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[Cutlass Jack]

My Human noble rogue paid lip service to the chantry. He grew up with a chapel in his house and got along well enough with the mother who ran it. But he's not what I'd call overly religious.

My City Elf Warrior Bride took her relationship to the maker more seriously. The Chantry performed her wedding and were one of the few who treated her like a 'human being' during her origin. Both Andraste and her mother showed her about standing up for herself and taking no crap from anyone.

My female Mage had her life ruled by the Chantry so had less reason to like them. But clearly, based on her interactions with Cullen and Alistair, had something of a thing for men in Templar skirts.


My Dalish and Dwarf Noble playthroughs largely mocked the chantry and the maker.

[sonsonthebia07]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

elearon1 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Irkalla wrote...
i hate all organized religion, I don't need any other reason to hate it.

I hate all religion-haters. I  don't need no other reason to hate them.<_<

I hate all haters, and I hate all reasons to hate them, and not; contrariwise. 

I hate hate! And I hate not hating!


EDIt:
Intersintlgy enough, I really don't get it why some people are so hating the "spreading the word" part of the Cahtnry ( and religionin general).
Spreading (what we think is) the turth is what we ALL do. Athesists and people of all religions.

I agree, but it's more how it is spread than anything. If a people do not want to "learn the way", then well enough should be left alone. If it isn't, it leads to aggression or even war. It was the cause of the fall of the Dales and also essentially of the Exalted Marches on the Tevinter Imperium (although they were performing very sinister rituals using slaves' live energy to fuel their blood magic) so I think I can see more reason for that). I'm not too big on the lore in the game to be honest. I'm just going by what I think I remember, so don't hate on me too much.

Basically, "we don't understand these people, so we'll just kill them all in the Maker's name and all will be sugar and rainbows".

[Elhanan]

My first Warden became a believer after seeing the Ashes save Eamon. But as for myself, I am rather biased against them.

However, if I were to choose which path to follow, I would most likely be closest to the ideals of Liliana, and serve the Maker alone; away from the oversight of the Chantry.

[drahelvete]

I find the other religions of the DA universe a lot more interesting than the Andrastian faith, but I don't hate the Chantry. I dislike the jealous exclusiveness of most monotheistic religions, but hate is a very strong word. My RL biases shouldn't (and don't) matter in-game.

[LobselVith8]

sonsonthebia07 wrote...

I need proof, as well as facts. We got the sacred ashes, and they actually had healing powers - but in a game world that has all sorts of magic, who's to say what really happened?

Oghren mentions there's a large wall of lyrium affecting the entire temple as an alternative explanation.

sonsonthebia07 wrote...

But the reason I don't like the chantry isn't their belief itself but the people behind it. These would be people that blindly follow whatever path they are set on, as well as come up with reason after reason to "spread the Maker's influence", without ever even questioning it. These would be the self-righteous zealots that think they are in some way above myself because they believe in something they have no proof even exists.

The Dalish are an example of that. According to their codex entry and claims, templars were sent into the Dales when they kicked out the Chantry's missionaries.

sonsonthebia07 wrote...

They also imprison mages. I understand that they believe that they are doing this with good reason, and I can even understand why - untrained mages are a constant threat to society - but there are good and bad apples in every bunch. I cannot condone locking away people simply because of a talent they were born (or perhaps cursed) with.

According to the latest blog:

"Some are saying, however, that this needs to change. They remind the world that mages are not controlled by templars everywhere in Thedas: not among the Rivaini witches, the Dalish keepers or the Tevinter magisters… and those societies are, arguably, no worse off."

[Flashflame58]

That depends on my warden's origin. My mage did not care for the Chantry much at all, but my human noble and city elf were incredibly pious.



Myself? Can't say I agree with every decision the Chantry has made, the Exalted March on the Dales, their treatment of mages and templars alike; but should the followers of the Chantry at least be grateful that they are not living under the Qun, where mages are not only wished dead, but also have ZERO choices and liberties as people?

