1019 réponses à ce sujet

[LobselVith8]

XxDeonxX wrote...

Yeah the crown has authority in the governing and allocation of lands but no authority in Chantry matters.. I think it has to do with millitary power. I mean when they so "No" what the chantry is really saying is "No, and if you dont like it.. To F*#king bad. Cause we will call an exalted march on you and reduce your Monarchys Authority to nothing"

I think the Boon would have passed in a country that could have stood up to the chantry more easily. Like Nevarra or The Anderfels.

I understand why it's "no" for DA2 (because a mage free Ferelden would be the place to go to for an apostate Hawke and Friends), but in DA:O there's no such indication given. Irving takes it for granted that it'll happen, and no independent Circle of Orzammar arises when this boon is requested from Anora during the Epilogue.

XxDeonxX wrote...

What I dont get is why The Grey Wardens dont enforce their rights more, such as their rights of conscription but also beyond that. Like when the Ferelden King Arland says "Grey Wardens are banned from my land. You Order shall not be permitted her" Why The Wardens didn't say "Oh yeah? well F*#k you buddy" And have an army of anders march upon Denerim or something.. I know they try to maintain neutrality and that it extends beyond simply backlash from nations and orders to being there so that their members could make harder decisions easier.
But to completely ban them from a country where a blight could one day be a threat there. They could have called for support from other nations where they have more respect to not allow this and have their own version of an Exalted March if need be.

I think it's a matter that the exile from Ferelden sent a dangerous precedent that the Wardens are looking to avoid, just as becoming the new Arl of Amaranthine sets an incredible precedent for Wardens to have positions of both power and authority even when there's no Blight.

[moilami]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Does anyone else find it odd that the Magi boon is turned down by the Chantry when there's little indication that it's going to be the case during the actual royal ceremony in DA:O? At the royal ceremony, there's no indication that the Magi boon will be turned down since the ruler of Ferelden decrees that the mages of Ferelden have earned the right to govern themselves:

Anora: "Is there any boon you might request of Ferelden's queen?"

Warden: "I ask that the Circle of Magi be given its independence."

Anora: "I doubt the Chantry will agree, but you have an excellent point. Let it be known that Ferelden's mages have earned the right to watch over themselves. The tower shall be restored and returned to the Circle."

She makes a proclamation at the end. Although the comment about the Chantry could imply otherwise, it leads to a conversation with First Enchanter Irving, who treats it as a given that the Magi boon has happened.  "I must thank you, however, for freeing the Circle from our shackles. That was most unexpected, indeed! You could have asked for anything." I answered, "I did what I thought was right," and he further commented: "Most would have asked for wealth, or power. Thank you. This is a gift we will not abuse."

Honestly, it reads like a recton to know that the boon was turned down (after reading Gaider's message about it) when the First Enchanter never addresses this as a possibility. In fact, the independent Circle of Orzammar is never even formed when this boon is asked for. If the Chantry said no as far as DA:O was concerned, why is there no independent Circle in Orzammar to reflect that nothing has changed?

Note: Only Anora can give the boon on the vanilla game. It's presently bugged and the flag isn't set if it's Alistair who asks what boon the Warden wants (which you can see because Irving will not acknowledge it as a result).

I did that in my first playthrough and I want to know can I transfer a save from PS3 to PC.

The actual conversation should though had been different.

Anora: Sup, what u want?
Me: Lets start with freeing the mages and building a statue for both wardens and common people who fought against the blight.


Edit: Except I answered to Alistair.

Modifié par moilami, 09 février 2011 - 06:41 .

[Ziggeh]

Last Vizard wrote...

Yes that is true, but when you factor in one oraganism being able to shoot lightening from his finger tips straight into the face of the other organism and perhaps at the crutch instead then what you end up with is one god like organism who can still reproduce.......

And you think social creatures follow the same evolutionary patterns as simple organisms? Human sexual relationships haven't revolved around destructive capacity since we were hunter gatherers.

[LobselVith8]

moilami wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Does anyone else find it odd that the Magi boon is turned down by the Chantry when there's little indication that it's going to be the case during the actual royal ceremony in DA:O? At the royal ceremony, there's no indication that the Magi boon will be turned down since the ruler of Ferelden decrees that the mages of Ferelden have earned the right to govern themselves:

Anora: "Is there any boon you might request of Ferelden's queen?"

