1019 réponses à ce sujet

[MorningBird]

LobselVith8 wrote...

MorningBird wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

XxDeonxX wrote...

Rivain is probably a bad example of mages living alongside non mages.. *Their higher ups are witches that allow themselves to be possessed by Abominations*.. They are slowly falling under the beliefs and ways of the Qun and soon those mages will have their tongues cut out and leashed

Actually, there's no indication of that. It's been some time since the New Exalted Marches, after all, and Rivain was the one to bring about peace between the Andrastian nations and the Qunari. Even Genitivi's recent visit to them (Rivain codex) mentioned that they have respect for their mages. Clearly, they aren't the same as the Qunari. They were influenced by the Qun, but they're the most tolerant of mages in all human society in Thedas that we're aware of. Even the latest blog entry mentions Rivain as one of the nations that doesn't imprison mages like the Andrastian Chantry does.

Not to mention, abominations don't possess mages.  Demons do.  A mage, once possessed, becomes an abomination.

You mean like Wynne, who can be regarded as an abomination, but disputes the label because she retains her humanity? It's likely no different in Rivain.

Read the bolded part of XxDeonxX post.

I was merely pointing out that witches can't 'allow themselves to be possessed by Abominations.'

They can allow themselves to be possessed by demons and, as a result, turn into Abominations, but they cannot, however, be possessed by Abominations and turn into Abominations.

[Eclipse_9990]

GodWood wrote...

Eclipse_9990 wrote...
Essentially making mages their slaves.

How are they at all slaves?
They are given free accomodation, free food and free education which is probably better than what most Fereldan peasants get.
The catch is they are to be regulated and kept under Chantry watch which is perfectly understandable when one sees the risk mages are to society (regular magic, blood-magic and demon possession)
The current system is fine, I really don't get you 'mage apologists'.

Oh sorry. Did I say slaves? I meant pets. 
Lol risk? As was posted numerous times all over this thread Mages being in normal society isnt a problem. It isn't a problem in Tevinter, it isnt a problem in Rivain, and it certainly isnt a problem with the Dalish. 
The current system is crap, I really don't get you 'chantry apologists'. 

Modifié par Eclipse_9990, 02 février 2011 - 11:32 .

[What?]

I hated the Chantry and their preachy BS. Had I had the chance, I would've had my 'evil' mage obliterate the Denerim Chapter and wage a war against the Templars and the Circle's lapdogs. Would've made for a pretty awesome ending.

Modifié par VictorianTrash, 02 février 2011 - 11:37 .

[MorningBird]

VictorianTrash wrote...

I hated the Chantry and their preachy BS. Had I had the chance, I would've had my 'evil' mage obliterate the Denerim Chapter and wage a war against the Templars and the Circle's lapdogs.

But then what would you have to do in Dragon Age 2? ;D

[What?]

MorningBird wrote...

VictorianTrash wrote...

I hated the Chantry and their preachy BS. Had I had the chance, I would've had my 'evil' mage obliterate the Denerim Chapter and wage a war against the Templars and the Circle's lapdogs.

But then what would you have to do in Dragon Age 2? ;D

It's only one chapter. I'd just have to take a little detour to the Black City with Morrigan and gain some more evil blood magic--preferably binding myself to some ultra-powerful demon--and then continue on my rampage.

Modifié par VictorianTrash, 02 février 2011 - 11:43 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

LobselVith8 wrote...
Regarding the Exalted March, it's an issue of who started it. If the Dalish were merely protecting themselves against an enemy that tried to forcibly convert them, it's in their interests to defeat the enemy so they can't be a threat to them again.

Which is an interesting notion.
Where does defence end and agression start?

I find it natural that if someone attacks you, you want to push them out of your borders. That is defense.
Pushing into enemy teritory? Now you are the agressor and the enemy is the one defending their homes and families.
The whole notion of "defeating your enemy so it won't be a thread again" is bollocks IMHO. Unless you completely destroy them, the "threat" always reamains. It's jsut postponed by a few years (plenty of historical examples of that)

Would the Chantry even get involved if their own existence wasn't threatened? Possibly, maybe not. We have really far too little to go on here.

As I said before - The Anders scenario doesn't look like it was sanctioned by the Chantry. It looked more liek a couple of templars saying "That mage killed our frinds. He makes a a mockery of us and uses the rules to escape us! Let's take matters into our own hands. If the Knight-Commander asks, we'll say he attacked first."

Except we can see from the case of D'Sims, a charlatan who was pretending to be a healer and was killed for it by templars, and the Chantry putting a bounty on Morrigan for their suspicions alone in Witch Hunt because they think she's a blood mage, that templars seem to have a lot of wiggle room when it comes to killing mages. No proof? No problem, apparently.

You tryingto go somewhere here? Proof of intent and lack of evidence would be nice. Which is something you lack, as usual.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
As for the reverend mother. I dont' see the big problem. She had bigger things to worry about with the village being overrun by refugees.
It's funny you accuse her of being uppity, when you parade around with your Grey Warden title. "I'm a Grey Warden. People MUST respect me and worship the ground I walk on". It sure wasn't polite of her to brush you off, but considering the situation it wasn't unexpected.

