1019 réponses à ce sujet

[Augustei]

Most people on these forums seem to hate the chantry.. Generally because they relate this game to real life and the opinions they have formed IRL. seem to carry over to Dragon age, So it would seem.. But lets not talk about that.

Why does everyone hate the Chantry so much?
Is it because of The Dales Incident? Which cant really be condemned or supported due to lack of evidence on how the war truly started?
Is it because of the way they a treated now? Being forced to live in Alienages. Which is not the concern of the Chantry but instead the nations Monarchs and Lords?
Is it because of their treatment of mages.. Which is a very debatable topic with many conflicting opinions.. Generally in the mages favor..  Although they aren't as badly treated as everyone makes it out to be, and they are given permission to leave the circles should they be trusted to... Maleficars are all generally nuts. The only one who isn't really is Morrigan but thats debatable, because she generally takes the Renegade side of things.
Other Maleficars are more "POWER MUHAHAHAHA" or Ancient mysterious powerful person committing evil acts (Flemeth)
And then theres the few exeptions that resort to it out of desperation for trying to flee the circles.
But whose to say if they were completely free from their "Jailors' that the rate in which Abominations roam the land doesn't rise significantly?

No Although i have asked all these questions that make it seem as if I come down on the side of the chantry, I actually dont have a definite opinion. And when playing I generally base my charecters opinion on his upbringing etc.
My HN Warden likes and supposts the chantry.
My Dalish Hates it.
My Hawke will hate it.

But what im asking is, Why so much hate for the chantry? And is there anyone here that likes the Chantry?

By The Way, Just made a Poll asking whether or not you like the chantry
social.bioware.com/1392241/polls/14821/

Modifié par XxDeonxX, 04 février 2011 - 05:24 .

[blothulfur]

The vast majority of the people of Ferelden seemed to be maker fearing and supportive of the chantry, viewing templars as crusading heroes and guardians thus any revolt against chantry teachings and dominance would have to tread a fine line or risk falling foul of both the native populace and rival nations eager to gain chantry support and dominate a neighbouring power all under a banner of god fearing righteous duty.

I say dominate and reform rather than rebel, because I don't see much chance of a rebellion sticking but then again Hawke may be playing the part of a Martin Luther and revolutionising or splitting the chantry.

[Irkalla]

i hate all organized religion, I don't need any other reason to hate it.

[Gabey5]

they are just douchy, throughout their history..

[Ramante]

Morrigan is an apostate, not a maleficar.

[upsettingshorts]

blothulfur wrote...

The vast majority of the people of Ferelden seemed to be maker fearing and supportive of the chantry, viewing templars as crusading heroes and guardians thus any revolt against chantry teachings and dominance would have to tread a fine line or risk falling foul of both the native populace and rival nations eager to gain chantry support and dominate a neighbouring power all under a banner of god fearing righteous duty.

I say dominate and reform rather than rebel, because I don't see much chance of a rebellion sticking but then again Hawke may be playing the part of a Martin Luther and revolutionising or splitting the chantry.

Could hardly have said it better myself.  Thedas - well, human Thedas - at large appreciates what they do.  I'm not really interested in applying postmodern views on religion and morality to a fictional medieval fantasy world with its own culture and history.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 01 février 2011 - 11:41 .

[ThatDancingTurian]

Strangely, when I played my Dalish elf she was very open to the idea of the Maker and respected the Chantry. My opinions changed when I played my mage, now I find them oppressive jerks.

[LobselVith8]

Ramante wrote...

Morrigan is an apostate, not a maleficar.

In Witch Hunt, the Chantry puts a bounty on her head because they suspect she's a blood mage (the codex for the Orlesian Warden). Yes, without proof of any kind, they're going to ask for people to hunt her down and murder her because they merely think she could be a blood mage.

[Eudaemonium]

I like the Chantry. Well, I don't hate them. They serve a purpose, and they are corrupt as all hell but no more or less so than every other socio-political force in Thedas. Most people seem to hate the Chantry 'in-universe' for their treatment of Mages or due to their rather tortured history with the elves, but like you said - how the Exalted March of the Dales actually started is up for dispute (though it obviously gives a reason for a Dalish Warden to hate them). The Mage issue is complex simply because Mages can actually be quite dangerous, and keeping them in towers does kinda prevent the lynching of mages of the frightened populace, even if the mages in question hadn't done anything. The issue is really whether you can essentially judge someone on the possibility of crime, which is a slipery slope.

Like anything, the Chantry is a complex issue. My Wardens have taken various stances on it. My City Elf was a believer, if nto a strong one, my Mages either hated it or saw it (ala Wynne) as necessary, my Dwarf Noble didn't 'get it' but preserved the Ashes because she saw Andraste as a 'human paragon', my Dalish hated it, my Dwarf Commoner just foudn it incomprehensible and as oppressive as the system she remembered from Orzammar. I never got far enough with my HNs to really decide what they felt.