Warden: "I ask that the Circle of Magi be given its independence."

Anora: "I doubt the Chantry will agree, but you have an excellent point. Let it be known that Ferelden's mages have earned the right to watch over themselves. The tower shall be restored and returned to the Circle."

She makes a proclamation at the end. Although the comment about the Chantry could imply otherwise, it leads to a conversation with First Enchanter Irving, who treats it as a given that the Magi boon has happened.  "I must thank you, however, for freeing the Circle from our shackles. That was most unexpected, indeed! You could have asked for anything." I answered, "I did what I thought was right," and he further commented: "Most would have asked for wealth, or power. Thank you. This is a gift we will not abuse."

Honestly, it reads like a recton to know that the boon was turned down (after reading Gaider's message about it) when the First Enchanter never addresses this as a possibility. In fact, the independent Circle of Orzammar is never even formed when this boon is asked for. If the Chantry said no as far as DA:O was concerned, why is there no independent Circle in Orzammar to reflect that nothing has changed?

Note: Only Anora can give the boon on the vanilla game. It's presently bugged and the flag isn't set if it's Alistair who asks what boon the Warden wants (which you can see because Irving will not acknowledge it as a result).

I did that in my first playthrough and I want to know can I transfer a save from PS3 to PC.

The actual conversation should though had been different.

Anora: Sup, what u want?
Me: Lets start with freeing the mages and building a statue for both wardens and common people who fought against the blight.


Edit: Except I answered to Alistair.

You can't import a save game from the PS3 onto the PC.

As for building statues in honor of the Wardens, you could probably do that as the new Arl of Amaranthine. The entire arling is under your control, after all.

However, if you asked Alistair for the boon, then the flag wasn't properly set for the Magi boon to be activated (it's the same bug as the elven Bann Boon, I believe); if the Warden asks Alistair to free the mages, the game doesn't recognize it because the flags are never set. It's supposed to show that Cullen goes insane and there's no longer an independent Circle in Orzammar. Basically, if Irving doesn't comment on the boon during the royal ceremony, then the save game doesn't acknowledge the Magi boon.

[Ziggeh]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Honestly, it reads like a recton to know that the boon was turned down (after reading Gaider's message about it) when the First Enchanter never addresses this as a possibility. In fact, the independent Circle of Orzammar is never even formed when this boon is asked for. If the Chantry said no as far as DA:O was concerned, why is there no independent Circle in Orzammar to reflect that nothing has changed?

News travels slow in a pre industrial society. I've only done the US, so I'm not sure in what tme frame all that happens, but the templars could have stood down while waiting for word from chantry HQ, so perhaps for a time they did have that freedom, but only for as long as it took for them to say no.

[LobselVith8]

Ziggeh wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Honestly, it reads like a recton to know that the boon was turned down (after reading Gaider's message about it) when the First Enchanter never addresses this as a possibility. In fact, the independent Circle of Orzammar is never even formed when this boon is asked for. If the Chantry said no as far as DA:O was concerned, why is there no independent Circle in Orzammar to reflect that nothing has changed?

News travels slow in a pre industrial society. I've only done the US, so I'm not sure in what tme frame all that happens, but the templars could have stood down while waiting for word from chantry HQ, so perhaps for a time they did have that freedom, but only for as long as it took for them to say no.

The Epilogues are never really clear on when they take place. I can understand the arguments for why the Chantry would say no, but I feel like DA:O didn't originally intend for the Chantry to have a say in the matter. Besides Irving's assessment of the boon, why isn't there an independent Circle in Orzammar if the devs originally planned for the Chantry to say no? The slide concerning Dagna clearly shows no Circle arising from her research if the Warden asks for the Circle to be given its independence.

[moilami]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Ziggeh wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Honestly, it reads like a recton to know that the boon was turned down (after reading Gaider's message about it) when the First Enchanter never addresses this as a possibility. In fact, the independent Circle of Orzammar is never even formed when this boon is asked for. If the Chantry said no as far as DA:O was concerned, why is there no independent Circle in Orzammar to reflect that nothing has changed?

News travels slow in a pre industrial society. I've only done the US, so I'm not sure in what tme frame all that happens, but the templars could have stood down while waiting for word from chantry HQ, so perhaps for a time they did have that freedom, but only for as long as it took for them to say no.

