I'm in a graduate-level course on General Relativity. My professor wants us to write a 10-page paper, scientific topic (within the realm of special/general relativity) up to us, later this semester. I am seriously considering discussing the scientific aspects of the Mass Effect series, dissecting/critiquing the uses of things like quantum entanglement and FTL/ultrarelativistic-velocity travel within the game and the implications/ramifications they have on modern physics and vice versa. Just trying to get an idea as to whether this seems like a good idea or not, considering this project is going to be worth a major part of my grade, so I'm all ears for anyone who has an opinion on this.
P.S. Bioware, I can honestly say I never expected a video game to possibly contribute to my studies, so you guys are awesome!
So I'm writing an essay based on the science of Mass Effect...
Débuté par
SomeKindaEnigma
, févr. 01 2011 08:07
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#2
Posté 01 février 2011 - 08:08
Phaedon
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Okay, do mention the fact that the theory of special relativity supports the modification of the mass of an object.
Modifié par Phaedon, 01 février 2011 - 08:08 .
#3
Posté 01 février 2011 - 08:20
ZachForrest
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They want you to demonstrate your understanding of relatvitity and your ability to analyse information from scientific sources. Namely journals. Not a video game.
Of course you can speculate on what the future might hold, within reason.
#4
Posté 01 février 2011 - 08:28
SomeKindaEnigma
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ZachForrest wrote...
They want you to demonstrate your understanding of relatvitity and your ability to analyse information from scientific sources. Namely journals. Not a video game.
Of course you can speculate on what the future might hold, within reason.
I'm not new to this writing-paper thing, I'm aware of that. I already have a list of journals/essays/books that I plan on using to cite/analyze, I was merely thinking of using the video game to critique where applicable
#5
Posté 01 février 2011 - 09:15
Archereon
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(I'm not a physics major, and am a bit foggy on theoretical physics, so correct me if I'm wrong here.)
the titular Mass Effect of ME has virtually no actual scientific thought put into it. The titular "Mass Effect" either violates the conservation of mass or the conservation of momentum, both of which have severe consequences that we're yet to see in the games. The FTL it works on, "negative mass" FTL, also has several significant problems. When an object has negative mass, the effect of all forces acting on it would be reversed, up to and including the strong nuclear force and electromagnetic force holding atoms and molecules (respectively) together. Negative mass FTL also implies negative time passage, time travel, which has yet to appear in mass effect. Finally, positive and negative in terms of electric current refer to the direction of flow; electrons are flowing through it either way. I fail to see how that could possibly stimulate the element zero to change the masses of objects around it.
I do hope you reconsider this project.
the titular Mass Effect of ME has virtually no actual scientific thought put into it. The titular "Mass Effect" either violates the conservation of mass or the conservation of momentum, both of which have severe consequences that we're yet to see in the games. The FTL it works on, "negative mass" FTL, also has several significant problems. When an object has negative mass, the effect of all forces acting on it would be reversed, up to and including the strong nuclear force and electromagnetic force holding atoms and molecules (respectively) together. Negative mass FTL also implies negative time passage, time travel, which has yet to appear in mass effect. Finally, positive and negative in terms of electric current refer to the direction of flow; electrons are flowing through it either way. I fail to see how that could possibly stimulate the element zero to change the masses of objects around it.
I do hope you reconsider this project.
#6
Posté 01 février 2011 - 09:32
Phaedon
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I don't think so. Change the energy of a system and it's mass will change too. . As long as the enviroment absorbs the energy, then I don't see the problem with that. The system is not isolated.Archereon wrote...
(I'm not a physics major, and am a bit foggy on theoretical physics, so correct me if I'm wrong here.)
the titular Mass Effect of ME has virtually no actual scientific thought put into it. The titular "Mass Effect" either violates the conservation of mass or the conservation of momentum, both of which have severe consequences that we're yet to see in the games.
Negative mass is often used in modern hypothesis. In fact, the exotic matter that would be used to maintain an Einstein-Rosenberg bridge would have negative mass I believe.The FTL it works on, "negative mass" FTL, also has several significant problems. When an object has negative mass, the effect of all forces acting on it would be reversed, up to and including the strong nuclear force and electromagnetic force holding atoms and molecules (respectively) together. Negative mass FTL also implies negative time passage, time travel, which has yet to appear in mass effect. Finally, positive and negative in terms of electric current refer to the direction of flow; electrons are flowing through it either way. I fail to see how that could possibly stimulate the element zero to change the masses of objects around it.