How is using the Rite of Conscription - which was brought back by King Maric and kept in place by King Cailan - being "uppity?" She ignores the law by refusing it, simple as that.

Does the law even apply to the Chantry?
If so, is refusing it that horrible? Aren't you the one who campaigns for mages to refuse following Chantry law?
If you cna cherrypick which laws t ofollow, why can't any other individual?

[MorningBird]

VictorianTrash wrote...

MorningBird wrote...

VictorianTrash wrote...

I hated the Chantry and their preachy BS. Had I had the chance, I would've had my 'evil' mage obliterate the Denerim Chapter and wage a war against the Templars and the Circle's lapdogs.

But then what would you have to do in Dragon Age 2? ;D

It's only one chapter. I'd just have to take a little detour to the Black City with Morrigan, gain some more evil blood magic, and then continue on my rampage.

Until all of Thedas is consumed in darkness, I imagine? xD

[mousestalker]

One good thing about the Chantry: All the women seem to have the secret of keeping their figure even into advanced old age. Those Chantry robes are very flattering and must offer fabulous support.

[What?]

MorningBird wrote...

VictorianTrash wrote...

MorningBird wrote...

VictorianTrash wrote...

I hated the Chantry and their preachy BS. Had I had the chance, I would've had my 'evil' mage obliterate the Denerim Chapter and wage a war against the Templars and the Circle's lapdogs.

But then what would you have to do in Dragon Age 2? ;D

It's only one chapter. I'd just have to take a little detour to the Black City with Morrigan, gain some more evil blood magic, and then continue on my rampage.

Until all of Thedas is consumed in darkness, I imagine? xD

Honestly, I think it'd be pretty neat to see my mage-Warden become a fallen hero and resurface as some unspeakably horrible evil that Morrigan, Hawke, the remnants of the Chantry, or whomever else would have to work on destroying.

Modifié par VictorianTrash, 02 février 2011 - 11:46 .

[MorningBird]

VictorianTrash wrote...

MorningBird wrote...

VictorianTrash wrote...

MorningBird wrote...

VictorianTrash wrote...

I hated the Chantry and their preachy BS. Had I had the chance, I would've had my 'evil' mage obliterate the Denerim Chapter and wage a war against the Templars and the Circle's lapdogs.

But then what would you have to do in Dragon Age 2? ;D

It's only one chapter. I'd just have to take a little detour to the Black City with Morrigan, gain some more evil blood magic, and then continue on my rampage.

Until all of Thedas is consumed in darkness, I imagine? xD

Honestly, I think it'd be pretty neat to see my mage-Warden become a fallen hero and
resurface as some unspeakably horrible evil that
Morrigan/Hawke/whomever would have to work on destroying.

Which is actually a fairly interesting concept (though one I'm not sure would be used.)  Having the Warden show up in a later installment as the villian, I mean.

Excluding the whole busting into the black city scenario (which sadly isn't possible), the Warden has to go on their Calling eventually, and if you reference the book of the same name, who's to say they don't get captured by darkspawn and twisted into a grand evil until they're completely unrecognizable as the hero they once were, both physically, emotionally, and mentally?

It would be tragic, but it sounds like the makings of a great story to me.

But this is getting off-topic. xD

Modifié par MorningBird, 02 février 2011 - 11:48 .

[GodWood]

Eclipse_9990 wrote...
Oh sorry. Did I say slaves? I meant pets.

Ok, how are they pets?

Lol risk? As was posted numerous times all over this thread Mages being in normal society isnt a problem.

One unregulated child mage (without the Warden's interference) managed to wipe out Redcliffe completely.
Imagine what a whole country side of unregulated mages could do.

It isn't a problem in Tevinter,

The country who was run by powerful blood mages and ultimately caused the first blight?
And who nowadays is the only country that openly supports slavery?
Honestly I don't think Tevinter is a shining beacon of liberalism for everyone to follow, although admittedly my knowledge of current mage policies in Tevinter is minimal however I think this is simply due to the fact that 'we' (the player) do not know much about Tevinter and how they handle mages.

it isnt a problem in Rivain,

Again the knowledge we have of Rivain's mage policies are minimal and thus we cannot determine how successful or unsuccessful they are.

and it certainly isnt a problem with the Dalish.

I know of 2 dalish tribes and one of them happened to cause a curse that resulted in werewolves plaguing the lands for 200 years.

The current system is crap, I really don't get you 'chantry apologists'. 

How would you change it?

[Eclipse_9990]

GodWood wrote...

Eclipse_9990 wrote...
Oh sorry. Did I say slaves? I meant pets.

Ok, how are they pets?

Lol risk? As was posted numerous times all over this thread Mages being in normal society isnt a problem.

One unregulated child mage (without the Warden's interference) managed to wipe out Redcliffe completely.
Imagine what a whole country side of unregulated mages could do.