The Epilogues are never really clear on when they take place. I can understand the arguments for why the Chantry would say no, but I feel like DA:O didn't originally intend for the Chantry to have a say in the matter. Besides Irving's assessment of the boon, why isn't there an independent Circle in Orzammar if the devs originally planned for the Chantry to say no? The slide concerning Dagna clearly shows no Circle arising from her research if the Warden asks for the Circle to be given its independence.

Dwarves would become super power if they get free circle of magi. They like technology and research, and they control lyrium. I would move right away to Orzammar.


Edit: Orzammar Institute of Magic and Technology!

Modifié par moilami, 10 février 2011 - 01:23 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

LobselVith8 wrote...
I read what you write, but you fail to make any sense. You have no proof anyone from the Orlesian Empire asked for aid from the elves. It's never mentioned in the codex entries from either side, in fact. What we do know is that the Chantry of Andraste declared an Exalted March on them that resulted with the Dalish clans and the elves of the Alienages who are forbidden from worshipping the elven gods and have to worship the Maker.

I do belive that the Dalish not wanting to help the humans during the Blight was stated as one possible reason for the hostility.
Can't recall exactly in which Codex atm.

Again, no proof that goes either way. and given the danger posed by a Blight, it seems strange humans wouln't ask for help. It also seems strange the Dalish wouldn't asnwer.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...
If the Chantry leads an Exalted March against the Dales, why claim they have no power over the other nations they're demanding aid them against an enemy? Again, your condescending comments do little to support your views.

They're not "demanding" anything. They are calling. The Andrastian nations feel compelled to help, but how tehy help..well, that's their thing to dicide.

They're telling the other nations to come to their aid and follow them into battle in a holy war.

And?
"come help us" is very different from "kill all dalish"

Or do you simply assume that a religion defending itself is somehow any differetn from a cultiure or coutnry defending itself? It all comes down to the people indentifying with it and wanting to keep it.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

You really give the Chantry too much power and influence.
Are you forgeting that Ferleden, a small backwater country, nearly exiled the Chantry?

I notice you left out the reason why Loghain and Maric couldn't exile the Chantry of Andraste from Ferelden.

Different circumstance. Ferelden isn't belowed or very powerull. But if 2 or 3 nations were to defy the Chantry...do you realyl think the Cahtnry could force them into submission? With what army? It only has templars, and they are not enough to wage a large war.
The Chantry relies on the military of other Andrastian nations. And an internal struge is the last thing anyone wants. Politics is very much like poker...a lot of bluffing and calculating risks.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
IF it is the correct one. That is one big if.

Innocent until proven guilty is the basis of modern law system (and ironicly, you apply modern moral standards to the Cahtnry, but ignore this).
Neither you nor Ian can actually prove anything, yet are 100% convinced in the "crimes" of the Cahntry and parade your theories as truth.

Modern standards exist in DA:O. Just look at the treatment of women to recognize this.

Regarding the failings of the Chantry, I can see that templars are made addicts and mages have no rights. I contest what's being done based on what we know to be true. When templars can murder D'Sims because of their suspicions, when the templars can invoke the Rite of Tranquility without providing the evidence to the First Enchanter, when the system in place can be called oppressive in the actual game and is referred to as a prison in the VO, then I don't see why I can't contest what's being done.

For one you lack actual evidence. You cannot PROVE anything you say. You SUSPECT. You INFER.
You BELIEVE.

As I said. Innocent untill proven guilty. You did not prove that guilt.
All the arguments you and Ian made here are not solid. They wouldn't fly in any court in the world.
You say "what we KNOW to be true". And that is incorrect. You don't know it to be true. you belive it to be true.
If it was a known fact, then there would be no debate possible here.

So, using the same modern standards, the Cahntry cannot be proclaimed evil criminals wihout aditional proof. Solid proof.

Erm...Asking for proof is redicolous question?.PROOF?

No, you veered into asking questions that had little to do with the actual argument because you consistently take the Chantry's side. You make accusations without proof but then ask for evidence whenever anyone makes a comment against the Chantry or the Order of Templars that we clearly learn about or see in the actual game or novels. You're pro-Chantry, you have for over a year now, which is fine except for the fact that you seem to love attacking people who disagree with you.

The only one constantly vering off-topic and not providing any proof is you.

