976 réponses à ce sujet

[coolide]

Oppopji wrote...

coolide wrote...

They don't need you. If they lose one customer, but prevent two people from pirating their game, then this works out in their favour. Whether you buy the game or not isn't going to make a financial difference to them.

You're assuming here that the would-be pirates would then go on to buy the game instead; if that was the case then AC2 should have been one of the best selling games ever made, considering that its DRM wasn't cracked until about a month after release...

I'm not assuming anything.  I said if.

Modifié par coolide, 02 février 2011 - 09:44 .

[Morroian]

Seifz wrote...

Or anyone who values their privacy.  Or anyone who believes that you have the right to own what you've legally purchased.  Or anyone who supports Fair Use laws.  Or...  You get the point.

No your being paranoid.

Modifié par Morroian, 02 février 2011 - 09:47 .

[coolide]

Seifz wrote...

Morroian wrote...

Sorwen wrote...

I have to say thank you and awesome. It is great you went with the least painful DRM choices possible.

Its not the least painful but I do think the only people with legitimate complaints about it are those who either don't have or who have bad internet connections. And even then from Fernando's post the internet check every few days isn't set in stone yet.

Or anyone who values their privacy.  Or anyone who believes that you have the right to own what you've legally purchased.  Or anyone who supports Fair Use laws.  Or...  You get the point.

Does nobody see what's happening here?  You can no longer sell PC games.  You can no longer play with your friends via LAN because companies are switching to platforms like Steam and BNet.  You can no longer reliably play single-player games on your own PC whenever you want to.  You can no longer be sure that Game Company X isn't collecting personal data to use for advertising purposes when you play their games.

You're losing functionality and features that you've enjoyed for years all in a futile attempt to curb piracy.  Why is everyone okay with that?

What kind of personal information could they possibly get from this?

Modifié par coolide, 02 février 2011 - 09:47 .

[Oppopji]

coolide wrote...

Oppopji wrote...

coolide wrote...

They don't need you. If they lose one customer, but prevent two people from pirating their game, then this works out in their favour. Whether you buy the game or not isn't going to make a financial difference to them.

You're assuming here that the would-be pirates would then go on to buy the game instead; if that was the case then AC2 should have been one of the best selling games ever made, considering that its DRM wasn't cracked until about a month after release...

I'm not assuming anything.  I said if.

But you implied it by saying it works out in their favour. Losing one sale and then not gaining extra sales from the two pirates they stopped is a net loss which definitely does *not* work in their favour.

[coolide]

Well I guess it is possible that they wouldn't sell the game at all. But if I owned intellectual property, I would do anything to prevent people from stealing it and using it without paying me. And if that meant that I was going to prevent some people from buying the rights to use my intellectual property, than that is just collateral damage.

[AlanC9]

Seifz wrote...

It wasn't a merger.  It was a buyout.  The chain of command goes like this:  EA -> BioWare.  BioWare employees are paid by EA, BioWare's founders and executives are also EA executives, etc.  If BioWare folks don't want to be associated with EA, then they shouldn't be accepting EA paychecks.  As long as they do, they're EA.

EDIT:  In the interest of fairness, it might be true that BioWare has maintained some independence.  However, they have that independence because EA says they can.  They still have to answer to EA in the end.

Even so, what of it? Bioware pioneered online activation on launch with NWN1 Premium Modules,  years before they were acquired by EA. Anyone who thinks that an independent Bioware would be opposed to DRM is engaging in  wishful thinking.

[coolide]

Seifz wrote...

It wasn't a merger.  It was a buyout.  The chain of command goes like this:  EA -> BioWare.  BioWare employees are paid by EA, BioWare's founders and executives are also EA executives, etc.  If BioWare folks don't want to be associated with EA, then they shouldn't be accepting EA paychecks.  As long as they do, they're EA.

EDIT:  In the interest of fairness, it might be true that BioWare has maintained some independence.  However, they have that independence because EA says they can.  They still have to answer to EA in the end.

