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[Lotion Soronarr]

[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...
You have no prove they ever asked the Dalish for aid during the Second Blight. None. You're using speculation as proof again.[/quote]

Bwahahaha...look who's talking.

Man, I never said I had evidence. I never even implied it.
I said YOU don't have evidence that YOUR version is correct, but you act around like it is.


[quote]
[quote]Lotion Soronnar wrote...
[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...

They declared an Exalted March against the Dales. This isn't in dispute.[/quote]

Not adressing the issue. [/quote]

It is addressing the issue. They called for attacks against the Dales. If it started because the Dalish refused to convert to their religion and sent in templars to force the issue (as the Dalish codex claims), the Chantry clearly aren't the good guys here.[/quote]

The issue was proof.
So no - you are NOT adressing it. Not even close.
Heck, I am closer to farting lightning than you are to actually brining forth any proof.
Start reading dammit!


[quote]
[quote]Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Again, lack of reading comprehension (why am I not surprised?)

It's not matter of Chantry having no influence, but not having enough of it, or risking hostiltiy with Andrastian nations.
If hte kings of 4 other nations answer the call and decide to wipe out the Dalish and take their territory, do you really think they'd just abandon their ideas because the Divine doesn't like it?

Chantry has power, but so do kings. [/quote]

If the Chantry leads an Exalted March against the Dales, why claim they have no power over the other nations they're demanding aid them against an enemy? Again, your condescending comments do little to support your views.[/quote]

They're not "demanding" anything. They are calling. The Andrastian nations feel compelled to help, but how tehy help..well, that's their thing to dicide.

You really give the Chantry too much power and influence.
Are you forgeting that Ferleden, a small backwater country, nearly exiled the Chantry?

The politicla situation and pwoer aren't simple as you make htem out to be...but then again, you simplify stuff on a regualr basis.


[quote]
[quote]Lotion Soronnar wrote...
[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...
Are you planning on making any sense, Lotion? If the Chantry started the war because the Dalish refused to convert to the Chantry of Andraste, then I see no reason why they shouldn't be held accountable if the Dalish codex entry is the correct one.[/quote]

IF it is the correct one. That is one big if.

Innocent until proven guilty is the basis of modern law system (and ironicly, you apply modern moral standards to the Cahtnry, but ignore this).
Neither you nor Ian can actually prove anything, yet are 100% convinced in the "crimes" of the Cahntry and parade your theories as truth.

And this is the reason I aruge on this board. Not because I adore the Chantry. Not because I think they're perfect.
But because I hate extremists that argue like you do, and I enjoy poking holes in their illusions. [/quote]

It seems you're the one who lacks the ability to read here, Lotion. I clearly worded it to show if the Chantry started the war because of what the Dalish claim, I didn't post it as the truth since we're never provided with the answer of which version is the accurate one. And you're an extremist for the Chantry, so I fail to see why you claim otherwise.[/quote]

You're hopeless...Truly you are. Ever noticed hte bolded part?

The extremist is you...and it is in the nature of extremists to see everyone as an enemy - hence why you consider me an extremist.



[quote]
Proof the Dalish were willing to surrender?
Proof that surrender wasn't offered?

Oh yeah...again, you got none. [/quote]

So your idea of winning the argument is to ask ridiculous questions that ignore that an Exalted March was called on the elves, and their nation was sacked, which lead to the elves being homeless or forced into ghettos where their religion was made illegal? Why should the Dalish surrender if their claims that the Chantry was trying to force the elves to convert is accurate? Why should they give up their religion and their beliefs because the humans say so?[/quote]


Erm...Asking for proof is redicolous question?.PROOF?
Well, I guess to you it may be. Proof hurts your arguments.

You just keep repeating the smae accusation again and again and again, without  any actual proof.

[Lotion Soronarr]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Getting some pathos? I'm pointing out how you're pro-Chantry but making condescending comments because people take an opposing view. You and Lotion clearly take the pro-Chantry stand every time, so I don't see the need for condescending remarks simply because others take an opposing view.

Ever wondered WHY we argue against you in these threads?

Because there's not many threads that argue opposite BS. Because you are not arguing the opposite.