I don't make accusations against the mages or dalish. I simply poke hols in your arguments. Since I'm not trying to prove that the Chantry is undeniably right, I'm showing that your theory that is it undeinably wrong is incorrect.
And since you have no actual proof, all I need to do is provide alternate explanations for some of the facts. The ver existance of those alternate explanations undermines your claims.

It is YOU how throw accusations and theories around as hard facts. It is you who try to prove to anyone just how eeeebil the Chatnry is and how wrong it is.

Get it into your thick skull. I'm not pro-Chantry. I'm anti- YOU.
But since you contantly take an anti-Chantry side you will find me arguing agasint you.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Spaghetti_Ninja wrote...
What is clear is that the Tevinter civilization was overrun by barbarians, and those barbarians seized power themselves, invented their own crazy religion based around the wife of their leader, and then proceeded to shackle the mages. An improvement over the mages enslaving the barbarians? A matter of perspective.

Erm..the Maker isn't "new".
It was an old religion that was revived.

So those "barbarians" didn't invent anything. Belief in the Maker is older than belief in the Old Gods apparently.

[Lotion Soronarr]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Getting some pathos? I'm pointing out how you're pro-Chantry but making condescending comments because people take an opposing view. You and Lotion clearly take the pro-Chantry stand every time, so I don't see the need for condescending remarks simply because others take an opposing view.

Ever wondered WHY we argue against you in these threads?

By "we" you mean Emperor and yourself? Emperor, the same person who said freeing mages would be theft of Chantry "property" you mean? Or are we going to discuss how you once claimed abominations were handing out quests for the Mages Collective in one of your pro-Chantry arguments?

Quoting people out of context is a very pitifull strategy.
You know very well that NOT what either of us meant...But hey, that would require some actual though to be put into this.

You mean you lie and make accusations that aren't true or call people stupid while Ian and others make valid arguments to contest what you say? Even Sir JK can make the argument for the Chantry without resorting to trolling or flaming people.

I do not lie. And I do not make unfounded accusations. Simple as that.
Not to mention that all my arguments are valid..which is more than  Icna say for yours.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
If I were to run into you into another thread and you were saying things like "The Dalish are bloodthirsty murdereds that were sticking humans on the poles!" or "The Chantry is the greatest thing EVAR!" I'd be calling you out on that too. But you don't.

As I told you before..I don't adore the Chantry...I just don't like your posts and the broken logic you use.

You do adore the Chantry, you've made that clear on multiple threads for over a year now. I don't see why you keep denying it.

Becasue it's not true.
You just think it is becasue it fits with your limited worldview.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
If you had any capacity for sound reasoning and if you ever bothered to read, you might notice I never sides against the dalish or mages.

I side against YOU, not FOR Chantry.
I'm not taking any strong position on the subject, just poking holes in your position...but you are incapalbe and unwilling of seeing the difference.

You mean by calling me stupid, you're poking holes in my arguments? Or when you claimed that I called you a Chantry fanboy but never backed up any links to support it, and then admitted you lied about it? You clearly side with the Chantry all the time. I don't see why you keep denying it when anyone can see it's not true.

So you mean you're not calling me pro-chantry and Chantry apologist?
Then what is it you are exactly doing right now?
Oh yes. Living in your own little world as always.

My "good" man, anyone is free to read these threads...And anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together can also clearly see I don't hold a strong position.

LobselVith8 wrote...
Coming from the guy who calls people names and has failed to back up his arguments with any lore, codex entries, or story examples...

Oh? I had plenty of codex and lore examples. Not that you would register any of it trough your tinted glasses.

You're welcome to your opinion, Lotion, but not to personally attack people for taking an opposing view. Sir JK supports the Chantry, and I honestly don't care; she's welcome to her opinion. I don't attack her for it like you do everyone who disagrees with the Chantry and the templars.

Just you Lob...Just you.
And not because of your view...but because of your broken reasoning.

[Biotic Budah]

There was a restaurant in my home town called the Chantry. They served really good fried chicken.

[kane442]

i hate any thing which rates people as lesser or not trustworthy baised on birth and so will any thing i am playing in a rpg

[The Big Nothing]

Love it. It is a great concept for the story.

[Lotion Soronarr]

kane442 wrote...

i hate any thing which rates people as lesser or not trustworthy baised on birth and so will any thing i am playing in a rpg

In the Real World that would be true..to an extent.


