976 réponses à ce sujet

[tishyw]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Hi everyone

Recently there has been some concern over the DRM (Digital Rights Management) included with Dragon Age 2. Hopefully this post will help clarify what the DRM is for all versions of Dragon Age 2.

Steam versions use Steam DRM, no other DRM is added.

Non-Steam versions (digital or retail disc) are as follows:
- No disc check, you do not need the disc in drive to play.
- No limit on the total number of PCs you can install and play the game on.
- There is a limit to the number of unique/different PCs that can start/play the game within a time window [5 PCs in 24hrs].
- Each install requires logging in to your EA account to verify game ownership and if you are a member of these forums, you have an EA account.
- You can play offline but the game will require a login check after a select period of days.

Release Control (does not use securom)
      . It does not install anything to the PC.
      . Sole purpose is to check with a server to validate whether the game release date has passed or not. 
      . It completely removes itself after the game release date has passed. 
      . You will not be able to play until that date has passed.
      . Dates & times are set to the retail street date per country.

Hopefully this explains the DRM included in Dragon Age 2.

If you still have questions, please ask them here. However, this thread is NOT for the general discussion of DRM, the pros and cons of other DRM systems or any talk about circumventing DRM (which is against the rules of conduct and will be diciplined as such). Thanks.

Thanks for the update Chris, but this does mean that I'll be cancelling my Signature Edition order.  I can live with online activation, but a standalone game needing to call home every few days to reconfirm that I've acutally purchased the game, is where I draw the line.

For me this is an unacceptable restriction on those who chose to purchase the pc edition.

[Koffeegirl]

Brockololly wrote...

StingingVelvet wrote..

And on the "Steam is the way to go" front, Steam does the same thing as this DRM so I don't see why that is the case.  You have to activate to install on Steam and you can only be in offline mode for so long on Steam, same thing as this DRM.

I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure with Steam's offline mode, once you initially activate the game, you can stay in offline mode forever and ever without having to reconnect.

I'm pretty sure you are right. I have a few games from Steam and I've been in offline mode for over a month, and still have no difficulties in playing Steam games.

[StingingVelvet]

Koffeegirl wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

StingingVelvet wrote..

And on the "Steam is the way to go" front, Steam does the same thing as this DRM so I don't see why that is the case.  You have to activate to install on Steam and you can only be in offline mode for so long on Steam, same thing as this DRM.

I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure with Steam's offline mode, once you initially activate the game, you can stay in offline mode forever and ever without having to reconnect.

I'm pretty sure you are right. I have a few games from Steam and I've been in offline mode for over a month, and still have no difficulties in playing Steam games.

Well Fernando says otherwise in this very thread and I have certainly had Steam tell me "no" in offline mode before.  One time I went on vacation for a week and took my PC... eventually Steam told me Portal was not available offline.

It might depend on the game or other situations, not sure.  In any case with Steam you are buying a service, your access to the game is dependent on that service.

[Stanley Woo]

Torhagen wrote...
- You can play offline but the game will require a login check after a select period of days.

if you could me more specific with the fine print because a stitch in time saves nine

Here's your answer, which I am posting again:

Fernando Melo said on page 3...
How many days can you be offline?
We'll
have more info on this closer to release.  Not trying to avoid the
question, we honestly have not settled on this yet - but also did not
want to further delay getting the rest of the information out to you.

[Tranceptor]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...
- Each install requires logging in to your EA account to verify game ownership and if you are a member of these forums, you have an EA account.
- You can play offline but the game will require a login check after a select period of days.

 Also it still leaves the issue of "what happens when EA no longer exists?"

thats my only concern, I'm still annoyed that I have Neverwinter Nights DLC that I bought but can't use anymore.

[Reaverwind]

StingingVelvet wrote...

Koffeegirl wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure with Steam's offline mode, once you initially activate the game, you can stay in offline mode forever and ever without having to reconnect.

I'm pretty sure you are right. I have a few games from Steam and I've been in offline mode for over a month, and still have no difficulties in playing Steam games.

