976 réponses à ce sujet

[JigPig]

MDarwin wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

MDarwin wrote...

I once left my comp on. Boy was I unkucky on that night. Since than, if I don't wanna use the net, I switch the modem off.

What kind of unlucky are we talking about here, anyway?

Well, it was a damn logger/spam program which got in. My machine run with a lot of slag, programs just didn't "fire up". And stupid Norton, didn't recognized any of it. So I fdisked my machine and crossed my fingers on re-installing everything.

Just all save stuff I done for my NWN mods and my 3d programs was gone. Back than I had only 1 comp. Now I got 2. Just in case. Plus, whatever else I lost on that machine. 

No, really, just stop.

The sheer amount of your ignorance on that entire subject is just horrifying.

Leaving your PC idle, connected to the internet, will not allow "damn logger/spam program(s)" to mysteriously weasel their way into your PC. It isn't a damned flood gate.

Modifié par JigPig, 03 février 2011 - 07:32 .

[AlanC9]

I gotta go with JigPig here. You probably got hit when you were using the PC, not when you weren't.

[kgersen]

wyvvern wrote...
Nah - that's why they tie it to one account. But that could be done without phoning in to the server every X days.

I didn't noticed that you were talking only about the "phone home every X days" part, I thought you were talking about the DRM as a whole.

wyvvern wrote...
Mind you I agree that they do want to make an end run around the First Sale doctrine. That's a class Action lawsuit waiting to happen, IMO. Only remains to be seen which actual game company gets slammed with it.

You can't do a class action for anything, you need first to have a valid case. The EULA is not stronger than laws... but it doesn't means that you can safely ignore it. If you accepted an EULA in which it is written that you accept to have the game tied to your account and therefore impossible to resale, it might be hard to come later and says that you changed your mind and want your re-sale right back.

They could also go the Steam way and claim that they don't sell you a game or even a license for a game but only a "subscription", I don't know if subscriptions are covered by first sale doctrine.

[Patrickblah]

 thats awesome now i can play da2 overseas next year

[Katorskay]

kgersen wrote...

The EULA is not stronger than laws... but it doesn't means that you can safely ignore it. If you accepted an EULA in which it is written that you accept to have the game tied to your account and therefore impossible to resale, it might be hard to come later and says that you changed your mind and want your re-sale right back.

EULAs never hold up in court.

By your logical an EULA could say "If you agree to this we're allowed to access your account and charge your credit card any amount we wish" and it would be legal because HURR YOU ACCEPTED IT IN AN EULA!

[MDarwin]

AlanC9 wrote...

I gotta go with JigPig here. You probably got hit when you were using the PC, not when you weren't.

I honestly don't know. I really can't even tell (which I should have clarified better) what sort of "program/Spam/Logger/Virus and what ever else, would be able to do this. I am not good with the "net stuff".

Tho you might/could be right, as well as JigPig. My habit since than is to switch off the modem.

So far so good.

That is the reason why I do not like "intrusive programs" on my comp. In this case the DA2 DRM. That is my personal preference. It's maybe just in this case "paranoia" on my side, but I don't wanna  risk it.

Plus I would like to know if EA/BW will pass on my data they collect, to third partys.

[Melca36]

JigPig wrote...

MDarwin wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

MDarwin wrote...

I once left my comp on. Boy was I unkucky on that night. Since than, if I don't wanna use the net, I switch the modem off.

What kind of unlucky are we talking about here, anyway?

Well, it was a damn logger/spam program which got in. My machine run with a lot of slag, programs just didn't "fire up". And stupid Norton, didn't recognized any of it. So I fdisked my machine and crossed my fingers on re-installing everything.

Just all save stuff I done for my NWN mods and my 3d programs was gone. Back than I had only 1 comp. Now I got 2. Just in case. Plus, whatever else I lost on that machine. 

No, really, just stop.

The sheer amount of your ignorance on that entire subject is just horrifying.

Leaving your PC idle, connected to the internet, will not allow "damn logger/spam program(s)" to mysteriously weasel their way into your PC. It isn't a damned flood gate.

I agree. People get infected when they click on things they should not click on. 

If people invested in a decent virus software, not use explore and use firefox with adblock and noscript plugins, they would not have that problem.

[Melca36]

MDarwin wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

MDarwin wrote...

I once left my comp on. Boy was I unkucky on that night. Since than, if I don't wanna use the net, I switch the modem off.

What kind of unlucky are we talking about here, anyway?

Well, it was a damn logger/spam program which got in. My machine run with a lot of slag, programs just didn't "fire up". And stupid Norton, didn't recognized any of it. So I fdisked my machine and crossed my fingers on re-installing everything.

Just all save stuff I done for my NWN mods and my 3d programs was gone. Back than I had only 1 comp. Now I got 2. Just in case. Plus, whatever else I lost on that machine. 

Sorry to tell you this, but malware programs don't just worm their way in. You had to have clicked on something when you were surfing. You left your computer on and thats how it happened.

[Melca36]

Get it from Steam. Steam has an OFFLINE mode when your connection is down.