[jelf rs]

The Chantry is a necessary evil if you ask me. Just like many other "similar things" in real life.

Religion is not evil, but the Chantry and "similar things in real life" are.

[Dhiro]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

blothulfur wrote...

The vast majority of the people of Ferelden seemed to be maker fearing and supportive of the chantry, viewing templars as crusading heroes and guardians thus any revolt against chantry teachings and dominance would have to tread a fine line or risk falling foul of both the native populace and rival nations eager to gain chantry support and dominate a neighbouring power all under a banner of god fearing righteous duty.

I say dominate and reform rather than rebel, because I don't see much chance of a rebellion sticking but then again Hawke may be playing the part of a Martin Luther and revolutionising or splitting the chantry.

Could hardly have said it better myself.  Thedas - well, human Thedas - at large appreciates what they do.  I'm not really interested in applying postmodern views on religion and morality to a fictional medieval fantasy world with its own culture and history.

I third that. The Chantry isn't all that bad - there are people there that really want to help people. I think they're in the right track, as they help the community, they just need to work a little more in some aspects of the Chantry as a whole.

[Noviere]

I'm not a religious person myself, but I like the role they play in the DA setting. I like that for the most part, they are good people. I also like how there is definitely a level of corruption in the church.

[request denied]

Somebody has to be the bad guy now there is no darkspawn .

[Matchy Pointy]

I don't mind the Chantry itself, I do dislike much of what is done for the Chantry though, if you read the chant, much of what it says makes sense.

[Xebioz]

What I don't like about the Chantry is that they seem to think that they know best in all situations (which is really annoying...). I'm not anti-religion per se (I love the Dwarven beliefs about the stone and whatnot) I just don't like oppression.

[Korva]

I like the Chantry -- and I'm very much an atheist. I just don't see a reason to bring that part of me into my characters when there is an interesting faith in a setting. Plus, most of the Chantry people in Origins were actually quite pleasant IMO or at least "neutral". Ser Otto in Denerim is a particular favourite of mine, it was a nasty surprise when he died, even more that I couldn't even take his body out and bury him. The only Chantry-affiliated characters I remember loathing were the Templar doing ferry duty to the Circle Tower and Cullen.

When it comes to mages, it's clear that something must be done about the demon posession risk and blood magic. The solution we have is far from ideal, but IMO it's realistic -- meaning, there is no good solution, especially in a wannabe-gritty world. And it could be worse. It always amuses me how "cool" many people apparently find the qunari, who treat mages ten times worse and seem to allow very little freedom or choice. But we play in a Chantry-dominated country, so the Chantry gets all the hate. I bet if we played in a qunari-dominated country, people would hate on them instead. *shrug*

The treatment of the elves is another problem. but I too lay the blame for that at least as much on the shoulders of humanity in general. People just love having someone to ****** and spit on, just look at the real world. And Andraste, at least, had an elven general and gave the elves a home. So a Chantry person with sympathy for the elves could argue that those who destroyed that home went against the Prophet's will.

All in all, I find the Chantry to be an amazingly "realistic" organization. It has its dark spots and bad apples, but also many good sorts.

Modifié par Korva, 01 février 2011 - 12:08 .

[Phaffner]

Its not the chantry that is evil, its the people that use it to further their own corrupt ways that are evil.

[Augustei]

Maleficarum extends beyond the use of blood magic, it is generally any magic outlawed by the chantry.. Of which Morrigan practices (Shapeshifting) thereforce she is Maleficar

[OverlordNexas]

They pay me to go out and do good deeds. What's not to like?

[aaniadyen]

I like the Chantry.  From a statistical perspective, they probably have the greatest help vs. harm ratio out of any significant organized group.

[Mike2640]

The game gives you plenty of reasons to dislike the Chantry, be it's treatment of the Elves, it's treatment of Mages (And mages outside it's influence), it's brainwashing of the Templars and the practical enslavement of them with Lyrium addiction. Not to mention their "Divine" Marches of the past (And future marches against the Dwarves, depending on your ending).



They've inspired a lot of good and good people, but that doesn't mean they're not a bloated, corrupt organization that's held back Denerim society.

[silentassassin264]

Depends on the playthrough. I personally don''t like them but I have had several wardens who did.

[Vanni127]

Honestly? The maker religion and the chantry are all too close to organized religion IRL for me to like them. Especially with their treatment of mages.

[Xewaka]

The chantry, as absoulety every other organized *anything*, has good, honest folk at the bottom and is led by corrupted greedy suits. Don't hate the people, hate the structure.

[aaniadyen]

What I really don't understand is why the chantry having parallels to the Catholic church is so damning. What difference does it make?