1019 réponses à ce sujet

[Lotion Soronarr]

IanPolaris wrote...

Angry masses generated by the Chantry's hate-filled anti-mage propoganda!

I don't see that institutionalized propaganda.
Nowhere in the game do I find any proof to support your claims.

Yes you do. You have to, because oy udemand the same from me.

You claim - we seen no proof of templar overight - therefore no templar overight exist.
I coutner - we seen no proof of X (in the exmaple abominations in Rivain) - therefore X doesn't exist.

Apples and Oranges.  In the case of Rivain, not only do we not see any evidence for abominatikons in Rivain, but we also fail to see the impact that said abominations should have had in such a society.  The same applies to the Dalish, Chansind, and many others.  In short, we can determine how common or rare (or in this case virtually nonexistance) a phenomena is by the impact on those systems we do see.  Such things are done all the time in science.  For example, it is physically impossible to detect a quark, but we can using meson steam analysis, get very good data on how quarks actually behave in physics.

Loads and loads of BS.

I already debunked your "social footprint" theory. I ask for proof, you've got none.

So no, not apples and oranges.
You can determine nothing. You know nothing. Plenty of epopel on these ofrusm proved that much.

 But lack of any evidence can hardly stop your crusade....

[Lotion Soronarr]

IanPolaris wrote...
What *I* was pointing out that Lotion doesn't agree with anything I say regardless of how obviously correct it is and that has nothing to do with what you posted unless you are tying to say that nothing I post here is correct?

Is that it?  I am tired of your games.

Say something that IS correct and I will agree with you...or I jsut won't bother to respond to that part of the post because I've got nothing to add to it (something I actually did 2-3 times during this debate)

But to coutner that, you wouldn't agree with me, regardless of how obviously correct it is.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Another thing that has occured to me.

Village of Hannoleth. Kitty.
She can posses Amalia wihout her consent.

Isn't that proof of forced possesion?

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 15 février 2011 - 01:57 .

[Curlain]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Another thing that has occured to me.

Village of Hannoleth. Kitty.
She can posses Amalia wihout her consent.

Isn't that proof of forced possesion?

Not entirely true, if you slove the puzzle but lied about really freeing Kitty Amalia says something along the lines of, 'you're scaring me, I'm not going to let you in anymore' which suggests some form of consent was needed

[EmperorSahlertz]

She also says that if you let Kitty possess her IIRC.

[KenKenpachi]

As much as I like the Idea of Darth Vader running lose and killing me with the power of his mind for being as clumsy as I am stupid I'll go with the Chantry most likely. I played as a Warrior and a Mage and honestly the power I had as a mage was corrupting often I would laugh to my self and spam AOE magics and laugh as the fools died and burned around me. Its kinda like selling tanks on the street corner oh yes several of us would love it, more so if we could fuse all that power to ourselves. But can we any of us say we would not be corrupted by it?

Heck if I could cast lightning from my finger tips I'ld be shocking people with it for any reasson and cackeling like Emp. Palp's Maybe shout POWER UNLIMITED POWER! At least I'm being honest here. Its like any great power, who doesn't have it wants it. Not that I overly care for the Chantry but if we must have human tanks that can lay waste to whole armies with such small numbers I'ld want some kill switch. Now I may side with the Mages if the Chantry is doing a greater evil to them, for instance a Lesh for all mages type deal Sten so liked to talk about with my mage..

So depends I see mages as weapons first people later. Useful but like all weapons you need some ability to control and to use. Course it ammounts to imprisonment to some extent, but I don't see flamethrowers for sale when I go into Home Depot, or Anti-Tank rifles at the gun show. Which is basically what mages are. Course I am WHOLLY against them being made tranquil.

Modifié par KenKenpachi, 15 février 2011 - 02:38 .

[lady_v23]

I actually do like the chantry. yes they may be ignorant and rude and..well you get the point..but they do the necessary evil, and that evil is locking up the mages, and people don't like that. If the mages where to be set free there would be a LOT of problems. ill just mention some since im way to lazy:



1-a lot more of demons possession.

2-there would be a whole lot more of abominations running around

3-where would they learn magic? from other mages? what if those mages used blood magic?