If I were to run into you into another thread and you were saying things like "
The Dalish are bloodthirsty murdereds that were sticking humans on the poles!" or "The Chantry is the greatest thing EVAR!" I'd be calling you out on that too. But you don't.

As I told you before..I don't adore the Chantry...I just don't like your posts and the broken logic you use.

[Lotion Soronarr]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

I await proof before condeming the Chantry. Remember, innocent until PROVEN guilty. Not "inocent untill assumed guilty".

Which is why you always take the side of the Chantry, I see....

If you had any capacity for sound reasoning and if you ever bothered to read, you might notice I never sides against the dalish or mages.

I side against YOU, not FOR Chantry.
I'm not taking any strong position on the subject, just poking holes in your position...but you are incapalbe and unwilling of seeing the difference.

No, people disagree with what the Chantry does, and you flame and troll them for it.

If you weren't a spammer and troll, I might even have taken that seruously.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Alas, in their eyes it turns into holding the other extreeme camp.
So it might be wise for you to learn the subtle difference betwen saying "I am right! X is the truth!" (common extremist position) and "You are wrong, you've got no proof" (which is NOT implying that my version is the correct one).

You have no proof that the Chantry is right in many of the arguments, Lotion, especially in the case of the mages. It's never stopped you from supporting them before.

I'm not supporting them, I am defying you.

There is one thing where I do support them (for now). The Circle system.

[Last Vizard]

XxDeonxX wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

The chantry is a force acting against the evolution of Mankind, they FEAR the maker given powers that mages have so they put them in towers, isolated from the rest of the world and therefore preventing them from passing on that genetic material to the next generations..... the simple fact that mages are still being born means that it is the destiny of Mankind to become living Gods.
pretty much Raymond E. Feist's Valheru.
Only a weak minded fool would dance with devils.

Does this suggest that mages are in a higher stage of evolution than non-mages? lol

the destiny of Mankind to become living Gods.

Hmm where have I heard this before.. Oh yeah, The Tevinter Imperium took this approach.. They viewed mages as the superior beings, they saw it as the destiny of mankind to become living gods.. Worked out well for them so we should apply it to... Oh wait It didn't work out for them. They were screwed over. Blood magic was commonly practiced, blood ran through the streets of Minrathous as a Massive sacrifice was made to enter the golden city. Thus darkspawn came to be. and the greatest empire Thedas had seen came crumbling to ruin =D

hahaha yeah, should've been a little more specific.... but that would require me typing for longer.

1. one thing that many people don't understand is that there is no backwards step in evolution, you can't "de"volve or anything, its always moving forward... Yes a Mage is further along the evolutionary path than a non-Mage, the question is how many generations it takes non-Mage families to reach the next level.(selective breeding should be done to speed this up)

2. The Trevinter Imperium was right in this view, Mages are ahead of the curve, a Mage really is a god compared to a normal Human, they shape matter with their will alone.   Trevinter Mages wanted to replace the "Marker" and lets face it, there could be no none belivers in this world if demons are real....

what i'm saying is that the Trivinter Empire is evil to start with, the idea of slavery makes my blood boil (but thats a different debate), yes Mages F'd the world, but they are the only ones who can right this wrong. The chantry should stop holding Mages back and let them fix this.

[Last Vizard]

Ziggeh wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

The chantry is a force acting against the evolution of Mankind

What evidence do we have that he humans in thedas evolved?

WTF?

[Last Vizard]

Elsariel wrote...

XxDeonxX wrote...

Hmm where have I heard this before.. Oh yeah, The Tevinter Imperium took this approach.. They viewed mages as the superior beings, they saw it as the destiny of mankind to become living gods.. Worked out well for them so we should apply it to... Oh wait It didn't work out for them. They were screwed over. Blood magic was commonly practiced, blood ran through the streets of Minrathous as a Massive sacrifice was made to enter the golden city. Thus darkspawn came to be. and the greatest empire Thedas had seen came crumbling to ruin =D

I think learning from past mistakes can prevent future civilizations from making them again.  Mages can still be highly valued in society as long as they are checked.  And not checked in the way the Chantry likes to check them. 

^same thing happened in X-men universe, this is a reduction of rights due to one being superior to the majority.