BioWare's executives are not EA's executives.  Just like Volvo's executives are not Ford executives.

And it's pretty easy for you to tell people to quit their jobs.  Let's see you quit your job big guy.

Modifié par coolide, 02 février 2011 - 09:53 .

[Elsariel]

Seifz wrote...

Morroian wrote...

Sorwen wrote...

I have to say thank you and awesome. It is great you went with the least painful DRM choices possible.

Its not the least painful but I do think the only people with legitimate complaints about it are those who either don't have or who have bad internet connections. And even then from Fernando's post the internet check every few days isn't set in stone yet.

Or anyone who values their privacy.  Or anyone who believes that you have the right to own what you've legally purchased.  Or anyone who supports Fair Use laws.  Or...  You get the point.

Does nobody see what's happening here?  You can no longer sell PC games.  You can no longer play with your friends via LAN because companies are switching to platforms like Steam and BNet.  You can no longer reliably play single-player games on your own PC whenever you want to.  You can no longer be sure that Game Company X isn't collecting personal data to use for advertising purposes when you play their games.

You're losing functionality and features that you've enjoyed for years all in a futile attempt to curb piracy.  Why is everyone okay with that?

What should game companies do, then?  Just ignore the pirates?  Make no attempt to curb it?

[Royas]

coolide wrote...

Seifz wrote...

It wasn't a merger.  It was a buyout.  The chain of command goes like this:  EA -> BioWare.  BioWare employees are paid by EA, BioWare's founders and executives are also EA executives, etc.  If BioWare folks don't want to be associated with EA, then they shouldn't be accepting EA paychecks.  As long as they do, they're EA.

EDIT:  In the interest of fairness, it might be true that BioWare has maintained some independence.  However, they have that independence because EA says they can.  They still have to answer to EA in the end.

BioWare's executives are not EA's executives.  Just like Volvo's executives are not Ford executives.

And it's pretty easy for you to tell people to quit their jobs.  Let's see you quit your job big guy.

Actually, they are EA executives.  Muzyka and Zeschuk are both vice presidents in EA now.  And since Bioware is a wholly owned part of EA (yes, they kept the studio, but that's just a name) anybody working for Bioware is, in fact, an EA employee by default.  Again, not just my words, it was Priestly (or it might have been Woo, it's a been a coupla years) who said that "Bioware is EA".

Bioware only exists as an arm of EA nowadays.  They dance to EA's tune.  If EA says "jump", they have to ask how high while already in the air.  It's not really a debate, it's fact.

[coolide]

Yes people that work at Bioware are also employees of EA, but being an executive is different. The people who are executives at Bioware are not the same people who are executives at EA. There may be some crossover, but that is not normal.

[DJBare]

Elsariel wrote...

What should game companies do, then?  Just ignore the pirates?  Make no attempt to curb it?

Sighs, it's not an attempt to curb piracy, the gaming companies know better than us that's an impossible task, at best they can prevent release day piracy, at some point a product has to be "useable" by the consumer, this is the point of attack, I said it in another thread, this does not deter piracy, in fact it encourages it.

[coolide]

Nothing is impossible.

[DJBare]

coolide wrote...

Nothing is impossible.

A phrase I'm sure pirates use quite often.

[Seifz]

[quote]Morroian wrote...

[quote]Seifz wrote...

Or anyone who values their privacy.  Or anyone who believes that you have the right to own what you've legally purchased.  Or anyone who supports Fair Use laws.  Or...  You get the point.
[/quote]
No your being paranoid.[/quote]

No, I'm not.

From the DA2 Packaged Version EULA:
[quote]
Authentication is limited to one EA Account per serial
code. Accordingly, this Software is not transferable once Authenticated.[/quote]

A direct violation of First Sale laws.

[quote]
The technical protection measures of this Software may interfere with
certain applications, such as debuggers[/quote]

An example of the DRM affecting other applications on my PC.  Anyone remember when you couldn't play some games if you have a fancy task manager installed?

