299 réponses à ce sujet

[Falls Edge]

Here's hoping that based on your personality new options become available, ala planescape.

[HolyAvenger]

Hmm sounds like its worth a try. I'm always a bit of a talker so this investigate option looks the go.

[David Gaider]

Upsettingshorts wrote...
I don't think you'll be able to "break" it in that way.

If you pick sarcastic 5 times, and diplomatic 3 times, and angry twice. You're still going to be flagged as generally sarcastic.  I'm guessing, though.

This is correct. It is possible to "switch" your dominant tone, but you'd need to be reasonably consistent in your tone selection. Also, the more times you switch the greater the "buffer"... as in the greater the amount that you'd need to come over the total of your former personality in order to switch it. That's to prevent the "accidental schizophrenic" situation if you happen to be straddling the border between two or more personalities.

My suggestion would be to pick the responses that make more sense for your character and let the game take care of the rest. There's no reason to reverse-engineer a particular tone, after all, as the effect is purely aesthetic as opposed to gameplay-oriented... but I suppose some people can't help metagaming. Not much we can do about that, I'm afraid.

Filament wrote...
I have to wonder how I diplomatically tell someone I'm going to cut them to pieces.

I just hope it's not like that "innocent idealist" in NWN, "I didn't want to do this, but--!" *squeakiest voice imaginable*

In battle, a diplomatic character is more concerned about being careful, keeping fellow party members intact and otherwise getting through the battle as efficiently as possible.

Modifié par David Gaider, 02 février 2011 - 03:41 .

[Maugrim]

David Gaider wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...
I don't think you'll be able to "break" it in that way.

If you pick sarcastic 5 times, and diplomatic 3 times, and angry twice. You're still going to be flagged as generally sarcastic.  I'm guessing, though.

This is correct. It is possible to "switch" your dominant tone, but you'd need to be reasonably consistent in your tone selection. Also, the more times you switch the greater the "buffer"... as in the greater the amount that you'd need to come over the total of your former personality in order to switch it. That's to prevent the "accidental schizophrenic" situation if you happen to be straddling the border between two or more personalities.

My suggestion would be to pick the responses that make more sense for your character and let the game take care of the rest. There's no reason to reverse-engineer a particular tone, after all, as the effect is purely aesthetic as opposed to gameplay-oriented... but I suppose some people can't help metagaming. Not much we can do about that, I'm afraid.

Neato.  I look forward to checking some of this out on the PC demo on 2/23

[silentassassin264]

David Gaider wrote...


In battle, a diplomatic character is more concerned about being careful, keeping fellow party members intact and otherwise getting through the battle as efficiently as possible.

Well how in the world are you sarcastic in battle?  "Pay no attention to my dagger between your ribs."?

[Maria Caliban]

David Gaider wrote...

Filament wrote...
I have to wonder how I diplomatically tell someone I'm going to cut them to pieces.

I just hope it's not like that "innocent idealist" in NWN, "I didn't want to do this, but--!" *squeakiest voice imaginable*

In battle, a diplomatic character is more concerned about being careful, keeping fellow party members intact and otherwise getting through the battle as efficiently as possible.

Are they sort of a 'professional' tone?

[David Gaider]

silentassassin264 wrote...
Well how in the world are you sarcastic in battle?  "Pay no attention to my dagger between your ribs."?

The tone is not "sarcastic" -- that's a word that gets tossed around here, but it's not one we use. We use Humorous or Charming, and in battle it would result in funny quips.

[Uhh.. Jonah]

The only thing I'm afraid of is the sarcasm getting over the top and annoying.

I think I'm going to play as a sarcastic Hawke, but we'll see how it goes...

[mr_luga]

I've said it before but I really am baffled by how Bioware look at people here, not thinking people in RL can change their tone depending on the situation.



I like to consider myself a nice guy(Diplomatic) but when **** hits the fan, I can get agressive, and dont plan on saying it in a "diplomatic" tone/soundset.



Being forced into one of these personalities is seriously going to bug me, how I behave in a battlefield in game, will differ from how I am in a city, talking to diplomats, I woudnt want my agressive tone from fighting outside, to carry over when I talk with people in the city so I end up sounding like a douche

[Madame Rose Crimsynn]

David Gaider wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...
Well how in the world are you sarcastic in battle?  "Pay no attention to my dagger between your ribs."?

