976 réponses à ce sujet

[philbo1965uk]

Elsariel wrote...

Seifz wrote...

Morroian wrote...

Sorwen wrote...

I have to say thank you and awesome. It is great you went with the least painful DRM choices possible.

Its not the least painful but I do think the only people with legitimate complaints about it are those who either don't have or who have bad internet connections. And even then from Fernando's post the internet check every few days isn't set in stone yet.

Or anyone who values their privacy.  Or anyone who believes that you have the right to own what you've legally purchased.  Or anyone who supports Fair Use laws.  Or...  You get the point.

Does nobody see what's happening here?  You can no longer sell PC games.  You can no longer play with your friends via LAN because companies are switching to platforms like Steam and BNet.  You can no longer reliably play single-player games on your own PC whenever you want to.  You can no longer be sure that Game Company X isn't collecting personal data to use for advertising purposes when you play their games.

You're losing functionality and features that you've enjoyed for years all in a futile attempt to curb piracy.  Why is everyone okay with that?

What should game companies do, then?  Just ignore the pirates?  Make no attempt to curb it?

Finally....great question !!!

Let me tell you what they should do about it. I apologise for the caps but i want to shout it.

WE SUPPORT YOU IN YOUR ENDEVOURS OF CURBING PIRACY....BECAUSE WE PAY FOR OUR GAMES.BUT THIS IS ALL WE EXPECT...WE WANT TO JUST PUT OUR GAME IN THE CD TRAY AND PLAY IT !

NO INTRUSIVE DRM,NO LOGGING INTO INTERNET SITES...WE BOUGHT IT.

AS WE SAY WE SUPPORT YOU ...BUT INVEST IN BETTER ENCRYPTION FOR YOUR GAMES AND STOP CRIPPLING US.

Shame that won't make a blind bit of difference..but someone had to shout it.At least when the sh..hits the fan and Biowares reputation goes up in smoke....they were told.

[aerowars617]

I for one am glad I won't have to have the disk in the drive, it'll make switching between ME2 & DA2 that much easier as I'll only have 1 DVD (ME2's) to worry about. Plus once its installed I can forget about the DA2 DVD Thanks BioWare!

Modifié par aerowars617, 03 février 2011 - 01:07 .

[Argoyne]

This for me is a curse, I have a strict no online policy for my games. I skipped Starcraft 2 because of it and I'm really not sure I'm willing to put it aside for DA2.

My perspective on this is that it has nothing to do with piracy this doesn't stop or remotely mitigate any piratical activity what it does is ensure all legitimate owners are all setup to buy dlc and that they are a moments lack of concentration away from sending various data on themselves, gameplay data primarily. It also encourages you to link it all up with facebook, EAs big push, and most likely will have options to spam all your play achievements etc to your account.

Any way the point is that piracy is not an issue here control and access to the legitimate user is. In a way companies have accepted piracy and instead seek ways to gain increased value from their legitimate users though dlc (and advertising of such though the game client) and data-mining. The reasons I oppose this is I don't trust companies and therefore see no end to how far they will push the monetising

If you think my idea is weird look for the interview with some guy from EA talking about "encouraging" the developers he works with to see the benefits of adding online and facebook hooks etc.

In short stop talking about piracy this choice has nothing to do with it.

Modifié par Argoyne, 03 février 2011 - 02:35 .

[Royas]

aerowars617 wrote...

I for one am glad I won't have to have the disk in the drive, it'll make switching between ME2 & DA2 that much easier as I'll only have 1 DVD (ME2's) to worry about. Plus once its installed I can forget about the DA2 DVD Thanks BioWare!

I can honestly say that I never understood what the problem was with disk checks.  Am I the only person who takes care of his disks and stores them away so I can find them?  To me a disk check is the most convenient, least intrusive DRM available.  No need for the dev or publisher to keep a server up, no third parties dumping junk drivers on your computer, no worries about the company being around tomorrow.  Just plug and play.  And that's what I want out of my games, I don't want to have to associate with the publisher or the developer after purchasing a game.  Just like I don't want to have to communicate with the maker of my pencil or my soda after I purchase those products.

The only interaction I want with BioEA is this... I go to the strore.  I buy the game.  End of association, thank you very much, now go away.