It isn't a problem in Tevinter,

The country who was run by powerful blood mages and ultimately caused the first blight?
And who nowadays is the only country that openly supports slavery?
Honestly I don't think Tevinter is a shining beacon of liberalism for everyone to follow, although admittedly my knowledge of current mage policies in Tevinter is minimal however I think this is simply due to the fact that 'we' (the player) do not know much about Tevinter and how they handle mages.

it isnt a problem in Rivain,

Again the knowledge we have of Rivain's mage policies are minimal and thus we cannot determine how successful or unsuccessful they are.

and it certainly isnt a problem with the Dalish.

I know of 2 dalish tribes and one of them happened to cause a curse that resulted in werewolves plaguing the lands for 200 years.

The current system is crap, I really don't get you 'chantry apologists'. 

How would you change it?

1) The're slaves or "pets" as I have said because they have no real freedoms of their own. Sure some mages are allowed to be "let out" and leave the circle sometimes, but only if the chantry says so. You really think that because the Mages are given some comforts that they aren't slaves? Get real. Also the Chantry doesn't provide the Circle its stuff, they pay for it out of their own pocket. 

2) Lol, god I can totally imagine you as the overly paranoid type. Redcliff wasn't "wiped out" their were plenty of people still alive. And that only happened because Connor was still a child, and didn't know how to control his magic. Kids make mistakes all the time. Hell he probably didnt even know what a Desire demon was.

As for the whole country side full of mages thing. I hate to beat an old horse but Tevinter. Mage's running around all over the place, and things are fine. Rivain, again Mages are revered and honored(as they should be), and there are no problems. 

3) Um. The Mages causing the blight thing is most likely superstition..  Besides Tevinter mages were probably one of the first people to become Grey Wardens in the first place. 

If there was an issue with Mages running around in Rivain it probably wouldnt even be used as an example in the first place..

As for the Dalish. Having a Keeper(A mage leader) is pretty much tradition for them, and for good reason. Besides the humans who tortured the Keepers son, and raped his daughter totally had that curse coming to them. Zathrien was only guilty of taking the curse too far, and putting his vengeance over the needs of his people. 

4) How would I change it? Well I would still have Mage children to be taken away for training, only if they don't have Mage Parent's or relatives capable of "home schooling" them so to speak. After they've passed their training they'd be free to leave, and find their fortune or purpose somewhere else, or work in the circle.... WITH PAY.

Modifié par Eclipse_9990, 02 février 2011 - 12:38 .

[Mlaar]

was just thinking about the people who dislike the chantry using the argument that mages are prisoned in the circle infact was mulling over this for a while before I came to the conclusion that its a lot of hogwash!! sure mages as they are discovered are sent to the circle sounds terrible dosnt it to be confined in a place where they can learn to manage thier powers in a controlled enviroment but a prison it is not, why I hear you ask, well as their knowledge in the arts improve and they become more responsible with thier powers more liberties are given to the extent where they leave the tower settle, marry have children, travel the land this is shown time and time again throughout the game, infact the only mages truely complaining are the younger generations and this is typically the most rebellious stage of life as they havnt enough maturity or responsibility, take Anders for example willing to throw lightning bolts at anybody he deems is a fool his words alone condemn his lack of responsibilty.

I would infact praise the chantry for not caving into fear and actually making a stance by saying look mages you were born with these gifts from the maker now you must learn how to use them without causing terror in the populace,so they lose a few years due to study but they come away from it much the wiser, the fact that so many choose to remain with the confines of the tower shows that it is actually something they care for a great deal the more knowledgable they become.

From what I saw the Templars and mages relationship was one of mutal respect with the only tension being caused by the strain that perhaps they would have to take a life of one who couldnt control his actions.

So no the chantry is not evil foul cruel for having mages put into the tower for it is in the best intentions

[Eclipse_9990]

Mlaar wrote...

was just thinking about the people who dislike the chantry using the argument that mages are prisoned in the circle infact was mulling over this for a while before I came to the conclusion that its a lot of hogwash!! sure mages as they are discovered are sent to the circle sounds terrible dosnt it to be confined in a place where they can learn to manage thier powers in a controlled enviroment but a prison it is not, why I hear you ask, well as their knowledge in the arts improve and they become more responsible with thier powers more liberties are given to the extent where they leave the tower settle, marry have children, travel the land this is shown time and time again throughout the game, infact the only mages truely complaining are the younger generations and this is typically the most rebellious stage of life as they havnt enough maturity or responsibility, take Anders for example willing to throw lightning bolts at anybody he deems is a fool his words alone condemn his lack of responsibilty.
I would infact praise the chantry for not caving into fear and actually making a stance by saying look mages you were born with these gifts from the maker now you must learn how to use them without causing terror in the populace,so they lose a few years due to study but they come away from it much the wiser, the fact that so many choose to remain with the confines of the tower shows that it is actually something they care for a great deal the more knowledgable they become.
From what I saw the Templars and mages relationship was one of mutal respect with the only tension being caused by the strain that perhaps they would have to take a life of one who couldnt control his actions.
So no the chantry is not evil foul cruel for having mages put into the tower for it is in the best intentions

ROFL. "Mutual respect"? Templar's and Mage's HATE each other. They utterly despise one another. Lol what game are you playing? 