I know that they are good strong mages that can control there powers, but what guarantees that the mage wont get involve in crimes to get some coins or abuse his/hers powers or get tempted by a strong demon? better be save than sorry. Hate them or loath them the chantry does the necessary evil.



ok..!! im done with the rant!! ^^ you'll be surprise what boredom makes you do

[Lotion Soronarr]

Curlain wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Another thing that has occured to me.

Village of Hannoleth. Kitty.
She can posses Amalia wihout her consent.

Isn't that proof of forced possesion?

Not entirely true, if you slove the puzzle but lied about really freeing Kitty Amalia says something along the lines of, 'you're scaring me, I'm not going to let you in anymore' which suggests some form of consent was needed

But if you try to attack, Amalia is scared of kitty and backes off, trying to run, and Kitty still poseses her.
That doesn't sound like consent.

[Soul Cool]

XxDeonxX wrote...
But what im asking is, Why so much hate for the chantry?

Because what it does is anathema to my existence.
I love the irony of that statement.

XxDeonxX wrote...
And is there anyone here that likes the Chantry?

I am not sure. I do not.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Interesting tidbit for DA Legends info:

13 years have passed since a group of warriors led by the Templar Ravi
banded together to prevent an abomination from destroying the Free
Marcher city of Kaiten in a hedonistic orgy of narcissism and opulence.

So much about abominations not being really that dangerous, no more dangerouns than a single berserker and not being able to destroy anythig more than a small  undefended village.

[LobselVith8]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Humans ARE the master of Thedas though. They are by far the greatest current power in Thedas. In a few generations, the Masters of Thedas may be the Qunari though.

That would be like a writer stating that Caucasians are the masters of the United States... so I don't see how you can claim it's not biased.

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Many of the Chantry Scholars, Genitivi in particular, are not half as biased as that particular Dalish entry. The Chantry scholars at least speculate on the true events, even going as far as to admiting that the Chantry probably spread false rumors about the Dalish. I am not saying the Dalish entry should be disregarded completely, but to use it as proof is foolish. It would be the equivalent of using some old Nordic saga as proof of some event. The Dalish entry simply not detailed enough, nor objective enough, to get any sort of accurate historical record out of it.

The History of the Circle is particularly biased in its favor of the Chantry and the templars, treating mages as little more than children. The Chantry version of the codex Sister Petrine claims that the Dalish were sacrificing humans and attacked a defenseless village of Red Crossing, placing all the blame on the Dalish. Considering how many nations Orlais has taken over, there's reason to suspect that this isn't an accurate depiction of events. Even outside of the codex entries, we have Keli, a devout Andrastian who thinks that mages are cursed for having magical ability. Knight-Commander Greagoir even refers to magic as a curse in the opening of the Magi Origin. We have Lily, an Initiate, who talks about how the Initiates are taught about the dangers those "cursed with magic pose."

The Dales codex is also written from the POV of the Dalish for a Dalish Warden, and addresses the history as seen through their eyes:

"You will hear tales of the woman Andraste. The shemlen name her prophet, bride of their Maker. But we knew her as a war leader, one who, like us, had been a slave and dreamed of liberation. We joined her rebellion against the Imperium, and our heroes died beside her, unmourned, in Tevinter bonfires.

But we stayed with our so-called allies until the war ended. Our reward: A land in southern Orlais called the Dales. So we began the Long Walk to our new home.

Halamshiral, "the end of the journey," was our capital, built out of the reach of the humans. We could once again forget the incessant passage of time. Our people began the slow process of recovering the culture and traditions we had lost to slavery.

But it was not to last. The Chantry first sent missionaries into the Dales, and then, when those were thrown out, templars. We were driven from Halamshiral, scattered. Some took refuge in the cities of the shemlen, living in squalor, tolerated only a little better than vermin.

We took a different path. We took to the wilderness, never stopping long enough to draw the notice of our shemlen neighbors. In our self-imposed exile, we kept what remained of elven knowledge and culture alive."

Dalish Warden Codex: The Dales: "The End of the Long Walk," as told by Gisharel, the Keeper of the Ralaferin clan of the Dalish elves

[LobselVith8]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

We're talking about the people who have taken the position of Emperor or Empress of Orlais here, who have used different tactics to achieve the same end. You seem eager to dismiss the canon in favor of your own ideals about Orlais and the Chantry, but I don't. If we examine their history and see that multiple leaders of the empire have occupied other nations throughout its long history, I don't see why it should be dismissed when they are repeating such actions in present day Thedas.