Frist, not all men are equal. They are, but they are not..not really. To treat everyone the same is illogical and impossible.
There is no real paralel to mages in RL to boot.

Secondly, freedom is never absolute. We all have differetn degrees of freedom, but it is always limited.

We have the things we call "inalianable human rights". Well yeah...those are a human construct. They only exist if we agree they do.
Not to mention that government can and do take away certain rights if they deem it necessary. Often time it's not, but sometimes it may be.


Given everyhing, mages in DA2 being locked in towers is rational, and it is what the world governmetns of our modelrn, civilized words would probably do if mages suddenly started appearing in RL.

This remains a grey area, for as horrible it seems to lock up mages, it would also be irresponsible and immoral to just let them go free.
It's a no-win situation.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 10 février 2011 - 09:27 .

[The Big Nothing]

kane442 wrote...

i hate any thing which rates people as lesser or not trustworthy baised on birth and so will any thing i am playing in a rpg

The Chantry doesn't rate mages as "lesser", it considers them dangerous, and rightfully so. If some people on Earth were born with the ability to morph in to murderous demons and control your mind, you would want them locked away as well.
And see, this is the problem with people and religion. It's fine to hate something, but at least know what you are hating, and why. A lot of people today are "atheist" because it's trendy, which is no better than adhering to religious dogma. We all need to question our own belief system, even if it seems correct.
The need for affiliation outweighs the need for self-actualization, which is a sad, sad fact.

Modifié par The Big Nothing, 10 février 2011 - 09:33 .

[Biotic Budah]

The Big Nothing wrote...

kane442 wrote...

i hate any thing which rates people as lesser or not trustworthy baised on birth and so will any thing i am playing in a rpg

The Chantry doesn't rate mages as "lesser", it considers them dangerous, and rightfully so. If some people on Earth were born with the ability to morph in to murderous demons and control your mind, you would want them locked away as well.
And see, this is the problem with people and religion. It's fine to hate something, but at least know what you are hating, and why. A lot of people today are "atheist" because it's trendy, which is no better than adhering to religious dogma. We all need to question our own belief system, even if it seems correct.
The need for affiliation outweighs the need for self-actualization, which is a sad, sad fact.

So the Chantry is basically the Gun Control of Thedas? Lemme Guess, Anders is the head of the MRA? (Mage Revolutionist Association)

[kane442]

the way i see it is most mage turn to the magics that make them truely dangerous/evil in order the get away from the templars....after all the dalish have mages (and yes i know the magic is different ) and there not going around blowing people up...i agree with the harrowing...just not keeping um locked up after that

[The Big Nothing]

kane442 wrote...

the way i see it is most mage turn to the magics that make them truely dangerous/evil in order the get away from the templars....after all the dalish have mages (and yes i know the magic is different ) and there not going around blowing people up...i agree with the harrowing...just not keeping um locked up after that

It's a bi-directionality problem. Does the Chantry hunt mages because they turn to blood magic, or do mages turn to blood magic because the Chantry hunts them? Does it matter? Each has its reason for its view of the other.

[kane442]

The Big Nothing wrote...

kane442 wrote...

the way i see it is most mage turn to the magics that make them truely dangerous/evil in order the get away from the templars....after all the dalish have mages (and yes i know the magic is different ) and there not going around blowing people up...i agree with the harrowing...just not keeping um locked up after that

It's a bi-directionality problem. Does the Chantry hunt mages because they turn to blood magic, or do mages turn to blood magic because the Chantry hunts them? Does it matter? Each has its reason for its view of the other.

yes i realize that just pointing out the way i and my most of my characters look at it ..not saying people who like them are wrong just my point of view

[Lotion Soronarr]

kane442 wrote...

the way i see it is most mage turn to the magics that make them truely dangerous/evil in order the get away from the templars....after all the dalish have mages (and yes i know the magic is different ) and there not going around blowing people up...i agree with the harrowing...just not keeping um locked up after that

A horrible curse that lasted for centuries and destroyed the lives of lord-knows how many people is hardly nothing. And that's all from just 1..ONE mage.

