976 réponses à ce sujet

[FellowerOfOdin]

ladydesire wrote...
Stop saying that broadband internet access is cheap and readily accessible to everyone; there are a lot of countries where this is not the case, and gamers in those countries have a right to complain about online activation and periodic verification of ownership.

How high is the % of total players coming from developing countries? Exactly.

You don't even need broadband internet, you can even use a modem if you find a time machine to travel back in time and buy one and you only need to connect every few days; maybe sth. like every 7 days.

Nobody said you can't complain. Hell, people complain about everything and everyone nowadays, people even complain about the weather...and can't change something about it.

You either drop the 90's "No internet activation!" attitude or you cannot play games using this kind of method...that's not rocket science.

[Melness]

How high is the % of total players coming from developing countries? Exactly.

Are you implying that the percentage is low without actually quoting any statistics specific to this game and even then saying that segregation, of any kind, is a good thing?

[StingingVelvet]

Fernando Melo wrote...

Some more points...

What about sunset/EA gone/20years from now?
There are sunset plans in place for all our titles.  Each one can be different, but most common solution is that the online requirement would be patched out.

You should publicize this more.

My main issue with DRM is worrying about my games not working someday due to publisher or developer closure (or simple lack of caring).  If more publishers and developers promised a solution to this concern it would be less of an issue.  Actually I will go as far as to say that if every DRM protected title came with a promise to patch the DRM out after a certain number of years I would never complain about DRM again.

[StingingVelvet]

Melness wrote...

How high is the % of total players coming from developing countries? Exactly.

Are you implying that the percentage is low without actually quoting any statistics specific to this game and even then saying that segregation, of any kind, is a good thing?

He's implying that large companies like EA don't care about missing a small percentage of foreign sales due to this, and he's right.

[The Halfman]

I have a computer on a Uni network which dosent allow authentication by either current dragon age or mass effect networks, will i be able to install/run the game or should i sell my pre-order?

[Sylvius the Mad]

StingingVelvet wrote...

Fernando Melo wrote...

What about sunset/EA gone/20years from now?[/b]
There are sunset plans in place for all our titles.  Each one can be different, but most common solution is that the online requirement would be patched out.

You should publicize this more.

I agree.

The only instance I can recall of DRM being removed is when BioWare patched out the disc-check in NWN (which was terrific - thanks for that).

[Gabriel S.]

FellowerOfOdin wrote...

You either drop the 90's "No internet activation!" attitude or you cannot play games using this kind of method...that's not rocket science.

Internet activation doesn't count in the senses... that's not rocket science either. It's not essential to functionality. If you remove the sound card-- you loose a sense, you break the mouse-- you loose a sense, you remove the video card-- that's right! You cut the internet cable, you can't access the game and/or you can't get promo items and whatnot.

And I realize what the issue there is. You can argue that video game corporations have practically transformed the internet into a sense, but it isn't really. And it wouldn't bother me so if it didn't limit my freedoms needlessly.

Hey, if you'd like to discuss this in private, do PM me, I'm not set in stone on this matter.

[Melness]

StingingVelvet wrote...

Melness wrote...

How high is the % of total players coming from developing countries? Exactly.

Are you implying that the percentage is low without actually quoting any statistics specific to this game and even then saying that segregation, of any kind, is a good thing?

He's implying that large companies like EA don't care about missing a small percentage of foreign sales due to this, and he's right.

Globalization is for noobs.

[Lord_Saulot]

Melness wrote...

StingingVelvet wrote...

Melness wrote...

How high is the % of total players coming from developing countries? Exactly.

Are you implying that the percentage is low without actually quoting any statistics specific to this game and even then saying that segregation, of any kind, is a good thing?

He's implying that large companies like EA don't care about missing a small percentage of foreign sales due to this, and he's right.

Globalization is for noobs.

More like, globalization proceeds unequally.

[Seifz]

I have a few questions.

1. How many days between checks?
2. What information is BioWare/EA collecting to determine which PC I'm using to enforce the 5/24 rule?
3. I understand that this isn't SecuROM, but what is it? Is any software being installed to my PC besides the game itself? Will this software interfere with any other software? Will it be removed when I uninstall the game?
4. Can I resell the game if I decide to do so?
5. Will your sunset plans be guaranteed to us in writing so that they're enforcable?

Thanks!

Modifié par Seifz, 01 février 2011 - 12:24 .

[dchalf10]

This is ridiculous.

If the steam version only requires steam ( aka online activation ) then wouldn't a simple online activation be the retail versions equivalent???????

Why add in a bunch more restrictions for retail customers.

I bought DA2 under the assumption that it would have the same copy protection as the first, disk check only. It is THE most convenient way for the greatest number of people to be able to play the game hassle free.

Seriosuly considering cancelling my pre-order, and if ME3 has the same sort of restrictions, then I won't buy it either.