[Ziggeh]

Last Vizard wrote...

Ziggeh wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

The chantry is a force acting against the evolution of Mankind

What evidence do we have that he humans in thedas evolved?

WTF?

It's a fantasy universe with a structured system of the supernatural, the presence of several similarly developed sentient species and the literal presence of dieties.

That sentence earned me a number of alliteration points.

I don't believe you can assume it conforms to the same natural laws as a universe without such things. For one, because it doesn't.

Modifié par Ziggeh, 09 février 2011 - 04:49 .

[Elsariel]

Ziggeh wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

Ziggeh wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

The chantry is a force acting against the evolution of Mankind

What evidence do we have that he humans in thedas evolved?

WTF?

It's a fantasy universe with a structured system of the supernatural, the presence of several similarly developed sentient species and the literal presence of dieties.

That sentence earned me a number of alliteration points.

I don't believe you can assume it conforms to the same natural laws as a universe without such things. For one, because it doesn't.

I lol'd. 

I agree with you, too.  It's a fantasy universe where all races could have actually been created as is instead of evolved. 

[Ziggeh]

Last Vizard wrote...
1. one thing that many people don't understand is that there is no backwards step in evolution, you can't "de"volve or anything, its always moving forward... Yes a Mage is further along the evolutionary path than a non-Mage, the question is how many generations it takes non-Mage families to reach the next level.(selective breeding should be done to speed this up)

Evolution "values" the ability to procreate, not to become "better", it has no sense of better. Selective breeding wouldn't "speed up" evolution, it would circumvent it.

[moilami]

Elsariel wrote...

Ziggeh wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

Ziggeh wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

The chantry is a force acting against the evolution of Mankind

What evidence do we have that he humans in thedas evolved?

WTF?

It's a fantasy universe with a structured system of the supernatural, the presence of several similarly developed sentient species and the literal presence of dieties.

That sentence earned me a number of alliteration points.

I don't believe you can assume it conforms to the same natural laws as a universe without such things. For one, because it doesn't.

I lol'd. 

I agree with you, too.  It's a fantasy universe where all races could have actually been created as is instead of evolved. 

Er..are you all saying crossbreeding would not work?

[Beren082]

Ziggeh wrote...

Evolution "values" the ability to procreate, not to become "better", it has no sense of better. Selective breeding wouldn't "speed up" evolution, it would circumvent it.

Apperently, Mages are more attractive

[Elsariel]

moilami wrote...

Elsariel wrote...

Ziggeh wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

Ziggeh wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

The chantry is a force acting against the evolution of Mankind

What evidence do we have that he humans in thedas evolved?

WTF?

It's a fantasy universe with a structured system of the supernatural, the presence of several similarly developed sentient species and the literal presence of dieties.

That sentence earned me a number of alliteration points.

I don't believe you can assume it conforms to the same natural laws as a universe without such things. For one, because it doesn't.

I lol'd. 

I agree with you, too.  It's a fantasy universe where all races could have actually been created as is instead of evolved. 

Er..are you all saying crossbreeding would not work?

Not at all.  Clearly, crossbreeding does work, however, it doesn't appear that half-human/half-elven exists.  The product of a human/elf.. uh... mating.... is human.  I'm unclear what happens with other crossbreeding, though, in regards to what the dominant species is.

[Ziggeh]

Beren082 wrote...

Ziggeh wrote...

Evolution "values" the ability to procreate, not to become "better", it has no sense of better. Selective breeding wouldn't "speed up" evolution, it would circumvent it.

Apperently, Mages are more attractive

Attractive doesn't increase your chance of breeding, it just helps you get a more attractive mate.

[Spaghetti_Ninja]

XxDeonxX wrote...

Hmm where have I heard this before.. Oh yeah, The Tevinter Imperium took this approach.. They viewed mages as the superior beings, they saw it as the destiny of mankind to become living gods.. Worked out well for them so we should apply it to... Oh wait It didn't work out for them. They were screwed over. Blood magic was commonly practiced, blood ran through the streets of Minrathous as a Massive sacrifice was made to enter the golden city. Thus darkspawn came to be. and the greatest empire Thedas had seen came crumbling to ruin =D

That's ONE THEORY. One that holds about as much water as anything writting in the bible: not very much. It's a story the Chantry tells people.