[kane442]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

kane442 wrote...

the way i see it is most mage turn to the magics that make them truely dangerous/evil in order the get away from the templars....after all the dalish have mages (and yes i know the magic is different ) and there not going around blowing people up...i agree with the harrowing...just not keeping um locked up after that

A horrible curse that lasted for centuries and destroyed the lives of lord-knows how many people is hardly nothing. And that's all from just 1..ONE mage.

im guessing your talking about the lycans but that 1 time thats like say all humans could be hitler...that is just fearmongering...anyways that is now off topic the post asked if anyone liked um ...my anwser is no

Modifié par kane442, 10 février 2011 - 09:52 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

kane442 wrote...

A horrible curse that lasted for centuries and destroyed the lives of lord-knows how many people is hardly nothing. And that's all from just 1..ONE mage.

im guessing your talking about the lycans but that 1 time thats like say all humans could be hitler...that is just fearmongering...anyways that is now off topic the post asked if anyone liked um ...my anwser is no

Hitler, in order to do anything, needs others. He's dependant on others.
Not to mention, a human isn't by default biologicly wired to turn into Hitler. But really...Godwins Law is now in effect...

Regarless, comparing mages to Hitler is both innacurate and innapropriate.

[kane442]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

kane442 wrote...

A horrible curse that lasted for centuries and destroyed the lives of lord-knows how many people is hardly nothing. And that's all from just 1..ONE mage.

im guessing your talking about the lycans but that 1 time thats like say all humans could be hitler...that is just fearmongering...anyways that is now off topic the post asked if anyone liked um ...my anwser is no

Hitler, in order to do anything, needs others. He's dependant on others.
Not to mention, a human isn't by default biologicly wired to turn into Hitler. But really...Godwins Law is now in effect...

Regarless, comparing mages to Hitler is both innacurate and innapropriate.

ha yea i did pull a godwins ...that kinnda make me sad inside......you could replace hitler with any murderer or evil person and the point still stand you shouldnt condem the many for the crimes of the few

[earl of the north]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

A horrible curse that lasted for centuries and destroyed the lives of lord-knows how many people is hardly nothing. And that's all from just 1..ONE mage.

Personally I think that's a good point, the Dalish system seems to depend on the Keepers self-policing themselves as the leaders and lorekeepers of the tribe and Zathrian totally abuses that trust by causing a truly horrible curse that kills innocents (humans and elves) for centuries and is directly responsible for those deaths and the danger to both his and the other Dalish clans.

The Andrastian nations count on the Chantry to control mages.....if that control is removed, why would anyone think that the mages would suddenly be granted total freedom.  If i'm the local Arl (putting on my noble origins hat for the moment) in that situation, I'm rounding up every mage I can get my hands on and every ex-templar I can recruit to train up my own version of the circle before my neighbours have the same idea.......if I cannot, I'm going to make sure no mages can threaten my people or my position with my local population cheering me on.
(Removes noble hat and puts on Mage origin hat )

As a mage do I support the Chantry, do I give up a "safe" life where as long as I'm strong enough to survive the harrowing and don't delve into the forbidden arts I can live securely in a guilded cage or do I throw off my shackes and force the population of Thedas to bow to my will?

Thats one of the reasons I'm looking forward to DA2, seeing how the mage/chantry confict develops.....assuming there is going to be a mage/chantry conflict.

Currently I'm playing a pro-Chantry GW Blood Mage who would be looking at supporting reform of the circle system rather than seeing it destroyed....her response to a mage rebellion would be to conscript every mage she can, in effect recreating the circle in Amaranthine......bolstering the power of the GW, protecting the mages from retribution and re-establishing the necessary controls (as she sees them) over mages........and the extra funds the tranquils can bring in enchanting will be good as well.

Modifié par earl of the north, 10 février 2011 - 10:47 .

[Augustei]

Anyone remember that strange weirdo mage in the tower that said stuff like "The Templars are the silver sword of mercy" and stuff and she wanted them to come and kill her because "Magic is a curse"

are all people of the Loyalist Fraternity like that I wonder? Shes the only member I seem to recall ever seeing so maybe its jumping the gun a bit there, I doubt they are really all like that... But I wonder if theres more that are.. If so, I cant see the Chantry getting any help out of the loyalists if they start to loose control of the circle in DA2. They would probably just stand there rambling on about "Oh noo... Our Bretheren are baaad.. We should all join togeather and end the worlds suffering." and commit a mass suicide or something.. Seems likely. Lol =P