[Augustei]

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Mlaar wrote...

was just thinking about the people who dislike the chantry using the argument that mages are prisoned in the circle infact was mulling over this for a while before I came to the conclusion that its a lot of hogwash!! sure mages as they are discovered are sent to the circle sounds terrible dosnt it to be confined in a place where they can learn to manage thier powers in a controlled enviroment but a prison it is not, why I hear you ask, well as their knowledge in the arts improve and they become more responsible with thier powers more liberties are given to the extent where they leave the tower settle, marry have children, travel the land this is shown time and time again throughout the game, infact the only mages truely complaining are the younger generations and this is typically the most rebellious stage of life as they havnt enough maturity or responsibility, take Anders for example willing to throw lightning bolts at anybody he deems is a fool his words alone condemn his lack of responsibilty.
I would infact praise the chantry for not caving into fear and actually making a stance by saying look mages you were born with these gifts from the maker now you must learn how to use them without causing terror in the populace,so they lose a few years due to study but they come away from it much the wiser, the fact that so many choose to remain with the confines of the tower shows that it is actually something they care for a great deal the more knowledgable they become.
From what I saw the Templars and mages relationship was one of mutal respect with the only tension being caused by the strain that perhaps they would have to take a life of one who couldnt control his actions.
So no the chantry is not evil foul cruel for having mages put into the tower for it is in the best intentions

ROFL. "Mutual respect"? Templar's and Mage's HATE each other. They utterly despise one another. Lol what game are you playing? 

heh.. Yeah ok, I seem to remember when Gregoir and Irving were talking to each other they were beating the S*#it out of each other.. Oh Wait! No they wern't! Probably had something to do with. Mutual respect...

Oh and the mage origin.. i seem to remember Cullen having a crush on female mages and having a pretty normal friendly conversation not involving him bashing in My mages skull.. Probably had something to do with mutual respect.

Templars and mages do not "HATE" each other.

Modifié par XxDeonxX, 02 février 2011 - 12:45 .

[Eclipse_9990]

XxDeonxX wrote...

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Mlaar wrote...

was just thinking about the people who dislike the chantry using the argument that mages are prisoned in the circle infact was mulling over this for a while before I came to the conclusion that its a lot of hogwash!! sure mages as they are discovered are sent to the circle sounds terrible dosnt it to be confined in a place where they can learn to manage thier powers in a controlled enviroment but a prison it is not, why I hear you ask, well as their knowledge in the arts improve and they become more responsible with thier powers more liberties are given to the extent where they leave the tower settle, marry have children, travel the land this is shown time and time again throughout the game, infact the only mages truely complaining are the younger generations and this is typically the most rebellious stage of life as they havnt enough maturity or responsibility, take Anders for example willing to throw lightning bolts at anybody he deems is a fool his words alone condemn his lack of responsibilty.
I would infact praise the chantry for not caving into fear and actually making a stance by saying look mages you were born with these gifts from the maker now you must learn how to use them without causing terror in the populace,so they lose a few years due to study but they come away from it much the wiser, the fact that so many choose to remain with the confines of the tower shows that it is actually something they care for a great deal the more knowledgable they become.
From what I saw the Templars and mages relationship was one of mutal respect with the only tension being caused by the strain that perhaps they would have to take a life of one who couldnt control his actions.
So no the chantry is not evil foul cruel for having mages put into the tower for it is in the best intentions

ROFL. "Mutual respect"? Templar's and Mage's HATE each other. They utterly despise one another. Lol what game are you playing? 

heh.. Yeah ok, I seem to remember when Gregoir and Irving were talking to each other they were beating the S*#it out of each other.. Oh Wait! No they wern't! Probably had something to do with. Mutual respect...

Oh and the mage origin.. i seem to remember Cullen having a crush on female mages and having a pretty normal friendly conversation not involving him bashing in My mages skull.. Probably had something to do with mutual respect.

Irving and Gregoir is a very rare exception. And Cullen having a crush on the female warden isnt about "Mutual Respect" its about wanting to **** her. Yeah.. Read the Dragon Age comic. Basically  a Templar becomes attracted to a Mage. Gets her pregnant. Then ends up killing her. Yeah... 

Modifié par Eclipse_9990, 02 février 2011 - 12:45 .

[Augustei]

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

XxDeonxX wrote...