Another interpretation: there is no evidence that Tevinter was in any way responsible for what happened to the Golden City (if it indeed existed) nor the rise of the Darkspawn, or anything else.

What is clear is that the Tevinter civilization was overrun by barbarians, and those barbarians seized power themselves, invented their own crazy religion based around the wife of their leader, and then proceeded to shackle the mages. An improvement over the mages enslaving the barbarians? A matter of perspective.

[LobselVith8]

[quote]Lotion Soronnar wrote...

[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...

You have no prove they ever asked the Dalish for aid during the Second Blight. None. You're using speculation as proof again.[/quote]

Bwahahaha...look who's talking.

Man, I never said I had evidence. I never even implied it.
I said YOU don't have evidence that YOUR version is correct, but you act around like it is. [/quote]

You're making no sense. I clearly addressed the Dalish version of events as that - their codex, their POV. I never claimed it was the absolute truth, but I've stated it's what they say happened.

[quote]Lotion Soronnar wrote...

[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...

It is addressing the issue. They called for attacks against the Dales. If it started because the Dalish refused to convert to their religion and sent in templars to force the issue (as the Dalish codex claims), the Chantry clearly aren't the good guys here.[/quote]

The issue was proof.
So no - you are NOT adressing it. Not even close.
Heck, I am closer to farting lightning than you are to actually brining forth any proof.
Start reading dammit! [/quote]

I read what you write, but you fail to make any sense. You have no proof anyone from the Orlesian Empire asked for aid from the elves. It's never mentioned in the codex entries from either side, in fact. What we do know is that the Chantry of Andraste declared an Exalted March on them that resulted with the Dalish clans and the elves of the Alienages who are forbidden from worshipping the elven gods and have to worship the Maker.

[quote]Lotion Soronnar wrote...

[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...

If the Chantry leads an Exalted March against the Dales, why claim they have no power over the other nations they're demanding aid them against an enemy? Again, your condescending comments do little to support your views.[/quote]

They're not "demanding" anything. They are calling. The Andrastian nations feel compelled to help, but how tehy help..well, that's their thing to dicide. [/quote]

They're telling the other nations to come to their aid and follow them into battle in a holy war.

[quote]Lotion Soronnar wrote...

You really give the Chantry too much power and influence.
Are you forgeting that Ferleden, a small backwater country, nearly exiled the Chantry? [/quote]

I notice you left out the reason why Loghain and Maric couldn't exile the Chantry of Andraste from Ferelden.

[quote]Lotion Soronnar wrote...

The politicla situation and pwoer aren't simple as you make htem out to be...but then again, you simplify stuff on a regualr basis. [/quote]

You mean my expectation for arguments to make sense?

[quote]Lotion Soronnar wrote...

[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...

Are you planning on making any sense, Lotion? If the Chantry started the war because the Dalish refused to convert to the Chantry of Andraste, then I see no reason why they shouldn't be held accountable if the Dalish codex entry is the correct one.[/quote]

IF it is the correct one. That is one big if.

Innocent until proven guilty is the basis of modern law system (and ironicly, you apply modern moral standards to the Cahtnry, but ignore this).
Neither you nor Ian can actually prove anything, yet are 100% convinced in the "crimes" of the Cahntry and parade your theories as truth. [/quote]

Modern standards exist in DA:O. Just look at the treatment of women to recognize this.

Regarding the failings of the Chantry, I can see that templars are made addicts and mages have no rights. I contest what's being done based on what we know to be true. When templars can murder D'Sims because of their suspicions, when the templars can invoke the Rite of Tranquility without providing the evidence to the First Enchanter, when the system in place can be called oppressive in the actual game and is referred to as a prison in the VO, then I don't see why I can't contest what's being done.

[quote]Lotion Soronnar wrote...

[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...

It seems you're the one who lacks the ability to read here, Lotion. I clearly worded it to show if the Chantry started the war because of what the Dalish claim, I didn't post it as the truth since we're never provided with the answer of which version is the accurate one. And you're an extremist for the Chantry, so I fail to see why you claim otherwise.[/quote]

You're hopeless...Truly you are. Ever noticed hte bolded part?

