976 réponses à ce sujet

[Lyssistr]

CorpZe wrote...

Quick Solution to everyones problem. Buy it on the console.

Steam could also be a viable option (Steam has an offline mode) but atm I'm not 100% sure what the Steam version will have on top of Steamworks.

[CorpZe]

I wish i could quote, sadly school pc's are limited. Yeah if you guys hate this retail PC drm then simply, don't pay for it. There are many easier things than complaining about someting that will only be altered, and not fixed.

[Cra1n]

This is the kind of lame crap that happens when ypu deal with the devil aka EA.

Thanks again for CandC DRM guys!

[Alynna_tp]

I can live with these restrictions as described. I'm just relieved it is not as bad as some feared. Thank you for throwing some clarity on the issue.



I do have one last concern, and that is that the servers might become overwhelmed with "verifying" copies and we'll have problems getting the game to run the first few days because of this. My only request is that Bioware work with EA to get a few extra servers running the first week of release or whatever it is that is needed to avoid such problems.



I'm just reminded of my problems with DA:O the first few days, being unable to login, and thus not being able to play due to the game not recognizing the DLC I owned and giving errors when loading saves... it was cleared up but it did take time.

[Lyssistr]

CorpZe wrote...

I wish i could quote, sadly school pc's are limited. Yeah if you guys hate this retail PC drm then simply, don't pay for it. There are many easier things than complaining about someting that will only be altered, and not fixed.

I do agree with voting with your money and never pay for something that you find annoying.

Can't agree with "can't be fixed" fixed tho, it can be fixed, even if they've burned all DAII DVDs by now, they can release a release-day patch which replaces DRM with simple checks (they could even require a serial no to download the patch, so that customers who purchased DAII have it easy).

[CorpZe]

ty Alynna finally a pressing matter.

[Cheiron the Centaur]

CorpZe wrote...

Quick Solution to everyones problem. Buy it on the console.

I don't own a console and I don't want a console. And besides, EA won't learn anything if everyone who wanted to buy the game on PC but doesn't because of the DRM, buys the game on console instead... in fact, I'm sure EA would be more than thrilled with that.

[StrikeQ]

When has DRM ever affected a pirate? Never, they remove all forms of it. All it "may" do is slow down the release of a crack.



DRM has only, and will only, ever affect the legitimate buyer.

[CorpZe]

As Lyssistr said, steam is viable because of its offline mode. Handling both sides of this arguement.

[Elsariel]

Lyssistr wrote...

 The problem is this, it's the customer paying them, not them paying the customer. They should be the ones trying to get into the customer's shoes, not the other way round.

I wholeheartedly agree.  I seriously don't want to have to login to my EA/Bioware/Whatever account AT ALL to verify I'm not a pirate, let alone every X amount of days.   It's disturbing. 

But.... if they're not going to have a disc check then exactly how are they going to prevent illegal distribution without an online check?   EA is either going to have to give in and realize they can't control how their software is distributed outside of retail sales and just stick to pleasing their honest fans, or they're going to have to sacrifice the happiness of their fanbase to retain the revenue of those people who would happily load their friends game for free but who would NOT be willing to torrent the pirated version.  I think it's THOSE people EA is targeting.

[ladydesire]

Lyssistr wrote...

CorpZe wrote...

Quick Solution to everyones problem. Buy it on the console.

Steam could also be a viable option (Steam has an offline mode) but atm I'm not 100% sure what the Steam version will have on top of Steamworks.

Steamworks, according to the first post.

[CorpZe]

Sadly it wouldn't be too hard to get around the drm... Its like resetting a trial...

[darkblueglass]

CorpZe wrote...

As Lyssistr said, steam is viable because of its offline mode. Handling both sides of this arguement.

I know the steam like offline mode is ideal but I don't think that Bioware can use that type of method.

I don't think 99% people won't lend their steam account to their friends because the account has very important information such as credit card information etc. I think that Valve depends on that to deter the casual illegal distribution with the offline mode.

But with the EA account, you can create an account very easily. You need just an email address which can be created easily even with fake names.  So, you can easily lend the game to 10 of your friends and all of them can authorize their copy one by one and go offline and play the game at the same time. That way one copy can be used by many people easily. That's why Bioware cannot do the offline mode. They will need either a disk check or the DRM as described.

[Snelle Jaap]

well i have good news for me self ...i don't care anymore.
I not gonna buy this game.
I just got a gift coupon for bol.com (Thanks Bro) so DA 2 will be free for me ...but i still don't like the DRM.

Cheers.

[Lyssistr]

Elsariel wrote...

Lyssistr wrote...

 The problem is this, it's the customer paying them, not them paying the customer. They should be the ones trying to get into the customer's shoes, not the other way round.