Well Fernando says otherwise in this very thread and I have certainly had Steam tell me "no" in offline mode before. 

No, he does not. He specifically states:

Fernando Melo wrote...
No, this is PC only DRM and only related to non-steam versions.  Consoles & Steam editions have their own native DRM systems and we do not add anything extra to those.

Modifié par Reaverwind, 01 février 2011 - 04:15 .

[Altima Darkspells]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Here's your answer, which I am posting again:

Fernando Melo said on page 3...
How many days can you be offline?
We'll
have more info on this closer to release.  Not trying to avoid the
question, we honestly have not settled on this yet - but also did not
want to further delay getting the rest of the information out to you.

Ooo, ooo, it should be 255 days.

[Koffeegirl]

Well, to get this back on topic at least bioware is letting its forum members know even before  they have the details worked out, I'd rather have a disc check sure, but it what it is. I'm still going to play DA2 gladly.

Modifié par Koffeegirl, 01 février 2011 - 04:27 .

[Seifz]

Altima Darkspells wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Here's your answer, which I am posting again:

Fernando Melo said on page 3...
How many days can you be offline?
We'll
have more info on this closer to release.  Not trying to avoid the
question, we honestly have not settled on this yet - but also did not
want to further delay getting the rest of the information out to you.

Ooo, ooo, it should be 255 days.

Infinity would be better.  There's no good reason for this 5/24 thing and many reasons not to do it.

[craigdolphin]

Well. Let me just say, first of all, THANK YOU! Chris, Fernando, etc for clarifying the situation. I look forward to hearing about how long the offline leash will be closer to the time. And another thanks to David Gaider for taking the time to interact with us prior to the announcement.

I think the DRM for DA2 is a mixed bag. Overall, it's vastly better than the DRM for ME1.

+ No SecuROM.
+ No activation limits that prevent component/OS upgrades to worry about.
+No disc check (not a big thing to me but there you have it)

- recurring online activations with an as-yet-undefined periodicity

On its own, I would be really equivocating about cancelling my preorders. I wants my precious: but I don't want to sleep with Shelob to get it! Recurring online activations suck.

However, Ferndando's post made me very happy, particularly this:

What about sunset/EA gone/20years from now?
There
are sunset plans in place for all our titles.  Each one can be
different, but most common solution is that the online requirement would
be patched out.

Fernando, I take you at your word. I hope those plans come to fruition within, say, a couple of years or so, but I would be surprised if you are allowed to tell us the timeframe just yet. I realize this may actually surprise some of the devs given my vocal opposition to DRM overall, but I do actually trust Bioware. On the strength of that written assurance, I will not be cancelling my preorders.

I would like to suggest, if I may, that when you are deciding what period of time you will permit between online authentications, that you consult with those of your fans who are on military deployment in Iraq and Afghanistan to find out what period of time they could live with realistically. Or, as an alternative, perhaps consider a system whereby a disc check might substitute for recurring online activations after the first online activation has been succesfully achieved. Something to consider, I hope, either for this release or for the next.

All that said, I'm disappointed that you changed the DRM from the more friendly systems in place for DA:O and ME2. Both titles sold great without such measures. I think that proved our point. I look forward to the day when DA2 will be free of these shackles too. But I'm glad at least now that I know I'll be buying DA2 for certain.

[Seifz]

craigdolphin wrote...

I think that proved our point. I look forward to the day when DA2 will be free of these shackles too.

You mean release day? 

I don't condone piracy, but you know it's going to happen.

[slimgrin]

Koffeegirl wrote...

Well, to get this back on topic at least bioware is letting its forum members know even before  they have the details worked out, I'd rather have a disc check sure, but it what it is. I'm still going to play DA2 gladly.

I may not, as I'm against online DRM. For some reason, I can buy a music cd, a dvd, or a book on cd, and enjoy them whenever I want, without a bit of hassle. No one tells me when I can view or listen to them; I own my copy and I can use it whenever I want. And yes, last I checked, these forms of entertainment are pirated quite regularly. Apparently video games are special, and require unfair copy right protection exceeding that of other mediums.