The extremist is you...and it is in the nature of extremists to see everyone as an enemy - hence why you consider me an extremist. [/quote]

No, I consider you a liar and a troll who has personally attacked me and others because I dared to disagree with you about the Chantry.

[quote]Lotion Soronnar wrote...

[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...

So your idea of winning the argument is to ask ridiculous questions that ignore that an Exalted March was called on the elves, and their nation was sacked, which lead to the elves being homeless or forced into ghettos where their religion was made illegal? Why should the Dalish surrender if their claims that the Chantry was trying to force the elves to convert is accurate? Why should they give up their religion and their beliefs because the humans say so?[/quote]

Erm...Asking for proof is redicolous question?.PROOF? [/quote]

No, you veered into asking questions that had little to do with the actual argument because you consistently take the Chantry's side. You make accusations without proof but then ask for evidence whenever anyone makes a comment against the Chantry or the Order of Templars that we clearly learn about or see in the actual game or novels. You're pro-Chantry, you have for over a year now, which is fine except for the fact that you seem to love attacking people who disagree with you.

[quote]Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Well, I guess to you it may be. Proof hurts your arguments.

You just keep repeating the smae accusation again and again and again, without  any actual proof. [/quote]

You mean the proof that the History of the Circle codex reveals that mages were segregated from society as a result of a nonviolent protest? The fact that D'Sims was killed because the templars wrongly thought that he was a mage who healed people? The fact that even Wynne doesn't contest that the Circle is an oppressive place? How Fiona didn't see the Circle as any better than her previous life as the sex slave to an Orlesian noble? Clearly, not everyone agrees with your assessment of the Chantry and what they're doing.

[Cypher0020]

I have a love/hate relationship with the Chantry/Templars... I guess I take the neccessary evil route, like Cerberus

[Augustei]

Spaghetti_Ninja wrote...

XxDeonxX wrote...

Hmm where have I heard this before.. Oh yeah, The Tevinter Imperium took this approach.. They viewed mages as the superior beings, they saw it as the destiny of mankind to become living gods.. Worked out well for them so we should apply it to... Oh wait It didn't work out for them. They were screwed over. Blood magic was commonly practiced, blood ran through the streets of Minrathous as a Massive sacrifice was made to enter the golden city. Thus darkspawn came to be. and the greatest empire Thedas had seen came crumbling to ruin =D

That's ONE THEORY. One that holds about as much water as anything writting in the bible: not very much. It's a story the Chantry tells people.

Another interpretation: there is no evidence that Tevinter was in any way responsible for what happened to the Golden City (if it indeed existed) nor the rise of the Darkspawn, or anything else.

What is clear is that the Tevinter civilization was overrun by barbarians, and those barbarians seized power themselves, invented their own crazy religion based around the wife of their leader, and then proceeded to shackle the mages. An improvement over the mages enslaving the barbarians? A matter of perspective.

As much as anything in the bible aye? well considering the bible was the first source to say that the world isn't held up by anything I think that statement holds about as much water as The Atacama desert. Please dont openly mock the real life religions in this thread

And yes, I am aware it is just one point of view and isn't confirmed correct. Could be dead wrong.

Saying that mages are the superior people and supporting tevinters views of that and having them literally living above all overs in society is quite rediculous though. Do you remember what happened the last time a people thought themselves the better of all others?

Also the founding of that new religion didn't sacrifice people and have their blood run through the streets for the purpose of empowering the maleficar. It didn't openly support slavery as well.

The fact of the matter is you cant really say though that one was dead wrong and the other was completely right..
One supports imprisoning mages
The other supports elivating them above all others

For things to work out properly you have to givew them both a level playing field. Works in Rivain, works for the dalish, works for the barbarians.

Modifié par XxDeonxX, 09 février 2011 - 05:27 .

[LobselVith8]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Getting some pathos? I'm pointing out how you're pro-Chantry but making condescending comments because people take an opposing view. You and Lotion clearly take the pro-Chantry stand every time, so I don't see the need for condescending remarks simply because others take an opposing view.