I do hope you reconsider this project.
Modifié par Phaedon, 01 février 2011 - 09:41 .
#7
Posté 01 février 2011 - 09:36
ZachForrest
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SomeKindaEnigma wrote...
ZachForrest wrote...
They want you to demonstrate your understanding of relatvitity and your ability to analyse information from scientific sources. Namely journals. Not a video game.
Of course you can speculate on what the future might hold, within reason.
I'm not new to this writing-paper thing, I'm aware of that. I already have a list of journals/essays/books that I plan on using to cite/analyze, I was merely thinking of using the video game to critique where applicable
soz about that.
It's a bit risky innit tho?
#8
Posté 01 février 2011 - 09:45
Archereon
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Phaedon wrote...
I don't think so. Change the energy of a system and it's mass will change too. . As long as the enviroment absorbs the energy, then I don't see the problem with that. The system is not isolated.Archereon wrote...
(I'm not a physics major, and am a bit foggy on theoretical physics, so correct me if I'm wrong here.)
the titular Mass Effect of ME has virtually no actual scientific thought put into it. The titular "Mass Effect" either violates the conservation of mass or the conservation of momentum, both of which have severe consequences that we're yet to see in the games.
Negative mass is often used in modern hypothesis. In fact, the exotic matter that would be used to maintain an Einstein-Rosenberg bridge would have negative mass I believe.The FTL it works on, "negative mass" FTL, also has several significant problems. When an object has negative mass, the effect of all forces acting on it would be reversed, up to and including the strong nuclear force and electromagnetic force holding atoms and molecules (respectively) together. Negative mass FTL also implies negative time passage, time travel, which has yet to appear in mass effect. Finally, positive and negative in terms of electric current refer to the direction of flow; electrons are flowing through it either way. I fail to see how that could possibly stimulate the element zero to change the masses of objects around it.
I do hope you reconsider this project.
First one: Ah, thank you for correcting me on that.
Second one: I wasn't talking about the impossibility of negative mass, just the problems associated with using it for FTL. If you make your entire ship have negative mass, all of its atoms will break apart into free quarks for one.
#9
Posté 01 février 2011 - 09:58
Phaedon
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The second one isn't really explained in-codex though.
#10
Posté 01 février 2011 - 10:00
Archereon
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Phaedon wrote...
The second one isn't really explained in-codex though.
They did state (indirectly I believe), that Mass Effect FTL relies on negative mass, and didn't handwave the reversed force and time travel issues away.
#11
Guest_Aotearas_*
Posté 01 février 2011 - 10:17
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You could for example take Mass Effect's FTL travel as your essay's hypothesis and work out how the theory of general relativity would alter the presentation/act of said instance.
A nice begin to start thinking on would be for example this old thread meforums.bioware.com/viewtopic.html in which I tried to answer a cutscene question. You could firstly check if my calculations are correct and then go on about what physical hindrances there would be.
Depending on your expertise, this could actually become a very interesting work and if you wouldn't mind, I'd be glad if you could post your work in here if it really turns out to be based on Mass Effect. If you read the aforementioned topic I linked to, it should be clear I like that sort of hypothetical thinking.
A nice begin to start thinking on would be for example this old thread meforums.bioware.com/viewtopic.html in which I tried to answer a cutscene question. You could firstly check if my calculations are correct and then go on about what physical hindrances there would be.
Depending on your expertise, this could actually become a very interesting work and if you wouldn't mind, I'd be glad if you could post your work in here if it really turns out to be based on Mass Effect. If you read the aforementioned topic I linked to, it should be clear I like that sort of hypothetical thinking.
#12
Posté 01 février 2011 - 10:27
Da_Lion_Man
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Too risky, and also a bit... weird.
Don't forget this is a game... I wouldn't expect everything what the game says to be 100 % true. You can't risk it, the stakes are too high.
Don't forget this is a game... I wouldn't expect everything what the game says to be 100 % true. You can't risk it, the stakes are too high.
Modifié par Da_Lion_Man, 01 février 2011 - 10:29 .