The tone is not "sarcastic" -- that's a word that gets tossed around here, but it's not one we use. We use Humorous or Charming, and in battle it would result in funny quips.

More along the lines of, "Golly jeepers, where'd you those weepers"?

*Sees angry glares. Turns and walks away.*

[Bryy_Miller]

mr_luga wrote...

Being forced into one of these personalities is seriously going to bug me, how I behave in a battlefield in game, will differ from how I am in a city, talking to diplomats, I woudnt want my agressive tone from fighting outside, to carry over when I talk with people in the city so I end up sounding like a douche

You are not forced into a personality. Just like IRL, you can alter your personality for different events. You don't get pigeonholed into one set of dialogue just because you pick 'funny' for one conversation. It's gradual, not instant.

[Saibh]

David Gaider wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...
Well how in the world are you sarcastic in battle?  "Pay no attention to my dagger between your ribs."?

The tone is not "sarcastic" -- that's a word that gets tossed around here, but it's not one we use. We use Humorous or Charming, and in battle it would result in funny quips.

Oh. Huh. I thought you guys said it was the sarcastic icon? Or maybe it was a preview.

Well, that's nice to know. Hopefully no back ladders this time.

[lv12medic]

Saibh wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...
Well how in the world are you sarcastic in battle?  "Pay no attention to my dagger between your ribs."?

The tone is not "sarcastic" -- that's a word that gets tossed around here, but it's not one we use. We use Humorous or Charming, and in battle it would result in funny quips.

Oh. Huh. I thought you guys said it was the sarcastic icon? Or maybe it was a preview.

Well, that's nice to know. Hopefully no back ladders this time.

It was probably tagged "sarcastic" in one of the many magazine previews.  Maybe Game Informer?

[sepir]

I like the sound of this. Personally I prefer having an actual intent, rather than the sort of an intent why the hell did I say that or several vaguely similar lines.

[David Gaider]

Bryy_Miller wrote...
You are not forced into a personality. Just like IRL, you can alter your personality for different events. You don't get pigeonholed into one set of dialogue just because you pick 'funny' for one conversation. It's gradual, not instant.

Right. There are many instances throughout the game where you get to select the tone of your response-- it's as common as in DAO, if not more so. The only time a tone would be provided for you is when you select an action response... and even then, it's only if we think it will have impact.

It does alter your combat shouts, of course-- or, I should say, it provides new ones in addition to your "regular" shouts. The idea is that your tone is responding to the choices you're making in the regular game. The alternative, of course, would simply to have a single and unchanging soundset and to provide all action responses in dialogue in the neutral tone. That's what we did in DAO, after all, and it's really the only other option-- the idea that someone could dynamically pick their tone for every situation as well as combat would be pretty unworkable.

[Maria Caliban]

lv12medic wrote...

It was probably tagged "sarcastic" in one of the many magazine previews.  Maybe Game Informer?

Jennifer noted that it wouldn't be a BioWare game without the "snarky, sarcastic" humor right before they showed off the humor example. People might also be latching onto that.

[Dr. wonderful]

I was going to post till Sylvius came about.

...Seriously, he's a fun wrecker -_-"

EDIT:

@ Mr. Gaider: Right, so it'll be like My main expression will be funny Hawke:

Neil: *Seeing Bandits* Oh look, it's a party! Thanks the Maker I bought party flavors! *Roundhouse kick Flask into bandits*

Then I can switch it, when say, Hawke is mad.

Bandit: Hahahahhahah I will murder you sister.
(Angry)Neil: Where. are. you.

Is it like that?

Modifié par Dr. wonderful, 02 février 2011 - 04:47 .

[mr_luga]

David Gaider wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...
You are not forced into a personality. Just like IRL, you can alter your personality for different events. You don't get pigeonholed into one set of dialogue just because you pick 'funny' for one conversation. It's gradual, not instant.

Right. There are many instances throughout the game where you get to select the tone of your response-- it's as common as in DAO, if not more so. The only time a tone would be provided for you is when you select an action response... and even then, it's only if we think it will have impact.