Ever wondered WHY we argue against you in these threads?

By "we" you mean Emperor and yourself? Emperor, the same person who said freeing mages would be theft of Chantry "property" you mean? Or are we going to discuss how you once claimed abominations were handing out quests for the Mages Collective in one of your pro-Chantry arguments?

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Because there's not many threads that argue opposite BS. Because you are not arguing the opposite.

You mean you lie and make accusations that aren't true or call people stupid while Ian and others make valid arguments to contest what you say? Even Sir JK can make the argument for the Chantry without resorting to trolling or flaming people.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

If I were to run into you into another thread and you were saying things like "The Dalish are bloodthirsty murdereds that were sticking humans on the poles!" or "The Chantry is the greatest thing EVAR!" I'd be calling you out on that too. But you don't.

As I told you before..I don't adore the Chantry...I just don't like your posts and the broken logic you use.

You do adore the Chantry, you've made that clear on multiple threads for over a year now. I don't see why you keep denying it.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Which is why you always take the side of the Chantry, I see....

If you had any capacity for sound reasoning and if you ever bothered to read, you might notice I never sides against the dalish or mages.

I side against YOU, not FOR Chantry.
I'm not taking any strong position on the subject, just poking holes in your position...but you are incapalbe and unwilling of seeing the difference.

You mean by calling me stupid, you're poking holes in my arguments? Or when you claimed that I called you a Chantry fanboy but never backed up any links to support it, and then admitted you lied about it? You clearly side with the Chantry all the time. I don't see why you keep denying it when anyone can see it's not true.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

No, people disagree with what the Chantry does, and you flame and troll them for it.

If you weren't a spammer and troll, I might even have taken that seruously.

Coming from the guy who calls people names and has failed to back up his arguments with any lore, codex entries, or story examples...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

You have no proof that the Chantry is right in many of the arguments, Lotion, especially in the case of the mages. It's never stopped you from supporting them before.

I'm not supporting them, I am defying you.

There is one thing where I do support them (for now). The Circle system.

You're welcome to your opinion, Lotion, but not to personally attack people for taking an opposing view. Sir JK supports the Chantry, and I honestly don't care; she's welcome to her opinion. I don't attack her for it like you do everyone who disagrees with the Chantry and the templars. DA2 should give Hawke the right to side with the mages or the templars, and make some impact for either side.

[Last Vizard]

Ziggeh wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...
1. one thing that many people don't understand is that there is no backwards step in evolution, you can't "de"volve or anything, its always moving forward... Yes a Mage is further along the evolutionary path than a non-Mage, the question is how many generations it takes non-Mage families to reach the next level.(selective breeding should be done to speed this up)

Evolution "values" the ability to procreate, not to become "better", it has no sense of better. Selective breeding wouldn't "speed up" evolution, it would circumvent it.

Yes that is true, but when you factor in one oraganism being able to shoot lightening from his finger tips straight into the face of the other organism and perhaps at the crutch instead then what you end up with is one god like organism who can still reproduce.......

[Augustei]

Mages can still die die though. I just get cover behind my shield, approach them and stab them and they die unlike the concept of a god.
And if the chantrys story is true, a bunch of very powerful Maleficar Blood mages entered the golden city to try and kill a real god and well.. Failed miserably.. probably  to the point where he was sitting on his throne and going "Hahaha.. wtf is this???"

Modifié par XxDeonxX, 09 février 2011 - 06:00 .

[Last Vizard]

XxDeonxX wrote...

Mages can still die die though. I just get cover behind my shield, approach them and stab them and they die unlike the concept of a god.
And if the chantrys story is true, a bunch of very powerful Maleficar Blood mages entered the golden city to try and kill a real god and well.. Failed miserably.. probably  to the point where he was sitting on his throne and going "Hahaha.. wtf is this???"

LOL maybe that is true but we did F his golden city up though.
For the sake of balancing in the game a warrior can defeat a Mage, but if it was a true representation then it would be a no contest....  one spell would defeat the warrior, crushing prison stops the warrior from moving and kills him at the same time, while the Mage yells "wheres your god now?"

[moilami]

Last Vizard wrote...

XxDeonxX wrote...