[quote]
Your right to use the Software is limited to the
license grant above, and you may not otherwise copy, display, seek to
disable, distribute, perform, publish, modify, create works from, or use the
Software or any component of it, except as expressly authorized by EA.[/quote]

Violation of Fair Use laws.

[quote]
When you play this game offline, EA and its
affiliates may collect and store non-personally identifiable data including your
Internet Protocol Address as well as game play and software usage statistics. If
and when you access online features and/or services, this data may be
transmitted to EA. EA may use this information to improve our products and
services and may share anonymous data with third parties.[/quote]

Why do they need my dynamic IP?  That's useless information unless they're using to obtain more information.  Further, this is an example that EA sells or distributes collected information to third parties.  Also, their definition of "non-personally identifiable" almost certainly doesn't match mine.

[quote]
EA AND EA’S LICENSORS (COLLECTIVELY “EA” FOR
PURPOSES OF THIS SECTION AND SECTION 7) DO NOT MAKE, AND
HEREBY DISCLAIM, ANY AND ALL EXPRESS, IMPLIED OR STATUTORY
WARRANTIES, INCLUDING IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF CONDITION,
UNINTERRUPTED USE, MERCHANTABILITY, SATISFACTORY QUALITY,
FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, NONINFRINGEMENT OF THIRD
PARTY RIGHTS, AND WARRANTIES (IF ANY) ARISING FROM A COURSE OF
DEALING, USAGE, OR TRADE PRACTICE.[/quote]

EA attempting to strip any and all rights from you, including those guaranteed by law.

[quote]
No amendment
to or modification of this License will be binding unless made in writing and
signed by EA.[/quote]

Not that you don't have to sign any changes, so they can change the license whenever they want to.

[quote]EA MAY RETIRE ONLINE FEATURES AFTER 30 DAYS NOTICE POSTED ON  WWW.EA.COM/2/SERVICE-UPDATES.[/quote]

This is from http://www.ea.com/1/product-eulas and it's the only thing we have in writing about end-of-life plans.  They make absolutely no promises that you will be able to use their software at any point in the future.  No sunset provisions are in the EULA or any other agreement that you accept.  At any time, EA can say, "In 30 days, you will no longer be able to authenticate DA2 and there's nothing that you can do about it."

Note that they shut down online services all the time.  http://www.ea.com/2/SERVICE-UPDATES

From the Privacy Policy on EA's website,
[quote]
When you use EA online and mobile products and services or you play our
games on your PC or game system, we may collect certain non-personal
demographic information including gender, zip code, information about
your computer, hardware, software, platform, game system, media, mobile
device, including device IDs, incident data, Internet Protocol (IP)
address, network Media Access Control (MAC) address and connection. We
also collect other non-personal information such as username, user ID or
persona, feature usage, game play statistics, scores and achievements,
user rankings and click paths as well as other data that you may provide
in surveys, via your account preferences and online profiles such as
friends lists or purchases, for instance. We may also receive either
non-personal or public information from third parties in connection with
market and demographic studies and/or data that we use to supplement
personal information provided directly by you.[/quote]

Paranoid?  No, EA admits that they collect all of this information.  They're checking to see what other websites you visit and what other programs you run.  How is that not an invasion of your privacy?  Is it okay for them to do this just because they promise they won't associate that data with your name?  (A claim that I doubt, by the way, and previous experiences give me good reason to do so.)

[quote]
EA’s websites, online or mobile products or services may employ third
party ad serving technologies that use cookies, clear GIFs, web beacons,
tracking pixels or other technologies to collect information as a
result of ad serving through our products or services as well as to help
track.  Some third-party dynamic in-game advertisement serving
technology enable advertising to be temporarily uploaded into your web
browser or mobile device and replaced while you are online.  We or third
parties operating the advertisement serving technology may use
demographic information such as age and gender as well as information
logged from your hardware or device to ensure that appropriate
advertising is presented within the site, online or mobile product or
service  and to calculate or control the number of unique and repeat
views of a given ad, and/or deliver ads that relate to your interests
and measure the effectiveness of ad campaigns.   We or third parties may
log data for this purpose including IP address, unique device I.D.,
device make and model, advertisement(s) served, in game location, length
of time an advertisement was visible, size of the advertisement,
advertisement response (if any), and angle of view.  The foregoing data
may be used and disclosed per this policy and the privacy policy of the
company providing the ad serving technology and to other third parties
in a form that does not personally identify you.[/quote]

Not only does EA collect that information, they allow third parties to do so.  By the way, "unique device ID" can very easily be used to identify you.