[MDarwin]

[quote]Melca36 wrote...

*Snipp*

[/quote]


I agree. People get infected when they click on things they should not click on. 

If people invested in a decent virus software, not use explore and use firefox with adblock and noscript plugins, they would not have that problem.



[/quote]

Back then I used Mozilla had plug ins for it and used Norton Antivirus. Can't remember if I clicked on something which I shouldn't have. The only thing I dl on that day were seamless Textures in jpg format. 
That was on a "trusted side". Never had any trouble there. Yeah, I just don't know.

[Absarka]

I don't mind the authentication on install - I'll be registering my copy on the site anyway.

But I don't like this 'phone home every so often'. Like others have said, if I've already proven that I have a legitimate copy of the game with authentication on initial install, why do you need to keep reassuring yourselves of that? If this measure is a trade-off to not having to play the game with the disc installed, I'd rather have the disc-check, thanks.

[tishyw]

Fernando Melo wrote...

First, a reminder to keep it civil and within the rules laid out - this includes comments on pirating please.

- snip -

This is exactly like ME1's DRM:

Well, actually in DRM terms under the hood this is light years away from that.

Amongst other DRM related issues, ME1 (and other titles with similar DRM setups) had a massive outcry largely because:
- It used Securom, or other 3rd party commercial drm, which players had several complaints about including not fully uninstalling itself
- It had a hard limit on the number of machines you could install to, and although rare this could occasionally not add up correctly
- It had no method of de-authorizing itself from a machine (at launch time, this was made available later), which further aggravated the errors in the previous point if those occured
- It had to phone home every 10days (or in some titles, always)


This system, apart from being much more user and system friendly in a lot more subtle ways than most commercial drm software, has none of the first 3 items/restrictions.  And the jury is still out on the last item on the list (including whether to even have this).

So for those already tearing hair out in frustration - this is entirely your prerogative of course - if your concern really is only that final item I'd suggest waiting until that is actually decided on.

F.

Hi Fernando, Thanks for the update, my only concern is the last item, I feel that a single-player game should not need to keep connecting to the internet to play, that's where I draw the line.  Do you have any idea of when we'll be finding out if the phoning home issue is definately in or out, and how frequent it will be if it's in?  Whether ny signature edition order get's cancelled or not depends on this answer, so the sooner we know, the better.

Thanks very much.

[Melca36]

[quote]MDarwin wrote...

[quote]Melca36 wrote...

*Snipp*

[/quote]


I agree. People get infected when they click on things they should not click on. 

If people invested in a decent virus software, not use explore and use firefox with adblock and noscript plugins, they would not have that problem.



[/quote]




Back then I used Mozilla had plug ins for it and used Norton Antivirus. Can't remember if I clicked on something which I shouldn't have. The only thing I dl on that day were seamless Textures in jpg format. 
That was on a "trusted side". Never had any trouble there. Yeah, I just don't know.




[/quote]


Excuse me for being harsh in my last post. Please accept my apologies for that.   I have gotten malware too so I  do understand.

You actually can get malware from downloading jpgs and other simple things. All it takes is a simple script.

Also do you have a router?  A router help keep you safe. 

[kentan900]

I used to use Norton befor and I remember well that it gave me alot of false claims for having somekind of infected file. Not sure how it is now tho.

I recommend that you get Malwarebytes. Its a free scanning program that can detect alot of hidden virus and it gets a new update very often so you will be up to date.

Scan when your not home since the scan takes about 2½ hours to do .

- Chris

Modifié par kentan900, 04 février 2011 - 12:27 .

[MDarwin]

[quote]Melca36 wrote...

[quote]MDarwin wrote...

[quote]Melca36 wrote...

*Snipp*

[/quote]


I agree. People get infected when they click on things they should not click on. 

If people invested in a decent virus software, not use explore and use firefox with adblock and noscript plugins, they would not have that problem.



[/quote]




Back then I used Mozilla had plug ins for it and used Norton Antivirus. Can't remember if I clicked on something which I shouldn't have. The only thing I dl on that day were seamless Textures in jpg format. 
That was on a "trusted side". Never had any trouble there. Yeah, I just don't know.




[/quote]


Excuse me for being harsh in my last post. Please accept my apologies for that.   I have gotten malware too so I  do understand.

You actually can get malware from downloading jpgs and other simple things. All it takes is a simple script.

Also do you have a router?  A router help keep you safe. 

[/quote]

Your alright, no need to apologise.   Na. no router, just a plain modem.  What "peed" me off was, that Norton didn't picked whatever it was, up! Spend good money on something and then that!

I 've gone that "paranoid" that I don't wanna use Facebook/Twitter and what have you not! Quite scary, my "paranoia".

[In Exile]

Katorskay wrote..

EULAs never hold up in court.

By your logical an EULA could say "If you agree to this we're allowed to access your account and charge your credit card any amount we wish" and it would be legal because HURR YOU ACCEPTED IT IN AN EULA!

EULAs have held up in court. They are contracts of adhesion, but not all contracts of adhesion get thrown out.

[Royas]

Noviere wrote...

