976 réponses à ce sujet

[Lyssistr]

Velakan wrote...

What would really suck is that if  one was in a country like Egypt, and they shut down all ISPS, youd be unable to play...

But hacker/****** teams will have this already patched day before it comes out

Well tbh I don't consider this a real solution, why on earth would I have to go through howtocrackda2.txt and worry about installing spyware for a game I've purchased. When you buy something you also pay support, I don't want my support to be left to 3l1t3Cr4k3r1978, I want my support to come from the ones that actually get paid to do it.

[ladydesire]

Lyssistr wrote...

darkblueglass wrote...

Does this DRM install any driver?
They don't use the SecureRom.

This is something they need to clarify. So far only the restrictive aspect of DRM has been discussed, the intrusive bit is as crucial imo.

I believe Fernando Melo already addressed this in this thread.

[Lyssistr]

Seifz wrote...

Lyssistr wrote...

CorpZe wrote...

Quick Solution to everyones problem. Buy it on the console.

Steam could also be a viable option (Steam has an offline mode) but atm I'm not 100% sure what the Steam version will have on top of Steamworks.

What?  No, Steam is just as bad (or worse) than this EA DRM.  With Steam, you still depend on Valve's servers being available.  Yes, you can play in offline mode.  Unless Steam bugs (happens more often that most will admit), or you want to get a new Steam game, or you need to reinstall, or you want to patch, or...  And you still have the sunset problem, too.  In addition, you can never install old versions of the game if you don't like a patch (e.g. patch 1.2 for DA:O).

Besides, there's no Signature Edition on Steam.  Lots of us have pre-orders for the SE and we really need more details so that we can decide whether or not to keep them.

So, I still have some questions that BioWare hasn't answered.
1.  Will the sunset procedures be documented in the EULA?
2.  Will we be able to unlink our account from the game so that it can be resold?
3.  When will we know more about the "check in every X days" feature?  Specifically, are you using it?  How many days?  What information do you collect?

tbh Steam hasn't bugged for me so far. I can udnerstand the auto patch issue but maybe (haven't tried it tho) you can rollback by disabling updates and applying the previous patch manually. This is similar to what people do when they use community patches to older games (eg bloodlines) and they don't want Steam to auto-update everything.

[kgersen]

Lyssistr wrote...
- you can backup everything locally, put it in an external drive and transfer it to another PC (so even if steam goes bankrupt someday, something entirely possible, you will access all your games from an XP/Vista/win7 virtual machine, virtualization will get there)

Well no,  your Steam backup are completly useless unless you reactivate them online on Steam. So if Steam ever goes down (and valve hasn't releassed a magic "Steam-removal" patch) you will be the proud owner of GB of useless unplayable backups.

Lyssistr wrote...
I can udnerstand the auto patch issue but
maybe (haven't tried it tho) you can rollback by disabling updates and
applying the previous patch manually. This is similar to what people do
when they use community patches to older games (eg bloodlines) and they
don't want Steam to auto-update everything.

That works only for some games and only if the patch was ever releassed outside of Steam. Which means that you can forget it for Steamwork only games.

Modifié par kgersen, 02 février 2011 - 07:48 .

[Lyssistr]

kgersen wrote...

Lyssistr wrote...
- you can backup everything locally, put it in an external drive and transfer it to another PC (so even if steam goes bankrupt someday, something entirely possible, you will access all your games from an XP/Vista/win7 virtual machine, virtualization will get there)

Well no,  your Steam backup are completly useless unless you reactivate them online on Steam. So if Steam ever goes down (and valve hasn't releassed a magic "Steam-removal" patch) you will be the proud owner of GB of useless unplayable backups.

Lyssistr wrote...
I can udnerstand the auto patch issue but
maybe (haven't tried it tho) you can rollback by disabling updates and
applying the previous patch manually. This is similar to what people do
when they use community patches to older games (eg bloodlines) and they
don't want Steam to auto-update everything.

That works only for some games and only if the patch was ever releassed outside of Steam. Which means that you can forget it for Steamwork only games.

 If you backup everything (to external storage) and the day steam goes bankrupt, you export your PC installation (with the same version of Steam you used to install these games in the first place) to a VM image then you should have a portable image with all your games, that allows you to play all your games through a VM & steam in offline mode.

[kgersen]

Lyssistr wrote...
 If you backup everything (to external storage) and the day steam goes bankrupt, you export your PC installation (with the same version of Steam you used to install these games in the first place) to a VM image then you should have a portable image with all your games, that allows you to play all your games through a VM & steam in offline mode.

It won't work until you uses exactly the same PC, Steam uses hardware fingerprinting, if it detect hardware changes the offline mode won't work untill you reactivate online.

[Lyssistr]

kgersen wrote...