Mages can still die die though. I just get cover behind my shield, approach them and stab them and they die unlike the concept of a god.
And if the chantrys story is true, a bunch of very powerful Maleficar Blood mages entered the golden city to try and kill a real god and well.. Failed miserably.. probably  to the point where he was sitting on his throne and going "Hahaha.. wtf is this???"

LOL maybe that is true but we did F his golden city up though.
For the sake of balancing in the game a warrior can defeat a Mage, but if it was a true representation then it would be a no contest....  one spell would defeat the warrior, crushing prison stops the warrior from moving and kills him at the same time, while the Mage yells "wheres your god now?"

I would lol.


Edit: Would also say OMG maker's breath, laughing.

Edit: Would also say "can I stonefist it pls"?

Modifié par moilami, 09 février 2011 - 06:25 .

[LobselVith8]

Does anyone else find it odd that the Magi boon is turned down by the Chantry when there's little indication that it's going to be the case during the actual royal ceremony in DA:O? At the royal ceremony, there's no indication that the Magi boon will be turned down since the ruler of Ferelden decrees that the mages of Ferelden have earned the right to govern themselves:

Anora: "Is there any boon you might request of Ferelden's queen?"

Warden: "I ask that the Circle of Magi be given its independence."

Anora: "I doubt the Chantry will agree, but you have an excellent point. Let it be known that Ferelden's mages have earned the right to watch over themselves. The tower shall be restored and returned to the Circle."

She makes a proclamation at the end. Although the comment about the Chantry could imply otherwise, it leads to a conversation with First Enchanter Irving, who treats it as a given that the Magi boon has happened.  "I must thank you, however, for freeing the Circle from our shackles. That was most unexpected, indeed! You could have asked for anything." I answered, "I did what I thought was right," and he further commented: "Most would have asked for wealth, or power. Thank you. This is a gift we will not abuse."

Honestly, it reads like a recton to know that the boon was turned down (after reading Gaider's message about it) when the First Enchanter never addresses this as a possibility. In fact, the independent Circle of Orzammar is never even formed when this boon is asked for. If the Chantry said no as far as DA:O was concerned, why is there no independent Circle in Orzammar to reflect that nothing has changed?

Note: Only Anora can give the boon on the vanilla game. It's presently bugged and the flag isn't set if it's Alistair who asks what boon the Warden wants (which you can see because Irving will not acknowledge it as a result).

[Augustei]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Does anyone else find it odd that the Magi boon is turned down by the Chantry when there's little indication that it's going to be the case during the actual royal ceremony in DA:O? At the royal ceremony, there's no indication that the Magi boon will be turned down since the ruler of Ferelden decrees that the mages of Ferelden have earned the right to govern themselves:

Anora: "Is there any boon you might request of Ferelden's queen?"

Warden: "I ask that the Circle of Magi be given its independence."

Anora: "I doubt the Chantry will agree, but you have an excellent point. Let it be known that Ferelden's mages have earned the right to watch over themselves. The tower shall be restored and returned to the Circle."

She makes a proclamation at the end. Although the comment about the Chantry could imply otherwise, it leads to a conversation with First Enchanter Irving, who treats it as a given that the Magi boon has happened.  "I must thank you, however, for freeing the Circle from our shackles. That was most unexpected, indeed! You could have asked for anything." I answered, "I did what I thought was right," and he further commented: "Most would have asked for wealth, or power. Thank you. This is a gift we will not abuse."

Honestly, it reads like a recton to know that the boon was turned down (after reading Gaider's message about it) when the First Enchanter never addresses this as a possibility. In fact, the independent Circle of Orzammar is never even formed when this boon is asked for. If the Chantry said no as far as DA:O was concerned, why is there no independent Circle in Orzammar to reflect that nothing has changed?

Note: Only Anora can give the boon on the vanilla game. It's presently bugged and the flag isn't set if it's Alistair who asks what boon the Warden wants (which you can see because Irving will not acknowledge it as a result).