Why spit in the faces of your customers?

You realise that pirates will be the only ones without the DRM...DRM only hurts paying customers.

I bought the collectors edition of DA, the expansion, and the collectors edition of ME2 ( I even bought DLC even tough I am usually opposed to it ) and now we are being 'punished' because of people who never had any intention of buying the game.

# of pirated downloads does not = # of lost sales. Half those people would never have bought it anyway, the other half may have then gone on to buy it...

Why do this :S

[In Exile]

BigJas wrote...

LaztRezort wrote...

Fernando Melo wrote...
There is no limit to the total number of PCs you can install on.  What this means is that within a rolling time window (in this case within any given 24h period) there is a max number of unique PCs that can run off that same account/CDkey.  In our example, a 6th PC trying to start within that same 24hr period from when the 1st PC started would not be allowed, for example.
...
Do I have to be online all the time?
No.  The only time this will be needed is when you first install, and if the game asks to connect again at some point in the future - we'll confirm closer to launch what that time gap is.

I'm still not understanding, these two things seem to contradict each other in my mind.  How is the first item enforced without having check online servers at each startup?

Oh yeah, and by the way, thanks for giving us all this info.

Good point. There does appear to be a conflict there.

Here is the only scenario I can think of that would avoid this (this is just a hypothetical):

To install the game on a new PC, you need to authenticate it. This means going online. If you authenticated 5 copies in the last 24 hours, a sixth copy most likely could not be authenticated. This is what I think they might be getting at.

Of course, this does mean in theory that you could have 6 PCs running DA2... so I'm still not sure if I'm getting it right.

[Junri]

dchalf10 wrote...

This is ridiculous.

If the steam version only requires steam ( aka online activation ) then wouldn't a simple online activation be the retail versions equivalent???????

Why add in a bunch more restrictions for retail customers.

I bought DA2 under the assumption that it would have the same copy protection as the first, disk check only. It is THE most convenient way for the greatest number of people to be able to play the game hassle free.

Seriosuly considering cancelling my pre-order, and if ME3 has the same sort of restrictions, then I won't buy it either.

Why spit in the faces of your customers?

You realise that pirates will be the only ones without the DRM...DRM only hurts paying customers.

I bought the collectors edition of DA, the expansion, and the collectors edition of ME2 ( I even bought DLC even tough I am usually opposed to it ) and now we are being 'punished' because of people who never had any intention of buying the game.

# of pirated downloads does not = # of lost sales. Half those people would never have bought it anyway, the other half may have then gone on to buy it...

Why do this :S

Uh, you make the DRM sound so restrictive. All you have to do is log on to EA and you HAVE to do this to access DLCs anyway. It is probably the same for Steam versions too. If you want to access to DLCs you got to log on to your EA account. I don't see how this is going to hurt paying customers at all.

[Sylvius the Mad]

In Exile wrote...

Here is the only scenario I can think of that would avoid this (this is just a hypothetical):

To install the game on a new PC, you need to authenticate it. This means going online. If you authenticated 5 copies in the last 24 hours, a sixth copy most likely could not be authenticated. This is what I think they might be getting at.

Of course, this does mean in theory that you could have 6 PCs running DA2... so I'm still not sure if I'm getting it right.

That's how I read it.  And if you can't reauthenticate more than 5 PCs in one 24 hour period, that would still allow you to run one copy of the game on as many PCs as you could fit in between the authentication cycles.

So, if the game needed to reauthenticate every week, you could run the game simultaneously on 35 different machines as long as you staggered their authentication.

[FieryDove]

Junri wrote...

 I don't see how this is going to hurt paying customers at all.

I can. My dsl goes out on a whim, not long ago was out almost 2 full days. Not my fault and yet if I can''t play my game...rage will happen.

[LaztRezort]

In Exile wrote...

BigJas wrote...

LaztRezort wrote...

Fernando Melo wrote...
There is no limit to the total number of PCs you can install on.  What this means is that within a rolling time window (in this case within any given 24h period) there is a max number of unique PCs that can run off that same account/CDkey.  In our example, a 6th PC trying to start within that same 24hr period from when the 1st PC started would not be allowed, for example.
...
Do I have to be online all the time?
No.  The only time this will be needed is when you first install, and if the game asks to connect again at some point in the future - we'll confirm closer to launch what that time gap is.

I'm still not understanding, these two things seem to contradict each other in my mind.  How is the first item enforced without having check online servers at each startup?

Oh yeah, and by the way, thanks for giving us all this info.

Good point. There does appear to be a conflict there.

Here is the only scenario I can think of that would avoid this (this is just a hypothetical):

To install the game on a new PC, you need to authenticate it. This means going online. If you authenticated 5 copies in the last 24 hours, a sixth copy most likely could not be authenticated. This is what I think they might be getting at.