Lyssistr wrote...
 If you backup everything (to external storage) and the day steam goes bankrupt, you export your PC installation (with the same version of Steam you used to install these games in the first place) to a VM image then you should have a portable image with all your games, that allows you to play all your games through a VM & steam in offline mode.

It won't work until you uses exactly the same PC, Steam uses hardware fingerprinting, if it detect hardware changes the offline mode won't work untill you reactivate online.

ok, then I see your point.Btw do you know if it's a full fingerprint or a mo-bo only fingerprint (like the one windows use). Still, I guess someone who's keen could use a VM now to store everything and use that exact same VM to play in the future.

[Royas]

CorpZe wrote...

Quick Solution to everyones problem. Buy it on the console.

Why should I be forced to play a game on anything but my preferred platform, just to satisfy some paranoid fool's desire to fight piracy?  I prefer the PC, I want the game on the PC, but I won't put up with this type of idiotic DRM.  If BioEA wants to make it annoying for me to use my preferred platform, then I just won't give them my money.  As I said before when they tried to roll this exact same DRM out for the first Mass Effect - They need me (that is to say, the customer), I don't need them.  I will continue to exist if BioEA folds, BioEA will not continue to exist if the customer stops buying their games.  It's a simple equation.

[Sorwen]

I have to say thank you and awesome. It is great you went with the least painful DRM choices possible.

[Royas]

philbo1965uk wrote...

Reading back through several pages of interesting posts they does appear to be outrage,yet they are compiled in such a fashion as to make this issue appear new.

This has been getting worse for the last 2 years....and still people seem to miss the obvious.

Bioware have nothing to do with the DRM...they are contractually obligated to EA.

Companies like EA /Activision have a deliberate policy now.....EVERYONE on PC is to be treated as a dirty little pirate .That way as i said in an earlier post they can lock down the game and make sure any new content is via them.


These companies abhore custom content.Across genre the same has been happening .

The piracy issue is a big fat red herring.

They aren't contractually obligated to EA.

They are EA.

That's what Mr. Priestly said during that sad Mass Effect fiasco a few years back, and I've seen no evidence to contradict this.

Bioware is gone, people, has been for years.  It's just an appendage of EA now.  And EA is not your friend, it just wants your money.  Sad, but true.

[coolide]

Royas wrote...

CorpZe wrote...

Quick Solution to everyones problem. Buy it on the console.

Why should I be forced to play a game on anything but my preferred platform, just to satisfy some paranoid fool's desire to fight piracy?  I prefer the PC, I want the game on the PC, but I won't put up with this type of idiotic DRM.  If BioEA wants to make it annoying for me to use my preferred platform, then I just won't give them my money.  As I said before when they tried to roll this exact same DRM out for the first Mass Effect - They need me (that is to say, the customer), I don't need them.  I will continue to exist if BioEA folds, BioEA will not continue to exist if the customer stops buying their games.  It's a simple equation.

They don't need you.  If they lose one customer, but prevent two people from pirating their game, then this works out in their favour.  Whether you buy the game or not isn't going to make a financial difference to them.

[Lyssistr]

coolide wrote...

Royas wrote...

CorpZe wrote...

Quick Solution to everyones problem. Buy it on the console.

Why should I be forced to play a game on anything but my preferred platform, just to satisfy some paranoid fool's desire to fight piracy?  I prefer the PC, I want the game on the PC, but I won't put up with this type of idiotic DRM.  If BioEA wants to make it annoying for me to use my preferred platform, then I just won't give them my money.  As I said before when they tried to roll this exact same DRM out for the first Mass Effect - They need me (that is to say, the customer), I don't need them.  I will continue to exist if BioEA folds, BioEA will not continue to exist if the customer stops buying their games.  It's a simple equation.

They don't need you.  If they lose one customer, but prevent two people from pirating their game, then this works out in their favour.  Whether you buy the game or not isn't going to make a financial difference to them.

Spore didn't work out quite this way. almost oo-one bought, only pirates played the game.

[Seifz]

Royas wrote...

philbo1965uk wrote...

Reading back through several pages of interesting posts they does appear to be outrage,yet they are compiled in such a fashion as to make this issue appear new.

This has been getting worse for the last 2 years....and still people seem to miss the obvious.

Bioware have nothing to do with the DRM...they are contractually obligated to EA.

Companies like EA /Activision have a deliberate policy now.....EVERYONE on PC is to be treated as a dirty little pirate .That way as i said in an earlier post they can lock down the game and make sure any new content is via them.


These companies abhore custom content.Across genre the same has been happening .

The piracy issue is a big fat red herring.

They aren't contractually obligated to EA.

They are EA.

That's what Mr. Priestly said during that sad Mass Effect fiasco a few years back, and I've seen no evidence to contradict this.