From the Terms of Use on EA's website,
[quote]
We do not guarantee that any Content or Entitlement will be available at
all times or at any given time or that we will continue to offer
particular Content or Entitlements for any particular length of time. We
reserve the right to change and update Content and Entitlements without
notice to you.  If you have not used your Entitlements or EA Account
for twenty four (24) months or more and your account has associated
Entitlements, your Entitlements will expire and your EA Account may be
cancelled for non-use.[/quote]

So basically, any and all DLC that you purchase might stop working whenever they feel like it.  Further, you might lose anything you've purchased if you choose not to play for two years.  That includes your account and, presumably, any serial keys tied to that account since they can't be transfered.  You've never gone two years without playing a game only to decide that you want to play again?  Well, too bad!

Also note that your account can be terminated for other reasons and that this would also result in loss of all entitlements, etc.

Look, maybe you're comfortable with giving up your rights and privacy and maybe you trust a company that's been shown to be quite evil in the past.  I'm not and I don't.  Regardless, don't call me paranoid when I have EA's own words to support my claims.

[Seifz]

coolide wrote...

Seifz wrote...

It wasn't a merger.  It was a buyout.  The chain of command goes like this:  EA -> BioWare.  BioWare employees are paid by EA, BioWare's founders and executives are also EA executives, etc.  If BioWare folks don't want to be associated with EA, then they shouldn't be accepting EA paychecks.  As long as they do, they're EA.

EDIT:  In the interest of fairness, it might be true that BioWare has maintained some independence.  However, they have that independence because EA says they can.  They still have to answer to EA in the end.

BioWare's executives are not EA's executives.  Just like Volvo's executives are not Ford executives.

And it's pretty easy for you to tell people to quit their jobs.  Let's see you quit your job big guy.

1.  BioWare's executives are EA executives.  All other BioWare employees are actually EA employees assigned to the BioWare studio.

2.  If I was working for a company that did things I didn't agree with, I would leave that company less I become part of those things.  I'm not asking anyone at BioWare to quit his or her job.  I'm simply saying that we shouldn't say, "It's EA's fault, BioWare is innocent."  They're not innocent.  As a poster above me said, BioWare pretty much pioneered the authenticate-on-launch DRM system.

[Stanley Woo]

Let's keep the talk of software piracy and the organizational structure of our companies out of this discussion of Dragon Age II DRM, please. thank you.

[Sylvius the Mad]

AlanC9 wrote...

Even so, what of it? Bioware pioneered online activation on launch with NWN1 Premium Modules,  years before they were acquired by EA. Anyone who thinks that an independent Bioware would be opposed to DRM is engaging in  wishful thinking.

As an aside, the NWN Premium modules, plus the quite well-run BioWare store (which no longer exists), made me hope that BioWare would begin to self-publish their games online rather than using a separate publisher to produce retail packages.

Alas, they didn't do that.  The inability to distribute full-scale games digitally to console owners may have stopped them, but they did appear to be headed in that direction before EA came along.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 02 février 2011 - 10:41 .

[Snelle Jaap]

[quote]Seifz wrote...

[quote]Morroian wrote...

[quote]Seifz wrote...

Or anyone who values their privacy.  Or anyone who believes that you have the right to own what you've legally purchased.  Or anyone who supports Fair Use laws.  Or...  You get the point.
[/quote]
No your being paranoid.[/quote]

No, I'm not.