#13
Posté 01 février 2011 - 10:33
Phaedon
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The OP tries to compare ME's tech with RL science. It doesn't have to be 100% true to do that.Da_Lion_Man wrote...
Too risky, and also a bit... weird.
Don't forget this is a game... I wouldn't expect everything what the game says to be 100 % true. You can't risk it, the stakes are too high.
And no, I don't think that FTL has anything to do with negative mass.
#14
Guest_Aotearas_*
Posté 01 février 2011 - 10:36
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Da_Lion_Man wrote...
Too risky, and also a bit... weird.
Naw, everything below Master is just writing down something everyone of this subject knows and then scrap together enough citations to make it look like you worked scientifically. Hence he can do everything if his essay is logically build, his argumentations are solid, the original question sensible enough for the professor/course and his citations and formalia correct.
There is no real science to be made at this level, just scientific method. And it sure is healthy and completely adequate, if only an adequate revenge on said situation, to properly disguise something completely unscientific, like a video game with proper methods and make it look good enough so that the professor can't do anything about it.
And to boot, creative minds are always those with that kind of ideas. Now if those ideas are properly set up, one can actually impress the respective people in a very positive way. Proper science is something for Master and beyond.
Just another graduate talking here (Bachelor of Arts - Asian Studies though, no Bachelor of science).
Modifié par Neofelis Nebulosa, 01 février 2011 - 10:37 .
#15
Posté 01 février 2011 - 10:44
Scimal
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I'd say go for it... With the strong emphasis on the fact that the authors of the ME universe probably put in enough Science to entertain the brainier crowd, "Wow!" the mainstream crowd, and didn't thoroughly work out everything for the "Graduate Student" crowd.
If you hit a wall, or just end up saying everything is junk in a fictional video game, it seems obvious.
Then again, if the Prof doesn't care, then might as well go for it.
If you hit a wall, or just end up saying everything is junk in a fictional video game, it seems obvious.
Then again, if the Prof doesn't care, then might as well go for it.
#16
Posté 01 février 2011 - 10:56
Capeo
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I don't know what you'd write about. The idea of mass effects fields doesn't correspond to anything at all. Positive and negative current have no meaning outside the circuit you're creating. It makes no difference to the actual conductor in question. We can make semi-conductors that are resistant to electron flow in a particular direction, but again positive and negative can be switched at any time. While reducing the mass of an object does mean it would, obviously, make it require less energy to accelerate that object, that in no way means it can break the light barrier. It also ignores the fact that doing so would effectively annihilate any object with mass into a soup of elementary particles. Not to mention all this FTL travel and mass effect relaying ignores the massive time dilation every ship would be experiencing.
#17
Guest_Aotearas_*
Posté 01 février 2011 - 11:02
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Capeo wrote...
I don't know what you'd write about. The idea of mass effects fields doesn't correspond to anything at all. Positive and negative current have no meaning outside the circuit you're creating. It makes no difference to the actual conductor in question. We can make semi-conductors that are resistant to electron flow in a particular direction, but again positive and negative can be switched at any time. While reducing the mass of an object does mean it would, obviously, make it require less energy to accelerate that object, that in no way means it can break the light barrier. It also ignores the fact that doing so would effectively annihilate any object with mass into a soup of elementary particles. Not to mention all this FTL travel and mass effect relaying ignores the massive time dilation every ship would be experiencing.
This would in fact be a very nice core-theme of his work. And depending on what exactly he knows about the topic, he could make founded guesses on how artificially lowering masses could affect relativity and its effects.
Just to emphasize, ten pages is nothing. A real scientific work would sneer at ten pages and throw them into the next dump. Ten pages are good for one thing only, elaborate guesses with correct formalia or pressing some wellknown facts into less big sentences.
I guess those pages do not include regularia like Theme paper, content and literatur listings, don't they. If not, I wouldn't even begin working the idea out if you had only seven pages worth space. Ten pages would just about seem fit for some wild guesses with scientific methods, seven pages is too little.
#18
Posté 01 février 2011 - 11:05
ZachForrest
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Ten pages is nothing?
check out Chem Comms. Great journal, short pieces. Size has no bearing on quality.
check out Chem Comms. Great journal, short pieces. Size has no bearing on quality.
#19
Guest_Aotearas_*
Posté 01 février 2011 - 11:13
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ZachForrest wrote...