No one is dismissing canon. You're crazy.

If anyone here is pushing their own ideas like it's the holy gospel, it would be you.

I'm explaining the issue that while nobody knows what happened between the Dales and Orlais (and the Chantry) for certain, we do know that Orlais has invaded other nations in the past (from the Exalted Marches of Emperor Drakon I to the invasion of Nevarra after the Third Blight) and is making attempts in the present (with the disputed territory Nevarra has and Empress Celene I's attempts to control Ferelden through King Cailan). I don't see why this shouldn't be addressed.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Your utter  and compeltel faliure to realsie that the poitns you are brining up are utterly irrelevant and add NOTHING to any argument of yours.
The history of Orlais is interesting, but completely and utterly useless for the current debate.

It's not useless for a discussion on what happened to the Dales when it factors into their behavior with other nations, Lotion. It's something that should be considered, that's all.

[Reaverwind]

I'm leaning toward the Chantry with the revelation about Anders. Some might hold him up as a reason to overthrow the Circle system, but I see him as the poster boy for the Chantry's position.

[LobselVith8]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

No, the point is you've failed to demonstrate how Morrigan is a blood mage in the same vein as Jowan or Caldrius and not merely a mage who knows a particular magic involving blood like Finn. So far you expect everyone to buy into your epic fanwanking to explain why the templars are justified in going after Morrigan for blood magic when she never demonstrates the abilities we see with blood mages.

You are a moron. There's no going about it. After several pages you still utterly ignore everything I write. You dont' even bother reading oto trying to understand.

I don't ignore what you write, you simply twist facts to suit your vision of how the world of DA should be. You make claims that are debunked, and then get angry over it. I don't see why, though. I've asked questions about what may be possible, and when people addressed that they couldn't happen, I didn't throw a tantrum over it. I don't see why you should, either.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

You're fixated on Morrigan not being a blood mage mechanicly, when that is no important.
You're fixated on noboy witnesing hte DR, when that's not important.

It's important because the templars placed a bounty on her for being a blood mage, Lotion.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

That she knows one old ritual that predates the Circle of Magi and clearly doesn't exhibit any abilities that could be viewed as blood magic (no using blood instead of mana, no blood ritual to use Isolde's life essence to bring forth the mage into the Fade, none of that).

1) where does it say it predates the Circle?
2) where are the specifics of the ritual mentioned? We havn't actually seen the ritual.
3) it can be views as blood magic, Morrigan sez so herself.

1) Morrigan states this
2) It's carnal contact
3) So can Finn's ritual to find the Eluvian, so are you saying he's a blood mage, too?

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

And if the Chantry labelled Wynne an abomination, would that also be accurate? Considering that the devs have stated such a label would be incorrect.

Useless argument. Hypothetical what-if's that don't exist.
The Chantry DOESN'T label Wynne as abomination. If that was THEIR definition of abomination, they would.
You are arguing definitions instead of action.

What you or Morrigna choose to call it is irrelevant. The police won't debate the definition of theft with you, they're going to arrest you based on their definition.

Despite the merits of what the dark ritual is, it doesn't make her any more a blood mage than Finn is for using Dalish blood to find the Eluvian. There's nothing to suggest that Morrigan is a blood mage, there's no evidence to support such a claim, Lotion. She doesn't provide a means to do the blood magic ritual with Isolde, she never uses blood as mana (not even in the deleted scene where the Warden gives her up to the templars as an apostate), and she doesn't even use blood magic to save her life at the end of Witch Hunt if she's stabbed. You're jumping through hoops trying to rationalize the templars placing a bounty on her for being a blood mage when there's no evidence to support this claim.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

I swear, debating with you is torture..reading your posts is like dousing your brain in acid!

Get it into your think skull - the DR is not any proof for the templars or Chantry (I doubt they would know) - nor have Iever said so!
It's proof ot US that Morrigan knows magics that the Chantry would label as blood magic (by her own adimission). If she knows, it's not hard to imagine she knows more.

So does Finn, and he seems pretty pro-Chantry and pro-Circle from all appearances.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

In other words, Morrigan is suspiscous based on her own words, personality and behavior. Her being a blood mage would not surprise anyone.