From the DA2 Packaged Version EULA:
[quote]
Authentication is limited to one EA Account per serial
code. Accordingly, this Software is not transferable once Authenticated.[/quote]

A direct violation of First Sale laws.

[quote]
The technical protection measures of this Software may interfere with
certain applications, such as debuggers[/quote]

An example of the DRM affecting other applications on my PC.  Anyone remember when you couldn't play some games if you have a fancy task manager installed?

[quote]
Your right to use the Software is limited to the
license grant above, and you may not otherwise copy, display, seek to
disable, distribute, perform, publish, modify, create works from, or use the
Software or any component of it, except as expressly authorized by EA.[/quote]

Violation of Fair Use laws.

[quote]
When you play this game offline, EA and its
affiliates may collect and store non-personally identifiable data including your
Internet Protocol Address as well as game play and software usage statistics. If
and when you access online features and/or services, this data may be
transmitted to EA. EA may use this information to improve our products and
services and may share anonymous data with third parties.[/quote]

Why do they need my dynamic IP?  That's useless information unless they're using to obtain more information.  Further, this is an example that EA sells or distributes collected information to third parties.  Also, their definition of "non-personally identifiable" almost certainly doesn't match mine.

[quote]
EA AND EA’S LICENSORS (COLLECTIVELY “EA” FOR
PURPOSES OF THIS SECTION AND SECTION 7) DO NOT MAKE, AND
HEREBY DISCLAIM, ANY AND ALL EXPRESS, IMPLIED OR STATUTORY
WARRANTIES, INCLUDING IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF CONDITION,
UNINTERRUPTED USE, MERCHANTABILITY, SATISFACTORY QUALITY,
FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, NONINFRINGEMENT OF THIRD
PARTY RIGHTS, AND WARRANTIES (IF ANY) ARISING FROM A COURSE OF
DEALING, USAGE, OR TRADE PRACTICE.[/quote]

EA attempting to strip any and all rights from you, including those guaranteed by law.

[quote]
No amendment
to or modification of this License will be binding unless made in writing and
signed by EA.[/quote]

Not that you don't have to sign any changes, so they can change the license whenever they want to.

[quote]EA MAY RETIRE ONLINE FEATURES AFTER 30 DAYS NOTICE POSTED ON  WWW.EA.COM/2/SERVICE-UPDATES.[/quote]

This is from http://www.ea.com/1/product-eulas and it's the only thing we have in writing about end-of-life plans.  They make absolutely no promises that you will be able to use their software at any point in the future.  No sunset provisions are in the EULA or any other agreement that you accept.  At any time, EA can say, "In 30 days, you will no longer be able to authenticate DA2 and there's nothing that you can do about it."

Note that they shut down online services all the time.  http://www.ea.com/2/SERVICE-UPDATES

From the Privacy Policy on EA's website,
[quote]
When you use EA online and mobile products and services or you play our
games on your PC or game system, we may collect certain non-personal
demographic information including gender, zip code, information about
your computer, hardware, software, platform, game system, media, mobile
device, including device IDs, incident data, Internet Protocol (IP)
address, network Media Access Control (MAC) address and connection. We
also collect other non-personal information such as username, user ID or
persona, feature usage, game play statistics, scores and achievements,
user rankings and click paths as well as other data that you may provide
in surveys, via your account preferences and online profiles such as
friends lists or purchases, for instance. We may also receive either
non-personal or public information from third parties in connection with
market and demographic studies and/or data that we use to supplement
personal information provided directly by you.[/quote]

Paranoid?  No, EA admits that they collect all of this information.  They're checking to see what other websites you visit and what other programs you run.  How is that not an invasion of your privacy?  Is it okay for them to do this just because they promise they won't associate that data with your name?  (A claim that I doubt, by the way, and previous experiences give me good reason to do so.)