It does alter your combat shouts, of course-- or, I should say, it provides new ones in addition to your "regular" shouts. The idea is that your tone is responding to the choices you're making in the regular game. The alternative, of course, would simply to have a single and unchanging soundset and to provide all action responses in dialogue in the neutral tone. That's what we did in DAO, after all, and it's really the only other option-- the idea that someone could dynamically pick their tone for every situation as well as combat would be pretty unworkable.

Well I woudnt want my agressive tone to be carried over in an action response if I talk to people I want to sound kind to, like a woman, or an important person, I would groan if I had a snarky tone talking to like, a king. That we made to have that I just dont like.

You guys(Bioware) have earned enough trust in me to without complete doom and gloom judgement on this until I acually get to play the game, but, I want it on the record I dont like it at all, and I suspect I still wont like it after acually playing it. Being out of control of how I communicate in RPG's is my biggest peeve, which is why I hate paraphrasing as well

[David Gaider]

mr_luga wrote...
Well I woudnt want my agressive tone to be carried over in an action response if I talk to people I want to sound kind to, like a woman, or an important person, I would groan if I had a snarky tone talking to like, a king. That we made to have that I just dont like.

Having an aggressive tone doesn't necessarily mean you would tell off the king, however.

In regular conversation with him, you'd have the personality hub as I described. You could speak to him however you wish. If an action hub came up, and one of the actions you selected have tone variants, that wouldn't default to telling him off unless that's what the intent of the paraphrase indicated-- aggressive tone doesn't mean "tell someone off no matter what the paraphrase indicates", it might result in simply being very blunt and direct. It wouldn't turn an "I agree" option into "you might have a point, you royal ****'.

I guess, in that, you'll have to trust that what we write is going to make sense. Or not, I suppose.

[upsettingshorts]

It won't override your decisions, mr_luga. It will color them in instances where you normally would have no choice at all.

Gaiderninja'd

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 02 février 2011 - 04:43 .

[The Gentle Ben]

David Gaider wrote...
"you might have a point, you royal ****'.

I highly approve of this dialogue and strongly endorse its inclusion in DA2.

Edit to actually say something: I've expressed before that I think the tone aspect of the dialogue system has considerable potential and would approve of its core concept being carried over into other aspects of game reactivity and PC-NPC interactions. One of my concerns, however, is that as a result of needing to "tag" the dialogue options, the writers might have felt compelled to write overly to tone as opposed to being primarily concerned with intent (thereby limiting it).

Modifié par The Gentle Ben, 02 février 2011 - 05:00 .

[Brockololly]

Still, the extent to which your dominant personality colors the action choices may be irksome. I think part of the problem may be in how the tones are defined in game- like David said, aggressive doesn't necessarily always mean "tell someone off no matter what the paraphrase indicates" it could mean just being blunt. It will come down to the quality of the writing to reconcile what Hawke is actually going to do between whats written in the paraphrase and the tone or what your dominant personality is.

Maybe I'd be ok with Hawke being blunt, but what if the game's take on aggressive in that instance is to have Hawke get up in someone's face? It'll be interesting to see how it works. I just want to be able to retain some nuance in how Hawke deals with different people and not feel like the dominant personality is hijacking Hawke.

Modifié par Brockololly, 02 février 2011 - 04:50 .

[HolyAvenger]

One of my fave lines of dialogue in DAO:



Cailan: So, why are you here?

CityElfFemale: I killed an Arl's son for raping my cousin

Cailan: Errr...





So, moar awesome dialogues!

[Sylvius the Mad]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I assume you are talking about the concepts the dialogue wheel attempts to convey, namely that of tone and the intent of the line as opposed to its literal content.

I suppose I can describe the alternative thusly:  By feeling it, based on experience and observation.  In the most basic and limited - and possibly ultimately inaccurate but it's the best I can do - sense, it's empiricism. 

If empiricism works, then I should be able to look at someone else's data - or even his conclusions.

If you think you know how to interpret the paraphrases, what method do you use?  Regardless of how long it took you to learn it, or how many data points you needed, or what means you used to discover it, you have it now.

What is it?  When given any paraphrase option, by what means do you determine the content of the resulting line?

[tmp7704]

David Gaider wrote...

aggressive tone doesn't mean "tell someone off no matter what the paraphrase indicates", it might result in simply being very blunt and direct. It wouldn't turn an "I agree" option into "you might have a point, you royal ****'.

"You're sort of a ruthless b-tch."