Given that she performs other magic that isn't sanctioned by the Chantry, but never uses blood instead of mana, I don't see why I should give the templars the benefit of the doubt here, especially when it wouldn't be the first time they've gone after someone for the wrong reasons.

[LobselVith8]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

I don't see the reason to make baseless claims to support a view, that's all.

And what do you call what you're doing?

I've used codex entries to support my position, Lotion. History of the Circle, History of the Chantry Part Four, and even the heresay mentioned on the Abomination codex to support my stand about the mages and the Chantry controlled Circles. There's also no evidence to support the claims about Morrigan being a blood mage, so why should I give the templars the benefit of the doubt when they also killed D'Sims because they heard he was "healing people" when he was merely a charlatan and the scenes with Aneirin the Healer and Wynne strongly imply that he was not a maleficar when the templars tried to kill him at fourteen?

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Understand, nobody is saying that Morrigan IS a blood mage. We're saying that she very well MIGHT be one, and she did things that cuased the templars to go after here. Perfectly plausible.

Again, why should I give them the benefit of the doubt when there's no evidence to support this in Origins and Witch Hunt?

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

It's not an issue of speculation, it's a matter of Morrigan never performing such magic, so why should I give the templars the benefit of the doubt on this issue when there are other cases that indicate that it wouldn't be the first time the templars have gone after someone based on heresay and suspicion alone?

Why should we give Morrigan the benefit of the doubt, we we clearly see she is immoral, power-houngry and admits herself she knows magics the Chantry fobids?

You're a massive hypocrite.

She's pragmatic and recommends courses of action that enpower the Warden against the Blight, not herself. The Anvil and the blood magicl ritual Caladrius recommends strength the Warden, not her. She suggests focusing on the Blight and getting the treaties over helping a teenager get laid and solving a dispute with the local merchant. As for her abilities, she never hides that she can perform magic that isn't sanctioned by the Chantry, so there's no reason she would hide having blood magic abilities when she doesn't hide her other non-sanctioned abilities.

Again, you've made an accusation that has no merit.

[SpeakingInSilence]

 A quote from Wikipedia on Maleficar, "A maleficar is a mage who uses the forbidden arts, including—but not solely restricted to—blood magic. A known maleficar is slain on sight by templars.An apostate is not automatically a maleficar, but many are. Bucking the authority of the Circle of Magi usually leads a mage into exploring the forbidden, especially if they feel they need such power to stay alive. This is common enough that many templars will simply assume that all apostates are also maleficar, or close enough to becoming one that it makes no difference."

If you read the part in the red you'll see that it seems to be a pretty common occurance that most apostates are maleficar.

[LobselVith8]

SpeakingInSilence wrote...

 A quote from Wikipedia on Maleficar, "A maleficar is a mage who uses the forbidden arts, including—but not solely restricted to—blood magic. A known maleficar is slain on sight by templars.An apostate is not automatically a maleficar, but many are. Bucking the authority of the Circle of Magi usually leads a mage into exploring the forbidden, especially if they feel they need such power to stay alive. This is common enough that many templars will simply assume that all apostates are also maleficar, or close enough to becoming one that it makes no difference."

If you read the part in the red you'll see that it seems to be a pretty common occurance that most apostates are maleficar.

According to the Chantry, who control mages across Thedas. I also don't see that as conclusive proof that Morrigan is a blood mage when she never performs the same abilities we've seen with Jowan or Caladrius, despite openly using other magic that isn't sanctioned by the Circle.

KenKenpachi wrote...

So depends I see mages as weapons first people later. Useful but like all weapons you need some ability to control and to use.

That seems to be the same position taken by the Chantry.

lady_v23 wrote...

I actually do like the chantry. yes they may be ignorant and rude and..well you get the point..but they do the necessary evil, and that evil is locking up the mages, and people don't like that. If the mages where to be set free there would be a LOT of problems.

There's no evidence it's a necessary evil, and we have the nation of Rivain, the Dalish clans, and the Chasind tribes who have mages living without Chantry or templar oversight.

[LobselVith8]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Angry masses generated by the Chantry's hate-filled anti-mage propoganda!

I don't see that institutionalized propaganda.
Nowhere in the game do I find any proof to support your claims.