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Mlaar wrote...

was just thinking about the people who dislike the chantry using the argument that mages are prisoned in the circle infact was mulling over this for a while before I came to the conclusion that its a lot of hogwash!! sure mages as they are discovered are sent to the circle sounds terrible dosnt it to be confined in a place where they can learn to manage thier powers in a controlled enviroment but a prison it is not, why I hear you ask, well as their knowledge in the arts improve and they become more responsible with thier powers more liberties are given to the extent where they leave the tower settle, marry have children, travel the land this is shown time and time again throughout the game, infact the only mages truely complaining are the younger generations and this is typically the most rebellious stage of life as they havnt enough maturity or responsibility, take Anders for example willing to throw lightning bolts at anybody he deems is a fool his words alone condemn his lack of responsibilty.
I would infact praise the chantry for not caving into fear and actually making a stance by saying look mages you were born with these gifts from the maker now you must learn how to use them without causing terror in the populace,so they lose a few years due to study but they come away from it much the wiser, the fact that so many choose to remain with the confines of the tower shows that it is actually something they care for a great deal the more knowledgable they become.
From what I saw the Templars and mages relationship was one of mutal respect with the only tension being caused by the strain that perhaps they would have to take a life of one who couldnt control his actions.
So no the chantry is not evil foul cruel for having mages put into the tower for it is in the best intentions

ROFL. "Mutual respect"? Templar's and Mage's HATE each other. They utterly despise one another. Lol what game are you playing? 

heh.. Yeah ok, I seem to remember when Gregoir and Irving were talking to each other they were beating the S*#it out of each other.. Oh Wait! No they wern't! Probably had something to do with. Mutual respect...

Oh and the mage origin.. i seem to remember Cullen having a crush on female mages and having a pretty normal friendly conversation not involving him bashing in My mages skull.. Probably had something to do with mutual respect.

Irving and Gregoir is a very rare exception. And Cullen having a crush on the female warden isnt about "Mutual Respect" its about wanting to **** her. Yeah.. Read the Dragon Age comic. Basically  a Templar becomes attracted to a Mage. Gets her pregnant. Then ends up killing her. Yeah... 

Yeah because she runs away from the circle. And that templar was an idiot
And what proof do you have that they Hate each other? give me a few examples

Modifié par XxDeonxX, 02 février 2011 - 12:47 .

[Mlaar]

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

ROFL. "Mutual respect"? Templar's and Mage's HATE each other. They utterly despise one another. Lol what game are you playing? 

Sorry I just never saw The hate that you seem to think is so rife within the land what example have you that they Hate each other? Morrigans biased opinions? the ravings of a templar forced into maddness by corrupt mages at the top of a tower? thier is more in the game to show they co-exist than thier is to say they hate each other

[Eclipse_9990]

XxDeonxX wrote...

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

XxDeonxX wrote...

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Mlaar wrote...

was just thinking about the people who dislike the chantry using the argument that mages are prisoned in the circle infact was mulling over this for a while before I came to the conclusion that its a lot of hogwash!! sure mages as they are discovered are sent to the circle sounds terrible dosnt it to be confined in a place where they can learn to manage thier powers in a controlled enviroment but a prison it is not, why I hear you ask, well as their knowledge in the arts improve and they become more responsible with thier powers more liberties are given to the extent where they leave the tower settle, marry have children, travel the land this is shown time and time again throughout the game, infact the only mages truely complaining are the younger generations and this is typically the most rebellious stage of life as they havnt enough maturity or responsibility, take Anders for example willing to throw lightning bolts at anybody he deems is a fool his words alone condemn his lack of responsibilty.
I would infact praise the chantry for not caving into fear and actually making a stance by saying look mages you were born with these gifts from the maker now you must learn how to use them without causing terror in the populace,so they lose a few years due to study but they come away from it much the wiser, the fact that so many choose to remain with the confines of the tower shows that it is actually something they care for a great deal the more knowledgable they become.
From what I saw the Templars and mages relationship was one of mutal respect with the only tension being caused by the strain that perhaps they would have to take a life of one who couldnt control his actions.
So no the chantry is not evil foul cruel for having mages put into the tower for it is in the best intentions

ROFL. "Mutual respect"? Templar's and Mage's HATE each other. They utterly despise one another. Lol what game are you playing? 

heh.. Yeah ok, I seem to remember when Gregoir and Irving were talking to each other they were beating the S*#it out of each other.. Oh Wait! No they wern't! Probably had something to do with. Mutual respect...

Oh and the mage origin.. i seem to remember Cullen having a crush on female mages and having a pretty normal friendly conversation not involving him bashing in My mages skull.. Probably had something to do with mutual respect.

Irving and Gregoir is a very rare exception. And Cullen having a crush on the female warden isnt about "Mutual Respect" its about wanting to **** her. Yeah.. Read the Dragon Age comic. Basically  a Templar becomes attracted to a Mage. Gets her pregnant. Then ends up killing her. Yeah... 

Yeah because she runs away from the circle. And that templar was an idiot
And what proof do you have that they Hate each other? give me a few examples

Proof? Okay. 
That Templar that was pulling that Mage child by a leash, and threatening him with a knife to perform a "trick" for the blacksmith. (Once again Dragon age comic) 

Uldred pretty much despises anyone who has to do with the chantry.

