hoops I have to jump through as a paying customer.

Yes, non-steam copies of the game will be tied to your EA account and therefore your email address as well. Although you can change your address on your EA account. But once you register your copy of DA2, it will forever be linked to your EA account. Which of course means no resale value at all. Unless you also want to give them your EA account.

This bothers me as well. Add this to the regular authentication checks every few days and well, they've lost my interest in the game. At least at the release price. I refuse to throw away my money on a game with those kinds of restrictions. Plus, how well will this DRM system work? People have had tons of issues with Dragon Age and Mass Effect 2 DLC. EA would have been better off using Steam for DRM. At least we know what to expect from Steam and we know that Steam is reliable.

In fact, once the price of DA2 drops to about 50% of the release date price, I'll probably buy it on Steam. I don't really like any sort of online DRM and I only buy games which include it when the prices have dropped quite a bit, sometimes when they cost next to nothing.

It's not that I'm cheap, for me the online DRM devalues the game in my eyes. Some may say that people should support good games and I agree, but that also doesn't mean we should also support restrictive DRM. DRM like that in DA2 does just two things. It makes the game a pain for paying customers to use and it destroys the resale value of the game. We all know this game will probably be cracked on the release date and we also know that game companies such as EA hate the used games market.

[philbo1965uk]

Agreed...Tripwire

But go further and realise the lockdown (which you know is a minor inconvenience to coders) agenda is to tackle custom content and make you rely on the publisher for all new content, and you are there.

I'm a modder/mapmaker within the FPS community and we've been subjected to the publisher agenda over the last 24 month.

I understand my bias...but when I see it being pushed across genre it's a concern.

Modifié par philbo1965uk, 02 février 2011 - 11:54 .

[Big Mabels Diet-Plan]

philbo1965uk wrote...

Agreed...Tripwire

But go further and realise the lockdown (which you know is a minor inconvenience to coders) agenda is to tackle custom content and make you rely on the publisher for all new content, and you are there.

I'm a modder/mapmaker within the FPS community and we've been subjected to the publisher agenda over the last 24 month.

I understand my bias...but when I see it being pushed across genre it's a concern.

Well yea, I always thought that the release of toolkits and actively supporting the fans own creativity was the exceptional part of PC gaming and when NeverWinter nights was released it seemed we were entering an exciting new era of mutual fan and developer co-operation with the goal of making great content placed way above the bottom line.
It still exists to some extent as in the excellent G.E.C.K released and supported by Bethesda demonstrates however it also seems that developers exploit the modders as unpaid beta testers these days as a lot of games are virtually unplayable on release and you're better off waiting six months until talented people who receive no plaudits or compensation for their efforts do some proper QA.
Theres also a depressing appetitie for nude mod as well, where did it all go wrong? 

[Pomi87]

This announcement is almost enough to get me cancel my preorder. ME1 already got me on my toes but I was relieved that DAO & ME2 didn't use same system, I really thought you had learned from that mistake... If your future games have system like this I'm not going to buy them at release only after they hit bargain bin. DRM just hurts us paying customers and definetly won't stop piracy from happening...

[brownybrown]

I wonder what will happen when i put in my disk(mail order) to play in Japan in early march? Will

Release Control system stop me playing until a Japanese edition is released ?

[cosmin haraga]

realeasing dao goty without dlc included on disc- I was realy looking for this as I don't have internet and that that I can ocasionally borow for activation cand't do dlc Gigs, now this....



my guess is original purchasers for ea means preorders - as in the underground market and dog is only available for preorder - at best the rest would get a dlc later, though I doubt it.



I find disc check a better solution than steam or any other net based c**p.



for some strange reasons ea has decided to catter only to the upper market of pc players.



esentially: no mods, no poor people, no net excemption, no satisfaction.

[Funker Shepard]

Fernando Melo wrote...
No, none of those.  DA2 essentially uses the same system we used with DAO for non-steam digital versions, an internal EA light drm app.

Considering that thing made DAO crash on startup eight times out of ten, I'm not exactly ecstatic. But I hope the issues related to that have been fixed since DAO.

[kgersen]

brownybrown wrote...
I wonder what will happen when i put in my disk(mail order) to play in Japan in early march? Will
Release Control system stop me playing until a Japanese edition is released ?

It depends how it works but IF it works on IP address like most other similar systems then yes you won't be able to activate it before its released in Japan.

[hawat333]

Cristi wrote...

Reward the customers for buying your game not tie them with a leash

With Mass Effect 2 any new buyers got a free DLC (Zaeed).
That was certainly more charming than getting a 'Release Control'.

[cosmin haraga]

The more complicated / restrictive this drm thing goes the more legitimate buyers are pushed towards some form of piracy.



That along with the crazy antipiracy laws being pushed - you get away with murder easier, makes me wonder whether the companies are in on a conspiracy/ quest to turn everybody into a convict.

[Jonp382]

Fernando Melo wrote...

Amongst other DRM related issues, ME1 (and other titles with similar DRM setups) had a massive outcry largely because:
- It used Securom, or other 3rd party commercial drm, which players had several complaints about including not fully uninstalling itself
- It had a hard limit on the number of machines you could install to, and although rare this could occasionally not add up correctly
- It had no method of de-authorizing itself from a machine (at launch time, this was made available later), which further aggravated the errors in the previous point if those occured
- It had to phone home every 10days (or in some titles, always)


This system, apart from being much more user and system friendly in a lot more subtle ways than most commercial drm software, has none of the first 3 items/restrictions.  And the jury is still out on the last item on the list (including whether to even have this).

Excellent post, thank you for the info. I hope you guys can get by without the periodic checks for DA2. That would be perfect. At the very least, it seems most of us would like these periodic checks to not last forever.

[CaolIla]

As long as there comes an update to remove the offline play thing as soon as EA shuts down the servers I can live with that.



Else we have to rely on the bad bad crackers to do the job of the publisher/developer.

[Azzen]

cool ^^ can't wait.....