Of course, this does mean in theory that you could have 6 PCs running DA2... so I'm still not sure if I'm getting it right.

That would make sense.   Also, perhaps a lot of rapid activations could force an early server check.

[Reaverwind]

Delerius_Jedi wrote...

Only thing I have a really big problem with here are the recurring online checks. I don't care if you don't use SecuROM, this is a bad idea, period. People do travel with their laptops, afterall. I'm really disappointed with you. An EA.account based system akin to Steam with a fully functional offline mode after authentication would have been far more tolerable. Or, failing that - just use Steamworks, since you're already using online authentication. You're creating a reason for people to go look for ways to bypass your systems if they are facing an extended period of time offline. I hope you realize that.

Couldn't agree with you more. This has pushed me over to the "not buying" side of the fence.

FieryDove wrote...

Junri wrote...

 I don't see how this is going to hurt paying customers at all.

I can. My dsl goes out on a whim, not long ago was out almost 2 full days. Not my fault and yet if I can''t play my game...rage will happen.

I feel your pain - our DSL goes out every other week.

Modifié par Reaverwind, 01 février 2011 - 12:47 .

[In Exile]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
That's how I read it.  And if you can't reauthenticate more than 5 PCs in one 24 hour period, that would still allow you to run one copy of the game on as many PCs as you could fit in between the authentication cycles.

So, if the game needed to reauthenticate every week, you could run the game simultaneously on 35 different machines as long as you staggered their authentication.

I'm just not sure what EA is trying to avoid with a limitation like this. I assume they don't want their game to disseminate quickly under a single EA account... but was this ever a problem (that a group would buy one game for one account, then share it across 15 people with no disk check?).

It seems like an odd thing to try and avoid.

[slimgrin]

- "You can play offline but the game will require a login check after a select period of days."



So basically this works like SC2? DA2 will in fact have a form of online drm, and will require a steady connection to play?



What is a select number of days? 10? 20?

[Stanley Woo]

Let's keep this discussion on topic, please. Fernando is providing the clarifying information that community members have been asking for, so I don't want to have to shut this thread down.

[Stanley Woo]

slimgrin wrote...

- "You can play offline but the game will require a login check after a select period of days."

So basically this works like SC2? DA2 will in fact have a form of online drm, and will require a steady connection to play?

What is a select number of days? 10? 20?

Your answer:

Fernando Melo said on page 3
How many days can you be offline?
We'll
have more info on this closer to release.  Not trying to avoid the
question, we honestly have not settled on this yet - but also did not
want to further delay getting the rest of the information out to you.

[Brockololly]

What I'm wondering is why the retail/non-Steam versions have the recurring online checks? Why not just go with a Steam like approach where you can activate it online once but after that, you can stay offline forever, if you want?

[Eurypterid]

Fernando Melo wrote...


Apologies if I'm not making it clear enough- this system operates essentially just like steam, but with offline mode ON by default.  If you have a trip coming up, just login again before you travel - the clock will reset again, just like steam.

With all due respect, Fernando, this is just exactly the same as what was first proposed for ME1 PC and which prompted such a heated reaction. The only change is the time frame of the recurring checks (and this is obviously just a guess, since you dont have hard info yet on how often they'll be required, but I'm assuming by your comments that it will be longer than the proposed 10 days in ME1 PC).

I have a hard time believing we're back to this kind of DRM, given the outcry against it last time. Maybe enough time has passed that EA thinks people will forget and just not put up as big a protest and outcry as last time? Who knows. But if this is the DRM system the game is shipping with, I'm extremely disappointed and, as much as it pains me to say this, I'll be passing on this title.

[MDarwin]

FellowerOfOdin wrote...

ladydesire wrote...
Stop saying that broadband internet access is cheap and readily accessible to everyone; there are a lot of countries where this is not the case, and gamers in those countries have a right to complain about online activation and periodic verification of ownership.

How high is the % of total players coming from developing countries? Exactly.

You don't even need broadband internet, you can even use a modem if you find a time machine to travel back in time and buy one and you only need to connect every few days; maybe sth. like every 7 days.

Nobody said you can't complain. Hell, people complain about everything and everyone nowadays, people even complain about the weather...and can't change something about it.

You either drop the 90's "No internet activation!" attitude or you cannot play games using this kind of method...that's not rocket science.

Lucky you who lives in da "developed World" as I. Still, I was off "Air" for 3 weeks because of the stupidity of my provider! And not all devoleped countrys have an "unfailing/first class Internet".

Concerning the DA2 DRM, this time I will not getting the game. Bummer really.

Modifié par MDarwin, 01 février 2011 - 01:45 .

[AlanC9]

Weird ... wasn't that repeat authorization every few days thing first floated around the time ME1 was released? IIRC it wasn't popular then. I wonder why EA went back to it.