Those Templars who tried to ambush Anders in Awakening.

Cullen mentions to the mage warden when he says he's glad that he didnt have to kill you. That the Templars he knows discuss culling mages with glee.

I mean honestly. You actually think Templars.. The people who's job it is to constantly watch Mages, and kill, or capture them. Actually like each other.. Even a little? Sure they might not be openly hostile but to think the majority of them even respect each other is laughable. 

Modifié par Eclipse_9990, 02 février 2011 - 12:55 .

[GodWood]

Eclipse_9990 wrote...
1) The're slaves or "pets" as I have said because they have no real freedoms of their own. Sure some mages are allowed to be "let out" and leave the circle sometimes, but only if the chantry says so. You really think that because the Mages are given some comforts that they aren't slaves? Get real.

Like I said before mages have free accomodation, free food, free education, they are free to intermingle with one another and with Chantry permission are free to have little excusions.
What more do they need?
Honestly the current mage set up seems like a life long boarding school that simply requires you to pass one test successfully.

Also the Chantry doesn't provide the Circle its stuff, they pay for it out of their own pocket.

My first thought was "So?" closely followed by a "Really"?
Where does it say that? (I don't not believe i'm simply curious)

2) Lol, god I can totally imagine you as the overly paranoid type. Redcliff wasn't "wiped out" their were plenty of people still alive. And that only happened because Connor was still a child, and didn't know how to control his magic. Kids make mistakes all the time. Hell he probably didnt even know what a Desire demon was.

Nope you're wrong there.
Without the Warden's interference everyone sans a scavenger and a wounded Bann Teagan is killed and reanimated by Connor to attack the warden.
You justify this by saying "He's a child, he didn't know how to control his power, probably didn't even know what a Desire Demon was".
These are all things he would of learned had he been sent to the tower now wouldn't they?

As for the whole country side full of mages thing. I hate to beat an old horse but Tevinter. Mage's running around all over the place, and things are fine.

Evidence? From what we know of modern Tevinter it hardly seems 'fine'.

Rivain, again Mages are revered and honored(as they should be), and there are no problems.

1/ Evidence?
2/ I'm sensing some mage superiority tendencies here, are you suggesting it's the mages who should be in control? 

3) Um. The Mages causing the blight thing is most likely superstition..

And that is an assumption on your part (clouded by your pro-mage bias)
Regardless of whether the Chantry's story is entirely true or not, most legends have their foundations in truth and I wouldn't say it's too far fetched to suggest that general gist was.
There was loads of corrupt powerful tevinter mages -> they had no restrictions on their magic -> magic did some sh*t -> First Darkspawn were created.

Besides Tevinter mages were probably one of the first people to become Grey Wardens in the first place.

The first Grey Wardens were from the Anderfels. 

If their was an issue with Mages running around in Rivain it probably wouldnt even be used as an example in the first place..

A lack of information is not proof of information

As for the Dalish. Having a Keeper(A mage leader) is pretty much tradition for them, and for good reason. Besides the humans who tortured the Keepers son, and raped his daughter totally had that curse coming to them. Zathrien was only guilty of taking the curse too far, and putting his vengeance over the needs of his people.

He could of simply killed them, tortured them, whatever, but no instead he chose to use his blood magic to turn them into werewolves have them infect innocents and have the curse spread for 200 years.
Another good reason why mages should have their powers limited and regulated. 

4) How would I change it? Well I would still have Mage children to be taken away for training, only if they don't have Mage Parent's or relatives capable of "home schooling" them so to speak. After they've passed their training they'd be free to leave, and find their fortune or purpose somewhere else, or work in the circle.... WITH PAY.

I don't like it.
Who regulates what they learn?
How much influence can they have in society?
Are there laws in place prohibiting the use of magic without supervision?
Are Phylacteries still used?
How much power do Templars wield? (if they still even exist?)
What happens when a bunch turn into abominations? Having them running free would make them harder to catch.

[Mlaar]

[quote]Eclipse_9990 wrote...
[/quote]
Proof? Okay. 
That Templar that was pulling that Mage child by a leash, and threatening him with a knife to perform a "trick" for the blacksmith. (Once again Dragon age comic) 

Uldred pretty much despises anyone who has to do with the chantry.

Those Templars who tried to ambush Anders in Awakening.

Cullen mentions to the mage warden when he says he's glad that he didnt have to kill you. That the Templars he knows discuss culling mages with glee.

I mean honestly. You actually think Templars.. The people who's job it is to constantly watch Mages, and kill, or capture them. Actually like each other.. Even a little? Sure they might not be openly hostile but to think the majority of them even respect each other is laughable. 