[NRO TYN]

Just wanted to throw this out there that theres two Chantrie's.....So yea =)

[emile_the_devil]

Cutlass Jack wrote...
My City Elf Warrior Bride took her relationship to the maker more seriously. The Chantry performed her wedding and were one of the few who treated her like a 'human being' during her origin. Both Andraste and her mother showed her about standing up for herself and taking no crap from anyone.

Same, and my Dwarven Commoner didn't care much about the Chantry either way.

[Xewaka]

LobselVith8 wrote...
According to the latest blog:
"Some are saying, however, that this needs to change. They remind the world that mages are not controlled by templars everywhere in Thedas: not among the Rivaini witches, the Dalish keepers or the Tevinter magisters… and those societies are, arguably, no worse off."

Shouldn't the fact that the nations and peoples that don't keep magic in check are ruled by blood magi tell us something?

Modifié par Xewaka, 01 février 2011 - 02:06 .

[Nethalf]

Most of my wardens are truly andrastians. But they're andrastians in da Leliana's version

[Voidlight]

The Chantry may do good deeds, but that doesn't cancel out the bad things they've done. Good & bad deeds are not some exchangeable moral currency; a murderer who helps fight poverty is still a murderer.

[LobselVith8]

Korva wrote...

I like the Chantry -- and I'm very much an atheist. I just don't see a reason to bring that part of me into my characters when there is an interesting faith in a setting. Plus, most of the Chantry people in Origins were actually quite pleasant IMO or at least "neutral". Ser Otto in Denerim is a particular favourite of mine, it was a nasty surprise when he died, even more that I couldn't even take his body out and bury him. The only Chantry-affiliated characters I remember loathing were the Templar doing ferry duty to the Circle Tower and Cullen.

You mean Carroll? He was a lyrium addict. That's why he was so odd. Regarding the Chantry, I don't think they're evil, but I disagree with a lot of what they do - making the worship of the elven gods illegal and imprisoning all the mages because of a nonviolent protest they held centuries ago (History of the Circle codex). That being said, I liked Ser Otto.

Korva wrote...

When it comes to mages, it's clear that something must be done about the demon posession risk and blood magic. The solution we have is far from ideal, but IMO it's realistic -- meaning, there is no good solution, especially in a wannabe-gritty world. And it could be worse. It always amuses me how "cool" many people apparently find the qunari, who treat mages ten times worse and seem to allow very little freedom or choice. But we play in a Chantry-dominated country, so the Chantry gets all the hate. I bet if we played in a qunari-dominated country, people would hate on them instead. *shrug*

Realistic, true, but hardly necessary. Rivain and the Dalish don't imprison their mages. The only reason mages are imprisoned is because mages staged a protest in a cathedral centuries ago, and the templars talked Divine Ambrosia II out of declaring an Exalted March on her own church.

Korva wrote...

The treatment of the elves is another problem. but I too lay the blame for that at least as much on the shoulders of humanity in general. People just love having someone to ****** and spit on, just look at the real world. And Andraste, at least, had an elven general and gave the elves a home. So a Chantry person with sympathy for the elves could argue that those who destroyed that home went against the Prophet's will.

Except the Chantry declared an Exalted March against them in a war that's reputed to have been started because they sent in templars to force the issue of conversion, and when they won, they made it illegal to worship the elven gods in the Alienages.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Intersintlgy enough, I really don't get it why some people are so hating the "spreading the word" part of the Cahtnry ( and religionin general).
Spreading (what we think is) the turth is what we ALL do. Athesists and people of all religions.

Well, if we trust the Dalish codex entry and the Dalish POV, then the Chantry sent in templars to the Dales when the Dalish refused to convert and kicked out their missionaries. Considering how it ended up with a war and then making it illegal to worship their gods, some see it as a serious problem.

According to The Dalish Warden Codex Entry: The Dales:

"We could once again forget the incessant passage of time. Our people began the slow process of recovering the culture and traditions we had lost to slavery. But it was not to last. The Chantry first sent missionaries into the Dales, and then, when those were thrown out, templars. We were driven from Halamshiral, scattered."

[steelfire_dragon]

The Chant of Light is a LIE!!!



repent now and denouce the chantry.



burn the women at the stake and no mercy for them.



the unlawful slavery committed by the chantry and the abuse done to other races must be delt with.