Yeah the crown has authority in the governing and allocation of lands but no authority in Chantry matters.. I think it has to do with millitary power. I mean when they so "No" what the chantry is really saying is "No, and if you dont like it.. To F*#king bad. Cause we will call an exalted march on you and reduce your Monarchys Authority to nothing"

I think the Boon would have passed in a country that could have stood up to the chantry more easily. Like Nevarra or The Anderfels. The problem with the boon thing, being that the chantrys roots are deep in every country that isn't Seheron, Par Vollen and Rivain. Which is why although i maintain neutrality in general concepts and ideals of the chantry. I have to disagree with the people who say "Get rid of them completely, the chantry sucks" Because well. that task would involve so much more bloodshed then what the chantry could ever do if they were allowed to just continue with things the way they are.

What I dont get is why The Grey Wardens dont enforce their rights more, such as their rights of conscription but also beyond that. Like when the Ferelden King Arland says "Grey Wardens are banned from my land. You Order shall not be permitted her" Why The Wardens didn't say "Oh yeah? well F*#k you buddy" And have an army of anders march upon Denerim or something.. I know they try to maintain neutrality and that it extends beyond simply backlash from nations and orders to being there so that their members could make harder decisions easier.
But to completely ban them from a country where a blight could one day be a threat there. They could have called for support from other nations where they have more respect to not allow this and have their own version of an Exalted March if need be.

I mean even if the other countries dont support it, a unified army of most of the grey wardens would be more then enough to Change Arlands mind if you know what I mean.. I mean like 30 wardens alone almost defeated him

Modifié par XxDeonxX, 09 février 2011 - 06:36 .

[Last Vizard]

moilami wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

XxDeonxX wrote...

Mages can still die die though. I just get cover behind my shield, approach them and stab them and they die unlike the concept of a god.
And if the chantrys story is true, a bunch of very powerful Maleficar Blood mages entered the golden city to try and kill a real god and well.. Failed miserably.. probably  to the point where he was sitting on his throne and going "Hahaha.. wtf is this???"

LOL maybe that is true but we did F his golden city up though.
For the sake of balancing in the game a warrior can defeat a Mage, but if it was a true representation then it would be a no contest....  one spell would defeat the warrior, crushing prison stops the warrior from moving and kills him at the same time, while the Mage yells "wheres your god now?"

I would lol.


Edit: Would also say OMG maker's breath, laughing.

Edit: Would also say "can I stonefist it pls"?

I have read this full thread and I did not found a single new argument for chantry what I haven't seen before. What chantry apologist say can be summed with one chant:

- mages can kill people and are evil

There is the chant.

I have watched about 100 pages of arguing how mages can kill people and should therefore be killed and treated as cattle. And what are the arguments for it? The actual verses of the chant.

- chantry say so
- maker say so
- Wynne say so
- my daddy say so
- I think it is so
- me am sure mages can kill people
- My BF is templar
- omg demons
- mages apparently are dangerous
- lol I want to kill mages
- me hates OP mages in WoW
- mages can mind control
- me have never seen a mage peeing
- mages don't wear armour
- me likes swords
- mages destroy the world (thanks Falls Edge)
- Mages don't have life
- mages MC my momma
- Mages are not people
- Mage did not give **** to me
- Sucks that Morrigan had life
- Sucks Morrigan refused to become mind controlled by me
- me liked Leliana more lol
- me play templar
- I like chantry
- I don't have brains
- It only takes one bad guy mage to make the world a worse place for everyone (thanks Falls Edge)
- You need to work on your reading comphrension skills, among other things.  (thanks Upsettingshorts)
- Jedi padawan (Anonymous)
- set up robot templars instead of human ones (thanks Falls Edge)
- Because all other mages in the Circle has been under the same conditions (Anonymous)
- they want to go where they want to go (thanks Falls Edge)
- Damndable mages, all of em (Anonymous)
- They ought to lock em up tight or kill em all (Anonymous)
- I sure wouldn't want one in my village WOULD YOU (Anonymous)
- Killing innocent is grey area (Anonymous)
- It´s really sad if mages stop being feared because everybody gets access to similar killing power (Anonymous)
- Persoanlly I dislike mages, but they are useful. I just distrust a group of men prancing around in dresses... (Anonymous)


There are the arguments/verses of the chant. I will laugh for those for some days.

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This is gold^ good work moilami lol