[/quote]
Well I havn't read the comics so I cant comment on that but then comics are different from designers views and are given artistic license

Uldred is not a very good example to use since well you saw how he turned out

Templars who ambushed Anders believed thier comrades had been slain by him they were emotionally involved and therefore had personal reason to want him dead thier reasoning is the only thing in question

I'll have to run through the game again about culling mages with glee I musta missed that part

dont mistake mutal respect with like/hate they are completly different things I also stated they co-exist not that they jump into bed with each other and best of buddies,

You say Mages hate templars and vice versa yet each case you present is an extreme, Yet (sorry im usless with npc names) leader of mages guild, Wynne and various other elder mages are fine or impartial to the templars when you speak to them, and when you see them talking it is mutal respect. Infact Gregor though he has called for the rite of annulment comes across as very reluctant to have had to call for it and you can hear the hint of sadness in his voice that he did so.

What you seem to have done is taken a few extreme cases and branded the entire chantry as suspect and elevated mages to a place of ultimate purity on those actions alone

[Lotion Soronarr]

GodWood wrote...

It isn't a problem in Tevinter,

The country who was run by powerful blood mages and ultimately caused the first blight?
And who nowadays is the only country that openly supports slavery?
Honestly I don't think Tevinter is a shining beacon of liberalism for everyone to follow, although admittedly my knowledge of current mage policies in Tevinter is minimal however I think this is simply due to the fact that 'we' (the player) do not know much about Tevinter and how they handle mages.

Tevinter also has mage circles... Mages do NOT run free in Tevinter (unless they are magisters).

[Eclipse_9990]

[quote]GodWood wrote...

[quote]Eclipse_9990 wrote...
1) The're slaves or "pets" as I have said because they have no real freedoms of their own. Sure some mages are allowed to be "let out" and leave the circle sometimes, but only if the chantry says so. You really think that because the Mages are given some comforts that they aren't slaves? Get real.[/quote]1)Like I said before mages have free accomodation, free food, free education, they are free to intermingle with one another and with Chantry permission are free to have little excusions.
What more do they need?
Honestly the current mage set up seems like a life long boarding school that simply requires you to pass one test successfully.
[quote]Also the Chantry doesn't provide the Circle its stuff, they pay for it out of their own pocket.[/quote]2) My first thought was "So?" closely followed by a "Really"?
Where does it say that? (I don't not believe i'm simply curious)
[quote]2) Lol, god I can totally imagine you as the overly paranoid type. Redcliff wasn't "wiped out" their were plenty of people still alive. And that only happened because Connor was still a child, and didn't know how to control his magic. Kids make mistakes all the time. Hell he probably didnt even know what a Desire demon was.[/quote]Nope you're wrong there.
Without the Warden's interference everyone sans a scavenger and a wounded Bann Teagan is killed and reanimated by Connor to attack the warden.
3)You justify this by saying "He's a child, he didn't know how to control his power, probably didn't even know what a Desire Demon was".
These are all things he would of learned had he been sent to the tower now wouldn't they?
[quote]As for the whole country side full of mages thing. I hate to beat an old horse but Tevinter. Mage's running around all over the place, and things are fine.[/quote]4)Evidence? From what we know of modern Tevinter it hardly seems 'fine'.[quote]Rivain, again Mages are revered and honored(as they should be), and there are no problems.[/quote]5)1/ Evidence?
6)2/ I'm sensing some mage superiority tendencies here, are you suggesting it's the mages who should be in control? 
[quote]3) Um. The Mages causing the blight thing is most likely superstition..[/quote]7)And that is an assumption on your part (clouded by your pro-mage bias)
Regardless of whether the Chantry's story is entirely true or not, most legends have their foundations in truth and I wouldn't say it's too far fetched to suggest that general gist was.
There was loads of corrupt powerful tevinter mages -> they had no restrictions on their magic -> magic did some sh*t -> First Darkspawn were created.
[quote]Besides Tevinter mages were probably one of the first people to become Grey Wardens in the first place.[/quote]8)The first Grey Wardens were from the Anderfels. 
[quote]If their was an issue with Mages running around in Rivain it probably wouldnt even be used as an example in the first place..[/quote]A lack of information is not proof of information
[quote]As for the Dalish. Having a Keeper(A mage leader) is pretty much tradition for them, and for good reason. Besides the humans who tortured the Keepers son, and raped his daughter totally had that curse coming to them. Zathrien was only guilty of taking the curse too far, and putting his vengeance over the needs of his people.[/quote]9)He could of simply killed them, tortured them, whatever, but no instead he chose to use his blood magic to turn them into werewolves have them infect innocents and have the curse spread for 200 years.
Another good reason why mages should have their powers limited and regulated. 
[quote]4) How would I change it? Well I would still have Mage children to be taken away for training, only if they don't have Mage Parent's or relatives capable of "home schooling" them so to speak. After they've passed their training they'd be free to leave, and find their fortune or purpose somewhere else, or work in the circle.... WITH PAY.[/quote]10)I don't like it.
Who regulates what they learn?
How much influence can they have in society?
Are there laws in place prohibiting the use of magic without supervision?
Are Phylacteries still used?
How much power do Templars wield? (if they still even exist?)
What happens when a bunch turn into abominations? Having them running free would make them harder to catch.[/quote]

Omg.. I'm fighting a war on 3 fronts now.. 