Burn the priest of the chantry



loot the chantry and then burn the building down to the ground.



and they say



The MAker MAde Me DO it! PRaise the MAker

[Knal1991]

The power they have because they represent a may or may not be god....



It's quite impossible for me to not include my viewings outside the game... because it's similiar...



Also I hate religions being forced upon people...

(It's a bit different with the Qun but I don't care to explain that >_> )

[LobselVith8]

Xewaka wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...
According to the latest blog:
"Some are saying, however, that this needs to change. They remind the world that mages are not controlled by templars everywhere in Thedas: not among the Rivaini witches, the Dalish keepers or the Tevinter magisters… and those societies are, arguably, no worse off."

Shouldn't the fact that the nations and peoples that don't keep magic in check are ruled by magi tell us something?

The nation of Rivain and the Dalish clans aren't ruled by blood mages. Neither was the nation of the Dales or ancient civilization of Arlathan.

[Augustei]

People are mentioning the dales exalted march.. But that wasn't called into effect until the dales had conquered pretty much all of Orlais between the dales and were marching on Val Royeux's doorstep. They also slaughtered many priests and decimated the chantry's.. It was really a war between Orlais and The Dales originally.
What I just said however, is also debatable as simply Chantry Propeganda.. Due to lack of evidence The March on the dales cannot be justified.. But for that same reason, It cannot really be condemned either. I mean there are sources provding reasoning for both sides of the argument.

The forbidding the elves from worshipping their pagan gods however, Is a different story. I dont think there is any Justification for that at all

Modifié par XxDeonxX, 01 février 2011 - 02:17 .

[Augustei]

II That Burn In Ya Ass II wrote...

Just wanted to throw this out there that theres two Chantrie's.....So yea =)

yeah.. The Chantry and the Imperial Chantry. If I was referring to the Imperial Chantry though, I would have adressed it as such =P

[LobselVith8]

XxDeonxX wrote...

People are mentioning the dales exalted march.. But that wasn't called into effect until the dales had conquered pretty much all of Orlais between the dales and were marching on Val Royeux's doorstep. They also slaughtered many priests and decimated the chantry's.. It was really a war between Orlais and The Dales originally.
What I just said however, is also debatable as simply Chantry Propeganda.. Due to lack of evidence The March on the dales cannot be justified.. But for that same reason, It cannot really be condemned either. I mean there are sources provding reasoning for both sides of the argument.

Orlais and the Chantry have a symbiotic relationship with one another. The Chantry supported the invasion of Ferelden, after all. According to the Dalish Warden's Dalish codex entry:

"We could once again forget the incessant passage of time. Our people began the slow process of recovering the culture and traditions we had lost to slavery. But it was not to last. The Chantry first sent missionaries into the Dales, and then, when those were thrown out, templars. We were driven from Halamshiral, scattered."

That seems to indicate that it wasn't simply an issue between the Dales and Orlais.

[Augustei]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Xewaka wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...
According to the latest blog:
"Some are saying, however, that this needs to change. They remind the world that mages are not controlled by templars everywhere in Thedas: not among the Rivaini witches, the Dalish keepers or the Tevinter magisters… and those societies are, arguably, no worse off."

Shouldn't the fact that the nations and peoples that don't keep magic in check are ruled by magi tell us something?

The nation of Rivain and the Dalish clans aren't ruled by blood mages. Neither was the nation of the Dales or ancient civilization of Arlathan.

He's right that the dalish clans are ruled by mages, Every Keeper is taught magic and is essentially a mage.. Keeper is also a mage specialisation. And since the concept of the keeper derives from The Dales and Arlathan no doubt.. They were also ruled by mages. Dont think Rivain is though

[Augustei]

LobselVith8 wrote...

XxDeonxX wrote...

People are mentioning the dales exalted march.. But that wasn't called into effect until the dales had conquered pretty much all of Orlais between the dales and were marching on Val Royeux's doorstep. They also slaughtered many priests and decimated the chantry's.. It was really a war between Orlais and The Dales originally.
What I just said however, is also debatable as simply Chantry Propeganda.. Due to lack of evidence The March on the dales cannot be justified.. But for that same reason, It cannot really be condemned either. I mean there are sources provding reasoning for both sides of the argument.