It's frustrating, as I was looking forward to this game, but I simply cannot support something like this. As long as online DRM is attached to the game, I won't be getting it.

[mesmerizedish]

slimgrin wrote...

Koffeegirl wrote...

Well, to get this back on topic at least bioware is letting its forum members know even before  they have the details worked out, I'd rather have a disc check sure, but it what it is. I'm still going to play DA2 gladly.

I may not, as I'm against online DRM. For some reason, I can buy a music cd, a dvd, or a book on cd, and enjoy them whenever I want, without a bit of hassle. No one tells me when I can view or listen to them; I own my copy and I can use it whenever I want. And yes, last I checked, these forms of entertainment are pirated quite regularly. Apparently video games are special, and require unfair copy right protection exceeding that of other mediums.

It's frustrating, as I was looking forward to this game, but I simply cannot support something like this. As long as online DRM is attached to the game, I won't be getting it.

How is online DRM different from any other kind of DRM?

[slimgrin]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Koffeegirl wrote...

Well, to get this back on topic at least bioware is letting its forum members know even before  they have the details worked out, I'd rather have a disc check sure, but it what it is. I'm still going to play DA2 gladly.

I may not, as I'm against online DRM. For some reason, I can buy a music cd, a dvd, or a book on cd, and enjoy them whenever I want, without a bit of hassle. No one tells me when I can view or listen to them; I own my copy and I can use it whenever I want. And yes, last I checked, these forms of entertainment are pirated quite regularly. Apparently video games are special, and require unfair copy right protection exceeding that of other mediums.

It's frustrating, as I was looking forward to this game, but I simply cannot support something like this. As long as online DRM is attached to the game, I won't be getting it.

How is online DRM different from any other kind of DRM?

Heh...you're really digging deep here.

If you like the DRM scheme, and if you think it's fair, then buy the game.

[jlibster]

Okay I was happy to purchase Dragon Age 1 since I did not need ANY on line access to to play it. But until Dragon Age 2 is internet check-in/registration/tag whatever you want to call it free, I'm holding off my purchase. While I respect that people may want to see this game early, this isn't the way to achieve the control you are looking for.

I actually keep my Windows XP box completely cut off from the Internet and firewalls on full alrert because of all the garbage various game developers are putting on their games, and I'm taking notes with any game I try to install. This is how bad its become. Gaming is no longer fun because people insist in having some "UUID" or variation thereof, to tag/control/push sales pitches at me, regardless of how legitmate my purchase may be. I was looking forward to this release, until I saw this the dreaded DRM using Internet. So far the only game I've purchased this year I feel good about is "The Witcher 2" (prerelease) with assurance of no intrusive DRM of any kind. And I get games from their website which I would never have purchased before due to previous DRM which they remove (and my XP machine is clean..). I really hope EA can take a few pointers from the guys at GOG.com. So far this year they are the only one's I can finally just purchase my game and play it without fear of intrusive DRM techniques. Really, I hope you guys at EA see the light. Maybe Mass Effect 3....maybe...

[Seifz]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Koffeegirl wrote...

Well, to get this back on topic at least bioware is letting its forum members know even before  they have the details worked out, I'd rather have a disc check sure, but it what it is. I'm still going to play DA2 gladly.

I may not, as I'm against online DRM. For some reason, I can buy a music cd, a dvd, or a book on cd, and enjoy them whenever I want, without a bit of hassle. No one tells me when I can view or listen to them; I own my copy and I can use it whenever I want. And yes, last I checked, these forms of entertainment are pirated quite regularly. Apparently video games are special, and require unfair copy right protection exceeding that of other mediums.

It's frustrating, as I was looking forward to this game, but I simply cannot support something like this. As long as online DRM is attached to the game, I won't be getting it.

How is online DRM different from any other kind of DRM?