[MDarwin]

coolide wrote...

That's all information that credit card companies, search engines, and cell phone companies also collect. Do you not use a credit card, make purchases online, use search engines, or use cell phones?

And a lot of that stuff is just general waiver stuff that their lawyers make them disclose whether they practice that stuff or not just so they can prevent lawsuits for not disclosing it.

If you make a donation because of your "symphaty" with a given disaster, that's when hell breaks loose. When they offer you a free advertising(for your donation) somewhere in a booklet, trust me, don't do it! <_<

So far, I had no bad expierinces with the ones you mentioned. I guess just lucky me, so far.

[philbo1965uk]

edit...wasn't warranted.

Modifié par philbo1965uk, 03 février 2011 - 01:49 .

[slimgrin]

Perhaps I need to take off my tinfoil hat, but I think online registration, online accounts, and required connectivity have more to do with advertising opportunities and the like than they do with stopping piracy. I'll never forget the hassle of installing GTA4 on my pc and all the useless crap and bloatware that came with it.

Does Bioware follow the torrents? Do they actually have an idea on how much DA was pirated? Is that why they clinched down even harder this time with restrictive DRM?

I just don't understand why video game publishers feel entitled to overarching, invasive DRM procedures when publishers in other media do not.

It would be really nice for a dev to educate me here. Maybe I'm way off base.

Modifié par slimgrin, 03 février 2011 - 01:55 .

[Seifz]

slimgrin wrote...

Perhaps I need to take off my tinfoil hat, but I think online registration, online accounts, and required connectivity have more to do with advertising opportunities and the like than they do with stopping piracy. I'll never forget the hassle of installing GTA4 on my pc and all the useless crap and bloatware that came with it.

Does Bioware follow the torrents? Do they actually have an idea on how much DA was pirated? Is that why they clinched down even harder this time with restrictive DRM?

I just don't understand why video game publishers feel entitled to overarching, invasive DRM procedures when publishers in other media do not.

It would be really nice for a dev to educate me here. Maybe I'm way off base.

I'm sure that all major studios follow the scene and take note of how quickly their games are cracked, how often they're downloaded, etc.  They'd be stupid not to, really.  But that's no excuse for stripping rights away from their paying customers.  The EULA that we need to sign for DA2 actually violates the law numerous times.  Most of those violations are a result of the DRM that we're being asked to accept.  I can't believe how many people are okay with this.

I want to maintain my right to resell this game if I chose to do so.
I want to maintain my right to play this game as often as I'd like, whenever I'd like, and wherever I'd like.
I want to maintain my right to make archival copies of this game in case of disc failure.
I want to maintain my right to privacy in regards to the information on my computer, including my browsing habits.

The EULA and ToS strip me of all these rights as part of the overall DRM scheme.  That's not acceptable.

EDIT:  And before anyone suggests it, I'm not a "pirate".  I've never once pirated a PC game, movie, or music track.  I'm simply a consumer that sees my rights being taken away an at alarming rate and I want it to stop.

Modifié par Seifz, 03 février 2011 - 02:03 .

[packardbell]

Seifz wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Perhaps I need to take off my tinfoil hat, but I think online registration, online accounts, and required connectivity have more to do with advertising opportunities and the like than they do with stopping piracy. I'll never forget the hassle of installing GTA4 on my pc and all the useless crap and bloatware that came with it.

Does Bioware follow the torrents? Do they actually have an idea on how much DA was pirated? Is that why they clinched down even harder this time with restrictive DRM?

I just don't understand why video game publishers feel entitled to overarching, invasive DRM procedures when publishers in other media do not.

It would be really nice for a dev to educate me here. Maybe I'm way off base.

I'm sure that all major studios follow the scene and take note of how quickly their games are cracked, how often they're downloaded, etc.  They'd be stupid not to, really.  But that's no excuse for stripping rights away from their paying customers.  The EULA that we need to sign for DA2 actually violates the law numerous times.  Most of those violations are a result of the DRM that we're being asked to accept.  I can't believe how many people are okay with this.