Orlais and the Chantry have a symbiotic relationship with one another. The Chantry supported the invasion of Ferelden, after all. According to the Dalish Warden's Dalish codex entry:

"We could once again forget the incessant passage of time. Our people began the slow process of recovering the culture and traditions we had lost to slavery. But it was not to last. The Chantry first sent missionaries into the Dales, and then, when those were thrown out, templars. We were driven from Halamshiral, scattered."

That seems to indicate that it wasn't simply an issue between the Dales and Orlais.

Its also a bias viewpoint however, Just like everything the chantry says regarding the incident.  Neither side can say they were the victim and the other side were in the wrong. Neither of them have sufficient evidence and by exstention. neither do we

Modifié par XxDeonxX, 01 février 2011 - 02:22 .

[Xewaka]

LobselVith8 wrote...
The nation of Rivain and the Dalish clans aren't ruled by blood mages. Neither was the nation of the Dales or ancient civilization of Arlathan.

The setting so far has dropped hints that Keepers do practice Blood Magic. Wise women of Rivain allow themselves to be possessed. And, in a nation which has medicine women, such women are the rulers in fact if not in name.

[NKKKK]

XxDeonxX wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Xewaka wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...
According to the latest blog:
"Some are saying, however, that this needs to change. They remind the world that mages are not controlled by templars everywhere in Thedas: not among the Rivaini witches, the Dalish keepers or the Tevinter magisters… and those societies are, arguably, no worse off."

Shouldn't the fact that the nations and peoples that don't keep magic in check are ruled by magi tell us something?

The nation of Rivain and the Dalish clans aren't ruled by blood mages. Neither was the nation of the Dales or ancient civilization of Arlathan.

He's right that the dalish clans are ruled by mages, Every Keeper is taught magic and is essentially a mage.. Keeper is also a mage specialisation. And since the concept of the keeper derives from The Dales and Arlathan no doubt.. They were also ruled by mages. Dont think Rivain is though

But not  blood mages. They also don't run rampant with Abominations.

[NRO TYN]

XxDeonxX wrote...

II That Burn In Ya Ass II wrote...

Just wanted to throw this out there that theres two Chantrie's.....So yea =)

yeah.. The Chantry and the Imperial Chantry. If I was referring to the Imperial Chantry though, I would have adressed it as such =P

Me:"Facepalm"........FACEPALM AGAIN

[Iberius]

Voidlight wrote...

The Chantry may do good deeds, but that doesn't cancel out the bad things they've done. Good & bad deeds are not some exchangeable moral currency; a murderer who helps fight poverty is still a murderer.

No, your right and they have to account for those things or at least learn from them. But that makes it up to you as to what is more important. What they have done? What they are doing? and/or What they will they do?

If they continue on in a positive way then (turned over a new leaf) then I should think that their continued good deeds should be allowed/commended.

In terms of the mages, it comes mainly down to your perspective imo. Maybe the chantry should let up or maybe they know more about the mages than they let on and hold them despite being seen as the "bad guy".
 
Has anyone ever thought that the chantry in a sense could be doing something rather noble without our knowledge? I tend to doubt this but it is another possibility.

[Trintrin86]

I'm not religious. I like the function of the Chantry. It seems to be generally good and well intentioned. It has it's corrupt elements and the treatment of mages to make it a little morally ambiguous, and I really enjoy the fact that there is just enough "evidence" on both sides of the maker exists/doesn't exist argument to make it really interesting.



Whether or not my *character* likes the Chantry is totally a function of how I want to play that character. For example, my mage was actually rather devout, she's felt the temptation of a demon and felt it was her faith in the Maker that kept her strong. My agnostic CE came to the Maker after the ashes healed Arl Eamon. My HN couldn't care less and my DN thought that the whole notion was ridiculous and worthy of contempt.



Count me in as someone who thinks it's silly to unilaterally dismiss a fictional religion in a fantasy setting as "bad" because a player has a real life dislike of real religions.