1) Dude... You do know that one of the Southerners excuses for having slaves was "We give them free room, and board" right? Also "what more do they need?" dude.. There is no substitute for freedom. They need to live their own lives without some old woman, and her army of drug addicted zealots telling them what to do. Thats what they need. I swear if I was a Mage, in that world. I would have totally snapped, and killed a Templar, or priest, and leapt from the tower eventually. 

2) The tranquil, in Ostagar mentions it to you when you ask about enchanting. Enchantment is one of the ways they gain money. Hell the Mages in the tower even have a political party dedicated to making money. As I've said before Magic is useful. VERY useful. Even if Thedas suddenly  started developing automatic weapons, and nuclear bombs, magic would still be useful. Imagine bullets infused with ice or lightning magic. Even a glancing shot would still do critical damage. Take Bioshock as an example.. Not exactly magic but basically the same thing. 

3) Yeah I do justify it as "he's a child" because he is. As I mentioned before I'm not against Mages being taken away for training. The reason why he wasn't was because his mother didn't want to lose him. If Mages had more right like freedom to leave, or being able to inherit titles. The problem in Redcliff  would have never happened. 

4) The problems in Tevinter isn't mage related. Tevinter has problems because the're still recovering from the first blight, and because the're being attacked on a regular basis by Qunari.(Who thanks to their magic has managed to fend off)

5) Evidence? They bloody mentioned it in the blog.

6) If you like to think I am.  

7) Dude. Alistair and pretty much every Grey Warden,and Dwarf acknowledges this as mere myth. 

8) The first Grey Wardens were Tevinter Knights who forsook their former lives to defeat the darkspawn.
How do you think the joining was created? They don't just drink regular darkspawn blood. Darkspawn blood has to be prepared with magic, lyrium, and several mages, as mentioned by Alistair.. Hmm Magic that has something to do with unlocking the power of blood.. Would that be considered blood magic? Now what country of Mages would use that? Read this codex entry.

"The first Blight had already raged for 90 years. The world was in chaos. At Weisshaupt fortress in the desolate Anderfels, a meeting transpired. Soldiers of the Imperium, seasoned veterans who had known nothing their entire lifetimes except hopeless war, came together. When they left Weisshaupt, they had renounced their oaths to the Imperium. They were soldiers no longer: They were the Grey Wardens."

9) Dude.. Those humans have been attacking his people for so long. Those humans deserved every punishment they got.

10)
I imagine senior mages would regulate what they learn.(duh)
They would have plenty of influence in society. A circle by itself is probably one of the richest places in their country.
Laws? I imagine if a Mage goes bonkers, and starts killing people they would be caught and killed. Like any other crazy person. 
Are phylacteries still used? Well Tevinter Mages pretty much invented the Phylactery thing so I'd imagine yes.
No Templars wouldn't exist. 
What happens when an abomination starts running around? Lol what do you think? They send Mages to deal with the situation. You think Mages would let an abomination run free? Your crazy. 

Modifié par Eclipse_9990, 02 février 2011 - 02:43 .

[blothulfur]

Yes rise up against your chantry opressors saarebas and the herds of your human cattle that support them, struggle for freedom even if it means death and tear apart the armies that come to place chains upon you.

Plunge the entirety of Thedas into war if needs be for you deserve the same rights as any other man or woman, there is no fate worse than to be locked in a gilded cage.

And we shall watch and wait.

Hahahahahaha.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Eclipse_9990 wrote...
Proof? Okay. 
That Templar that was pulling that Mage child by a leash, and threatening him with a knife to perform a "trick" for the blacksmith. (Once again Dragon age comic) 

Uldred pretty much despises anyone who has to do with the chantry.

Those Templars who tried to ambush Anders in Awakening.

Cullen mentions to the mage warden when he says he's glad that he didnt have to kill you. That the Templars he knows discuss culling mages with glee.

I mean honestly. You actually think Templars.. The people who's job it is to constantly watch Mages, and kill, or capture them. Actually like each other.. Even a little? Sure they might not be openly hostile but to think the majority of them even respect each other is laughable.

What idocity.

Fist of all DA comics are crap (And written by different poeple..that bring their own biases with them).

Secondly, actions of specific individuals does NOT present everyone. We have plenty of proof of both sides of the coin.

On the bad side, yes we have Cullen mentioningthat SOME templars talk about killing mages with glee, we know the ones that tried to kill Anders were d***, etc...

But since when does that make THEM the basiline and NOT the exception? On what do you base that?

We have plenty of examples of perfectly friendly templars (when you paly a mage). From Irwing, Ser Bryant, Cullen and many others.


HATE?
Your basic knowledge of human psychology is attrocious if you actually think like that.
How can it be possible they don't HATE eachoter? Simple man. Proximity.
Guards and prisoners can be rather freindly. There has to be no hate involved.

Makes ever MORE sense with templars, as they get to know mages from young age...watch them grow. See them every day.