I wholeheartedly agree.  I seriously don't want to have to login to my EA/Bioware/Whatever account AT ALL to verify I'm not a pirate, let alone every X amount of days.   It's disturbing. 

But.... if they're not going to have a disc check then exactly how are they going to prevent illegal distribution without an online check?   EA is either going to have to give in and realize they can't control how their software is distributed outside of retail sales and just stick to pleasing their honest fans, or they're going to have to sacrifice the happiness of their fanbase to retain the revenue of those people who would happily load their friends game for free but who would NOT be willing to torrent the pirated version.  I think it's THOSE people EA is targeting.

 Again, it's not my job to find out what they'll do if xyz, I'm the one paying, they should be the ones trying to find out what I'll do if xyz .

 However, as a counter argument, DAO & ME2 sales were pretty solid, and something to be proud of, yet they only had DVD checks. 

 Sure some people lend the game it to their friends (who hardly had any DLC access tho), happens with books as well, happens with clothes and pretty much anything people pay for.

 
 They want to target 2nd hand market, video clubs that rent games or people who may give the game to a friend for a week. They can technically do that, yet doing that hasn't always turned out to increase sales&revenue.
  
 It is 100% within their rights to target whoever they want and apply whatever measures they want, as it is the customer's right to give his money elsewhere, this has happened with a couple games from EA in the past.

 My main problem with this kind of policies is that they do not really affect those that sign up for the "Pirates of the Caribbean Edition" but they do make paying customers confront all sort of hussle.

 If they're afraid of piracy, a mild-drm solution like Steam, where you only need to authenticate *once* and then play all your games offline, without any install-limits, would do the job and tbh I can understand this approach (effectively I consider Steam to be 100% equivalent to a big online DVD but this is part of another, offtopic, discussion) and I'd be happy with that sort of measure to reduce piracy.

[Lyssistr]

ladydesire wrote...

Lyssistr wrote...

CorpZe wrote...

Quick Solution to everyones problem. Buy it on the console.

Steam could also be a viable option (Steam has an offline mode) but atm I'm not 100% sure what the Steam version will have on top of Steamworks.

Steamworks, according to the first post.

I've heard this in the past (albeit not from Bioware to be fair, Bio never did this in the past), only to find out DRM on top of Steamworks was installed.

 I'm not saying that's what they'll do, but past purchases (albeit from other developers, not Bioware) have taught me to be cautious and wait for release-date to see what users say about DRM.

[ladydesire]

Lyssistr wrote...


 If they're afraid of piracy, a mild-drm solution like Steam, where you only need to authenticate *once* and then play all your games offline, without any install-limits, would do the job and tbh I can understand this approach (effectively I consider Steam to be 100% equivalent to a big online DVD but this is part of another, offtopic, discussion) and I'd be happy with that sort of measure to reduce piracy.

While this is a fair solution, why not just use Steamworks for all PC versions to begin with, instead of wasting time developing a separate solution, other than some players are convinced that Steam is the work of some Malificar... 

[Lyssistr]

ladydesire wrote...

Lyssistr wrote...


 If they're afraid of piracy, a mild-drm solution like Steam, where you only need to authenticate *once* and then play all your games offline, without any install-limits, would do the job and tbh I can understand this approach (effectively I consider Steam to be 100% equivalent to a big online DVD but this is part of another, offtopic, discussion) and I'd be happy with that sort of measure to reduce piracy.

While this is a fair solution, why not just use Steamworks for all PC versions to begin with, instead of wasting time developing a separate solution, other than some players are convinced that Steam is the work of some Malificar... 

I'd be fine with that, or an EA solution that works like Steam. The reasons I consider Steam to be non-invasive & non-restrictive are:

- It installs no drivers (very crucial to me)
- It has an offline mode (so you don't care if your provider is facing problems for a couple of days)
- you can backup everything locally, put it in an external drive and transfer it to another PC (so even if steam goes bankrupt someday, something entirely possible, you will access all your games from an XP/Vista/win7 virtual machine, virtualization will get there)

These make Steam pretty much equivalent to a DVD solution,now on top of these you get,

- convenient online storage
- convenient install for *all your games* whenever you buy a new PC
- for games existing on a mac, you pay once and you get *both* the mac & PC versions.

/end<steamad>

 GoG is slightly better, in the sense that backing up your purchased games is more straightforward, but I don't consider Steam to be offensive at all and it's good enough to combat non-hardcore pirates. Hardcore-pirates will do their thing anyhow, no matter what rabbit EA pulls out of their hat.

 But the key to successful DRM is non-invasive & non-restrictive DRM. I don't like being slapped in the face for purchasing a game.