[quote]
EA’s websites, online or mobile products or services may employ third
party ad serving technologies that use cookies, clear GIFs, web beacons,
tracking pixels or other technologies to collect information as a
result of ad serving through our products or services as well as to help
track.  Some third-party dynamic in-game advertisement serving
technology enable advertising to be temporarily uploaded into your web
browser or mobile device and replaced while you are online.  We or third
parties operating the advertisement serving technology may use
demographic information such as age and gender as well as information
logged from your hardware or device to ensure that appropriate
advertising is presented within the site, online or mobile product or
service  and to calculate or control the number of unique and repeat
views of a given ad, and/or deliver ads that relate to your interests
and measure the effectiveness of ad campaigns.   We or third parties may
log data for this purpose including IP address, unique device I.D.,
device make and model, advertisement(s) served, in game location, length
of time an advertisement was visible, size of the advertisement,
advertisement response (if any), and angle of view.  The foregoing data
may be used and disclosed per this policy and the privacy policy of the
company providing the ad serving technology and to other third parties
in a form that does not personally identify you.[/quote]

Not only does EA collect that information, they allow third parties to do so.  By the way, "unique device ID" can very easily be used to identify you.

From the Terms of Use on EA's website,
[quote]
We do not guarantee that any Content or Entitlement will be available at
all times or at any given time or that we will continue to offer
particular Content or Entitlements for any particular length of time. We
reserve the right to change and update Content and Entitlements without
notice to you.  If you have not used your Entitlements or EA Account
for twenty four (24) months or more and your account has associated
Entitlements, your Entitlements will expire and your EA Account may be
cancelled for non-use.[/quote]

So basically, any and all DLC that you purchase might stop working whenever they feel like it.  Further, you might lose anything you've purchased if you choose not to play for two years.  That includes your account and, presumably, any serial keys tied to that account since they can't be transfered.  You've never gone two years without playing a game only to decide that you want to play again?  Well, too bad!

Also note that your account can be terminated for other reasons and that this would also result in loss of all entitlements, etc.

Look, maybe you're comfortable with giving up your rights and privacy and maybe you trust a company that's been shown to be quite evil in the past.  I'm not and I don't.  Regardless, don't call me paranoid when I have EA's own words to support my claims.
[/quote]

this post made me think.
and well its it made me even more warry of things EA BIO ...
But Thanks for the post ! 

Joins the dark side

Edit : also i don't think i will back here. (won't delete the account iam sure THEY will do that for me)

Thanks everyone and good luck
You can keep the Bioware Points

Modifié par Snelle Jaap, 03 février 2011 - 12:32 .

[TheRealJayDee]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Let's keep the talk of software piracy [...] out of this discussion of Dragon Age II DRM, please. thank you.

But isn't this what the whole DRM thing is supposed to be about? That's like asking to keep the talk of the Darkspawn out of a discussion of the Grey Wardens...

[Stanley Woo]

Maybe, but the darkspawn are not, in and of themselves, a controversial or disallowed topic of conversation in our community according to the Site rules.

[TheRealJayDee]

Okay, fair enough.

[philbo1965uk]

Royas wrote...

philbo1965uk wrote...

Reading back through several pages of interesting posts they does appear to be outrage,yet they are compiled in such a fashion as to make this issue appear new.

This has been getting worse for the last 2 years....and still people seem to miss the obvious.

Bioware have nothing to do with the DRM...they are contractually obligated to EA.

Companies like EA /Activision have a deliberate policy now.....EVERYONE on PC is to be treated as a dirty little pirate .That way as i said in an earlier post they can lock down the game and make sure any new content is via them.


These companies abhore custom content.Across genre the same has been happening .

The piracy issue is a big fat red herring.

They aren't contractually obligated to EA.

They are EA.

That's what Mr. Priestly said during that sad Mass Effect fiasco a few years back, and I've seen no evidence to contradict this.

Bioware is gone, people, has been for years.  It's just an appendage of EA now.  And EA is not your friend, it just wants your money.  Sad, but true.

Good post and very correct ...they are EA.

Nevetheless, you miss the whole point..that Bioware Devs will not.