That isn't accurate. We have Knight-Commander Greagoir's comments about mages being cursed with magic, Keli's comments to the mage protagonist in the Magi Origin, and Lily's comments about initiate's being warned about the dangers "those cursed with magic pose." Not to mention what the Reverand Mother of the Redcliffe Chantry says to a human mage. We can also see the differences between how mages are treated in Andrastian societies with those living in mage tolerant, non-Andrastian societies.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Yes you do. You have to, because oy udemand the same from me.

You claim - we seen no proof of templar overight - therefore no templar overight exist.
I coutner - we seen no proof of X (in the exmaple abominations in Rivain) - therefore X doesn't exist.

Apples and Oranges.  In the case of Rivain, not only do we not see any evidence for abominatikons in Rivain, but we also fail to see the impact that said abominations should have had in such a society.  The same applies to the Dalish, Chansind, and many others.  In short, we can determine how common or rare (or in this case virtually nonexistance) a phenomena is by the impact on those systems we do see.  Such things are done all the time in science.  For example, it is physically impossible to detect a quark, but we can using meson steam analysis, get very good data on how quarks actually behave in physics.

Loads and loads of BS.

I already debunked your "social footprint" theory. I ask for proof, you've got none.

So no, not apples and oranges.
You can determine nothing. You know nothing. Plenty of epopel on these ofrusm proved that much.

But lack of any evidence can hardly stop your crusade....

Actually, you didn't debunk the social footprint theory, you argued that Ian couldn't disagree with you because the story is "morally grey." Ian also provided codex entries and used Gaider quotes to provide why he takes the stand that he does, so I don't see why you claim he has never provided proof for his views.

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Curlain wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Another thing that has occured to me.

Village of Hannoleth. Kitty.
She can posses Amalia wihout her consent.

Isn't that proof of forced possesion?

Not entirely true, if you slove the puzzle but lied about really freeing Kitty Amalia says something along the lines of, 'you're scaring me, I'm not going to let you in anymore' which suggests some form of consent was needed

She also says that if you let Kitty possess her IIRC.

But if she gave consent in the first place, how is it proof of forced possession?

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Interesting tidbit for DA Legends info:

13 years have passed since a group of warriors led by the Templar Ravi
banded together to prevent an abomination from destroying the Free
Marcher city of Kaiten in a hedonistic orgy of narcissism and opulence.

So much about abominations not being really that dangerous, no more dangerouns than a single berserker and not being able to destroy anythig more than a small  undefended village.

I suppose Ian's comments about knights and beserkers having killed towns and villages of people is not going to be addressed?

[EmperorSahlertz]

LobselVith8 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Humans ARE the master of Thedas though. They are by far the greatest current power in Thedas. In a few generations, the Masters of Thedas may be the Qunari though.

That would be like a writer stating that Caucasians are the masters of the United States... so I don't see how you can claim it's not biased.

Not it wouldn't. It would be like a writer claiming humans are the masters of North America, which they are. There are no other species capable of contesting our claim. That is not bias. That is fact. THe same counts for Thedas. No other species is capable of contesting the humans' claim to Thedas. Yet.

LobselVith8 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Many of the Chantry Scholars, Genitivi in particular, are not half as biased as that particular Dalish entry. The Chantry scholars at least speculate on the true events, even going as far as to admiting that the Chantry probably spread false rumors about the Dalish. I am not saying the Dalish entry should be disregarded completely, but to use it as proof is foolish. It would be the equivalent of using some old Nordic saga as proof of some event. The Dalish entry simply not detailed enough, nor objective enough, to get any sort of accurate historical record out of it.

The History of the Circle is particularly biased in its favor of the Chantry and the templars, treating mages as little more than children. The Chantry version of the codex Sister Petrine claims that the Dalish were sacrificing humans and attacked a defenseless village of Red Crossing, placing all the blame on the Dalish. Considering how many nations Orlais has taken over, there's reason to suspect that this isn't an accurate depiction of events. Even outside of the codex entries, we have Keli, a devout Andrastian who thinks that mages are cursed for having magical ability. Knight-Commander Greagoir even refers to magic as a curse in the opening of the Magi Origin. We have Lily, an Initiate, who talks about how the Initiates are taught about the dangers those "cursed with magic pose."

The Dales codex is also written from the POV of the Dalish for a Dalish Warden, and addresses the history as seen through their eyes:

"You will hear tales of the woman Andraste. The shemlen name her prophet, bride of their Maker. But we knew her as a war leader, one who, like us, had been a slave and dreamed of liberation. We joined her rebellion against the Imperium, and our heroes died beside her, unmourned, in Tevinter bonfires.