I want to maintain my right to resell this game if I chose to do so.
I want to maintain my right to play this game as often as I'd like, whenever I'd like, and wherever I'd like.
I want to maintain my right to make archival copies of this game in case of disc failure.
I want to maintain my right to privacy in regards to the information on my computer, including my browsing habits.

The EULA and ToS strip me of all these rights as part of the overall DRM scheme.  That's not acceptable.

EDIT:  And before anyone suggests it, I'm not a "pirate".  I've never once pirated a PC game, movie, or music track.  I'm simply a consumer that sees my rights being taken away an at alarming rate and I want it to stop.

Well for one how can you resell a PC game once the serial has been used, and registered? Disc failure? Keep the game installed. 

[coolide]

What's stopping you from selling the game? Nothing. You can use the same game on five different computers in a 24 hour period. That sounds like it would allow you to sell it.



Like I said earlier, you are making a big deal about nothing. You are clearly uninformed about how it works and its consequences.



By the way, you do realize that Google documents everything you search, as well as every link you click on. It then gathers this information and uses it in its advertising. Your internet provider also likely logs everything you browse as well. So if you're so concerned about EA logging what you browse, which I highly doubt they can or will, you should never ever use the Internet. So I guess this is goodbye.

[slimgrin]

Not interested in selling the game. I want to be able to play it without an internet connection.

This is not an unreasonable request.

Modifié par slimgrin, 03 février 2011 - 02:26 .

[tishyw]

Royas wrote...

I can honestly say that I never understood what the problem was with disk checks.  Am I the only person who takes care of his disks and stores them away so I can find them?  To me a disk check is the most convenient, least intrusive DRM available.  No need for the dev or publisher to keep a server up, no third parties dumping junk drivers on your computer, no worries about the company being around tomorrow.  Just plug and play.  And that's what I want out of my games, I don't want to have to associate with the publisher or the developer after purchasing a game.  Just like I don't want to have to communicate with the maker of my pencil or my soda after I purchase those products.

The only interaction I want with BioEA is this... I go to the strore.  I buy the game.  End of association, thank you very much, now go away.

No, you're not the only one, I find the need for the game to phone home every few day's far more intrusive and problematic than having to have the disk in the computer.

[tishyw]

coolide wrote...

What's stopping you from selling the game? Nothing. You can use the same game on five different computers in a 24 hour period. That sounds like it would allow you to sell it.

Like I said earlier, you are making a big deal about nothing. You are clearly uninformed about how it works and its consequences.

By the way, you do realize that Google documents everything you search, as well as every link you click on. It then gathers this information and uses it in its advertising. Your internet provider also likely logs everything you browse as well. So if you're so concerned about EA logging what you browse, which I highly doubt they can or will, you should never ever use the Internet. So I guess this is goodbye.

I'm glad that you don't have a problem with the DRM coolide I really am, but you've been trolling this thread for a couple of day's now, and you need to stop insulting others.  From our perspective, it is you who is clearly uninformed.

[coolide]

slimgrin wrote...

Not interested in selling the game. I want to be able to play it without an internet connection.

This is not an unreasonable request.

It was more directed at Seifz.  But what is the big deal with needing an internet connection?  You are using one right now.

[coolide]

tishyw wrote...

coolide wrote...

What's stopping you from selling the game? Nothing. You can use the same game on five different computers in a 24 hour period. That sounds like it would allow you to sell it.

Like I said earlier, you are making a big deal about nothing. You are clearly uninformed about how it works and its consequences.

By the way, you do realize that Google documents everything you search, as well as every link you click on. It then gathers this information and uses it in its advertising. Your internet provider also likely logs everything you browse as well. So if you're so concerned about EA logging what you browse, which I highly doubt they can or will, you should never ever use the Internet. So I guess this is goodbye.

I'm glad that you don't have a problem with the DRM coolide I really am, but you've been trolling this thread for a couple of day's now, and you need to stop insulting others.  From our perspective, it is you who is clearly uninformed.

Oh so I have a different opinion than you guys and I'm a troll?  I see how it is.  Anyone disagrees with you and they're a troll.  There is no way that they're right and you're wrong.  No way.

[AlanC9]

Seifz wrote...
  The EULA that we need to sign for DA2 actually violates the law numerous times.  Most of those violations are a result of the DRM that we're being asked to accept.  I can't believe how many people are okay with this.