They are the Bioware team...they make games and love doing so.They love it that we love their games...When they signed up to EA....no doubts they got a good deal...but these games are their babies.I don't think when they gave up their independance they expected the Publisher to go  this far in such a fast time period.
We have seen it with Infinity ward (fantastic Devs) ...and despite being in the same ownership and witnessing the anger from the community and eventual collapse of IW.....Treyarch had to follow suit and will no doubt collapse...these Devs knew the score and what anger DRM would bring.But they were powerless to do anything and both Infinity ward and Treyarchs reputation are in tatters.

So yes Bioware are contractually obligated...the team sold their souls for the devils shilling.They were making a few bob with our loyal support...no need to be greedy and sell us out

Modifié par philbo1965uk, 03 février 2011 - 12:46 .

[ArizaelCZ]

Very well done Bioware.



User-free protection is rarely seen nowdays. The compromise made between on-line checking and desire of player to stay offline for short period off time is brilliant.



Avoidance of the neccesity to actualy crack the games to be able to play them is making me go buy this game for sure (I will never forget the day when I've decided to have free time with my Assassins creed 2 copy and found out that Ubisoft is undergoing maintenance).

[MDarwin]

[quote]Seifz wrote...

[quote]Morroian wrote...

[quote]Seifz wrote...

Or anyone who values their privacy.  Or anyone who believes that you have the right to own what you've legally purchased.  Or anyone who supports Fair Use laws.  Or...  You get the point.
[/quote]
No your being paranoid.[/quote]

No, I'm not.

From the DA2 Packaged Version EULA:
[quote]
Authentication is limited to one EA Account per serial
code. Accordingly, this Software is not transferable once Authenticated.[/quote]

A direct violation of First Sale laws.

[quote]
The technical protection measures of this Software may interfere with
certain applications, such as debuggers[/quote]

An example of the DRM affecting other applications on my PC.  Anyone remember when you couldn't play some games if you have a fancy task manager installed?

[quote]
Your right to use the Software is limited to the
license grant above, and you may not otherwise copy, display, seek to
disable, distribute, perform, publish, modify, create works from, or use the
Software or any component of it, except as expressly authorized by EA.[/quote]

Violation of Fair Use laws.

[quote]
When you play this game offline, EA and its
affiliates may collect and store non-personally identifiable data including your
Internet Protocol Address as well as game play and software usage statistics. If
and when you access online features and/or services, this data may be
transmitted to EA. EA may use this information to improve our products and
services and may share anonymous data with third parties.[/quote]

Why do they need my dynamic IP?  That's useless information unless they're using to obtain more information.  Further, this is an example that EA sells or distributes collected information to third parties.  Also, their definition of "non-personally identifiable" almost certainly doesn't match mine.

[quote]
EA AND EA’S LICENSORS (COLLECTIVELY “EA” FOR
PURPOSES OF THIS SECTION AND SECTION 7) DO NOT MAKE, AND
HEREBY DISCLAIM, ANY AND ALL EXPRESS, IMPLIED OR STATUTORY
WARRANTIES, INCLUDING IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF CONDITION,
UNINTERRUPTED USE, MERCHANTABILITY, SATISFACTORY QUALITY,
FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, NONINFRINGEMENT OF THIRD
PARTY RIGHTS, AND WARRANTIES (IF ANY) ARISING FROM A COURSE OF
DEALING, USAGE, OR TRADE PRACTICE.[/quote]

EA attempting to strip any and all rights from you, including those guaranteed by law.

[quote]
No amendment
to or modification of this License will be binding unless made in writing and
signed by EA.[/quote]

Not that you don't have to sign any changes, so they can change the license whenever they want to.

[quote]EA MAY RETIRE ONLINE FEATURES AFTER 30 DAYS NOTICE POSTED ON  WWW.EA.COM/2/SERVICE-UPDATES.[/quote]

This is from http://www.ea.com/1/product-eulas and it's the only thing we have in writing about end-of-life plans.  They make absolutely no promises that you will be able to use their software at any point in the future.  No sunset provisions are in the EULA or any other agreement that you accept.  At any time, EA can say, "In 30 days, you will no longer be able to authenticate DA2 and there's nothing that you can do about it."