But we stayed with our so-called allies until the war ended. Our reward: A land in southern Orlais called the Dales. So we began the Long Walk to our new home.

Halamshiral, "the end of the journey," was our capital, built out of the reach of the humans. We could once again forget the incessant passage of time. Our people began the slow process of recovering the culture and traditions we had lost to slavery.

But it was not to last. The Chantry first sent missionaries into the Dales, and then, when those were thrown out, templars. We were driven from Halamshiral, scattered. Some took refuge in the cities of the shemlen, living in squalor, tolerated only a little better than vermin.

We took a different path. We took to the wilderness, never stopping long enough to draw the notice of our shemlen neighbors. In our self-imposed exile, we kept what remained of elven knowledge and culture alive."

Dalish Warden Codex: The Dales: "The End of the Long Walk," as told by Gisharel, the Keeper of the Ralaferin clan of the Dalish elves

What the hell are you talking about? The entry: 'History of the Circle' is full of understanding of the mages' situation and even states that their "revolt" is fully understandable. No where does that entry depict the mages as being childish. And Sister Petrine does NOT say that the Dalish practiced human sacrifice. She says there were rumors spreding around about it. Which is 100% true. Actually in the beginning of that entry she sounds rather sympathetic with the Dalish, reminding people about it was the Elves who formed the Vanguard of Andraste.
The only thing she claims that we cant be sure of, is that the Dalish started the war.

[LobselVith8]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Humans ARE the master of Thedas though. They are by far the greatest current power in Thedas. In a few generations, the Masters of Thedas may be the Qunari though.

That would be like a writer stating that Caucasians are the masters of the United States... so I don't see how you can claim it's not biased.

Not it wouldn't. It would be like a writer claiming humans are the masters of North America, which they are. There are no other species capable of contesting our claim. That is not bias. That is fact. THe same counts for Thedas. No other species is capable of contesting the humans' claim to Thedas. Yet.

That's not correct, because there are no humanoid counterparts to humans living in our world. DA does have counterparts with the elves, the dwarves, and the other races of people living in Thedas, so the comparison I made is accurate.

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

What the hell are you talking about? The entry: 'History of the Circle' is full of understanding of the mages' situation and even states that their "revolt" is fully understandable. No where does that entry depict the mages as being childish. And Sister Petrine does NOT say that the Dalish practiced human sacrifice. She says there were rumors spreding around about it. Which is 100% true. Actually in the beginning of that entry she sounds rather sympathetic with the Dalish, reminding people about it was the Elves who formed the Vanguard of Andraste.
The only thing she claims that we cant be sure of, is that the Dalish started the war.

I respectfully disagree. The History of the Circle renders mages as little more than children who rebel against their restrictions, and then has them heading off in idyllic fashion into prison. Sister Petrine also leaves out the territorial disputes which are referenced  in the Ages timeline - placing all the blame on the Dalish for the war.

[Last Vizard]

KenKenpachi wrote...

As much as I like the Idea of Darth Vader running lose and killing me with the power of his mind for being as clumsy as I am stupid I'll go with the Chantry most likely. I played as a Warrior and a Mage and honestly the power I had as a mage was corrupting often I would laugh to my self and spam AOE magics and laugh as the fools died and burned around me. Its kinda like selling tanks on the street corner oh yes several of us would love it, more so if we could fuse all that power to ourselves. But can we any of us say we would not be corrupted by it?

Heck if I could cast lightning from my finger tips I'ld be shocking people with it for any reasson and cackeling like Emp. Palp's Maybe shout POWER UNLIMITED POWER! At least I'm being honest here. Its like any great power, who doesn't have it wants it. Not that I overly care for the Chantry but if we must have human tanks that can lay waste to whole armies with such small numbers I'ld want some kill switch. Now I may side with the Mages if the Chantry is doing a greater evil to them, for instance a Lesh for all mages type deal Sten so liked to talk about with my mage..

So depends I see mages as weapons first people later. Useful but like all weapons you need some ability to control and to use. Course it ammounts to imprisonment to some extent, but I don't see flamethrowers for sale when I go into Home Depot, or Anti-Tank rifles at the gun show. Which is basically what mages are. Course I am WHOLLY against them being made tranquil.