Bioware is gone, people, has been for years.  It's just an appendage of EA now.  And EA is not your friend, it just wants your money.  Sad, but true.

Seriously, you all should stop letting BioWare off the hook and pushing the blame to EA.  Don't forget that BioWare's leaders have titles like "Vice President of EA" and that all of their paychecks come from EA.  They're the same company, now.  If the "BioWare people" don't want to be associated with EA's evil, maybe they shouldn't be working for EA.

[StrikeQ]

coolide wrote...

Royas wrote...

CorpZe wrote...

Quick Solution to everyones problem. Buy it on the console.

Why should I be forced to play a game on anything but my preferred platform, just to satisfy some paranoid fool's desire to fight piracy?  I prefer the PC, I want the game on the PC, but I won't put up with this type of idiotic DRM.  If BioEA wants to make it annoying for me to use my preferred platform, then I just won't give them my money.  As I said before when they tried to roll this exact same DRM out for the first Mass Effect - They need me (that is to say, the customer), I don't need them.  I will continue to exist if BioEA folds, BioEA will not continue to exist if the customer stops buying their games.  It's a simple equation.

They don't need you.  If they lose one customer, but prevent two people from pirating their game, then this works out in their favour.  Whether you buy the game or not isn't going to make a financial difference to them.

Yet how does DRM stop the pirates? Once it's cracked the people that play it don't have any DRM whatsoever in their game. And it isn't rocket science to play a cracked game, in fact it's usually easier for people than trying to overcome varoius types of DRM related issues.

DRM only affects paying customers.

[Royas]

coolide wrote...

Royas wrote...

CorpZe wrote...

Quick Solution to everyones problem. Buy it on the console.

Why should I be forced to play a game on anything but my preferred platform, just to satisfy some paranoid fool's desire to fight piracy?  I prefer the PC, I want the game on the PC, but I won't put up with this type of idiotic DRM.  If BioEA wants to make it annoying for me to use my preferred platform, then I just won't give them my money.  As I said before when they tried to roll this exact same DRM out for the first Mass Effect - They need me (that is to say, the customer), I don't need them.  I will continue to exist if BioEA folds, BioEA will not continue to exist if the customer stops buying their games.  It's a simple equation.

They don't need you.  If they lose one customer, but prevent two people from pirating their game, then this works out in their favour.  Whether you buy the game or not isn't going to make a financial difference to them.

Uh, no it doesn't.  If they lose one customer, and (hah!) prevent two people from pirating, they lose one customer.  Period.  People who pirate don't buy.  The only real test done on piracy conversion through DRM showed something like a .1% conversion.  One in one thousand.  Not good odds.

That's assuming they actually prevent anyone from pirating.  I thing all of us here know enough about how this works to realize that won't happen.  The pirates always win, they have more resources, more time and frankly greater ambition.  So, all they've done is lose a sale, and gained nothing.

We call that a straight up loss where I come from.

[IronVanguard]

Not bad.

No disc check is great. Call me lazy, I just like to switch between games quickly. Probably why I like steam. But that wouldn't suffice for this, I HAD to have the real thing, the Signature Edition. Box and all.

[Killjoy Cutter]

coolide wrote...

Royas wrote...

CorpZe wrote...

Quick Solution to everyones problem. Buy it on the console.

Why should I be forced to play a game on anything but my preferred platform, just to satisfy some paranoid fool's desire to fight piracy?  I prefer the PC, I want the game on the PC, but I won't put up with this type of idiotic DRM.  If BioEA wants to make it annoying for me to use my preferred platform, then I just won't give them my money.  As I said before when they tried to roll this exact same DRM out for the first Mass Effect - They need me (that is to say, the customer), I don't need them.  I will continue to exist if BioEA folds, BioEA will not continue to exist if the customer stops buying their games.  It's a simple equation.

They don't need you.  If they lose one customer, but prevent two people from pirating their game, then this works out in their favour.  Whether you buy the game or not isn't going to make a financial difference to them.

 Except of course that DRM really doesn't prevent piracy, and people who pirate weren't going to buy anyway.

In related news, the latest PS3 firmware was hacked in under 24 hours...

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 02 février 2011 - 09:12 .

[Elsariel]

StrikeQ wrote...

Yet how does DRM stop the pirates? Once it's cracked the people that play it don't have any DRM whatsoever in their game. And it isn't rocket science to play a cracked game, in fact it's usually easier for people than trying to overcome varoius types of DRM related issues.

DRM only affects paying customers.

IMO, DRM doesn't stop the pirates.  The pirates are going to pirate no matter what.  I think DRM stops those people who would borrow the game from a friend rather than buy their own copy.    The casuals, as you might say.   These casuals are also people who aren't likely to specifically download pirated software from the internet.