To me, this DRM seems reasonable. I don't like DRM, but let's face facts... It's a part of this industry(despite a few exceptions). This seems minimally invasive.

Interesting that just a few years ago, when this exact same DRM was proposed for Mass Effect the boards almost melted under the firestorm that immediately erupted.  Now, it's minimally intrusive.  It's only minimally intrusive compared to Ubisoft, it's still a lot more intrusive than a disc check or a serial number.  And will be about as effective against piracy.  Which is to say, not at all.

Does serious damage to the used game market, which we all know is the real goal.

[MDarwin]

kentan900 wrote...

I used to use Norton befor and I remember well that it gave me alot of false claims for having somekind of infected file. Not sure how it is now tho.

I recommend that you get Malwarebytes. Its a free scanning program that can detect alot of hidden virus and it gets a new update very often so you will be up to date.

Scan when your not home since the scan takes about 2½ hours to do .

- Chris

Thanks for that! I don't use Norton any longer. I use Avast at the moment as AV.

[KawaiiKatie]

What about sunset/EA gone/20years from now?
There are sunset plans in place for all our titles.  Each one can be different, but most common solution is that the online requirement would be patched out.

Can someone please explain to me how that would work? Are "sunset plans" different than a patch? I understand that if a patch went out, it would eliminate the login checks... but what if I miss the patch? Would the "sunset plans" later on take care of it? What would that entail?

Okay, hypothetical situation, because that's the only way I know how to explain myself. Say ten years from now, a patch goes out that eliminates the login checks, but I miss it. Ten years after that, my children want to play some of my old video games (say, DA2?) but I can't share it with them because the login checks are impossible to complete. Would "sunset plans" fix this? Or would I be out of luck because I missed the patch? Or... would the patch and "sunset plans" be the same thing?

Modifié par KawaiiKatie, 04 février 2011 - 01:00 .

[Eurypterid]

KawaiiKatie wrote...
Can someone please explain to me how that would work? Are "sunset plans" different than a patch? I understand that if a patch went out, it would eliminate the login checks... but what if I miss the patch? Would the "sunset plans" later on take care of it? What would that entail?

Okay, hypothetical situation, because that's the only way I know how to explain myself. Say ten years from now, a patch goes out that eliminates the login checks, but I miss it. Ten years after that, my children want to play some of my old video games (say, DA2?) but I can't share it with them because the login checks are impossible to complete. Would "sunset plans" fix this? Or would I be out of luck because I missed the patch? Or... would the patch and "sunset plans" be the same thing?

'Sunset plans' refer to a patch that would be released to eliminate the DRM checks. So yes, if you didn't get the patch you'd be out of luck. That being said, there would likely be numerous places that would host that kind of patch and you'd very likely be able to find it if needed.

[KawaiiKatie]

Eurypterid wrote...
'Sunset plans' refer to a patch that would be released to eliminate the DRM checks. So yes, if you didn't get the patch you'd be out of luck.

Oh, so it's all the same thing. I feel silly now, but I was honestly confused. 
(EDIT: Thanks for explaining! That was really helpful.)

Ugh, I guess if I want to share this stuff with my kids some day, I'll have to stay on top of the patches, huh? I'm just worried because, you know, life gets in the way, and you don't always think about DRM patches and whatnot... It only comes up when the kids are looking through boxes of your old stuff and they say "What's GoldenEye 007?" that you really think about it...

That being said, there would likely be numerous places that would host
that kind of patch and you'd very likely be able to find it if needed.

Ah, that's good to know! I hope my future-google-fu is up to the test! *crosses fingers*

Modifié par KawaiiKatie, 04 février 2011 - 01:18 .

[jhnxsmth]

Bioware, I agree that it's a good thing to ban language that incites illegal activity, but let us be honest, let us conduct this discussion in light of the most basic facts:



Allot of people are not installing this till someone patches it. If that patch comes on its own, FANTASTIC: they will definitely buy the game.

If that patch is bundled with an illegal copy of the game, FANTASTIC: they may or may not have already purchased the game, and they may or may not ever get around to it.



I bought DA1, and I have a loggin here. I'm so friggin lazy that I've never linked the two. That is your market.

[Torhagen]

Noviere wrote...

To me, this DRM seems reasonable. I don't like DRM, but let's face facts... It's a part of this industry(despite a few exceptions). This seems minimally invasive.

Its very sad that people are just too lazy or have simply forgotten that we the customers are the one with the power
as evidenced by the last time EA/bioware tried to introduce such a DRM.

This DRM idea will be buried again if the customer wants it to(by not buying games with disscused DRM) to so that the "Industry" hopefully learns.

P.S i have absolutely no Problem with a once-internet-activation even a release check would be okay in my book

[slimgrin]

Any comment yet on the number of days we are allowed to play the game before checking in with big brother?

Modifié par slimgrin, 04 février 2011 - 03:32 .

[Morroian]

slimgrin wrote...

Any comment yet on the number of days we are allowed to play the game before checking in with big brother?

They haven't even decided whether it will definitely be in or not.