Interestingly enough, there is a book called "The Search for the True Prophet", which is a gift for Wynne, that mentions the possibility that Andraste wasn't, in fact, the Maker's Chosen, but rather "just" an extraordinarily powerful mage. This would explain Andraste's insight on the dangers of magic, whereas most humans, unable or unwilling to separate good magic from evil, fear it all. The text of the book mentions that it has been saved from a fire at some point in time, suggesting that there has been fierce opposition to any depiction of Andraste that runs counter to official Chantry doctrine. This is also a possible explanation for the healing powers of her ashes.

Not everyone is corrupted by power "Heck if I could cast lightning from my finger tips I'ld be shocking people with it for any reasson and cackeling like Emp. Palp's Maybe shout POWER UNLIMITED POWER! At least I'm being honest here." LOL righto mate, any repressed feelings? it all comes down to how much value you put on human life.... Yes the Chantry is protecting weak minded mages from themselves but they aren't doing it for a higher purpose, they are trying to control the power of the people, the lower classes by taking away those that can change the world and putting them in a tower where they can't affect the power system.

The Chantry is just a business, they want more influence and power and are not solely trying to help people, they say the Maker has turned away from us.  A whole lot of praying isn't going to bring us back in favour with the Maker and definately not locking up mages (Adraste was one), this is the same issue as with the X-Men I'd side with the future of our race, the blood phylactery is a good idea though and should be carried on by the Mages when they govern themselves.

P.S.  no i wouldn't be corrupted by power, I'd use it to help others and one day (i'm going to live forever due to magic) achieve the level of a God in the prime and fix the world while the Maker sits and faces a tainted wall in the ****e . Logain was an idiot and a traitor.

[DKJaigen]

lady_v23 wrote...

I actually do like the chantry. yes they may be ignorant and rude and..well you get the point..but they do the necessary evil, and that evil is locking up the mages, and people don't like that. If the mages where to be set free there would be a LOT of problems. ill just mention some since im way to lazy:

1-a lot more of demons possession.
2-there would be a whole lot more of abominations running around
3-where would they learn magic? from other mages? what if those mages used blood magic?

I know that they are good strong mages that can control there powers, but what guarantees that the mage wont get involve in crimes to get some coins or abuse his/hers powers or get tempted by a strong demon? better be save than sorry. Hate them or loath them the chantry does the necessary evil.

ok..!! im done with the rant!! ^^ you'll be surprise what boredom makes you do

most people are against the chantry and its templars and not against the circle of magi. so these 3 problems will remain constant with or without templars.

[DKJaigen]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Interesting tidbit for DA Legends info:

13 years have passed since a group of warriors led by the Templar Ravi
banded together to prevent an abomination from destroying the Free
Marcher city of Kaiten in a hedonistic orgy of narcissism and opulence.

So much about abominations not being really that dangerous, no more dangerouns than a single berserker and not being able to destroy anythig more than a small  undefended village.

you do realise that a normal person was possessed and not a mage right? also while its true a berserker may not kill of a whole city a suave and manipulative normal  human can cause the same effects as the abomination.

[EmperorSahlertz]

DKJaigen wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Interesting tidbit for DA Legends info:

13 years have passed since a group of warriors led by the Templar Ravi
banded together to prevent an abomination from destroying the Free
Marcher city of Kaiten in a hedonistic orgy of narcissism and opulence.

So much about abominations not being really that dangerous, no more dangerouns than a single berserker and not being able to destroy anythig more than a small  undefended village.

you do realise that a normal person was possessed and not a mage right? also while its true a berserker may not kill of a whole city a suave and manipulative normal  human can cause the same effects as the abomination.

If its an Abomination, it is a mage which have been possessed. And even if it was just a normal person who got possessed, it only reinforces Lotion's posistion, as an Abomination is much more dangerous than a "simply" possessed man. And no matter how charismatic a human is, he would never be able to make an entire city destroy itself, in the same way.

Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 17 février 2011 - 02:49 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

Last Vizard wrote...
P.S.  no i wouldn't be corrupted by power, I'd use it to help others and one day (i'm going to live forever due to magic) achieve the level of a God in the prime and fix the world while the Maker sits and faces a tainted wall in the ****e . Logain was an idiot and a traitor.

Yeah... Striving for immortality and godhood does not sound selfish and corrupted at all....