Note that they shut down online services all the time.  http://www.ea.com/2/SERVICE-UPDATES

From the Privacy Policy on EA's website,
[quote]
When you use EA online and mobile products and services or you play our
games on your PC or game system, we may collect certain non-personal
demographic information including gender, zip code, information about
your computer, hardware, software, platform, game system, media, mobile
device, including device IDs, incident data, Internet Protocol (IP)
address, network Media Access Control (MAC) address and connection. We
also collect other non-personal information such as username, user ID or
persona, feature usage, game play statistics, scores and achievements,
user rankings and click paths as well as other data that you may provide
in surveys, via your account preferences and online profiles such as
friends lists or purchases, for instance. We may also receive either
non-personal or public information from third parties in connection with
market and demographic studies and/or data that we use to supplement
personal information provided directly by you.[/quote]

Paranoid?  No, EA admits that they collect all of this information.  They're checking to see what other websites you visit and what other programs you run.  How is that not an invasion of your privacy?  Is it okay for them to do this just because they promise they won't associate that data with your name?  (A claim that I doubt, by the way, and previous experiences give me good reason to do so.)

[quote]
EA’s websites, online or mobile products or services may employ third
party ad serving technologies that use cookies, clear GIFs, web beacons,
tracking pixels or other technologies to collect information as a
result of ad serving through our products or services as well as to help
track.  Some third-party dynamic in-game advertisement serving
technology enable advertising to be temporarily uploaded into your web
browser or mobile device and replaced while you are online.  We or third
parties operating the advertisement serving technology may use
demographic information such as age and gender as well as information
logged from your hardware or device to ensure that appropriate
advertising is presented within the site, online or mobile product or
service  and to calculate or control the number of unique and repeat
views of a given ad, and/or deliver ads that relate to your interests
and measure the effectiveness of ad campaigns.   We or third parties may
log data for this purpose including IP address, unique device I.D.,
device make and model, advertisement(s) served, in game location, length
of time an advertisement was visible, size of the advertisement,
advertisement response (if any), and angle of view.  The foregoing data
may be used and disclosed per this policy and the privacy policy of the
company providing the ad serving technology and to other third parties
in a form that does not personally identify you.[/quote]

Not only does EA collect that information, they allow third parties to do so.  By the way, "unique device ID" can very easily be used to identify you.

From the Terms of Use on EA's website,
[quote]
We do not guarantee that any Content or Entitlement will be available at
all times or at any given time or that we will continue to offer
particular Content or Entitlements for any particular length of time. We
reserve the right to change and update Content and Entitlements without
notice to you.  If you have not used your Entitlements or EA Account
for twenty four (24) months or more and your account has associated
Entitlements, your Entitlements will expire and your EA Account may be
cancelled for non-use.[/quote]

So basically, any and all DLC that you purchase might stop working whenever they feel like it.  Further, you might lose anything you've purchased if you choose not to play for two years.  That includes your account and, presumably, any serial keys tied to that account since they can't be transfered.  You've never gone two years without playing a game only to decide that you want to play again?  Well, too bad!

Also note that your account can be terminated for other reasons and that this would also result in loss of all entitlements, etc.

Look, maybe you're comfortable with giving up your rights and privacy and maybe you trust a company that's been shown to be quite evil in the past.  I'm not and I don't.  Regardless, don't call me paranoid when I have EA's own words to support my claims.
[/quote]

They can make money with it, as well.

Well, I hope they clearly will state what the DRM will do (DA2)! Not "friggin" Happy! <_<

[coolide]

That's all information that credit card companies, search engines, and cell phone companies also collect. Do you not use a credit card, make purchases online, use search engines, or use cell phones?

And a lot of that stuff is just general waiver stuff that their lawyers make them disclose whether they practice that stuff or not just so they can prevent lawsuits for not disclosing it.

Modifié par coolide, 03 février 2011 - 12:58 .