It requires an Internet connection.  Not everyone is as fortunate as you and I to have a stable one all the time.  Further, enforcing a 5/24 rule requires that we send identifying data to EA's servers so that they know which PC we're activating.  I want to know what data we're sending them and what they plan to do with it.  Finally, EA makes no written guarantee that they'll remove this DRM at some point in the future so that we can continue to enjoy our games once they no longer support them.

I can watch a Blu-Ray disc, listen to a CD, or read a book without connecting to the Intenet, sending any data to anyone, or worrying that some day my product will no longer be supported.

[mesmerizedish]

slimgrin wrote...

...

Heh...you're really digging deep here.

If you like the DRM scheme, and if you think it's fair, then buy the game.

I've already got in on pre-order. I'm not a fan of DRM in general, but online DRM is no different from a disc check. A disc check is only slightly inconvenient in that I need the disc, on online registration and check-ins don't inconvenience me at all. The only problem I have with it at all is the idea that EA doesn't trust me, which makes me oh so sad indeed.

They're letting you install it on as many computers as you want. And you can play it on five within any 24 hour period. That's so far from unreasonable that it makes me think that EA might not be that evil after all. I really don't understand your issue with it.

[EDIT] Actually, I do understand your issue with it. I just think it's incredibly petty.

Modifié par ishmaeltheforsaken, 01 février 2011 - 05:00 .

[Erode_The_Soul]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

I've already got in on pre-order. I'm not a fan of DRM in general, but online DRM is no different from a disc check. A disc check is only slightly inconvenient in that I need the disc, on online registration and check-ins don't inconvenience me at all. The only problem I have with it at all is the idea that EA doesn't trust me, which makes me oh so sad indeed.

A disk check is different because if you purchased the game, you are guaranteed to have the disk. Not the same can be said for an internet connection. So a disk check would likely be less of an inconvinience to someone without internet than an online authentication would be.

Modifié par Erode_The_Soul, 01 février 2011 - 05:06 .

[Unato]

mmm I'm going to have to agree with Eurypterid's comment on page 5, how is this any different to the drm that was proposed for ME1. If they set it to something long like 6 months then why put it in the first place? If they make it short how will it be not like ME1 prposed drm except now you might only have to dial home every 7 days or whatever. I would have thought bioware and by extension ea would have learnt their lesson by now

[Fishy]

Oh my .. I see the crack coming for this very fast(From any ****** or hacker group) and after they wonder why people support those nasty hacker .Hum .. I still remember some developper actually supporting a hacking group because of the stupid DRM from a certain publisher.



*Ahem Ubisoft*



You could not even install the game 2 time within 24 hours on the same computer.So if you failed the first time.You were pwned.Yes it's happenned to me.My license become invalid after 24 hours and 0 Minutes playtime.



I buy my game on steam anyway or the console.

[craigdolphin]

Seifz wrote...

craigdolphin wrote...

I think that proved our point. I look forward to the day when DA2 will be free of these shackles too.

You mean release day? 

I don't condone piracy, but you know it's going to happen.

Dude: choir; preaching; me; you.

But not discussing this as per the instructions in the OP.

[koshiee]

for the online verification do you have stay logged in the entire time?

[mesmerizedish]

koshiee wrote...

for the online verification do you have stay logged in the entire time?

No. You're online once to register the game, and then you can play offline for "a number of days" (they don't know what that means yet), before you have to "dial home" again, after which you can play offline again.

[Reaverwind]

Unato wrote...

mmm I'm going to have to agree with Eurypterid's comment on page 5, how is this any different to the drm that was proposed for ME1. If they set it to something long like 6 months then why put it in the first place? If they make it short how will it be not like ME1 prposed drm except now you might only have to dial home every 7 days or whatever. I would have thought bioware and by extension ea would have learnt their lesson by now

Perhaps it's a twisted plot to kill PC sales so they can truthfully claim PC games don't sell anymore?

[AlanC9]

Tranceptor wrote...

thats my only concern, I'm still annoyed that I have Neverwinter Nights DLC that I bought but can't use anymore.

I thought those still authenticated fine but you just can't buy them anymore.