Ten pages is nothing?
check out Chem Comms. Great journal, short pieces. Size has no bearing on quality.
Depending how farfetching the topic is, ten pages can be enough. But most topics can not be adequately pressed into such confined space.
I recently had to write a thirteen page essay on Japans High Growth Phase and its Environmental Problems. That is a timeperiod of roughly fourteen years to be covered and this only superficially due to the requirements. Aka stating "This was there, then this happened and that's what they got from!" ...
I had to sqeezeabout sixty pages of books into ten pages (thirteen pages minus 1 page for Theme, minus 1 page for Content listing, minus 1 page for literatur and citations). That is an awful little space for such a short periode the essay was on about. Surely I am no expert at writing such and can certainly improve a great deal, but don't expect me or other people of about the same academic level to be able to write as such. The least you have to be able to write on for proper, well-thought works that aren't about compressing superficial topics is fifteen pages, and then only on focussed topics.
#20
Posté 01 février 2011 - 11:18
PiEman
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They got everything 100% right.
The end.
The end.
#21
Posté 01 février 2011 - 11:31
ME_Fan
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Video games + coursework/essay = recipe for disaster. Mass effect is sci fi, leave it out for your own good. Science fiction is nice to ponder on but has no place in real science, no evidence or proof, etc.
#22
Posté 01 février 2011 - 11:40
Whatever42
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I just read an article posted on Slashdot raving about physists who are getting too fantasical in their musings. If famous physists can go on and on about unprovable, untestable multiple universes, why not pretend that FTL communication through quantum entanglement is possible.
#23
Posté 01 février 2011 - 11:46
Walker White
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Speaking as an academic on the other side of the aisle:
Anything more than a footnote is a bad idea. If you want to talk about the theoretical aspects of a changing mass on space time curvature, that is fine. And then you can use a footnote to mention how this is used as a justification of FTL in fiction such as...
Using ME as the central thesis of your paper is a bad idea. Now you are really writing a sociology paper on either popular perception of science or the effects of this technology on society. And even if you were in a sociology class that warranted such an essay, you would never restrict yourself to a single source. You would survey multiple books, games, films.
Isolated quips that do not detract from the paper are fine. But never make them core to your argument.
I say this as someone who proudly has a research paper in a major ACM conference that includes the D&D player's handbook in my list of references.
Anything more than a footnote is a bad idea. If you want to talk about the theoretical aspects of a changing mass on space time curvature, that is fine. And then you can use a footnote to mention how this is used as a justification of FTL in fiction such as...
Using ME as the central thesis of your paper is a bad idea. Now you are really writing a sociology paper on either popular perception of science or the effects of this technology on society. And even if you were in a sociology class that warranted such an essay, you would never restrict yourself to a single source. You would survey multiple books, games, films.
Isolated quips that do not detract from the paper are fine. But never make them core to your argument.
I say this as someone who proudly has a research paper in a major ACM conference that includes the D&D player's handbook in my list of references.
#24
Posté 01 février 2011 - 11:47
Schneidend
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I think you should go for it. If you support your ideas with facts, can back those facts up with citations, and approach it with professionalism, anything goes in an expository or argumentative essay.
Your professor should applaud your creativity and only raise an issue if you end up stating something erroneous.
To some of the naysayers: reading comprehension is important.
Nowhere does the OP state that Mass Effect is directly involved in his
thesis or the statement thereof. He is not writing a 10-page paper about Mass Effect, but he intends to mention the game and its theories.
Your professor should applaud your creativity and only raise an issue if you end up stating something erroneous.
To some of the naysayers: reading comprehension is important.
Nowhere does the OP state that Mass Effect is directly involved in his
thesis or the statement thereof. He is not writing a 10-page paper about Mass Effect, but he intends to mention the game and its theories.
Modifié par Schneidend, 01 février 2011 - 11:50 .
#25
Posté 01 février 2011 - 11:58
Walker White
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Schneidend wrote...
Your professor should applaud your creativity and only raise an issue if you end up stating something erroneous.
We applaud creativity when it strengthens the argument. That's the problem. If Mass Effect does not further his argument, then it is needlessly making the paper longer. I am having a hard time seeing what Mass Effect would bring new to the table. It would be an example or illustration of the concept rather than a justification of it. And as an illustration, it is certainly less universal than say Star Trek or Star Wars. So why is it interesting?