I want to maintain my right to resell this game if I chose to do so.
I want to maintain my right to play this game as often as I'd like, whenever I'd like, and wherever I'd like.
I want to maintain my right to make archival copies of this game in case of disc failure.
I want to maintain my right to privacy in regards to the information on my computer, including my browsing habits.

The EULA and ToS strip me of all these rights as part of the overall DRM scheme.  That's not acceptable.

This is incoherent. If the EULA really does violate the law, then it is void and it can't strip you of any rights.

You need to pick one of these.

[Morroian]

Argoyne wrote...

My perspective on this is that it has nothing to do with piracy this doesn't stop or remotely mitigate any piratical activity what it does is ensure all legitimate owners are all setup to buy dlc and that they are a moments lack of concentration away from sending various data on themselves, gameplay data primarily. It also encourages you to link it all up with facebook, EAs big push, and most likely will have options to spam all your play achievements etc to your account.

And............... whats the problem with any of that? If you can't resist not entering into anything you don't want to despite the game making it easier thats your fault, not Bioware's or EAs. 

[Argoyne]

I did not say it was a problem that it did these things that its presented as a means to prevent piracy when its not is an issue. I am entirely happy with the choice being their its the conflating of required online with anti-piracy that is the issue if I'm not online I have no risk of agreeing.  

To be clear I am thinking of more than just Bioware the online stuff was clear enough in DA its just if you think every dev/publisher will shy away from confusing wording or switched meaning checkboxes well.

Modifié par Argoyne, 03 février 2011 - 03:07 .

[Holy_Shielder]

coolide wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Not interested in selling the game. I want to be able to play it without an internet connection.

This is not an unreasonable request.

It was more directed at Seifz.  But what is the big deal with needing an internet connection?  You are using one right now.

If you hhad read earlier posts in this thread you would have already seen the argument settled that just because you can post of a thread doesn't mean you have the same internet access from the comp you play your games with. Some people only have access at work or at school, or even just an iphone. That doesnt mean you have a constant connection for your game.

[Holy_Shielder]

coolide wrote...

tishyw wrote...

coolide wrote...

What's stopping you from selling the game? Nothing. You can use the same game on five different computers in a 24 hour period. That sounds like it would allow you to sell it.

Like I said earlier, you are making a big deal about nothing. You are clearly uninformed about how it works and its consequences.

By the way, you do realize that Google documents everything you search, as well as every link you click on. It then gathers this information and uses it in its advertising. Your internet provider also likely logs everything you browse as well. So if you're so concerned about EA logging what you browse, which I highly doubt they can or will, you should never ever use the Internet. So I guess this is goodbye.

I'm glad that you don't have a problem with the DRM coolide I really am, but you've been trolling this thread for a couple of day's now, and you need to stop insulting others.  From our perspective, it is you who is clearly uninformed.

Oh so I have a different opinion than you guys and I'm a troll?  I see how it is.  Anyone disagrees with you and they're a troll.  There is no way that they're right and you're wrong.  No way.

I agree with tishyw. It not that you have a different opinion that you are a troll, frankly if your fine with this type of DRM good for you, we don't really care. Whats making you a troll is that you are critising other peoples valid issues and opinions about this DRM, so really its just you who is critising us for having a different opinion.

[Unato]

I said it a few times in this thread I think, I'm just against intrusive drm which IMO this dial home mechanism is ( granted it hasn't started been to be set in stone ) I don't see why EA can't give consumers options like other developers. If ppl can't get online to authenticate then let them play the game with the disc in the tray instead of locking them out

[Morroian]

Argoyne wrote...

I did not say it was a problem that it did these things that its presented as a means to prevent piracy when its not is an issue. I am entirely happy with the choice being their its the conflating of required online with anti-piracy that is the issue if I'm not online I have no risk of agreeing.  

But it is a means to curb at least some piracy, casual piracy like lending the games to friends.

[Morroian]

Unato wrote...

I said it a few times in this thread I think, I'm just against intrusive drm which IMO this dial home mechanism is

Its not intrusive if you have a broadband connection.

[Argoyne]

Except it doesn't do that as it can be legitimately installed on their computers and played with some caveats if I understand the requirements