 If EA uses something like Steamworks, only called EAworks because e.g. they want to run their own store, it's fine imho. What's not fine is intrusive & restrictive measures.

[darkblueglass]

Lyssistr wrote...

ladydesire wrote...

Lyssistr wrote...


 If they're afraid of piracy, a mild-drm solution like Steam, where you only need to authenticate *once* and then play all your games offline, without any install-limits, would do the job and tbh I can understand this approach (effectively I consider Steam to be 100% equivalent to a big online DVD but this is part of another, offtopic, discussion) and I'd be happy with that sort of measure to reduce piracy.

While this is a fair solution, why not just use Steamworks for all PC versions to begin with, instead of wasting time developing a separate solution, other than some players are convinced that Steam is the work of some Malificar... 

I'd be fine with that, or an EA solution that works like Steam. The reasons I consider Steam to be non-invasive & non-restrictive are:

- It installs no drivers (very crucial to me)
- It has an offline mode (so you don't care if your provider is facing problems for a couple of days)
- you can backup everything locally, put it in an external drive and transfer it to another PC (so even if steam goes bankrupt someday, something entirely possible, you will access all your games from an XP/Vista/win7 virtual machine, virtualization will get there)

These make Steam pretty much equivalent to a DVD solution,now on top of these you get,

- convenient online storage
- convenient install for *all your games* whenever you buy a new PC
- for games existing on a mac, you pay once and you get *both* the mac & PC versions.

/end

 GoG is slightly better, in the sense that backing up your purchased games is more straightforward, but I don't consider Steam to be offensive at all and it's good enough to combat non-hardcore pirates. Hardcore-pirates will do their thing anyhow, no matter what rabbit EA pulls out of their hat.

 But the key to successful DRM is non-invasive & non-restrictive DRM. I don't like being slapped in the face for purchasing a game.

 If EA uses something like Steamworks, only called EAworks because e.g. they want to run their own store, it's fine imho. What's not fine is intrusive & restrictive measures.

Does this DRM install any driver?
They don't use the SecureRom. 
It could be all in-game as the DA:O DLC DRM.

Modifié par darkblueglass, 02 février 2011 - 06:33 .

[Lyssistr]

darkblueglass wrote...

Does this DRM install any driver?
They don't use the SecureRom.

This is something they need to clarify. So far only the restrictive aspect of DRM has been discussed, the intrusive bit is as crucial imo.

[uglor808]

almost everyone has internet access, BUT many people are not connected to the internet with their main or home computer. i know a few people whose only source of internet is through computers at work, school, or the public library. some have laptops or netbooks, and gain internet access at the local starbucks or other places that offer free wifi connection. some people choose not to pay for internet as they only go online a few hours a week to check email, or news or see what movie is playing at the local theater. others live in locations where broadband is not available and will refuse to pay for dialup just to play a game.



i have internet access at home but this on-line check ins still bother me. not only do we have to deal with our own ISP's reliability, but we now have to contend with the stability and availability of EA'S servers. if they are down when our check in time is up, we can't play. also, if we accept this with no resistance, the next step is constant online connection requirement ala Assassin's Creed II. honestly, do you think this DRM will have a bigger impact on pirating than DA:O's DRM? when EA sees this, they'll just make the DRM scheme even more intrusive for the next title. and the sad thing is that most people will complain about it but end up accepting it.

[Seifz]

Lyssistr wrote...

CorpZe wrote...

Quick Solution to everyones problem. Buy it on the console.

Steam could also be a viable option (Steam has an offline mode) but atm I'm not 100% sure what the Steam version will have on top of Steamworks.

What?  No, Steam is just as bad (or worse) than this EA DRM.  With Steam, you still depend on Valve's servers being available.  Yes, you can play in offline mode.  Unless Steam bugs (happens more often that most will admit), or you want to get a new Steam game, or you need to reinstall, or you want to patch, or...  And you still have the sunset problem, too.  In addition, you can never install old versions of the game if you don't like a patch (e.g. patch 1.2 for DA:O).

Besides, there's no Signature Edition on Steam.  Lots of us have pre-orders for the SE and we really need more details so that we can decide whether or not to keep them.

So, I still have some questions that BioWare hasn't answered.
1.  Will the sunset procedures be documented in the EULA?
2.  Will we be able to unlink our account from the game so that it can be resold?
3.  When will we know more about the "check in every X days" feature?  Specifically, are you using it?  How many days?  What information do you collect?

[Velakan]

What would really suck is that if  one was in a country like Egypt, and they shut down all ISPS, youd be unable to play...

But hacker/****** teams will have this already patched day before it comes out

[Velakan]

Modifié par Velakan, 02 février 2011 - 07:31 .