[Morroian]

Sorwen wrote...

I have to say thank you and awesome. It is great you went with the least painful DRM choices possible.

Its not the least painful but I do think the only people with legitimate complaints about it are those who either don't have or who have bad internet connections. And even then from Fernando's post the internet check every few days isn't set in stone yet. 

Modifié par Morroian, 02 février 2011 - 09:25 .

[Oppopji]

coolide wrote...

They don't need you. If they lose one customer, but prevent two people from pirating their game, then this works out in their favour. Whether you buy the game or not isn't going to make a financial difference to them.

You're assuming here that the would-be pirates would then go on to buy the game instead; if that was the case then AC2 should have been one of the best selling games ever made, considering that its DRM wasn't cracked until about a month after release...

Modifié par Oppopji, 02 février 2011 - 09:25 .

[Bryy_Miller]

Royas wrote...


They aren't contractually obligated to EA.

They are EA.

That's what Mr. Priestly said during that sad Mass Effect fiasco a few years back, and I've seen no evidence to contradict this.

Bioware is gone, people, has been for years.  It's just an appendage of EA now.  And EA is not your friend, it just wants your money.  Sad, but true.

BioWare still exists, it's just a division of EA. So, no. EA has not disbanded them. I don't see why this is so horrible for some people. Yes, EA does not always make the best decisions, but the basic concept of merging is not some awful thing.

[Seifz]

Morroian wrote...

Sorwen wrote...

I have to say thank you and awesome. It is great you went with the least painful DRM choices possible.

Its not the least painful but I do think the only people with legitimate complaints about it are those who either don't have or who have bad internet connections. And even then from Fernando's post the internet check every few days isn't set in stone yet.

Or anyone who values their privacy.  Or anyone who believes that you have the right to own what you've legally purchased.  Or anyone who supports Fair Use laws.  Or...  You get the point.

Does nobody see what's happening here?  You can no longer sell PC games.  You can no longer play with your friends via LAN because companies are switching to platforms like Steam and BNet.  You can no longer reliably play single-player games on your own PC whenever you want to.  You can no longer be sure that Game Company X isn't collecting personal data to use for advertising purposes when you play their games.

You're losing functionality and features that you've enjoyed for years all in a futile attempt to curb piracy.  Why is everyone okay with that?

[Seifz]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Royas wrote...


They aren't contractually obligated to EA.

They are EA.

That's what Mr. Priestly said during that sad Mass Effect fiasco a few years back, and I've seen no evidence to contradict this.

Bioware is gone, people, has been for years.  It's just an appendage of EA now.  And EA is not your friend, it just wants your money.  Sad, but true.

BioWare still exists, it's just a division of EA. So, no. EA has not disbanded them. I don't see why this is so horrible for some people. Yes, EA does not always make the best decisions, but the basic concept of merging is not some awful thing.

It wasn't a merger.  It was a buyout.  The chain of command goes like this:  EA -> BioWare.  BioWare employees are paid by EA, BioWare's founders and executives are also EA executives, etc.  If BioWare folks don't want to be associated with EA, then they shouldn't be accepting EA paychecks.  As long as they do, they're EA.

EDIT:  In the interest of fairness, it might be true that BioWare has maintained some independence.  However, they have that independence because EA says they can.  They still have to answer to EA in the end.

Modifié par Seifz, 02 février 2011 - 09:32 .

[StrikeQ]

Oppopji wrote...

coolide wrote...

They don't need you. If they lose one customer, but prevent two people from pirating their game, then this works out in their favour. Whether you buy the game or not isn't going to make a financial difference to them.

You're assuming here that the would-be pirates would then go on to buy the game instead; if that was the case then AC2 should have been one of the best selling games ever made, considering that its DRM wasn't cracked until about a month after release...

Wasn't AC2 cracked in under 24 hours? Or maybe I'm thinking of a different game that used the same Always Online DRM method.

With one of those games, pirates were able to play from Day 1 with no issues whereas everyone who bought the game could not play for a couple days due to the DRM servers being down.

[Oppopji]

StrikeQ wrote...

Wasn't AC2 cracked in under 24 hours? Or maybe I'm thinking of a different game that used the same Always Online DRM method.

With one of those games, pirates were able to play from Day 1 with no issues whereas everyone who bought the game could not play for a couple days due to the DRM servers being down.

AC2 took a long time as it was the first time it had been used, but now that it's known how it works any newer games that use it are cracked quickly. Similar thing happened with BioShock - it took about a week before a working crack came out for that; however all games using the same system after that were cracked very quickly.

Basically, the only way to prevent piracy for any appreciable length of time is to develop a whole new unique system for every game... not very practical and VERY inconvenient for end users.